Godzilla: Male or Female?

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Godzillasaurus
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Re: Godzilla: Male or Female?

Post by Godzillasaurus »

I believe this sort of topic is merely opinionated. I believe all forms of Godzilla (including the 1998 American version) to be male. Plain and simple.
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Re: Godzilla: Male or Female?

Post by Major sssspielberg! »

Maaaaan some goofy skreeonk wrote a trash article about Godzilla's gender and linked this thread, watch out folks, we're about to get labeled as toxic
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Re: Godzilla: Male or Female?

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^ The article, for those who might want to check it out.

For the most part, I agree with the author's point that Godzilla's gender is generally inconclusive, unimportant, and dependent on the film we're talking about. But, the conclusion of the article got me:
But while I'd posit that it's not incorrect to gender Godzilla as, well, anything, I do think it's fascinating so many fans have been hung up on this for so long... But why? Why is there an incessant need to gender a giant lizard, and to "prove" that it's a "he" or a "she"? If anything, Godzilla is a great learning opportunity in gender-neutral language, and it might even be a fun exercise to start referring to them with they/them pronouns. And by "fun exercise," I mean, "a good way to de-stigmatize neopronouns."
It's ironic because the writer is just as hung up on this as anyone here--maybe even more so--otherwise why write a piece about Godzilla's gender at all?

I'm not against a female Godzilla or non-binary one, either, but I don't think there's any evidence in the Japanese films to support either. Admittedly, what little evidence we're given in disparate films doesn't seem to amount to much, but films operate on a different level than reality does. If a character in a film says Godzilla is a "papa" (such as in Son of Godzilla), and nothing else in the film explicitly refutes him, then we kinda have to accept that as a fact. (In real life, there's likely no way Goro Maki would have known Godzilla's gender or sex.)

And regarding the SoG example, at best, that's only identifying the gender of the 1955-1975 Godzilla. It really only specifically establishes his gender in Son of Godzilla.

I'd bet that no one involved in making the original Godzilla film gave the character's gender any serious thought, so for that reason you could definitely say that Godzilla's gender is open to interpretation. But at the same time, I'm positive that none of Honda, Kayama, Tsuburaya, Tanaka, etc. ever thought of Godzilla as a non-binary character, since that was pretty much a nonexistant concept in the mainstream in 1954. That shouldn't necessarily shoot down that idea, but it's something else that should be considered.
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Re: Godzilla: Male or Female?

Post by _JNavs_ »

Godzilla is male, he's the King of the Monsters.
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Re: Godzilla: Male or Female?

Post by Terasawa »

_JNavs_ wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:32 am Godzilla is male, he's the King of the Monsters.
The point of contention here is that that subtitle was added for the film's initial American release, and despite subsequently being adopted by Toho (and later on, other licensors), it shouldn't necessarily reflect the creators' intents.

Now, I definitely think there's weight to that argument, since Toho's adopted that moniker, but I wouldn't point to it as indisputable proof that all Godzillas are male.
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Re: Godzilla: Male or Female?

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Re: Godzilla: Male or Female?

Post by _JNavs_ »

Terasawa wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:43 am
_JNavs_ wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:32 am Godzilla is male, he's the King of the Monsters.
The point of contention here is that that subtitle was added for the film's initial American release, and despite subsequently being adopted by Toho (and later on, other licensors), it shouldn't necessarily reflect the creators' intents.

Now, I definitely think there's weight to that argument, since Toho's adopted that moniker, but I wouldn't point to it as indisputable proof that all Godzillas are male.
Oh I completely forgot that Gojira didn't have the classic moniker attached in the title at first, maybe America did contribute a bit more positively than we thought back then :lol:.

But yeah I see what you mean, I think most other incarnations even outright call him that in one form or another... hmm, an interesting case for sure. I think another aspect we have to look at is if he's called a "he" in all of his films, or "it" as an indeterminable variable.
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Re: Godzilla: Male or Female?

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_JNavs_ wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:54 am But yeah I see what you mean, I think most other incarnations even outright call him that in one form or another... hmm, an interesting case for sure. I think another aspect we have to look at is if he's called a "he" in all of his films, or "it" as an indeterminable variable.
That's actually another gray area. Japanese doesn't use gendered pronouns as frequently as English does, so in Japanese dialogue, Godzilla is apparently most often referred to by name only. (Or, another thing Japanese does which English does not, where the subject is simply implied. No noun of any sort is used to indicate the subject.) My very limited knowledge of Japanese isn't adequate enough to count the number of times Godzilla has been referred to with a gender pronoun, but I know in the '90s Godzilla movies it's practically nil. (There might be a few colloquial reference to Godzilla as male in GvSG, but I'd have to go through the Japanese closed captions to check and... I don't want to.) So, in that case, all the English versions which refer to Godzilla as either a "he," an "it," or anything else are likely creating information out of necessity that hadn't been supplied in the original dialogue.

That was one of the points raised in the article Major Spielberg mentioned: in English, we've historically referred to Godzilla as a he without any second thought, but that could have been an inadvertent invention of the original U.S. producers.

IMO, none of this was, likely to have been on the mind of Joe Levine or anyone else involved in the U.S. version. The concept of non-binary genders wasn't something the majority of people were thinking about even ten years ago, let alone in 1955/56. Even assuming for a moment that Godzilla's gender was "invented" by Americans and had not been specified in anything originating with Toho, I'm willing to bet the only biases in play were the ones inherent to that time. Godzilla is a product of less-enlightened times (at least in this regard), so I don't think there's anything wrong with referring to Godzilla as a he--or, for that matter, a she, an it, a they, or whatever you think best fits--at least until we're provided with irrefutable evidence one way or the other.
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Re: Godzilla: Male or Female?

