Should MechaGodzilla Return...?

[Zasraniec]

To those in favor of Mechagodzilla returning, how should it be explained that a machine that got totally destroyed got rebuilt without anyone knowing since everyone knows Apex for what they are now? Does the Mechagodzilla have to be the "same" one or perhaps a different one from space or something?

[Vakanai]

Honestly, at this point I'd much rather just have Jet Jaguar. We already reached peak silly with this franchise, so there's no reason not to anymore.

[Fiender]

I don't mind either way, as long as it's not just in the same 'goes berserk/ghidorah takes over' role again. I would like it if they don't ignore the fact this world apparently has mechs now, so, Moguera, Megalon, Gigan, so-on would totally work now.

[LegendZilla]

To those in favor of Mechagodzilla returning, how should it be explained that a machine that got totally destroyed got rebuilt without anyone knowing since everyone knows Apex for what they are now? Does the Mechagodzilla have to be the "same" one or perhaps a different one from space or something?

A 2.0 version of Mechagodzilla that’s an improvement over the original.

[Denis]

Would love to see him return, possibly being more heroic this time.

[dillonking55]

Would love to see him return, possibly being more heroic this time.

Yep! I like the idea of Mechagodzilla being a "good guy" the next time around. Maybe for the final MonsterVerse film.

Maybe MONARCH takes the scraps from the APEX MechaG & builds/improves on it (without the Ghidorah Skull & mind-meld, so it stays off Godzilla's radar).

Created as a backup/last resort if Godzilla was to ever fall in battle & humanity has to defend itself.

[Major sssspielberg!]

Honestly, at this point I'd much rather just have Jet Jaguar. We already reached peak silly with this franchise, so there's no reason not to anymore.

Never assume peak silly. Godzilla danced in '65 and was flying in '71.
In all seriousness, I could see Monarch or maybe the UN claiming Mecha-G and rebuilding it as a deterrent or to hunt Titans, Godzilla most of all. While APEX was the reason he was going nuts I still imagine the rest of the world being like "Screw that big jerk, Kong is in the Hollow Earth now so we don't have to worry about him, but Godzilla's actually attacked us. We have this Mechagodzilla now, we don't need to rely on a big wiggy lizard no more."

[Jermobooka]

Honestly, at this point I'd much rather just have Jet Jaguar. We already reached peak silly with this franchise, so there's no reason not to anymore.

“Vakanai: The Art Of Despising Fun And Entertainment”™

[Vakanai]

Honestly, at this point I'd much rather just have Jet Jaguar. We already reached peak silly with this franchise, so there's no reason not to anymore.

Never assume peak silly. Godzilla danced in '65 and was flying in '71.

Eh, I'd take it. I mean it's more a different sort of silly. It's a kind of silly that was consistent with itself. MV gives us a Goji that can be lifted up and survive a fall from like the ionosphere or whatever, and heat blast a hole to the hollow center of the earth, which is kind of inconsistent with previous entries, so...but now that we have all that over the top ridiculousness? I could go with a dancing and flying Godzilla, heck I'd welcome it. It'd be easier for me to enjoy the sort of silly the MV has become now if it were wrapped up in more camp. I like camp.

“Vakanai: The Art Of Despising Fun And Entertainment”™

...if you think Jet Jaguar wouldn't be fun we got a fight on our hands.

[goji89]

Honestly, at this point I'd much rather just have Jet Jaguar. We already reached peak silly with this franchise, so there's no reason not to anymore.

Never assume peak silly. Godzilla danced in '65 and was flying in '71.

Eh, I'd take it. I mean it's more a different sort of silly. It's a kind of silly that was consistent with itself. MV gives us a Goji that can be lifted up and survive a fall from like the ionosphere or whatever, and heat blast a hole to the hollow center of the earth, which is kind of inconsistent with previous entries, so...but now that we have all that over the top ridiculousness? I could go with a dancing and flying Godzilla, heck I'd welcome it. It'd be easier for me to enjoy the sort of silly the MV has become now if it were wrapped up in more camp. I like camp.

“Vakanai: The Art Of Despising Fun And Entertainment”™

...if you think Jet Jaguar wouldn't be fun we got a fight on our hands.

Godzilla also did kinda smile.... I don't know if thats campy but it was for me.

