Monster Mayhem Round 6: Zarm vs. GodzillavsRayquaza

[Coobzilla03]

Zarm
- Godzilla (Heisei)
- Jiger
- Jet Jaguar
- Sanda
- Godzilla Junior
- Anguirus (1968)
- Mothra (2001)
- Mechagodzilla 1975

vs.

GodzillavsRayquaza
- Godzilla (GMK)
- Titanosaurus
- Mothra (1964)
- Megalon
- Kumonga (Showa)
- The Big One
- Mothra ('03)
- Megaguirus
- Mechani-Kong

Arena: Tokyo (GvM)

Either of you guys want to deploy your summonables? Voting begins with your answers.

[GodzillavsRayquaza]

You missed listing Mechani-Kong on my team. Also I will deploy my Gyaos not that it will help much.

[Coobzilla03]

Mechagodzilla 1975 and Jet Jaguar are effected by Megagurius' EMP waves, so you'll be fine!

[Zarm]

I will deploy my aggregates. But seriously, the way this EMP works and our friendly fire rules, two robots on the team are going to be disabled, and a third that has been shown to be prone to being disabled by exotic energy fields will be just fine because it's morally aligned with somebody else?

[Coobzilla03]

With that, voting may begin!

[Zarm]

Huh. Coulda sworn we'd already fought. Guess not!

Welllll... Megaguirus in the critical factor here, so we'll deal with that first. I do think that Mothra is going to be a good counter to her; indeed, even if all three fliers dog-pile her, I think her agility is superior to anyone but Megaguirus, and her projectile weapon gives her an edge; the poison powder and reflective scales won't be a counter to that. That said- I suspect Mothras will be tangling and Megaguirus will be focused elsewhere. If she follows old habits as a sadist/alpha and goes after Heisei, I think she's toast. She goes in with that stinger, he's going to blast her in the face or nuclear pulse her before she can drain him. It was only 2000's slow build-up to atomic breath that gave Megaguirus, a glass canon, her strength. If she goes after Heisei, she's gone, and two of my fighters are back on the field; I think I can take this fight.

On the other hand, if she's acting with tactical intelligence, she'll go after Junior. Draining him essentially removes his effectiveness as a fighter (he can maybe go after the Gyaos?) and pretty much relegates him to brief damage-sponge, while giving her one of the most potent weapons she can absorb (you're welcome, GvsRQ ). If she does that... I'm pretty screwed. So, I think it comes down to whether you think Megaguirus instinct to go after the biggest dog will win out over her tactical cunning (and exactly how cunning you think she is in the first place).

That aside- I do think my Mothra can leverage her agility and ranged weapon to eventually defeat the other two, but not in enough time to be much help to anyone else. Similarly, I do think Heisei can triumph over GMK eventually, but not quickly.

That leaves Jiger, Sanda, Junior, Anguirus, and some aggregates against Titnosaurus, Megalon, Kumonga, the Big One, and Mechani-Kong. I think Jiger can be some help here- quilling someone at range, ovipositoring someone else; which is good, because these meleers outclass mine. Junior's ray- unless Megaguirus steals it- will be a help, too. The optimum scenario is to quill Titano, ovipositor Megalon (who is not going down to the remainder of my team otherwise), and Junior battling Kumonga (who I think he can eventually defeat, have the atomic ray power and resistance to poison to do so). Even then... Anguirus and Sanda don't really have the power to take down the Big One and Mechani-Kong. Anguirus won't go down easy, as he's well armored against what they can dish out... but victory is not in his grasp, by a long shot. (I'm assuming the Aggregates and Gyaos will pretty much just be taking each-other out).

Long story short: I need my mechs. Megaguirus goes after a Godzilla who can handle her, I get them back- I can win this. Megaguirus goes after someone shrimpier that can give her a significant fraction of the same power and also be eliminated in effectiveness from the field? I don't have what it takes. The outcome of this battle, from my perspective, hinges on what each individual voter thinks she'll do.

[GodzillavsRayquaza]

Megaguirus’ emp was actually the reason I chose her. I was originally going to go with Showa Gigan, so that Megalon could be directed in battle to be better, but EMP just seemed better overall to me.

