Discussion of the Titular Fights: Godzilla vs. Kong

[Showzilla]

I don't think Tiamat killed that Kong. I think Tiamat was just there when Godzilla showed up.

Also if Kong fans want a bone, Kong would have likely beaten pre Muto Prime Godzilla.

no, the author confirmed it, Tiamat killed him....from the looks of it, she killed him on land.

Was that a tweet because Kong is the last Kong by 1973 and Tiamat doesn't wake up until 2019. That seems like a wierd unesscary retcon.

by his own words, it was a "long time ago", so it predates modern human records.

[miguelnuva]

no, the author confirmed it, Tiamat killed him....from the looks of it, she killed him on land.

Was that a tweet because Kong is the last Kong by 1973 and Tiamat doesn't wake up until 2019. That seems like a wierd unesscary retcon.

by his own words, it was a "long time ago", so it predates modern human records.

I'd be curious to read that because Tiamat was in Georgia when Ghidorah wakes her up, that seems odd Godzilla would miss something like that.

Tiamat should be an Alpha level Titan considering all of that she did in that case.

[Showzilla]

Was that a tweet because Kong is the last Kong by 1973 and Tiamat doesn't wake up until 2019. That seems like a wierd unesscary retcon.

by his own words, it was a "long time ago", so it predates modern human records.

I'd be curious to read that because Tiamat was in Georgia when Ghidorah wakes her up, that seems odd Godzilla would miss something like that.

Tiamat should be an Alpha level Titan considering all of that she did in that case.

I think she settles down their after Godzilla kills Ghidorah.





and I wouldn't be surprised, even outside of her element, she killed a fully grown kong and IN her element, she was able to give an ,admittedly tired and hungry, Godzilla a run for his money until he dragged her into the under water cave and forced her to submit.

[miguelnuva]

by his own words, it was a "long time ago", so it predates modern human records.

I'd be curious to read that because Tiamat was in Georgia when Ghidorah wakes her up, that seems odd Godzilla would miss something like that.

Tiamat should be an Alpha level Titan considering all of that she did in that case.

I think she settles down their after Godzilla kills Ghidorah.





and I wouldn't be surprised, even outside of her element, she killed a fully grown kong and IN her element, she was able to give an ,admittedly tired and hungry, Godzilla a run for his money until he dragged her into the under water cave and forced her to submit.

That doesn’t really say she didn't drown him, just that the skull ended up back on land.

[Zasraniec]

Can someone compile all of the established quotes of Wingard stating the obvious superiority of Godzilla over Kong? That way whenever we see a Kong fan using the same talking points they can easily be debunked. Although to be fair I have to say it is Wingard's fault for not making some of this stuff more clear. To a casual viewer that is completely unaware of the director's clarifications and only going by what they see in a movie it can be hard to think otherwise. I can see why it would be very easy to think Kong could have a shot, no matter how small at killing Godzilla. I also see how some could think Mechagodzilla is superior to Godzilla just by seeing what is seen in the movie. