Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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StardustGenius
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by StardustGenius »

How's this for an unpopular opinion.

Rodan ain't a draw no more.

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by HedorahIsBestGirl »

StardustGenius wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 6:38 am How's this for an unpopular opinion.

Rodan ain't a draw no more.
Unfortunately, you're right. RIP :Rodan56:

It's really sad because even when I was a kid 15-20-ish years ago, I feel like Rodan was way more popular than he is today. Aside from Godzilla, he was definitely the most recognized Toho kaiju among my friends and schoolmates. Nowadays, it's all about Mothra and Mechagodzilla and "that one with three heads." I swear even Gigan is better known to the general public today.

While Rodan's grand debut scene in KOTM was my favorite part of the movie, I really wish Rodan would get a more Showa-esq portrayal (read: be able to hold his own against Godzilla) in some piece of Godzilla media. Might boost his star power again.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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Dyrakro wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 12:19 am
Spuro wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 1:21 pm
StardustGenius wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:27 am I dunno, I'd like to see Destoroyah and Biollante again. That's just me.
What I don’t understand is when people try to use arguments against bringing them back that point to the monsters being too closely connected to their backstories and thematic tie-ins, so you couldn’t bring them back without rehashing things.

Like, what? Have you guys even seen what they’ve being doing with Godzilla lately? GMK, the Monsterverse, Shin, and Singular Point are all far removed from the 1954 story of a monster being awoken and mutated by the atomic bomb. They stand for new problems facing the world now, if they even stand for anything at all. SP’s Godzilla is just an interdimensional monster, and MV’s Godzilla is an ancient guardian of Earth… not much thematic content there.

If Godzilla’s backstory, thematic and narrative history can change to suit the story, then why the hell can’t Destoroyah’s, or Biollante’s, or any other monster? They don’t HAVE to be tied to their original origin.
It's not that they need exactly the same origin story they had back in their original movie. It's just that we (or at least me) don't want to have a more made up origin story or them simply appearing because ... reasons & the name will sell.
I love the Ultra series, but the so many of the new episodes are very forgettable just because of them simply reusing a kaiju of the past seasons and make it appear out of nowhere or with a rather dull backstory.
in the end most kaijus are very similar once they are on screen, walking through a city and destroying buildings. Sure, KG or Megaguirus stand out more because they ain't simple bipedal monsters... but still, where is the difference between Gigan, Megalon, Spacegodzilla and King Gidorah? It's their reputation and backstory. Aside of that you could easily swap them.
I mean Spacegodzilla caught a child and died by the hands of the other titular character (though he needed some help). Guess what, so did King Gidorah in Mothra III. With the difference that Spacegodzilla got a whole different backstory than KG.

And yes, of course Godzilla benefits of having not this many kaijus as of now and with all of them looking very different as of now. This makes it way easier to remember which of them appeared in which movie. But I don't want to remember a kaiju just because of its looks. Preferably they should have an interesting backstory connected to them that gives them their actual character. Kaijus are usually just bad or good anyway so might as well just tell us, why they are the way they are.
As far as Spacegodzilla is concerned,

1. Kidnapping the titular characters trope was done by Spacegodzilla first before King Ghidorah in ROM. As such, you technically should be praising Spacegodzilla for originality in the series while criticizing Ghidorah being used with copying previous storytelling.

2. Spacegodzilla deserves props for being the first kaiju with world conquest motivations in the Godzilla series. While world conquest is a cliche villain motivation in fiction and we had alien races in the series, Spacegodzilla was the first movie were it's the kaiju itself that wants to take over the earth. That deserves points for originality for a kaiju in the toho pantheon. KOTM Ghidorah is technically a rip off of Spacegodzilla.
GVK: TNE is a modern day 70s Showa Godzilla movie. Being a massive budget modern blockbuster CGI film instead of traditional 70s tokusatsu techniques doesn't change that. Fight me.

Anguirus and Godzilla being friends in the Showa series is cannon. Deal with it.

Monsterverse is not similar to either MCU nor Bayformers just because all three are big budget CGI blockbuster franchises.

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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What would be really freaky is if they had explored Spacegodzilla's "evil alien that wants to take over the world mindset", and actually have him speak (through someone, or themselves telepathically). Wouldn't be all that different than the Legion or Zigra from Gamera. Happens in Ultra all the time. The Showa movies had unused scripts that were going in this direction.

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by miguelnuva »

If the MV for example couldn't do Biollante's stroy then that's bad writing on their part. They have movies about an hour longer than Toho give or take and the luxury of a cinematic cinematic universe.