Hey Jaguar would be hella fun in the monsterverse.

[CrimsonBloodX]

Sure, why not? And yes, Mechagodzilla should be heroic if it returns.

[Lesko]

Why would I want to see something I just in GvK? Maybe if the MV goes and makes a bunch of sequels yeah maybe a different Mechagodzilla shows up but otherwise no. Especially since we just saw it.

[miguelnuva]

Mechagodzilla is one of the few characters that could return because we didn't get a true Godzilla vs Mechagodzilla and there is still a question of what if we were both at our best with no interference.

You could go the Super Mechagodzilla route or Monarch creates Kiryu as an ally to Godzilla.

[miguelnuva]

Fake Godzilla is another angle they could play with. Both MechaG and Ghidorah have plots for returning.

[MegaEvilSaurus666]

Honestly, at this point I'd much rather just have Jet Jaguar. We already reached peak silly with this franchise, so there's no reason not to anymore.

Never assume peak silly. Godzilla danced in '65 and was flying in '71.

Eh, I'd take it. I mean it's more a different sort of silly. It's a kind of silly that was consistent with itself. MV gives us a Goji that can be lifted up and survive a fall from like the ionosphere or whatever, and heat blast a hole to the hollow center of the earth, which is kind of inconsistent with previous entries, so...but now that we have all that over the top ridiculousness? I could go with a dancing and flying Godzilla, heck I'd welcome it. It'd be easier for me to enjoy the sort of silly the MV has become now if it were wrapped up in more camp. I like camp.

“Vakanai: The Art Of Despising Fun And Entertainment”™

...if you think Jet Jaguar wouldn't be fun we got a fight on our hands.

Embracing camp to that degree would be like giving up and throwing the whole series in the trash, to be completely honest. I think that the franchise as a whole needs to stay clear of the late 1960s to 1970s campy, children's stuff in mainstream, big budget, massive blockbusters. Godzilla is better as a serious franchise. Otherwise we wouldn't get stuff like Godzilla 2014 and Shin Godzilla, and those incarnations would have never been designed.

[Vakanai]

Never assume peak silly. Godzilla danced in '65 and was flying in '71.

Eh, I'd take it. I mean it's more a different sort of silly. It's a kind of silly that was consistent with itself. MV gives us a Goji that can be lifted up and survive a fall from like the ionosphere or whatever, and heat blast a hole to the hollow center of the earth, which is kind of inconsistent with previous entries, so...but now that we have all that over the top ridiculousness? I could go with a dancing and flying Godzilla, heck I'd welcome it. It'd be easier for me to enjoy the sort of silly the MV has become now if it were wrapped up in more camp. I like camp.

“Vakanai: The Art Of Despising Fun And Entertainment”™

...if you think Jet Jaguar wouldn't be fun we got a fight on our hands.

Embracing camp to that degree would be like giving up and throwing the whole series in the trash, to be completely honest. I think that the franchise as a whole needs to stay clear of the late 1960s to 1970s campy, children's stuff in mainstream, big budget, massive blockbusters. Godzilla is better as a serious franchise. Otherwise we wouldn't get stuff like Godzilla 2014 and Shin Godzilla, and those incarnations would have never been designed.

You do realize that I'm already convinced that they did give up and threw any attempt at "seriousness" in the trash right? Like I get that's an unpopular opinion here, and I'm done arguing about it, but telling me that adding camp would be like giving up on quality and throwing any serious attempt at a good movie in the trash doesn't work as an argument for me because in my opinion the last movie did exactly that very thing! And camp is not automatically bad when done well. Basically I'm just saying if this is going to continue to be brainless action with a veneer of comedy, they should at least do the comedy bits better, and camp could do that. Nor is it automatically all like the 60s-70s children stuff. There's modern examples of camp for adults. Hell, try to tell me that Deadpool isn't campy as hell and we got another fight on our hands.

I won't argue on the "giving up and thrown in the trash" of the MV writing anymore - I believe they already very much have done so and you don't. But I'll definitely argue on the notion that camp is some piece of childish shit from the bad days of the 60s-70s for kiddies only. Camp exists and is enjoyed just fine today. Like every other bit of comedy, it evolves over time too.

