Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

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Kaiju-Killer 751
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

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Terasawa wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 11:42 am
Kaiju-Killer 751 wrote: Thu May 21, 2020 4:55 pm Zilla...who I am absolutely sure they actually made his render and model look WORSE from the trailer to the movie.

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I don't think so.

The first image is not a frame that appears in either the film or trailer. It's actually a production photo, clearly scanned from a printed page (i.e., most likely from a Japanese photo book, not something someone's HP printer spit out), so it can't be any real use in comparing the trailer render to the the film version.

It might be more useful as a reference for how the render looked composited against a live action element without any of the additional digital elements added in the film (and, to a lesser degree, in the trailer, where those shots have fewer extra elements), including the digital dust and debris and color grading/saturation which so heavily changes the look of the film. Also, the artificial light sources affecting the model are slightly different in that production photo than in this non-compressed, full-res Blu-ray screenshot from the film.

Keep in mind, too, that the completed film might have added some slight fake film grain (since GFW was shot digitally and grain wouldn't have been part of the captured images), and that the Hi-Vision transfer on Toho and Sony's Blu-rays would have very noisily rendered additional film grain from the 35mm positive film element that was telecined to make the HD transfer. All of that would have further slightly obscured the Zilla model more than it is in that production photo. Furthermore, the production photo also appears to have been artificially sharpened. There's far less natural grain in that image than there is noise, which was probably further compounded by the jpg compression of the Wikizilla image.

But what really hurts your argument is that it's totally impossible to make any determination to that effect from the images you linked, three of which are screenshots of some horrendously compressed and macroblocked copy of the film.

Here's a second uncompressed screenshot from the Sony Blu-ray. It really doesn't appear any less detailed than the same model appears in the production photo. The skin texture in this screenshot (which was intentionally motion-blurred by the VFX team) actually looks really good for CGI from a Japanese film made in 2004.

Finally, there's this comparison shot from the trailer, also sourced from Sony's Blu-ray. You'll notice it's not quite the same as the image from the film -- it appears that the live action and digital elements were recomposited for the film, but the Zilla animation seems to be the same. The trailer on Sony's disc is of far worse quality than the film, and the lighting affecting Zilla again appears to be different, but even with those caveats, I don't think you can honestly say the trailer render is more detailed than the model that appears in the completed film.

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eabaker wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 11:34 am The second half is meandering, tedious melodrama.
And still better produced than GFW.
https://imgflip.com/gif/4yzidw That's fair-I'm sorry if I came across as rude or ignorant-but I do think that while the trailer version isn't more 'detailed', it still looks a bit better, if only cuz he looks a little more colorful
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Terasawa
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

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Kaiju-Killer 751 wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:02 am https://imgflip.com/gif/4yzidw That's fair-I'm sorry if I came across as rude or ignorant-but I do think that while the trailer version isn't more 'detailed', it still looks a bit better, if only cuz he looks a little more colorful
No apologies necessary, dude. I hope I didn't come off as rude in my reply.

And I get what you're saying and I agree, the character looks better in the trailer than in the film. But it has nothing to do with the CGI model or how it was rendered for one vs. the other. It's just (primarily) a matter of how different the film and trailers look.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

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Honestly after a re-watch in January I absolutely love this movie now. Best of the Millennium era aside from GMK. Kitamura did whatever the hell he wanted and I'm all for it.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

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Kaltes-Herzeleid wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:47 pm Honestly after a re-watch in January I absolutely love this movie now. Best of the Millennium era aside from GMK. Kitamura did whatever the hell he wanted and I'm all for it.
Yeah, I've had this thought a lot lately. You can dislike it, but Kitamura and Kaneko were really the only directors who actually did something unique with the Millennium's "anything goes" philosophy instead of the Neo-Heisei of the other entries (as much as I adore 2000's execution)
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

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The score for this film alone pumps testosterone directly into the veins
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

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Welcome to the Final Wars cult. Your iPod full of Keith Emerson, Sum 41 and Zebrahead as well as a bottle of Bullet Time™ are waiting to be claimed.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

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Major sssspielberg! wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:21 pm Welcome to the Final Wars cult. Your iPod full of Keith Emerson, Sum 41 and Zebrahead as well as a bottle of Bullet Time™ are waiting to be claimed.
Ah man, the memories; Godzilla: Final Wars was one of my childhood entries to Godzilla. Hence why I'm so fond of it.

