Toho's Godzilla 4K Restoration Project

[Tamura]

Toho wouldn’t like to consider themselves cheap. They probably see themselves as rational wealth maximizers. When you see it from their perspective, it makes sense. If you’re trying to pragmatically extract as much wealth from your IP as possible at the cheapest cost, you’d reuse the same transfers over and over until the rest of us are at wit’s end. On the other hand, even if some at Toho wanted to retransfer these films to modern standards, who knows how long it would take to approve of something that simple?

[omgitsgodzilla]

Toho wouldn’t like to consider themselves cheap. They probably see themselves as rational wealth maximizers. When you see it from their perspective, it makes sense. If you’re trying to pragmatically extract as much wealth from your IP as possible at the cheapest cost, you’d reuse the same transfers over and over until the rest of us are at wit’s end. On the other hand, even if some at Toho wanted to retransfer these films to modern standards, who knows how long it would take to approve of something that simple?

"So much red tape... Every action requires a meeting!"

[BabyG1975]

So question, since Toho is restoring all of the original Japanese films to my knowledge. Would they in theory also restore the English versions? That being "King of the Monster!", "Raids Again", "King Kong vs. Godzilla", and "vs. The Thing". All of these have extra scenes in them.

I know that the others of the Showa era have title sequences but I don't see them restoring the English title sequences.

[UltramanGoji]

So question, since Toho is restoring all of the original Japanese films to my knowledge.

They're not.

Added in 1 minute 4 seconds:

Would they in theory also restore the English versions? That being "King of the Monster!", "Raids Again", "King Kong vs. Godzilla", and "vs. The Thing". All of these have extra scenes in them.

No. They're pretty much disassociating themselves entirely with the English versions of films like MVG and GRA. KKVG might see one because it's owned by Universal and GKOTM could theoretically as well, but the rest are definitely not, at least not by Toho themselves.

[Terasawa]

Toho apparently won’t even do modern transfers of its own archived English versions. I’m not sure they’ve touched those beyond audio elements since the mid 2000s.

[Tamura]

They couldn’t even offer Criterion their approved English dubs in PCM.

[Terasawa]

They couldn’t even offer Criterion their approved English dubs in PCM.

Hey man, just be glad we got anything at all.

[Malchik]

Toho wouldn’t like to consider themselves cheap. They probably see themselves as rational wealth maximizers. When you see it from their perspective, it makes sense. If you’re trying to pragmatically extract as much wealth from your IP as possible at the cheapest cost, you’d reuse the same transfers over and over until the rest of us are at wit’s end. On the other hand, even if some at Toho wanted to retransfer these films to modern standards, who knows how long it would take to approve of something that simple?

"So much red tape... Every action requires a meeting!"

Maybe the writers of Shin were actually internalizing their frustrations with Toho's bureaucracy.

[Tamura]

Toho wouldn’t like to consider themselves cheap. They probably see themselves as rational wealth maximizers. When you see it from their perspective, it makes sense. If you’re trying to pragmatically extract as much wealth from your IP as possible at the cheapest cost, you’d reuse the same transfers over and over until the rest of us are at wit’s end. On the other hand, even if some at Toho wanted to retransfer these films to modern standards, who knows how long it would take to approve of something that simple?

"So much red tape... Every action requires a meeting!"

Maybe the writers of Shin were actually internalizing their frustrations with Toho's bureaucracy.

The thing is, while the current incarnation of Toho is awful and I'm extremely critical of them, that company isn't an individual problem. Toho, specifically, is just competing on the glorious free market with other unaccountable, bureaucratic, private tyrannies for the greediest, most secretive, c̶o̶s̶t̶-̶c̶o̶n̶s̶c̶i̶o̶u̶s̶ efficient, revisionist, difficult to work with Japanese media tyranny award, and right now they're probably tied with Toei. Every complaint you could possibly say about Toho, you could also say about other self-interested, greedy companies, or about the systems of domination and undemocratic governance we encounter in all aspects of life under late stage capitalism. Shin isn't just about Toho, it's about being stuck on the phone with automated customer service for over an hour trying to get to a real human being.

The title of this thread is misleading and should be changed. I have a suggestion: Another year goes by without modern transfers of almost everything. Too long?

[The Octopus]

you could also say about other self-interested, greedy companies, or about the systems of domination and undemocratic governance we encounter in all aspects of life under late stage capitalism.

I bet you went to alot of protests back in the day huh?

[HighFlyers77]

Hey everyone. Was not sure where else to post this but this seems like the right forum.
I made a petition for 2014 to get a 4K transfer with improved quality, HDR, and such.
https://www.change.org/p/warner-brother ... n-hdr-pass
Pacific Rim, a film that came out a year earlier, apparently got one. I don’t think this is impossible to pull off.

[Chrispy_G]

Hey everyone. Was not sure where else to post this but this seems like the right forum.
I made a petition for 2014 to get a 4K transfer with improved quality, HDR, and such.
https://www.change.org/p/warner-brother ... n-hdr-pass
Pacific Rim, a film that came out a year earlier, apparently got one. I don’t think this is impossible to pull off.

