Are the Hesei Godzilla movies the black sheep of the Godzilla series?

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shadowgigan
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Re: Are the Hesei Godzilla movies the black sheep of the Godzilla series?

Post by shadowgigan »

I don't think its bad to enjoy a film for any reason, even if it's purely for nostalgia's sake. We all have different standards from which we judge these movies on, and I think we tread into murky territory when we start calling people idiot's over there opinion of a Godzilla movie. Besides this, I don't think you see anyone arguing that a film such as Godzilla v. Megalon is as high a work of art as a title such as Gojira. I think these fans are simply arguing they enjoy these films more and prefer them over the Heisei series. My favorite series happens to be Heisei, but to a certain extent I can understand these arguments.
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Re: Are the Hesei Godzilla movies the black sheep of the Godzilla series?

Post by H-Man »

I do not think they are. When I showed them to my daughter a couple of months back, she found them to be positively "epic," especially Godzilla and Mothra and G vs. MG II. I've always had a soft spot for them myself.

Also, to use an example, when the good folks at the Slaughter Film Podcast reviewed them back around 2017, they thought that it was best series of the three--and they were casual Godzilla fans and hardcore horror/B-movie fans on the whole. When they reviewed the Millenium series on the eve of the release of the 2014 film, they received a number of comments from listeners saying that the Heisei films were the best.

I think a lot of casual G fans and B-movie fans on the whole still hold them in high esteem.
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Re: Are the Hesei Godzilla movies the black sheep of the Godzilla series?

Post by Omegazilla »

It seems to me they are the most iconic. Most modern Godzilla designs are either resemble either Heisei Godzilla or some kind of fusion between Heisei and early Millennium Godzilla. It also gave Godzilla the Spiral Ray and Pulse Wave, which are not staples of the character. So I would say they are the very essence of Godzilla, not the other way around.
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Re: Are the Hesei Godzilla movies the black sheep of the Godzilla series?

Post by eabaker »

"The very essence of Godzilla" is a pretty extreme statement! It would tend to imply that the Showa era entries - including the original film - aren't "true" Godzilla movies, but more like a rough draft?
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Re: Are the Hesei Godzilla movies the black sheep of the Godzilla series?

Post by Thanos6 »

The Heisei series is the one that, to me, feels most like a Hollywood series. I never actually got the chance to see a Godzilla film in a theater until G2000; but watching all of them on film, both before and after, the Heisei films are the only ones where I can actually imagine myself watching them in an American movie theater. Take that as you will.
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Re: Are the Hesei Godzilla movies the black sheep of the Godzilla series?

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Thanos6 wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:53 am The Heisei series is the one that, to me, feels most like a Hollywood series. I never actually got the chance to see a Godzilla film in a theater until G2000; but watching all of them on film, both before and after, the Heisei films are the only ones where I can actually imagine myself watching them in an American movie theater. Take that as you will.
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Re: Are the Hesei Godzilla movies the black sheep of the Godzilla series?

Post by Anguirus »

Nah, I would consider the Millennium Era to be the black sheep. I'm suprised more don't consider the Millennium era to be at the bottom, well here on Toho Kingdom at least.
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Re: Are the Hesei Godzilla movies the black sheep of the Godzilla series?

Post by LegendZilla »

Why do the faults of the Heisei series ruin the films for people more so than the Showa?
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Re: Are the Hesei Godzilla movies the black sheep of the Godzilla series?

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LegendZilla wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:18 pm Why do the faults of the Heisei series ruin the films for people more so than the Showa?
Well, bear in mind that it's the other way around for a lot of people. We just have a lot of vocal Showa fans here on TK.

For me personally, the flaws in the Showa films tend to be more excusable because the genre was new then and still being perfected, and because the filmmakers were often working with shoestring budgets and more primitive effects technology. In spite of those shortcomings, they put clear heart and effort into their films and ensured that they were fun and enjoyable, with effects that were world class at the time. The Heisei series was made with money and tech available, but heart and effort were clearly lacking. The stories were bland and sloppy, and the effects were a joke compared to what America was putting out at the time.
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Re: Are the Hesei Godzilla movies the black sheep of the Godzilla series?

