Monsterverse Missteps

[Vakanai]

... I also didn't like how they turned Godzilla into the villain, contrary to his previous characterization in the MV - and despite what some people argue, he was changed and made into a villain that was out of character for that film.

I agree. Both Godzilla's look (a different coloration and the overused 'threat display' internal lighting) and his behavior (animalistic and cruel, almost schoolyard level bullying) were radically different in GvK when compared to the earlier films.

I think even his face was redesigned to look more evil. He had like this evil devil smile going on a lot. I did not care for it at all for this Godzilla. If this was the first film, sure it could've worked. But making him so antagonistic and villainous after having been the opposite for his two previous films? And yet all some fans care about is that he won against the big monkey.

[gottatalktothefake]

>another one of these threads

[Lesko]

Oh man I could write an essay on this. However since most of the key stuff has already been covered in depth by others I'll focus on something less focused on in this thread. That is the style the MV takes from other cinematic universes. Rather than trying to create a distinct identity that will make this stand out not only from other Godzilla entries but other blockbuster hits as well, we just get a clone of those with a Godzilla flair to it. Now this doesn't mean the MV is bad, although I do think it is, but it does detract from a lot of the potential. It is of course not too late to fix this mistake and become more unique going forward but I find that very unlikely.

Anyway what do I mean when I say it borrows too much from other cinematic universes? Pretty much all of the key factors. Hollow writing and characters that just serve as a buffer to the actual action. This is easy to fix but most studios don't seem interested in that. I don't think the GA is interested in it either which is why the studio isn't. Let's also not forget the tons of cliches. Like empty character sacrifices and how the heros always show up at the right time to help Godzilla defeat a monster. Even if he historically beat it before. I don't want to spend too much time on the types of cliches except one. That attempt at comedy. Now this is a huge part of cinematic universes nowadays. To inject "comedy" for a franchise not really known for that. Again I think this ties down to GAs. They seriously can't handle too much drama or action within a short period so we get these horrid one liners that try to lighten the mood. I think they are very distracting and one of the worst faults not just in the MV but in other cinematic universes also. G14 was fairly low on this but KOTM, GVK, and even KSI had too much. Especially KotM.

I know I have more but this is all I have just off the top of my head without trying to sound too derivate from other posters here.

[Vakanai]

Oh man I could write an essay on this. However since most of the key stuff has already been covered in depth by others I'll focus on something less focused on in this thread. That is the style the MV takes from other cinematic universes. Rather than trying to create a distinct identity that will make this stand out not only from other Godzilla entries but other blockbuster hits as well, we just get a clone of those with a Godzilla flair to it. Now this doesn't mean the MV is bad, although I do think it is, but it does detract from a lot of the potential. It is of course not too late to fix this mistake and become more unique going forward but I find that very unlikely.

Anyway what do I mean when I say it borrows too much from other cinematic universes? Pretty much all of the key factors. Hollow writing and characters that just serve as a buffer to the actual action. This is easy to fix but most studios don't seem interested in that. I don't think the GA is interested in it either which is why the studio isn't. Let's also not forget the tons of cliches. Like empty character sacrifices and how the heros always show up at the right time to help Godzilla defeat a monster. Even if he historically beat it before. I don't want to spend too much time on the types of cliches except one. That attempt at comedy. Now this is a huge part of cinematic universes nowadays. To inject "comedy" for a franchise not really known for that. Again I think this ties down to GAs. They seriously can't handle too much drama or action within a short period so we get these horrid one liners that try to lighten the mood. I think they are very distracting and one of the worst faults not just in the MV but in other cinematic universes also. G14 was fairly low on this but KOTM, GVK, and even KSI had too much. Especially KotM.

I know I have more but this is all I have just off the top of my head without trying to sound too derivate from other posters here.

Yep, the MCU-ification of modern cinema. Not only is more humor injected into scripts now, but it's largely a very specific, very quippy sort of humor in particular that the MCU has popularized.

[shadowgigan]

The single biggest misstep for me was the G’14 trailers’ “false advertising” on tone, along with killing off Joe Brody.

Added in 36 seconds:

You all already know what I'm gonna say - Wingard deciding that a big kaiju movie didn't need effort put into the storytelling aspects of film-making was a huge misstep.

It was fun the first time around but now I just skip a majority of the human parts. Agreed.

Lucky you - I couldn't even have fun the first time around. Only movie I ever left angry having watched. Doesn't help that I also didn't like how they turned Godzilla into the villain, contrary to his previous characterization in the MV - and despite what some people argue, he was changed and made into a villain that was out of character for that film.

I couldn’t leave that film angry. It was the first time my girlfriend and I could enjoy going to the theaters in almost a year, and for a Godzilla movie? No way I’m leaving angry. I’m still a little bit shocked we are seeing blockbuster Godzilla films. I never thought I’d see the day the franchise was this accessible. That being said, I obviously have my criticisms of this film.