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_JNavs_ wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:54 am But yeah I see what you mean, I think most other incarnations even outright call him that in one form or another... hmm, an interesting case for sure. I think another aspect we have to look at is if he's called a "he" in all of his films, or "it" as an indeterminable variable.
Japanese doesn't have nearly as much emphasis on gendered pronouns as English does (or on pronouns in general, for that matter), so the movies don't really give us anything to work with here.
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Re: Godzilla: Male or Female?

Post by miguelnuva »

Toho had shown us Mothra, Biollante,.Megagurius and the female Rodan were female. They adopted King of Monsters as the nickname, he has two Sons and in one of these films they directly say father. Toho has given him girlfriends in other media.

If Toho didn't want people to go off Godzilla isn't a male they've done a horroble job.
You can put it on my Tombstone Mothra vs Godzilla> Gojira
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Re: Godzilla: Male or Female?

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miguelnuva wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:51 pm Toho had shown us Mothra, Biollante,.Megagurius and the female Rodan were female. They adopted King of Monsters as the nickname, he has two Sons and in one of these films they directly say father. Toho has given him girlfriends in other media.

If Toho didn't want people to go off Godzilla isn't a male they've done a horroble job.
How does Godzilla having male offspring (which aren't necessarily biological offspring) prove Godzilla is a male?

Also, women and non-binary persons are capable of having girlfriends, too.
Last edited by Terasawa on Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Godzilla: Male or Female?

Post by Agent Smith »

Um didn't Toho say he was male?
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Re: Godzilla: Male or Female?

Post by miguelnuva »

Terasawa wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:45 pm
miguelnuva wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:51 pm Toho had shown us Mothra, Biollante,.Megagurius and the female Rodan were female. They adopted King of Monsters as the nickname, he has two Sons and in one of these films they directly say father. Toho has given him girlfriends in other media.

If Toho didn't want people to go off Godzilla isn't a male they've done a horroble job.
How does Godzilla having male offspring (which aren't necessarily biological offspring) prove Godzilla is a male?

Also, women and non-binary persons are capable of having girlfriends, too.
They have girlfriends now. When Godzilla was given girlfriends it was considered not normal for same sex relationship especially considering how strict Japan was with their views.

As for his offspring they were building Father and Son relationships. Once again in the era Godzilla was created it was Father's teaching sons and Mothers teaching daughters.
Last edited by miguelnuva on Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Godzilla: Male or Female?

Post by Terasawa »

Good points: I agree that, for the time and place those were made, that was pretty indicative that Godzilla was supposed to be a male (at least in those productions), although I wouldn't consider either one truly definitive. For one thing, are we going to let the existence of Godzilla's Gameboy girlfriend play a deciding role in governing the character's identity? And Godzilla's father/son relationship is really only explicit in one--maybe two--films, both from the 1960s. I think Godzilla's relationship with Baby/Junior was definitely parental, just not necessarily fatherly.
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Re: Godzilla: Male or Female?

Post by Jetty_Jags »

Um I'm fairly certain that Toho has expressively established Godzilla's species to be sexually dimorphic with female members of the species depicting lighter hues and cordiform dorsal plates as opposed to the maple leaves of almost every Godzilla incarnation.

Edit:
Does Godzilla look like this?
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I think not, so I consider this case closed! Alright mods time to lock up the thread :lol:
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Re: Godzilla: Male or Female?

Post by miguelnuva »

Terasawa wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:18 pm Good points: I agree that, for the time and place those were made, that was pretty indicative that Godzilla was supposed to be a male (at least in those productions), although I wouldn't consider either one truly definitive. For one thing, are we going to let the existence of Godzilla's Gameboy girlfriend play a deciding role in governing the character's identity? And Godzilla's father/son relationship is really only explicit in one--maybe two--films, both from the 1960s. I think Godzilla's relationship with Baby/Junior was definitely parental, just not necessarily fatherly.
Also Gojirin so two girlfriends but yes I agree. I don't think he had a gender in the 1954 film and Toho tried to call him an it but with time I feel male is ultimately what stuck with him.

Also forgot a big one, Bride of Godzilla was suppose to be the 3rd film as well.
Last edited by miguelnuva on Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Godzilla: Male or Female?

Post by edgaguirus »

If it was, then Toho had definitely settled on a male identity.
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Re: Godzilla: Male or Female?

Post by VoyagerGoji »

Eh. If this is just Showa, my head cannon is that the 54 one could possibly be female, and the 55-99 is definitely male.
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Re: Godzilla: Male or Female?

Post by m0nster01 »

Didn't Haruo Nakajima insist Godzilla was a he?

It's nothing official, but seeing as he's the actor who performed the role the most, I prefer to think that at least the second Showa Godzilla is a male.

Perhaps the Godzilla that appeared in Son of Godzilla is a third Godzilla? A female that could understand the signal from Minya's egg?

Just some lighthearted theorizing.
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Re: Godzilla: Male or Female?

Post by eabaker »

m0nster01 wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:35 am Didn't Haruo Nakajima insist Godzilla was a he?

It's nothing official, but seeing as he's the actor who performed the role the most, I prefer to think that at least the second Showa Godzilla is a male.

Perhaps the Godzilla that appeared in Son of Godzilla is a third Godzilla? A female that could understand the signal from Minya's egg?

Just some lighthearted theorizing.
Per Slate.com: "even the legendary Haruo Nakajima, who donned the beast’s suit for more than two decades starting with the original film, said he had no idea as to Godzilla’s gender"
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