Post by LegendZilla »

JAGzilla wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:11 pm
LegendZilla wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:18 pm Why do the faults of the Heisei series ruin the films for people more so than the Showa?
Well, bear in mind that it's the other way around for a lot of people. We just have a lot of vocal Showa fans here on TK.

For me personally, the flaws in the Showa films tend to be more excusable because the genre was new then and still being perfected, and because the filmmakers were often working with shoestring budgets and more primitive effects technology. In spite of those shortcomings, they put clear heart and effort into their films and ensured that they were fun and enjoyable, with effects that were world class at the time. The Heisei series was made with money and tech available, but heart and effort were clearly lacking. The stories were bland and sloppy, and the effects were a joke compared to what America was putting out at the time.
You gave a good argument.
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Re: Are the Hesei Godzilla movies the black sheep of the Godzilla series?

Post by Omegamorph »

lmao no

Heisei best Godzillas (barring SG)
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Re: Are the Hesei Godzilla movies the black sheep of the Godzilla series?

Post by HedorahIsBestGirl »

Maybe the hatred has simmered off in 22 years but I think the TriStar flick is still the black sheep of the franchise. The anime trilogy gives GINO a run for its money though. Not sure which I find harder to sit through.
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Re: Are the Hesei Godzilla movies the black sheep of the Godzilla series?

Post by godjacob »

Honestly more than anything I think TK just has a heavy Showa bias and tends to be more overly critical of any other era that came after it. Heisei just tends to get the most vocal criticisms from the Showa fans, I don't see it as "black sheep" status has too many iconic staples for that to be its legacy.
Last edited by godjacob on Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Are the Hesei Godzilla movies the black sheep of the Godzilla series?

Post by mikelcho »

You know what I liked most about the Heisei Series? The continuity factor. Everything fit right into place and each film blended nicely into the next one.

The SPFX were very impressive, too, and were definitely improved (at least by Japanese standards) and they were certainly big-budget films (again, at least by Japanese standards).

The only thing Toho goofed up on was, IMO, not including Anguirus (and thus, as far as I can see, not only having him appear in all three eras, but certainly putting him up there with the Big Five (and who knows? maybe even changing it to the Big Six?)).
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Re: Are the Hesei Godzilla movies the black sheep of the Godzilla series?

Post by edgaguirus »

As I understand it, Anguillas isn't that popular in Japan. He has better standing with foreign audiences.
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Re: Are the Hesei Godzilla movies the black sheep of the Godzilla series?

Post by tbeasley »

I see them as kind of the Dalton to Brosnan James Bond era of Godzilla movies.
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Re: Are the Hesei Godzilla movies the black sheep of the Godzilla series?

Post by Terasawa »

tbeasley wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:04 pm I see them as kind of the Dalton to Brosnan James Bond era of Godzilla movies.
I like that analogy. I'd consider both the Dalton & Brosnan 007 films and the Heisei Godzilla series a return to the tone of the earlier entries but not necessarily the better films.
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Re: Are the Hesei Godzilla movies the black sheep of the Godzilla series?

Post by LegendZilla »

edgaguirus wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:22 pm As I understand it, Anguillas isn't that popular in Japan. He has better standing with foreign audiences.
Do you think that in the 70's, Japanese audiences would've gotten fed up with seeing him so frequently, craving more Mothra and Ghidorah?
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Re: Are the Hesei Godzilla movies the black sheep of the Godzilla series?

Post by edgaguirus »

I don't know. I suppose they're more tolerant of constant use because they like Mothra and KG.
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Re: Are the Hesei Godzilla movies the black sheep of the Godzilla series?

Post by Major sssspielberg! »

Hesei films aren't black sheep, per se. I do think the overall quality deteriorated very quickly, and a lot of people have picked up on that. It's become popular to bash on the Heisei flicks because the people who defend them tend to do so with much vitriol.
End of the day, for both Dougherty and Anno to directly reference scenes from Heisei films, I'd say black sheep doesn't really apply.
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