While sequels aren't a given Erica could be introduced and lost in one film and then Biollante completed in another.

I mentioned before you could play with the idea of Godzilla having to choose between protecting humans and the Earth or letting Biollante terraform the planet because they are like Brother and Sister.

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StardustGenius wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:46 am What would be really freaky is if they had explored Spacegodzilla's "evil alien that wants to take over the world mindset", and actually have him speak (through someone, or themselves telepathically). Wouldn't be all that different than the Legion or Zigra from Gamera. Happens in Ultra all the time. The Showa movies had unused scripts that were going in this direction.
I think AstroGodzilla was going to do your ideas honestly. It was going to mind control Miki.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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This actually begs the question: Should Toho just do a whole new plant based kaiju? I mean right now Biollante fills that niche but is kinda of a double edged sword.
GVK: TNE is a modern day 70s Showa Godzilla movie. Being a massive budget modern blockbuster CGI film instead of traditional 70s tokusatsu techniques doesn't change that. Fight me.

Anguirus and Godzilla being friends in the Showa series is cannon. Deal with it.

Monsterverse is not similar to either MCU nor Bayformers just because all three are big budget CGI blockbuster franchises.

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by StardustGenius »

They could, but I just don't think origins or anything is any kind of barrier to making another character appear. If a character is a draw, they are, some writers will notice, or some writers have their favorite and they'll find their audience in some manner. As long as the character has some kind of core trait in their portrayal, there shouldn't be an issue. Even then, one can just ignore it (Heisei, GMK Ghidorah). Biollante doesn't have to be some mad scientist's lost daughter. It could easily be a multinational company wanting to grow a superfood and it goes the wrong path.

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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LSD Jellyfish wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 5:41 am
JAGzilla wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 4:45 am Biollante would definitely lose something if she wasn't a tragic frankenthing cobbled together by a grieving father trying to bring his daughter back. That's the real impact of her. Honestly, I don't care about the final form and the final battle beyond general "yay, monster action!" and the technical impressiveness of the effects. For me, Biollante is all about the origin and the horror of the Rose Form.

I wouldn't oppose a new incarnation that emphasizes the Final Form and action, though. I'm sure CGI could do great things with her.
Biollante’s final form is amazing in the context of the film, because we see the transformation from something with emotion, and some semblance of humanity, to a completely crocodilian monstrosity. It also works from the reversal of a monster that was completely on the defensive, to now a monster that is heading right to Godzilla, biting and charging at him head on.
Yeah, I agree that there was some interesting devolution there. I don't think the movie really went anywhere with it though, did it? Once the ANEB kicked in and Godzilla collapsed, Biollante just broke down into spores and peacefully left, with that enigmatic image of Erica's face implying that her humanity was still intact despite the Final Form's appearance and violence.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by miguelnuva »

I always took it as Biollante needed to abandone Erika and the rose properties and become more Godzilla like but despite doing this Erika's should was actually still there.

Erika and had Rose have previously lost to Godzilla so Biollante needed to embrace that part of herself but in the end she's all still there.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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I always saw it as Godzillas DNA was just too strong and overwhelmed Erika and the plant DNA until it was aggressive, disgusting monstrosity. It seems a lot more tragic that way.

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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Everyone in here talking about changing Biollante's origins, and nobody brings up how she was just some alien-made mid-season boss for IDW's Rulers of Earth run. Or how she was made by ancient sentient alien bug things in Antarctica during Cerasini's Godzilla: At World's End novel. And I'm pretty sure she had a different origin in IDW's Godzilla: Cataclysm. Her origins have already been changed multiple times and the end result each time was satisfactory.


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plasmabeam wrote: Tue Dec 05, 2023 3:03 am Hear me out on this. What if Godzilla is actually Suko’s father? In GvK when Godzilla defeated Kong and they were roaring at each other, what if Godzilla inseminated Kong at that moment and that’s why they were screaming?

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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I'll say it again. Comic books, novels and video games are not even on the same level as the films themselves. People are a lot more willing to accept what happens in those because they're not official Toho canon. Gigan could appear as a wise cracking, human sized supervillian with a cigar in an IDW comic and I wouldn't give a rats ass. Because in the long run its a drawing in a monthly comic page and not a piece of cinema where the way the monsters are treated has more consequence.

And I know I'm going to get that "No! The comics are important! Toho loves them!" defense again. Im aware of how everyone here feels.

