Kaiju Fan Confessions

[eabaker]

To go back to the discussion of Japanese films vs. American films, Shin Godzilla's human scenes alone are more visually interesting than anything I've seen in any recent Hollywood blockbuster.

God yes! All those wide angle close-ups give such a sense of immediacy as the characters speak! And there's one fascinating shot, when Yaguchi and Patterson are talking outside, where the camera steadily pulls back farther and farther, and ends up locking them into the lower right corner as the space to the left just gets bigger and bigger; it's such a strange but lovely move/composition!

I don`t know why but I distinctly remember a moment where Yaguchi is going up some metal stairs, and the closeup of his feet and the sound of them hitting against the metal synch up with the decisive battle theme perfectly. I think the fact that I remembered something so minor is a testament to how great that film is.

Yes! Anno and Higuchi really worked to make every moment distinctive and dynamic.

[MechaGoji Bro7503]

To go back to the discussion of Japanese films vs. American films, Shin Godzilla's human scenes alone are more visually interesting than anything I've seen in any recent Hollywood blockbuster.

God yes! All those wide angle close-ups give such a sense of immediacy as the characters speak! And there's one fascinating shot, when Yaguchi and Patterson are talking outside, where the camera steadily pulls back farther and farther, and ends up locking them into the lower right corner as the space to the left just gets bigger and bigger; it's such a strange but lovely move/composition!

Once again here I am agreeing with you two! I do agree with Shin being much more visually interesting than any recent Hollywood blockbuster, I'll even say it's better than most modern American films.
That shot you are refering to E, I believe was to show how the trains could be part of the answer to stopping Godzilla without the use of a nuclear bomb, since the characters were discussing the US's plan in that same scene.

[LSD Jellyfish]

Aww man the mods deleted Goji89’s comment detailing all of us and wondering where the KAIJU-KINO expert Goji Watch was all this time.

I gotta ask him, why he thinks the characters in Shin are garbage or boring. I get that there’s a lot of dialogue, and with subtitles it’s easy to miss, but I find the implications by specific lines very specific and interesting to follow.

[Spuro]

I gotta ask him, why he thinks the characters in Shin are garbage or boring. I get that there’s a lot of dialogue, and with subtitles it’s easy to miss, but I find the implications by specific lines very specific and interesting to follow.

I can't speak for him, but as someone who shares the same complaint, most of the characters felt extremely flat. Apart from Ann Patterson we never see any of them grow or change over the course of the story, we never get to really know them as people, we don't learn anything about them other than what political position they aspire to be in. That most of their dialogue was loads of exposition about either Godzilla or the nitty gritty details of politics didn't help. I felt too much time was spent explaining the situation and not enough was used to give the cast depth.

I liked Shin, don't get me wrong, but I believe the characters were it's weakest aspect by a significant margin. They don't bring the emotional or personal weight that a disaster film like this should carry.

[Terasawa]

Others’ mileage may vary but I didn’t particularly mind that the characters in Shin were one or two dimensional because to me the film was about how inefficiently the government functions in time of crisis. It’s a “government procedural,” just as any given episode of Law & Order is a police/court procedural.

[eabaker]

Others’ mileage may vary but I didn’t particularly mind that the characters in Shin were one or two dimensional because to me the film was about how inefficiently the government functions in time of crisis. It’s a “government procedural,” just as any given episode of Law & Order is a police/court procedural.

Yeah, to boil it down to a very basic level, there are two kinds of stories (there aren't only two, but, again, boiling it down):

- Stories about the way situations affect characters

- Stories about the way characters affect situations

Now, in fact, there's a lot of grey area, and ideally in a story some of both happen. Godzilla movies, on the whole, tend to be more the second type than the first, though. And Shin is very much the second type. It is a movie in which a disaster occurs, the world is put in peril, and the situation is resolved only because this very specific group of characters, with their own particular world views and motivations, came together and redirected the course of events.

Of course, the very broad statement I just made could be applied to an awful lot of movies that also have their characters go through greater transformations than the characters in Shin do (and I don't agree that Anne is the only character to evolve; Yaguchi matures significantly over the course of the story). My point is about what Shin emphasizes, though.

I'm also curious now about Goji89's deleted comment.

[Spuro]

My point is about what Shin emphasizes, though.

And I respect that. Hell, the first act of the film is my favorite part. I LOVE the satire.