But as Zarm said, Megaguirus is the lynchpin here. Upon rewatching the battle between Godzilla and Megaguirus on YouTube, I can confirm that Megaguirus does not immediately go for draining her opponent. She prefers tackling her opponent, and only seems to go for the energy drain after a while fighting. With that, I think we can safely say she won’t immediately get herself killed against Heisei Godzilla.

So then, how does this fight go? GMK and Heisei should be roughly even against each other. Heisei would win out, but I believe GMK could survive long enough for help to come his way. GMK Mothra could maybe keep my Mothras distracted long enough, but if Megaguirus decides to get involved in that fight, GMK Mothra isn’t lasting long.

Titanosaurus, Megalon, The Big One, Kumonga, and Mechani-Kong (plus possibly Megaguirus, and probably not at the very beginning) vs Jiger, Sanda, Junior, Anguirus, and Aggregates. The Aggregates were only dangerous to Godzilla because there was at least a dozen of them, and because they only had one target. Here, their numbers are too low and there’s too many targets for them to do too much before getting crushed.

Titano is going to manhandle whoever he goes up against, the best anyone could do against him is Junior getting a lucky shot in, and that isn’t a guaranteed win. Though, Junior getting murdered might set Heisei Godzilla off...

Jiger could do something if she was able to sit back, but here there’s too many opponents for her to do that. Anyone on my team except for Kumonga (maybe, that poison is deadly) getting up close is a death sentence for her. Add in the fact that either way this skirmish has a numbers advantage on my side, and her chances aren’t looking good.

Sanda and Anguirus are tough, but they can’t really handle any of the opposition well. Mechani-Kong is the only one I can really see either handling well, but if one of them does get Mechani-Kong, then the other’s getting a superior in almost every way opponent.

If Megaguirus gets involved in this battle, and lets GMK Godzilla fight Heisei Godzilla, then my victory is... easier. I want to say Megaguirus drains Junior, or maybe Jiger, and in general lets my team win that battle easily. I want to say this then lets my team dogpile Heisei Godzilla, beating him to death, therefore vote me.

But Heisei Godzilla is ridiculous, with a nuclear pulse that makes ganging up on him dangerous and insane regen, also I can’t guarantee Megaguirus doesn’t gun for Heisei Godzilla immediately, getting herself killed, letting 75 Mechagodzilla rain hell on my team while Jet Jaguar mocks them with a thumbs ups.

So ultimately, i’m leaning myself due to an all around better team, a sizable numbers advantage, and Megaguirus showing cunning and strategy. But I am not voting yet because Heisei Godzilla is very deadly, and Megaguirus is unpredictable.

[Zarm]

Megaguirus’ emp was actually the reason I chose her. I was originally going to go with Showa Gigan, so that Megalon could be directed in battle to be better, but EMP just seemed better overall to me.

The tragic part for me is, she was my second choice; I could have claimed her first, and almost did. I decided on MechaG because he was the one I least wanted to face, thinking between Heisei, Mothra, and '75's sharpshooting, I could take Megaguirus.

Because I forgot about the high frequency wave.

letting 75 Mechagodzilla rain hell on my team while Jet Jaguar mocks them with a thumbs ups.

Whatever happens in the match, you have made my day with this mental image.

[Coobzilla03]

Breathe tournament, breathe!

Aggregates and Gyaos probably get crushed at the beginning. Heisei Godzilla is stronger than GMK, but I don't see GMK going down very fast at all.

As for the drafts, GodzillavsRayquaza has a clear advantage in both strength and numbers. After a few casualties (mostly at the hands of Jiger) they triumph, ganging up on Heisei Godzilla. That is, if Megaguirus is alive.

If Megaguirus goes for Heisei, which I think she will, Heisei will be in for a rough time, fighting both GMK and her. Whatever he does to one, the other will get him for it.