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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Mac Daddy MM wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 2:46 pm Everyone in here talking about changing Biollante's origins, and nobody brings up how she was just some alien-made mid-season boss for IDW's Rulers of Earth run. Or how she was made by ancient sentient alien bug things in Antarctica during Cerasini's Godzilla: At World's End novel. And I'm pretty sure she had a different origin in IDW's Godzilla: Cataclysm. Her origins have already been changed multiple times and the end result each time was satisfactory.
Actually I addressed it a page ago ;)

I said that Biollante’s origins being changed did little to nothing for me, with maybe of the exception of Cataclysm. While it’s cool to see Biollante more, I don’t really care for her being demoted to a big random mook for Godzilla or others to fight.

I’m looking forward to Rivals Biollante Vs Destoroyah in the coming months however. Maybe that’ll be interesting.
Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:54 pm Anno-san pleasures me more than Yamasaki-san.

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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Legion1979 wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 2:53 pm I'll say it again. Comic books, novels and video games are not even on the same level as the films themselves. People are a lot more willing to accept what happens in those because they're not official Toho canon. Gigan could appear as a wise cracking, human sized supervillian with a cigar in an IDW comic and I wouldn't give a rats ass. Because in the long run its a drawing in a monthly comic page and not a piece of cinema where the way the monsters are treated has more consequence.

And I know I'm going to get that "No! The comics are important! Toho loves them!" defense again. Im aware of how everyone here feels.

I mean your free to think that comics, novels, and video games are inconsequential, but your's and others argument that Toho hasn't used certain kaiju because they're tied to their origin too much is really unfounded. Toho as a company is extremely origin fluid with their kaiju, both past and present. In addition to Godzilla, Ghidorah, Mechagodzilla, and even Baragon having more than one origin, they have had dozens of various origins in their own manga adaptions, every single singular point kaiju basically has a new origin, and at times Toho would forbid comic writers from using the original origins of kaiju.

1. Toho loved and encouraged Marc Cerasini to tie the kaiju origins to American mythology and folktale.
2. During IDW's beginning run, Toho forbid origins of the Kaiju.

If you think it's poor writing, fair enough. But to think Toho cares about old backstories is naive thinking.
Last edited by darthzilla99 on Fri Jan 27, 2023 5:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
GVK: TNE is a modern day 70s Showa Godzilla movie. Being a massive budget modern blockbuster CGI film instead of traditional 70s tokusatsu techniques doesn't change that. Fight me.

Anguirus and Godzilla being friends in the Showa series is cannon. Deal with it.

Monsterverse is not similar to either MCU nor Bayformers just because all three are big budget CGI blockbuster franchises.

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by StardustGenius »

Is she really just a mook? Mook implies disposable and smallfry and numerous. Monster Of The Week probably.

Rivals Biollante VS Destoroyah should be cool! The art looks pretty fun too. Been trying to track down the artist to work on something of mine actually. However, the writing is pretty predictable when it comes to the fights. As obvious as KWC and NOAH. "This person? The favorite? They're gonna lose to this guy instead."

Almost always. Something like Spacegodzilla Vs Destoroyah WOULD be interesting because there's no clear favorite for an obvious "Haha! Gotcha!" upset.

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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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LSD Jellyfish wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 3:49 pm
Mac Daddy MM wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 2:46 pm Everyone in here talking about changing Biollante's origins, and nobody brings up how she was just some alien-made mid-season boss for IDW's Rulers of Earth run. Or how she was made by ancient sentient alien bug things in Antarctica during Cerasini's Godzilla: At World's End novel. And I'm pretty sure she had a different origin in IDW's Godzilla: Cataclysm. Her origins have already been changed multiple times and the end result each time was satisfactory.
Actually I addressed it a page ago ;)
Well I didn't read that far back!!!


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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by Voyager »

Look ya’ll, I’m just saying. The hand puppets really take me out of the experience. GRA they don’t look as bad, but in G54 it really distracts me, and in KKvG and MvG, they really take away from the phenomenal portrayal of Godzilla in the suit.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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StardustGenius wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 4:10 pm Rivals Biollante VS Destoroyah should be cool!
Rivals what now??!!

I need to get back into IDW comics. I haven't been keeping up with the revival.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

Post by miguelnuva »

Now I want to cigar smoking wise cracking Gigan in a comic.
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Re: Unpopular Godzilla Opinions

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RoE Biollante was utterly forgettable. Just another quick, inconsequential fight scene.

At World's End Biollante was probably the most forgettable, underutilized monster in that book. Outside of Battra, anyway. She did virtually nothing, and we never even saw how her fight scene ended. And Cerasini was capable of much, much better; his Varan and Kamacuras portrayals set the bar as far as I'm concerned.

Cataclysm I haven't read, so I won't comment.

That's not much of a track record for Biollante in supplementary media so far, though.
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