[MegaEvilSaurus666]

Eh, I'd take it. I mean it's more a different sort of silly. It's a kind of silly that was consistent with itself. MV gives us a Goji that can be lifted up and survive a fall from like the ionosphere or whatever, and heat blast a hole to the hollow center of the earth, which is kind of inconsistent with previous entries, so...but now that we have all that over the top ridiculousness? I could go with a dancing and flying Godzilla, heck I'd welcome it. It'd be easier for me to enjoy the sort of silly the MV has become now if it were wrapped up in more camp. I like camp.



...if you think Jet Jaguar wouldn't be fun we got a fight on our hands.

Embracing camp to that degree would be like giving up and throwing the whole series in the trash, to be completely honest. I think that the franchise as a whole needs to stay clear of the late 1960s to 1970s campy, children's stuff in mainstream, big budget, massive blockbusters. Godzilla is better as a serious franchise. Otherwise we wouldn't get stuff like Godzilla 2014 and Shin Godzilla, and those incarnations would have never been designed.

You do realize that I'm already convinced that they did give up and threw any attempt at "seriousness" in the trash right? Like I get that's an unpopular opinion here, and I'm done arguing about it, but telling me that adding camp would be like giving up on quality and throwing any serious attempt at a good movie in the trash doesn't work as an argument for me because in my opinion the last movie did exactly that very thing! And camp is not automatically bad when done well. Basically I'm just saying if this is going to continue to be brainless action with a veneer of comedy, they should at least do the comedy bits better, and camp could do that. Nor is it automatically all like the 60s-70s children stuff. There's modern examples of camp for adults. Hell, try to tell me that Deadpool isn't campy as hell and we got another fight on our hands.

I won't argue on the "giving up and thrown in the trash" of the MV writing anymore - I believe they already very much have done so and you don't. But I'll definitely argue on the notion that camp is some piece of childish poop from the bad days of the 60s-70s for kiddies only. Camp exists and is enjoyed just fine today. Like every other bit of comedy, it evolves over time too.

Whoa, chill out, man. I'm not even trying to start an argument, just offering my two cents into a discussion. We likely agree more here than we disagree.

It's difficult to make a truly well written, well thought out sequel to something as truly ridiculous as Godzilla vs. Kong. What I'm saying here is, embracing camp to the degree not fully seen since the Showa era would likely tarnish the MonsterVerse, in all forms. I'm trying to hold on to the little bit of seriousness this series has left, likely in vain. I'd like these to be more than big dumb popcorn movies.

Camp is a great way to ensure that general audiences regard Godzilla as utter nonsense once more. 2014 attempted to revitalize Godzilla and succeeded rather well, but I believe a string of complete absurdity will bring the franchise back down to 1975 or 2004 levels of exhaustion. Camp has a time and place, and I don't see the MonsterVerse as either the time or the place. To me, it's like if The Dark Knight trilogy was botched halfway and turned into an Adam West tribute. Like if the Heisei Gamera trilogy had Gamera flipping around like a gymnast, flying through space, and actively protecting children in Advent of Legion. I was far more interested in the premise of the first two movies, the story of Monarch, and the world's response to such monsters and disasters, but now that has almost entirely evaporated. It's frankly quite disappointing. And, you and I both know that a very campy movie wouldn't be done very well here considering the record. If a less serious film must be done, then Kong: Skull Island would be my ideal reference on how to execute that. All the flaws with that movie can be fixed relatively easily. It doesn't go completely stupid, all while being entertaining, intense, and fun overall.

I'm not going to even remotely suggest that Deadpool wasn't campy; who would? And it's part of why I just cannot get into the whole Deadpool thing, other than the constant 4th wall breaks. It's funny and all, but feels somewhat tacky to me. I don't know how to properly describe how I feel about those movies. Would I like that sort of thing in the MonsterVerse? Absolutely not.
And hold up, highlighted:
Except that's exactly how I feel about GKOTM and GvK. I don't think you know as much about me as you think you do.

[Vakanai]

Whoa, chill out, man. I'm not even trying to start an argument, just offering my two cents into a discussion. We likely agree more here than we disagree.

I don't get this. I get that text doesn't convey tone, but I don't feel like I should have to express that I can be calm and cool while still expressing hatred for a movie. Like, you can really just think something is complete crap without being super angry and emotional about it you know. Most of the time people online tell me to calm down, I'm perfectly calm and happy in that moment in real life. I guess were so used to criticism being expressed in anger that it's impossible for some people to separate the words from the emotion?