In the end, I favor GodzillavsRayquaza. I think Megaguirus can last long enough for GvR's drafts to finish their battles and gang up on Heisei Godzilla. If she does fall though, when everyone is ganged up on Heisei, I'm not sure Jet Jaguar and Mechagodzilla can last long enough to make the difference. Mechagodzilla, while powerful, is very sluggish and hesitant in combat. GMK Godzilla can capitalize off this and hit him with a supercharged beam, or a melee-oriented kaiju can throttle him. Jet Jaguar can be offed by Titanosaurus and possibly Mechani-Kong, or GMK if need be.

[Zarm]

If Megaguirus goes for Heisei, which I think she will, Heisei will be in for a rough time, fighting both GMK and her. Whatever he does to one, the other will get him for it.

I would suggest that if Megaguirus gets close enough to do any serious harm, Heisei's rapid stlye of attack is more likely to kill her. There isn't the same warning to dodge, a quick enough atomic ray fire to catch her before she can drain, if she stops to stab him, plus there's the nuclear pulse to contend with- which can harm both foes at once.

I'd also suggest that Heisei's durable enough that finishing her off does not represent a sufficient distraction for the battle with GMK to turn. Actually killing an immobilized Megaguirus take a few seconds- not a lethal distraction. Catching her is the trick, but unless she holds off on coming in close for most of the battle, including forgoing the stab, I think she will be caught and dispatched early on... which applies to.the below.

I think Megaguirus can last long enough for GvR's drafts to finish their battles and gang up on Heisei Godzilla. If she does fall though, when everyone is ganged up on Heisei, I'm not sure Jet Jaguar and Mechagodzilla can last long enough to make the difference. Mechagodzilla, while powerful, is very sluggish and hesitant in combat. GMK Godzilla can capitalize off this and hit him with a supercharged beam, or a melee-oriented kaiju can throttle him. Jet Jaguar can be offed by Titanosaurus and possibly Mechani-Kong, or GMK if need be.

I think it's important to remember that at least a few of the draft are still likely to be taken out by my side- I still believe that my mother could take out both of the other two, but even if that does not end up being the case, I'm certain she could take out at least one. And if Junior is not megaguirus victim, that he could do some damage as well as Jiger. In short, it won't be the full team of draft against Heisei. Even in such a dog pile, the nuclear pulse would bode ill for the brawlers.

Which could, in theory, leave only Megalon and Kumonga in any shape to face a revived MechaG and Jet Jaguar; the rest damaged enough from their own draft battles and the pulse that MechaG's barrage would finish them off. (Especially those rotating missiles, which he doesn't seem to save for later).

In short, I think even in that worst case scenario, that by the time Megaguirus goes down, most or all of my drafts are all ready taken out, and the others try to gang up on Heisei, there is still the potential for the remaining trio to turn that tide.

I do recognize that it all comes down to how quickly in the battle you think Megaguirus will fall, or if she will fall at all- and if this argument does not change your mind on that, I respect that. But I do want to really emphasize that first section, and the belief that Megaguirus' standard tactics, mixed with Heisei's more-aggressive fighting style, pulse, and quicker ray discharge time, will cause her to come down quickly, and at minimal cost to Heisei's battle with GMK.

[GodzillavsRayquaza]

If she goes for Heisei Godzilla immediately, Megaguirus might not have to worry about the nuclear pulse, or at least not during the first drain. It took Godzilla several minutes to use the nuclear pulse while King Ghidorah was choking him, and while it took much less time for him to use it against Mothra, it still isn’t exactly insta-pop. Unfortunately I can’t find how long it took Megaguirus to drain Godzilla.

[Zarm]

But if I recall correctly, she does also seem to go for the gut/groin stab, which would leave her right in the line of fire for the atomic breath. Godzilla 2000 has such a buildup that he didn't get a shot off in time... but Heisei won't have that problem.

[Coobzilla03]

Godzilla 2001 as in GMK or as in the Godzilla vs. Megaguirus one?

[Zarm]

Godzilla 2001 as in GMK or as in the Godzilla vs. Megaguirus one?

Ack! I always forget that 2000 was in '99, and Megaguirus was in 2000. Yes, I was referring to the Godzilla vs. Megaguirus one. I will edit my post to reflect that.