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

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How come the lighting in the film is so burnt out?

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

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Kaiju-Killer 751 wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:14 pm
Major sssspielberg! wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:21 pm Welcome to the Final Wars cult. Your iPod full of Keith Emerson, Sum 41 and Zebrahead as well as a bottle of Bullet Time™ are waiting to be claimed.
Ah man, the memories; Godzilla: Final Wars was one of my childhood entries to Godzilla. Hence why I'm so fond of it.
I'm very fond of it too.

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

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Jeff-Goldblum2 wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:35 am How come the lighting in the film is so burnt out?
It was pretty trendy at the time to give everything that hot look and then tint it with color washes. I feel like Traffic was the big trend-setter there, but did it with purpose, and subsequently other filmmakers just recycled the effect without the intent.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

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I am not a fan of FW but it doesn't deserve the hate it gets either. Sure the characters are paper thin and the monsters that appear are practically blink and you'll miss it but when we get a prolonged fight it can actually be entertaining at times. I like the Godzilla suit overall and it looks very fitting of what how that Godzilla fights with his agile melee style. I can say I did like how the true final boss kaiju was a Super Ghidorah so to speak. So while this movie did have some good moments it was just a horrible way to end the series for a while.

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

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Ah yes, my first Godzilla movie. One of my unironic favorites. I love everything about it. Also, what!? Godzilla fighting Monster X in an aerial battle using his tail like Motherskreeonkin’ tigger!?!? THAT WOULD’VE BEEN AWESOME!
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

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Jermobooka wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:01 pm Ah yes, my first Godzilla movie. One of my unironic favorites. I love everything about it. Also, what!? Godzilla fighting Monster X in an aerial battle using his tail like Motherskreeonkin’ tigger!?!? THAT WOULD’VE BEEN AWESOME!
That would have been something to see, for sure! Still, that's gotta hurt using your tail like a spring like that. Maybe he could even have used a 'Kangaroo Kick' like Gorosaurus, as a bit of a shout-out to that classic Showa monster (seeing as he sadly didn't make it into the film)
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

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Ultimately, I consider this movie a bit of a guilty pleasure. I certainly understand why it is easily contemptible, though; it has an incredibly bizarre tone for a Godzilla movie, quite a few odd movie homages, strange suits, a cameo from a wrestler, an OP Godzilla, an obnoxious soundtrack, and absolutely nothing resembling a cohesive story. Nevertheless, I find some curious enjoyment in all the mayhem; it is a bit cathartic to see Godzilla just beat the hell out of everything, backed up by a so-corny-its-great performance by Don Frye, and a plot that goes from setpiece to setpiece, instead of from storybeat to storybeat. I consider it an overall guilty pleasure, or so bad it's good; it doesn't make a lick of sense, but it is easy to be entertained watching it.

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

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Keizer wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:28 pm Ultimately, I consider this movie a bit of a guilty pleasure. I certainly understand why it is easily contemptible, though; it has an incredibly bizarre tone for a Godzilla movie, quite a few odd movie homages, strange suits, a cameo from a wrestler, an OP Godzilla, an obnoxious soundtrack, and absolutely nothing resembling a cohesive story. Nevertheless, I find some curious enjoyment in all the mayhem; it is a bit cathartic to see Godzilla just beat the hell out of everything, backed up by a so-corny-its-great performance by Don Frye, and a plot that goes from setpiece to setpiece, instead of from storybeat to storybeat. I consider it an overall guilty pleasure, or so bad it's good; it doesn't make a lick of sense, but it is easy to be entertained watching it.
Well unless you use this site. Then FW Godzilla is just a giant wimp who only ever did anything cause he fought a bunch of weaklings.