I feel however that as the film goes on it's more than gotten it's point across, and the relentless exposition gradually becomes a burden on the story's emotional core, particularly after disaster strikes. There's a really well done moment with Yaguchi struggling with the loss of their political leaders and the destruction of Tokyo. I loved that! I just wish there were more scenes like that.

Shin is absolutely an intellectual film, but its emotional weakness, to me at least, just keeps it from reaching something like the Return of Gojira or even G14.

[eabaker]

My point is about what Shin emphasizes, though.

And I respect that. Hell, the first act of the film is my favorite part. I LOVE the satire.

I feel however that as the film goes on it's more than gotten it's point across, and the relentless exposition gradually becomes a burden on the story's emotional core, particularly after disaster strikes. There's a really well done moment with Yaguchi struggling with the loss of their political leaders and the destruction of Tokyo. I loved that! I just wish there were more scenes like that.

Shin is absolutely an intellectual film, but its emotional weakness, to me at least, just keeps it from reaching something like the Return of Gojira or even G14.

I also would rank it below Return, because I'm ultimately less invested in the characters of Shin. But Return is very near the top of my list of favorite movies in the series, so I'm really just praising Shin with faint damnation there.

[Dr. Professor]

I also would rank it below Return, because I'm ultimately less invested in the characters of Shin.

Aside from the Prime Minister, I've never been able to get invested in the character of The Return of Godzilla. I've always found them so dull, personally. However, the Prime Minister's political battle is some of the most engaging human drama in the whole franchise.

[eabaker]

I also would rank it below Return, because I'm ultimately less invested in the characters of Shin.

Aside from the Prime Minister, I've never been able to get invested in the character of The Return of Godzilla. I've always found them so dull, personally. However, the Prime Minister's political battle is some of the most engaging human drama in the whole franchise.

I really like Hayashida (sad as it is that Akihiko Hirata didn't live to play him).

I also saw Godzilla 1985 on the big screen when I was 6 years old, so that movie has a pretty special place in my development as a Godzilla fan.

[Dr. Professor]

I really like Hayashida (sad as it is that Akihiko Hirata didn't live to play him).

Yeah, Hayashida's pretty cool. I guess it's mostly the other leads that I have a problem with. It definitely would have been really nice to see Hirata in the role. He's probably my favorite recurring actor in the Showa series. It's especially sad knowing how hard he campaigned to get the film made.

I also saw Godzilla 1985 on the big screen when I was 6 years old, so that movie has a pretty special place in my development as a Godzilla fan.

That's true, I forgot you did that. That's super cool. I wish that I liked ROG more than I do. When I watch it I can recognize that it's a great film, but it's never been one of my favorites. I hope that changes some day.

[Tyrant_Lizard_King]

I was three when Godzilla 1985 came out.

[Spuro]

I was born in the 90s and G2K never came to Canadian theaters...

The first Godzilla movie I EVER got to enjoy in theaters was LPG. For that reason alone it holds a very special spot in my heart.

[Tyrant_Lizard_King]

1985 is still my favorite Godzilla movie. Shin is 3rd. I know 85 gets a lot of flack for how it was Americanized but I just enjoy the pacing. Watching Return just felt off to me because I was so use to the more exciting pace of 85, especially during the nuclear plant attack scene. I also love how it feels slightly like a spy/political thriller.

[Terasawa]

I think there's the germ of a good movie in The Return of Godzilla but in execution it mostly falls flat for me. I like the way G85 tightens up the pacing but I don't think the new scenes add a lot and unfortunately their inclusion ended up in the removal of a number of key scenes with Keiju Kobayashi's Prime Minister.

[eabaker]

I prefer the pacing in the Japanese cut. The best way I can describe it is that it's a movie that breathes.

[LSD Jellyfish]

I saw Godzilla 2000 when I was 4, weirdly enough I could’ve sworn I was older when I saw it, but the dates match up.

[Tyrant_Lizard_King]

I've only watched Return once years ago so my memory on it is pretty vague. Hopefully I can find the time to remedy that now that I have it on Bluray.

[Godzillian]

I prefer the pacing in the Japanese cut. The best way I can describe it is that it's a movie that breathes.

Agreed, ROG knows when to take a breath and not rush itself

[Spuro]

You guys have to give the Godzilla: Ressurection fan cut a try. It really combines the best aspects of RoG and G85 very well.