[GodzillavsRayquaza]

But if I recall correctly, she does also seem to go for the gut/groin stab, which would leave her right in the line of fire for the atomic breath. Godzilla 2000 has such a buildup that he didn't get a shot off in time... but Heisei won't have that problem.

That’s true, but that doesn’t mean she’ll always only try to stab the front of a monster. You have to remember that GMK Godzilla will also be fighting Heisei Godzilla (at least in the scenario we all seem to have agreed upon), most likely close up. And before you say that Megaguirus could get taken down before GMK can get up close, Megaguirus was overwhelming the much more agile 2000 Godzilla (not to be confused with Godzilla 2000, because reasons) with her speed. Barring a lucky shot, Heisei isn’t killing her quickly.

Or perhaps one could also argue she would be able to realize that a direct assault on Heisei Godzilla would be hazardous after a period of watching him battle GMK Godzilla, but I would rather not try pursuing this angle, as that would be making a lot of assumptions we have no baseline for.

To address other things: Jiger’s capabilities against my team. Her quills are tough, but I feel as if their danger is being overstated. They were only as damaging as they were to Gamera due to the precise places she shot him, and due to his anatomy. Jiger’s quills specifically stopped Gamera from being able to retract his limbs into his shell, which is what allowed her to use her ovipositor against him.

Against something like the Big Skullcrawler, Megalon, or Titanosaurus, the quills will not have the same effect. They’ll hurt, but not nearly as much as they did against Gamera, especially considering how none of my team will let her sit back and fire her quills as easily as she did against Gamera. Jiger cannot survive long in melee range against most of my team, and unlike Gamera, they will rush her, especially once the quills start hurting them or she tries getting further away.

Also, the Gyaos might actually be able to help the Mothras. At max size, they’re almost as big as GMK Mothra, which means their beams might actually hurt her. Or at least, they can distract her long enough for my Mothras to do something.

[Zarm]

As far as I know, the quills proved capable of piercing kaiju flesh; I don't see any reason why they would not still do so against the Big Skullcrawler or Titanosaurus. (Unelss you are disputing the paralysis, in which case I would agree- but the kind of damage is still going to be harmful even if it doesn't immobilize). She also has hear heat ray.

And it is true, the Gyaoas might be able to help the Mothras; but by the same token, the Aggregates can also be of some assistance to their ground teammates, especially a rushed Jiger or Junior; their rays may not be as effective against the likes of Titanosaurus as showa Godzilla's ray was, but he's still not going to enjoy beam damage, nor would the Big Skullcrawler. (Megalon, Kumonga, and Mechani-Kong, they might be less effective against- though if they swarmed Kumonga and avoided the stinger or swarmed Mechani-Kong, I could still see some damage being done).

[GodzillavsRayquaza]

As far as I know, the quills proved capable of piercing kaiju flesh; I don't see any reason why they would not still do so against the Big Skullcrawler or Titanosaurus. (Unelss you are disputing the paralysis, in which case I would agree- but the kind of damage is still going to be harmful even if it doesn't immobilize). She also has hear heat ray.

I am disputing the paralysis, and while i’m not saying they won’t hurt, i’m just saying I don’t see them as a massive factor to tip the scales in your favor, which is what i’m getting from the fact that you keep mentioning Jiger as a primary factor of thinning my team’s numbers. And while her heat ray might do damage, I don’t see it as that important. It takes her a while to actually use it, and i’m pretty sure most of my team could take a hit from it rather well.

And it is true, the Gyaoas might be able to help the Mothras; but by the same token, the Aggregates can also be of some assistance to their ground teammates, especially a rushed Jiger or Junior; their rays may not be as effective against the likes of Titanosaurus as showa Godzilla's ray was, but he's still not going to enjoy beam damage, nor would the Big Skullcrawler. (Megalon, Kumonga, and Mechani-Kong, they might be less effective against- though if they swarmed Kumonga and avoided the stinger or swarmed Mechani-Kong, I could still see some damage being done).

Yeah, if all three Aggregates manage to climb onto one kaiju on my team, that kaiju isn’t going to do very well. They’re fragile, but considering what they (in much greater numbers, but still) did to Burning Godzilla, they’re dangerous. I don’t think they by themselves could kill a team member, unless it’s Kumonga (due to her anatomy making it far more difficult for her to potentially fight them off), but they’ll do damage for certain.