Seriously, I both hate GvK and am feeling very chill right now. I'm just chatting online and watching Mimic on TV, and I'm full of cake and hotdogs right now. Life's good.

It's difficult to make a truly well written, well thought out sequel to something as truly ridiculous as Godzilla vs. Kong. What I'm saying here is, embracing camp to the degree not fully seen since the Showa era would likely tarnish the MonsterVerse, in all forms. I'm trying to hold on to the little bit of seriousness this series has left, likely in vain. I'd like these to be more than big dumb popcorn movies.

I feel like people really have to stop crapping on camp at some point - it doesn't have to be like the old Godzilla movies or Adam West Batman, right? Like, there's such a thing as good modern camp. I mean, you've probably seen some campy movies made in the last 20 years that you love, and only just don't consider them to be campy because they don't suck and the assumption is just that camp sucks, yeah?

But I get wanting to hang onto the seriousness in this series, I do. But the difference is while you think it's likely in vain, I think it's already dead and cold and buried and rotted and eaten by worms at this point. There is no seriousness left in this series. There just isn't. So the only question is, if this series is going to be silly, and at this point it most definitely is, then what kind of silly do we want it to be?

I wish that these films were more than big dumb popcorn movies, but that time has come and passed. There'll be no more in the vein of G2014 or K:SI, no matter how I wish there could be.

Camp is a great way to ensure that general audiences regard Godzilla as utter nonsense once more.

They already do. GvK has made bank, but everyone not in this fandom is saying things like "Yeah it's a big dumb stupid movie, but it's supposed to be, it's a monster movie." I've literally read a sentiment just like that, said in full faith that monster movies are supposed to be dumb and only matter for the kaiju fights. I think GvK did as well as it did because after a year with no MCU or action blockbusters dumb big fights were what the audience were hungry for and needed right now. But, that means that they view Godzilla as utter nonsense already. Just entertaining nonsense.

2014 attempted to revitalize Godzilla and succeeded rather well, but I believe a string of complete absurdity will bring the franchise back down to 1975 or 2004 levels of exhaustion.

We're already in the absurd though. How many movies does it take to make a string? Just one more?

Camp has a time and place, and I don't see the MonsterVerse as either the time or the place.

I argued this same thing about completely mindless popcorn fluff movies, but the MV has gone full hog on that. What makes camp so much worse? Why is it the time for badly written dumb as sin action is everything MV movies, but not the time to be campy with it?

To me, it's like if The Dark Knight trilogy was botched halfway and turned into an Adam West tribute.

But this is nothing like The Dark Knight trilogy. I mean G2014 very much had that vibe, Batman Begins, but KotM and GvK? That's insulting to the Dark Knight. They're more like a poor man's generic MCU movie only worse.

Like if the Heisei Gamera trilogy had Gamera flipping around like a gymnast, flying through space, and actively protecting children in Advent of Legion.

Or if Godzilla survived re-entry to earth or heat beamed a hole to the very center of the earth?

I was far more interested in the premise of the first two movies, the story of Monarch, and the world's response to such monsters and disasters, but now that has almost entirely evaporated. It's frankly quite disappointing.

This we're in entire agreement on, except I'll admit that it has entirely evaporated. I think the biggest difference between us is that I've accepted that the serious, story driven era for this franchise is dead, while you're reluctant to let go of the hope that somehow it can find it's way back to the sort of tone we both preferred. It's good to have hope, but I just can't anymore.

And, you and I both know that a very campy movie wouldn't be done very well here considering the record. If a less serious film must be done, then Kong: Skull Island would be my ideal reference on how to execute that. All the flaws with that movie can be fixed relatively easily. It doesn't go completely stupid, all while being entertaining, intense, and fun overall.

This...yeah, you're absolutely right. Legendary as it currently is, is not a studio that can pull off camp. At least not intentionally.

I'm not going to even remotely suggest that Deadpool wasn't campy; who would? And it's part of why I just cannot get into the whole Deadpool thing, other than the constant 4th wall breaks. It's funny and all, but feels somewhat tacky to me. I don't know how to properly describe how I feel about those movies. Would I like that sort of thing in the MonsterVerse? Absolutely not.