I signed it, I'll share the link somewhere.

Godzilla 2014 is literally a modern film with a BUNK transfer on DVD/Blu Ray. Kong: Skull Island has a 4K release, Godzilla: King of the Monsters has a 4K release. Pacific Rim has a 4K release. GODZILLA 1998 HAS A 4K RELEASE for crying out loud.

There is literally no reason NOT to give Godzilla a fresh, properly handled 4K transfer with an HDR pass.

I felt like it absolutely would have been done to cash in on the release of KOTM in theaters, THEN I thought it would absolutely be re-issued for the release of KOTM on the home market.

I would say "Oh it will definitely happen to tie into the theatrical release of Godzilla vs Kong" or assume that there will DEFINITELY be a "Godzilla vs Kong: Monsterverse Collection" 4K box set when GvK hits the home market....but at this point who the heck knows.

[HighFlyers77]

Hey everyone. Was not sure where else to post this but this seems like the right forum.
I made a petition for 2014 to get a 4K transfer with improved quality, HDR, and such.
https://www.change.org/p/warner-brother ... n-hdr-pass
Pacific Rim, a film that came out a year earlier, apparently got one. I don’t think this is impossible to pull off.

I signed it, I'll share the link somewhere.

Godzilla 2014 is literally a modern film with a BUNK transfer on DVD/Blu Ray. Kong: Skull Island has a 4K release, Godzilla: King of the Monsters has a 4K release. Pacific Rim has a 4K release. GODZILLA 1998 HAS A 4K RELEASE for crying out loud.

There is literally no reason NOT to give Godzilla a fresh, properly handled 4K transfer with an HDR pass.

I felt like it absolutely would have been done to cash in on the release of KOTM in theaters, THEN I thought it would absolutely be re-issued for the release of KOTM on the home market.

I would say "Oh it will definitely happen to tie into the theatrical release of Godzilla vs Kong" or assume that there will DEFINITELY be a "Godzilla vs Kong: Monsterverse Collection" 4K box set when GvK hits the home market....but at this point who the heck knows.

Thank you so much man it means a lot!

[John Pannozzi]

So question, since Toho is restoring all of the original Japanese films to my knowledge. Would they in theory also restore the English versions? That being "King of the Monster!", "Raids Again", "King Kong vs. Godzilla", and "vs. The Thing". All of these have extra scenes in them.

I know that the others of the Showa era have title sequences but I don't see them restoring the English title sequences.

Toho produced the new footage for the American cut of Mothra vs. Godzilla/Godzilla vs. The Thing, so I really hope that they would remaster/preserve it it. I likewise want them to preserve 1956's GKOTM.

[goji1986]

Toho produced the new footage for the American cut of Mothra vs. Godzilla/Godzilla vs. The Thing, so I really hope that they would remaster/preserve it it. I likewise want them to preserve 1956's GKOTM.

Considering they did absolutely nothing to preserve the unique American cuts of any of their G catalog for HD, don’t expect them to do an about face and preserve them in 4K. I want to be proven wrong but I’m not keeping my hopes up.

[John Pannozzi]

Toho produced the new footage for the American cut of Mothra vs. Godzilla/Godzilla vs. The Thing, so I really hope that they would remaster/preserve it it. I likewise want them to preserve 1956's GKOTM.

Considering they did absolutely nothing to preserve the unique American cuts of any of their G catalog for HD, don’t expect them to do an about face and preserve them in 4K. I want to be proven wrong but I’m not keeping my hopes up.

Sad but likely true.

Didn't the USA cut of Godzilla vs. The Thing get included on a Japanese Laserdisc boxed set of Mothra vs. Godzilla? That was many years ago, but it at least gives precedence.

Too bad the Classic Media DVD had a slightly cropped version of the that film's American Cut. Hopefully the Simitar DVD is still available.

[heiseigodzilla425]

Toho produced the new footage for the American cut of Mothra vs. Godzilla/Godzilla vs. The Thing, so I really hope that they would remaster/preserve it it. I likewise want them to preserve 1956's GKOTM.

Considering they did absolutely nothing to preserve the unique American cuts of any of their G catalog for HD, don’t expect them to do an about face and preserve them in 4K. I want to be proven wrong but I’m not keeping my hopes up.

Sad but likely true.

Didn't the USA cut of Godzilla vs. The Thing get included on a Japanese Laserdisc boxed set of Mothra vs. Godzilla? That was many years ago, but it at least gives precedence.

Too bad the Classic Media DVD had a slightly cropped version of the that film's American Cut. Hopefully the Simitar DVD is still available.

They did release a deluxe gatefold LaserDisc, which included the American version. However, it used UPA's fullscreen master, which is the same as what was used on Paramount's LaserDisc (and the fullscreen side of the Similar DVD, and CMs first DVD).

Toho also released 5 DVD box sets in 2008 of the Showa and Heisei Godzilla films. The DVDs are the same as what had previously been released, but each box had an exclusive bonus disc. The bonus for the first box was Godzilla vs The Thing and it utilized the same cropped 16x9 master that the 2006 CM DVD used.