Personally I tend to look at this movie in a positive light. It is a dumb popcorn flick, but it never pretends to be anything more than that and least has fun with itself. I think the devise nature was it being the last Godzilla film which is fair but now that it is not even the last Toho made Godzilla film it feels weird that many still hold such contempt for it.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

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godjacob wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:21 pm
Keizer wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:28 pm Ultimately, I consider this movie a bit of a guilty pleasure. I certainly understand why it is easily contemptible, though; it has an incredibly bizarre tone for a Godzilla movie, quite a few odd movie homages, strange suits, a cameo from a wrestler, an OP Godzilla, an obnoxious soundtrack, and absolutely nothing resembling a cohesive story. Nevertheless, I find some curious enjoyment in all the mayhem; it is a bit cathartic to see Godzilla just beat the hell out of everything, backed up by a so-corny-its-great performance by Don Frye, and a plot that goes from setpiece to setpiece, instead of from storybeat to storybeat. I consider it an overall guilty pleasure, or so bad it's good; it doesn't make a lick of sense, but it is easy to be entertained watching it.
Well unless you use this site. Then FW Godzilla is just a giant wimp who only ever did anything cause he fought a bunch of weaklings.

Personally I tend to look at this movie in a positive light. It is a dumb popcorn flick, but it never pretends to be anything more than that and least has fun with itself. I think the devise nature was it being the last Godzilla film which is fair but now that it is not even the last Toho made Godzilla film it feels weird that many still hold such contempt for it.
Yeah, I agree. I will say that, if this was truly the last "real" Godzilla movie, I would probably dislike it as well; like I said, it is by no means a truly "good" movie, just a dumb fun one. Now that the Monsterverse, Shin Godzilla, Anime Trilogy (regardless of how anyone feels about them), and the upcoming Anime series itself are happening, it seems clear that Godzilla isn't going away too soon. Considering that, I really can't bear any ill-will towards Final Wars; it may be an oddly conceived 50th anniversary film that doesn't really fit all that well into the series as a whole, bu it is nevertheless enjoyable on its own.

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

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Is it bad that GFW is in my top five favorite kaiju films?

1. Shin Gojira
2. GMK
3. G2 Legion
4. G3 Iris
5. GFW

It might not be an objectively good film in the slightest, but i can’t help but love it
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

Post by Kaltes-Herzeleid »

Jermobooka wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:16 am Is it bad that GFW is in my top five favorite kaiju films?

1. Shin Gojira
2. GMK
3. G2 Legion
4. G3 Iris
5. GFW

It might not be an objectively good film in the slightest, but i can’t help but love it
Naw, Final Wars is pure kino. Don't feel bad. Praise Final Wars. Love Final Wars.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

Post by Kaiju-Killer 751 »

Funnily enough, one scene I love in Final Wars is the Godzilla vs Zilla fight.

I mean, yes, it is obviously a 'Take That!' to one of my favorite monsters, but it's ironically one of my favorite scenes-I like the score, I like the quick battle, I like the humor involved; For whatever reason, I enjoy watching the scene a lot! Perhaps because, in all fairness, the 'tuna-head' didn't do all that much worse than any of the other monsters in the film-heck, they put three of Godzilla's most powerful allies up against him, and even they seemed to put up less of a fight than Zilla did.

Plus, Zilla got some time in the spotlight, getting to tear Sydney to pieces alongside his fellow Kaiju-And at least he didn't get done in by a bunch of (admittedly powerful) handheld laser rifles and supersoldiers like poor Ebirah.

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

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Even though most of the Kaiju in this film get short squash fights, I still think the majority were handled better than in Destroy All Monsters where most just stand around doing nothing without any set pieces to call their own. So I always did consider this the better anniversary/Kaiju rumble film of the two.
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