To each their own - I find Deadpool to be a real hoot.

And hold up, highlighted:
Except that's exactly how I feel about GKOTM and GvK. I don't think you know as much about me as you think you do.

You're right, and I apologize. In recent weeks I've gotten used to being the only person here who will actively say a bad word about GvK, so I just assumed you probably liked it. My apologies.

[MegaEvilSaurus666]

This reply is a bit out of order, bear with me.

I don't get this. I get that text doesn't convey tone, but I don't feel like I should have to express that I can be calm and cool while still expressing hatred for a movie. Like, you can really just think something is complete crap without being super angry and emotional about it you know. Most of the time people online tell me to calm down, I'm perfectly calm and happy in that moment in real life. I guess were so used to criticism being expressed in anger that it's impossible for some people to separate the words from the emotion?

What got me was this right here.

Like I get that's an unpopular opinion here, and I'm done arguing about it, but telling me that adding camp would be like giving up on quality and throwing any serious attempt at a good movie in the trash doesn't work as an argument for me because in my opinion the last movie did exactly that very thing!

I'm not trying to start or continue an argument by any means. We're actually in agreement about a decent amount of this. Just a friendly discussion.

I argued this same thing about completely mindless popcorn fluff movies, but the MV has gone full hog on that. What makes camp so much worse? Why is it the time for badly written dumb as sin action is everything MV movies, but not the time to be campy with it?

It has never been the time for them. I've been saying this on these forums for about two years now. People regard the past two films as campy already. But this right here?

I could go with a dancing and flying Godzilla, heck I'd welcome it. It'd be easier for me to enjoy the sort of silly the MV has become now if it were wrapped up in more camp. I like camp.

This is what I'm disagreeing with. This would be bad camp. More dumb than what has been done so far, I hate to say. This would outright destroy the MonsterVerse. So that's why I don't get that first part of your last reply:

I feel like people really have to stop crapping on camp at some point - it doesn't have to be like the old Godzilla movies or Adam West Batman, right? Like, there's such a thing as good modern camp.

I was hoping that these movies would give Godzilla the same level of respect and seriousness that the Heisei Gamera trilogy gave to Gamera, but they simply did not. It even shows in the animations. Godzilla swings his arms like a man, for fuck's sake. The whole point of all of this, with the design itself and CGI rendering,, was to make Godzilla look and move more like a real creature (even suitmation doesn't have arm swinging), but they've forgotten everything this once stood for. And what's with stuff like "Over the Mountain (Across the Sea)" and "The Air That I Breathe" for Kong and whatnot? If these movies were so ridiculous from the start, I wouldn't care.

But this is nothing like The Dark Knight trilogy. I mean G2014 very much had that vibe, Batman Begins, but KotM and GvK? That's insulting to the Dark Knight. They're more like a poor man's generic MCU movie only worse.

There's a reason why I said this, I think you misunderstood:

Camp has a time and place, and I don't see the MonsterVerse as either the time or the place. To me, it's like if The Dark Knight trilogy was botched halfway and turned into an Adam West tribute. Like if the Heisei Gamera trilogy had Gamera flipping around like a gymnast, flying through space, and actively protecting children in Advent of Legion. I was far more interested in the premise of the first two movies

Again, we're in agreement. I'm not comparing GKOTM and GvK to the Dark Knight trilogy; that would indeed be an insult. G2014 is almost like The Dark Knight trilogy or Heisei Gamera trilogy by comparison to GKOTM or GVK, for example. Serious, relatively grounded, and doesn't break its own rules. Even K:SI was more consistent with G2014, I'd say. I'm saying that G2014 to GVK is almost like if the Dark Knight trilogy was botched halfway through and turned into a sort of dumb Adam West tribute (Adam West Batman isn't awful by itself, but really wouldn't fit with the Dark Knight at all). My point is, these past two movies are already regarded as campy by many fans. Clearly, they're meant to be nods to the old 1960s and 1970s films, too.

I'd like to at least see some minor course correction through retcons, and taking on a more convincing, consistent, and immersive tone. It's likely too much to ask, though. Pacific Rim feels more like genuine cinema than any part of GKOTM and GvK; I'd like sequels to make as much sense within themselves as Pacific Rim does, if not more.