[Vakanai]

The single biggest misstep for me was the G’14 trailers’ “false advertising” on tone, along with killing off Joe Brody.

Added in 36 seconds:


It was fun the first time around but now I just skip a majority of the human parts. Agreed.

Lucky you - I couldn't even have fun the first time around. Only movie I ever left angry having watched. Doesn't help that I also didn't like how they turned Godzilla into the villain, contrary to his previous characterization in the MV - and despite what some people argue, he was changed and made into a villain that was out of character for that film.

I couldn’t leave that film angry. It was the first time my girlfriend and I could enjoy going to the theaters in almost a year, and for a Godzilla movie? No way I’m leaving angry. I’m still a little bit shocked we are seeing blockbuster Godzilla films. I never thought I’d see the day the franchise was this accessible. That being said, I obviously have my criticisms of this film.

Again, to each their own - we all have our different like and dislikes, criticisms differ. My experience isn't universal. But...my criticisms of that movie are in quantity and severity that I regret spending the time to watch it all the way through. I've never regretted watching a Godzilla film before, I didn't think it was possible. But if it were possible to undo it, I'd undo having ever watched it.

[Rando Yaguchi]

^Oh c'mon, it wasn't *that* bad.

[shadowgigan]

Lucky you - I couldn't even have fun the first time around. Only movie I ever left angry having watched. Doesn't help that I also didn't like how they turned Godzilla into the villain, contrary to his previous characterization in the MV - and despite what some people argue, he was changed and made into a villain that was out of character for that film.

I couldn’t leave that film angry. It was the first time my girlfriend and I could enjoy going to the theaters in almost a year, and for a Godzilla movie? No way I’m leaving angry. I’m still a little bit shocked we are seeing blockbuster Godzilla films. I never thought I’d see the day the franchise was this accessible. That being said, I obviously have my criticisms of this film.

Again, to each their own - we all have our different like and dislikes, criticisms differ. My experience isn't universal. But...my criticisms of that movie are in quantity and severity that I regret spending the time to watch it all the way through. I've never regretted watching a Godzilla film before, I didn't think it was possible. But if it were possible to undo it, I'd undo having ever watched it.

Have you watched Godzilla’s Revenge?

[Vakanai]

I couldn’t leave that film angry. It was the first time my girlfriend and I could enjoy going to the theaters in almost a year, and for a Godzilla movie? No way I’m leaving angry. I’m still a little bit shocked we are seeing blockbuster Godzilla films. I never thought I’d see the day the franchise was this accessible. That being said, I obviously have my criticisms of this film.

Again, to each their own - we all have our different like and dislikes, criticisms differ. My experience isn't universal. But...my criticisms of that movie are in quantity and severity that I regret spending the time to watch it all the way through. I've never regretted watching a Godzilla film before, I didn't think it was possible. But if it were possible to undo it, I'd undo having ever watched it.

Have you watched Godzilla’s Revenge?

I have - I don't think it's near as awful as people make it out to be (still bad, just not as bad as folks say) and it still was a better and more enjoyable movie for me than...that most recent...thing.

[gottatalktothefake]

Imagine defending Godzilla’s revenge

[DynomikeGojira]

Lol can we just accept that Vakanai just doesn't like GvK and has consistently given their reasons for doing so and I loved GvK.

A major misstep for the MonsterVerse to me personally hiring Michael Dougherty and Zach Shields for KOTM. How in the world can Michael Dougherty decide in a major battle with 4 classic Toho kaiju that he figured the audience wanted to follow the same human characters that many people didn't even respond to well and say what you will about Gareth Edwards but he was able to craft a more satisfying final battle that was appropriate for both the monsters and the humans.

[Vakanai]

Imagine defending Godzilla’s revenge

I liked the innocent dreamlike story, what's wrong with that? It's still executed poorly, but there's a nice core there that could've been something in better hands.

Added in 2 minutes 21 seconds:

Lol can we just accept that Vakanai just doesn't like GvK and has consistently given their reasons for doing so and I loved GvK.

I do, and I have - yet every time I make a complaint about it people try and debate the issue with me as if somehow they can prove me wrong. I'm never going to throw my hands up and say it's a good movie, so it kind of baffles me why people try...

[DynomikeGojira]

Imagine defending Godzilla’s revenge

I liked the innocent dreamlike story, what's wrong with that? It's still executed poorly, but there's a nice core there that could've been something in better hands.

Added in 2 minutes 21 seconds:

Lol can we just accept that Vakanai just doesn't like GvK and has consistently given their reasons for doing so and I loved GvK.