Here’s the thing. I don’t see this battle as a whole as one-sided. In my opinion, I need Megaguirus to survive for a long period of time to keep your mechs disabled until the rest of your team, minus Heisei Godzilla, is down, otherwise my team is in trouble. I think that the battle between our drafts would still be tough, and that Titano, Megalon, and the Big One are all going to come out of it, at best, slightly wounded. Kumonga and Mechani-Kong might make it, but they’re not going to be doing very well.

[Zarm]

I am disputing the paralysis, and while i’m not saying they won’t hurt, i’m just saying I don’t see them as a massive factor to tip the scales in your favor, which is what i’m getting from the fact that you keep mentioning Jiger as a primary factor of thinning my team’s numbers. And while her heat ray might do damage, I don’t see it as that important. It takes her a while to actually use it, and i’m pretty sure most of my team could take a hit from it rather well.

I would disagree. Again, being punctured by giant spears is pretty damaging, and a heat-ray that can vaporize city blocks does some significant damage. I get that last round, Coobzilla started the trend of trying to downplay Jiger's durability and offensive capabilities, but the fact remains that she has three weapons that can do pretty significant damage- puncturing, burning/vaporizing, and straight-up taking out enemy kaiju- as well as the proven ability to take some pretty hefty hits without damage, flight capabilities, and an adaptability in combat tactics; whenever her tactics started not completely dominating her opponent, she'd move to the next one. She was only slow to change up tactics because in the initial encounter, the first one was fully effective. Thus, if the contention is that those initial tactics will be less effective against your fighters (which I think we have a disagreement one), I don't think it will take her a while to switch up those tactics either. And based on demonstrated capabilities, metal is even more susceptible than flesh to vaporization from the heat ray- so I would think that Mechani-Kong, as well as notoriously beam-weak Titanosaurus, and no-reason-to-think-he'd-stand-up-to-a-beam-well Big Skullcrawler would be having some trouble with it. (Not to mention Junior's heat ray).

Here’s the thing. I don’t see this battle as a whole as one-sided. In my opinion, I need Megaguirus to survive for a long period of time to keep your mechs disabled until the rest of your team, minus Heisei Godzilla, is down, otherwise my team is in trouble. I think that the battle between our drafts would still be tough, and that Titano, Megalon, and the Big One are all going to come out of it, at best, slightly wounded. Kumonga and Mechani-Kong might make it, but they’re not going to be doing very well.

That seems fair enough.

[MuchWowSuchGodzilla]

I think Heisei Godzilla is the key here. I dont think any one of GvRs melee fighters can survive a nuclear pulse, and thats assuming he has to use it.

Alot about how this battle plays out has been said in post already, but I think we are 1. downplaying the aggregates usefulness and 2. overrating Megaguirus. Heisei is a beam spammer, and we all know if Heisei gets one shot on Meggy its essentially over. The aggregates can definitely provide a viable distraction for Zarms drafts to deal some critical damage against GvRs team. GMK Godzilla will naturally be drawn to Mothra, so I dont think the Godzilla vs Godzilla matchup will be happening right away. Once MechaGodzilla starts his full arsenal attack, it is over for GvR and his crew. I think the question here is can Megaguirus get his EMP off in time...and I honestly doubt it. Once GvRs drafts are gone, whatevers left of Zarms will team up to finish off GMK Godzilla.

[Zarm]

While I certainly like the sound of your analysis, I do feel compelled to point out one thing- Megaguirus is fast and maneuverable. Like, ridiculously fast and maneuverable. Like bad-special-effects-that-defy-the-laws-of-physics fast and maneuverable. I agree that it's one-hit-and-it's-all-over... but getting that hit is the trick. That's why I'm operating on the assumption that she'd have to get in pulse range, or stop to try and stab/drain to be in one place long enough for Heisei to hit her.

I don't want to overrate her, sure- as my entire case depends on her vulnerability- but I don't want to underrate her, either.