I really don't want to see more of Godzilla blasting massive holes into the Hollow Earth with his atomic breath, or to ever see another bowing scene. Mocking Ghidorah's name with "gonorrhea" actually angered me. Serj Tankian's Blue Oyster Cult cover was like nails on a chalkboard after everything stupid in GKOTM. I don't want to see more movies where Kong is thrown into a building and barely dents it, or jumps across ships like he's weightless. These movies can be fun without being poorly written, badly executed, or entirely cheesy. Laughably bad, in a sense. I never would have thought that sequels to G2014 would be this way back in 2014. I was ready for a serious Godzilla series.

I think the biggest difference between us is that I've accepted that the serious, story driven era for this franchise is dead, while you're reluctant to let go of the hope that somehow it can find it's way back to the sort of tone we both preferred. It's good to have hope, but I just can't anymore.

I'm simply hoping to see it make some level of sense within itself. The serious aspect is almost entirely gone in my opinion, as opposed to being entirely gone. This series has had no issue with being very inconsistent, so I'm hoping that any future installments can be at least more competently put together. Inconsistent with the previous two, but for the better. They may never bring the feel of G2014 back, but we can at least have something spectacular and fun that takes itself more seriously than the previous two. The problem is, whenever these movies do something dumb, that sets the course for any sequels. The bar is lowered, and it sets the standard.

They already do. GvK has made bank, but everyone not in this fandom is saying things like "Yeah it's a big dumb stupid movie, but it's supposed to be, it's a monster movie." I've literally read a sentiment just like that, said in full faith that monster movies are supposed to be dumb and only matter for the kaiju fights. I think GvK did as well as it did because after a year with no MCU or action blockbusters dumb big fights were what the audience were hungry for and needed right now. But, that means that they view Godzilla as utter nonsense already. Just entertaining nonsense.

I get that. I just don't want to see Godzilla's reputation disintegrate into this any further. It would be far better if people enjoyed Godzilla movies for the quality of the writing, interesting stories, sense of scale, and so on, along with enjoying the giant monster battles. Having an interesting human cast with great acting isn't impossible. Godzilla 2014 and GvK get so close with Joe Brody and Jia respectively. Giant monster battles can be truly awesome without campy stuff like dancing around on another planet or performing martial arts moves (both examples really miss the point of what giant monsters are all about). Godzilla movies can be truly awesome without being riddled with utter nonsense. The movies would likely do better if they were fun and engaging, truly getting audiences invested in the story and keeping them at the edges of their seats, rather than being merely the "shut your brain off" type. None of the monster action would be lost, just done better, and without the fear of concepts like that "Mega Godzilla with Anatomech armor."

I assure you that concepts as stupid as that will make it into future installments if unchallenged, and then considered to be just "campy" to many fans who will eat up anything with the name "Godzilla" on it. ...But, it's no worse than Godzilla flying vs. Hedorah style, or tail sliding, right? People would try to defend it just like that if it made it in, I'm sure. Don't trust Legendary with campy stuff.

You're right, and I apologize. In recent weeks I've gotten used to being the only person here who will actively say a bad word about GvK, so I just assumed you probably liked it. My apologies.

I understand where you're coming from. We get into these long-winded discussions and such all the time. I believe I defended a point of yours before, specifically about Godzilla's behavior in the movie. You're not the only one who says anything critical of it on here, don't worry. I just haven't been on here as regularly, because I've said almost everything I've wanted to say.

And finally, after all of that, should Mechagodzilla return? I'd rather see where things go with the Hollow Earth, Kong and Jia, etc. Please, no more mechanical monsters for now. Set up a villain for Godzilla in the Kong movie. Return to the mecha idea later on. Jet Jaguar would be okay if not done in a completely stupid way.

[CyberZilla]

Not sure if it’s been suggested but a Kiryu-inspired Mechagodzilla made with the bones of Dagon would be interesting. Godzilla interacting with it, attacking it, but Dagon’s genetic memory acknowledging Godzilla as another of its kind and fighting its programming/feeling conflicted? I could get behind it.

I think overall Mecha-G should return (my profile makes that obvious lol), but give it some time since we just had a big movie with him as the ultimate antagonist.