I do, and I have - yet every time I make a complaint about it people try and debate the issue with me as if somehow they can prove me wrong. I'm never going to throw my hands up and say it's a good movie, so it kind of baffles me why people try...

Yeah various opinions should be able to coexist it makes are fanbase organic and alive.

[Cryptid_Liker]

The entire Team Godzilla plot of GvK. They undid Mark's entire character arc in 30 seconds, made one of KotM's worst characters the main protagonist, turned the son of Ishiro freaking Serizawa into an afterthought, and was just overall boring at best. Bernie's the only redeeming factor.

[DynomikeGojira]

Yeah Team Godzilla didn't need to be in this movie at all that time could've been used to flesh out the Apex characters and their motivations including Ren but as always rather than do something creative we get cheap exposition again.

[Lesko]

Imagine defending Godzilla’s revenge

I'm not trying to beat that pretentious title nazi but isn't it All Monster's Attack? The reason why I am even bringing this up is because I always thought Godzilla's Revenge made no sense at all. Who is he getting revenge on exactly? It just is right up there with Gigantis for worst alternative title ever. At least All Monsters Attack kind of makes sense with the roster of monsters. All of that aside I think any MV entry is better than that movie though lol

[Vakanai]

Imagine defending Godzilla’s revenge

I'm not trying to beat that pretentious title nazi but isn't it All Monster's Attack? The reason why I am even bringing this up is because I always thought Godzilla's Revenge made no sense at all. Who is he getting revenge on exactly? It just is right up there with Gigantis for worst alternative title ever. At least All Monsters Attack kind of makes sense with the roster of monsters. All of that aside I think any MV entry is better than that movie though lol

I agree that All Monsters Attack is a better name than Godzilla's Revenge for the reasons you stated (I do disagree that any MV entry is better than this movie - I can think of one really recent one I feel is much, much worse...). I always thought the premise of this movie could make for a really great film if we ever got a Studio Ghibli Godzilla entry. Seriously, that'd be pretty cool.

[Vakanai]

Imagine if you would that you're off to visit family accompanied by some friends, largely minding your own business, but on the way there some stranger shows up and beats you down and knocks you out. Eventually you manage to make it to your family's house, but no one's home. Still shook up from the random attack and beating you took you go to the kitchen to grab a knife just to feel a little safer, only to have your assailant from earlier bust down the door and proceed to beat you down and stomp you so terribly your heart stops beating. Luckily one of the friends you brought along happens to be an EMT and manages to get your heart beating again. As you awaken another of your friends points out that your assailant has an assailant of their own, who is proceeding to try and kill the stranger who literally just killed you for a little bit. Your friend tells you that the person kicking the butt of your would-be murderer is your real enemy, and this making sense to you, you go out and kill your murderer's would-be murderer. Your assailant then gets up and glares at you until you drop the knife and show submission. This is enough to get your assailant to relent, and they decide not to murder you again, but on the condition you move into your family's basement (turns out your family had all died and no one is home) and never show your mug outside again so your former assailant doesn't have to see you. You gladly do so, as this is somehow a happy ending.

I've been told this plot isn't a misstep but makes perfect sense, yet somehow I'm still not convinced...

[Bigdog]

Imagine if you would that you're off to visit family accompanied by some friends, largely minding your own business, but on the way there some stranger shows up and beats you down and knocks you out. Eventually you manage to make it to your family's house, but no one's home. Still shook up from the random attack and beating you took you go to the kitchen to grab a knife just to feel a little safer, only to have your assailant from earlier bust down the door and proceed to beat you down and stomp you so terribly your heart stops beating. Luckily one of the friends you brought along happens to be an EMT and manages to get your heart beating again. As you awaken another of your friends points out that your assailant has an assailant of their own, who is proceeding to try and kill the stranger who literally just killed you for a little bit. Your friend tells you that the person kicking the butt of your would-be murderer is your real enemy, and this making sense to you, you go out and kill your murderer's would-be murderer. Your assailant then gets up and glares at you until you drop the knife and show submission. This is enough to get your assailant to relent, and they decide not to murder you again, but on the condition you move into your family's basement (turns out your family had all died and no one is home) and never show your mug outside again so your former assailant doesn't have to see you. You gladly do so, as this is somehow a happy ending.

I've been told this plot isn't a misstep but makes perfect sense, yet somehow I'm still not convinced...

The movie was still the most fun I've had in probably a year at that point, so for that reason, it was a good movie to escape into for its timeslot. It has plenty of flaws as I note below, but I really liked it.

Pretty much everything about the Hollow Earth, them being too human-like, and the massive unexplained leap of technology simply had me watching it for the monster fights and Kong's story, which was pretty decent. Mind you I skipped KOTM and felt somehow it made absolutely no difference to Godzilla vs. Kong's story beyond a few things here and there. Making the monsters too human has always been a peeve of mine to begin with, so when Kong got his Sword of Omens despite his own family apparently being regular giant apes, [didn't watch Skull Island either.] from that basement, I mentally checked out.