While on the subject of Toho releasing American versions of their films, they released KOTM '56 as part of a deluxe LaserDisc box set (which included a booklet and a replica script,among other things). KOTM was also an exclusive bonus in the Final Box.

I'm sure these films were released on VHS as well. To that end, they also released Godzilla 1985 on VHS.

[John Pannozzi]

Considering they did absolutely nothing to preserve the unique American cuts of any of their G catalog for HD, don’t expect them to do an about face and preserve them in 4K. I want to be proven wrong but I’m not keeping my hopes up.

Sad but likely true.

Didn't the USA cut of Godzilla vs. The Thing get included on a Japanese Laserdisc boxed set of Mothra vs. Godzilla? That was many years ago, but it at least gives precedence.

Too bad the Classic Media DVD had a slightly cropped version of the that film's American Cut. Hopefully the Simitar DVD is still available.

They did release a deluxe gatefold LaserDisc, which included the American version. However, it used UPA's fullscreen master, which is the same as what was used on Paramount's LaserDisc (and the fullscreen side of the Similar DVD, and CMs first DVD).

Toho also released 5 DVD box sets in 2008 of the Showa and Heisei Godzilla films. The DVDs are the same as what had previously been released, but each box had an exclusive bonus disc. The bonus for the first box was Godzilla vs The Thing and it utilized the same cropped 16x9 master that the 2006 CM DVD used.

While on the subject of Toho releasing American versions of their films, they released KOTM '56 as part of a deluxe LaserDisc box set (which included a booklet and a replica script,among other things). KOTM was also an exclusive bonus in the Final Box.

I'm sure these films were released on VHS as well. To that end, they also released Godzilla 1985 on VHS.

What was on the other bonus discs?

[Chrispy_G]

I think in the case of KOTM and G2000, Toho has a sort of "we approve of this" opinion. I think even THEY respect what KOTM did for the legacy, really carving out Godzilla as a global brand(the fact that the US version was imported back into Japan in 1957 really says something) and with G2K they evidently just liked that version so much....or 'approved' of it so much(every change had to go by them for approval) that they use it as their official international version everywhere outside of Japan.

But the OTHER US versions....whether they are right or wrong, they don't seem to consider them nearly as vital in carving Godzilla's legacy.

The rights deal means that the US version of King Kong vs Godzilla will never go away so long as Universal holds it(forever) and continues to see value in re-issuing it over the years.

Outside of that, we're probably stuck with whatever Toho approves.

I am good with at LEAST having a US Dub of all of the films, every film deserves to at least get a straight dub. The US versions typically just remove or cut footage and don't usually add anything(or rather, don't usually add any material worth much).....but the Frontier Missile sequence for Mothra vs Godzilla is a unique sequence. It is an action sequence in the middle of the film featuring Godzilla and lots of missiles and explosions.....and I just think it works well for the pace and structure of the film to have an exciting sequence like that in the movie.

I don't necessarily need that specific US cut of the film, but I do think that SEQUENCE deserves to exist, and it should be optional to view the film with that sequence included.

[Terasawa]

There's some sort of limited evidence that suggests Toho won't touch certain U.S. versions because there might still be U.S. companies that hold rights to those films. For example, in 2005, Son of Godzilla was one of many titles included in a renewal/transfer of rights involving a multitude of companies. One company involved was Anchor Bay, which had released the film (licensed from Golden Books) on VHS in 1997. The date of execution of the transfer was after Sony acquired the five Showa Godzilla films from Toho.

That's far from definitive, of course, but it does add some weight to the hypothesis that certain rights to derivative versions of certain Godzilla movies are not held by Toho.

Toho, or an approved U.S. licensee, will also only be able to work with whatever materials are still extant. KOTM still exists because Criterion was able to acquire a 35mm IP and a 16mm negative of that version of the film and did the restoration work themselves. Had the license instead gone to -say, Mill Creek- you'd better believe the film would have been presented in the same crummy SD telecine dating back to approx. 1980. This is why the U.S. version of Rodan looked like shit the last time it turned up on TCM several years ago: Classic Media either no longer had high quality film elements with which to mount a restoration or didn't care, and thus the same master that Vestron released more than thirty years prior (!!) is still the "best" version of the film available.

Toho and Sony (via Columbia) have had a relationship that's lasted more about 70 years, so I'm sure there's some good faith being practiced by Toho that allows the TriStar version of G2K to supersede Toho's own English version. I don't think it's often as simple as "Toho approves of that version but not X version".

Re the Frontier Missile sequence: Toho has only ever included that sequence on Japanese video by using a U.S. video source. They may no longer have the original film element containing that sequence, or it's been misplaced or mislabeled. The same is evidently true of the alternate Frankenstein Conquers the World footage that AIP included in its 1966 release, and evidently so for the gobs of alternate takes only seen in UPA's assembly of Gargantuas. In other words, unless Toho is able to locate these trims or the foreign negatives/internegs they were printed on, we almost assuredly won't be seeing any of that footage ever again.

But since Toho's corporate policies are always changing, who knows. However, history hasn't been kind to these alternate versions, and certainly not recent history.