I didn't even watch KOTM and I thought the main trio in GvK were absolutely worthless to the story. Between their pseudoscience and stupidity, I was hoping the guards would find them and kill off the characters to provide some sort of motivation for her father because their names are utterly forgettable. Something to actually subvert expectations and make the antagonists feel actually evil instead of , you know, feel like the good guys for wanting to kill off the kaiju for their demonstrated threat to the entire human race. Finding out that Serizawa's son was in it made it a tad worse since he's basically a nobody. He should've been the main antagonist instead of that generic Hammer CEO knockoff from Iron Man 2.

They could've easily gone down the Miki Saegusa route with her and did something interesting instead of them acting like the main human protagonists of every Transformers movie that gawks like gaping morons at all the carnage while finding themselves always conveniently in the middle of the conflict. Yet somehow, GvK, story-wise, managed to make every single Michael Bay Transformers movie feel like high art by comparison.

But it was really fun, though.

[Vakanai]

Imagine if you would that you're off to visit family accompanied by some friends, largely minding your own business, but on the way there some stranger shows up and beats you down and knocks you out. Eventually you manage to make it to your family's house, but no one's home. Still shook up from the random attack and beating you took you go to the kitchen to grab a knife just to feel a little safer, only to have your assailant from earlier bust down the door and proceed to beat you down and stomp you so terribly your heart stops beating. Luckily one of the friends you brought along happens to be an EMT and manages to get your heart beating again. As you awaken another of your friends points out that your assailant has an assailant of their own, who is proceeding to try and kill the stranger who literally just killed you for a little bit. Your friend tells you that the person kicking the butt of your would-be murderer is your real enemy, and this making sense to you, you go out and kill your murderer's would-be murderer. Your assailant then gets up and glares at you until you drop the knife and show submission. This is enough to get your assailant to relent, and they decide not to murder you again, but on the condition you move into your family's basement (turns out your family had all died and no one is home) and never show your mug outside again so your former assailant doesn't have to see you. You gladly do so, as this is somehow a happy ending.

I've been told this plot isn't a misstep but makes perfect sense, yet somehow I'm still not convinced...

The movie was still the most fun I've had in probably a year at that point, so for that reason, it was a good movie to escape into for its timeslot. It has plenty of flaws as I note below, but I really liked it.

Pretty much everything about the Hollow Earth, them being too human-like, and the massive unexplained leap of technology simply had me watching it for the monster fights and Kong's story, which was pretty decent. Mind you I skipped KOTM and felt somehow it made absolutely no difference to Godzilla vs. Kong's story beyond a few things here and there. Making the monsters too human has always been a peeve of mine to begin with, so when Kong got his Sword of Omens despite his own family apparently being regular giant apes, [didn't watch Skull Island either.] from that basement, I mentally checked out.

I didn't even watch KOTM and I thought the main trio in GvK were absolutely worthless to the story. Between their pseudoscience and stupidity, I was hoping the guards would find them and kill off the characters to provide some sort of motivation for her father because their names are utterly forgettable. Something to actually subvert expectations and make the antagonists feel actually evil instead of , you know, feel like the good guys for wanting to kill off the kaiju for their demonstrated threat to the entire human race. Finding out that Serizawa's son was in it made it a tad worse since he's basically a nobody. He should've been the main antagonist instead of that generic Hammer CEO knockoff from Iron Man 2.

They could've easily gone down the Miki Saegusa route with her and did something interesting instead of them acting like the main human protagonists of every Transformers movie that gawks like gaping morons at all the carnage while finding themselves always conveniently in the middle of the conflict. Yet somehow, GvK, story-wise, managed to make every single Michael Bay Transformers movie feel like high art by comparison.

But it was really fun, though.

That's the difference between us, for you it was the most fun you had during a very un-fun point in history (pandemic). But for me the flaws prevented me from having any fun. It was just too damn crappy a movie. I couldn't enjoy it even if it was a better time in history. For right now? Basically I got to watch a crap movie while already experiencing a crap year. Nothing about the movie was fun to me, just a really out there more dumb than it needed to be movie that threw out the characterization of the previous movies to make Godzilla a villain for Kong and then have them end on "respectable" terms (bull!) as if one of them hadn't gone out of their way out of character to kill the other all film long because...MechaG somehow? Even though it had nothing to do with any of their conflict.
It just wasn't fun to me, and it's hard to wrap my head around how it was fun for anyone, unless you literally care about nothing but the fight scenes, Godzilla winning, and/or wanted Godzilla to be evil and antagonistic since 2014 anyways.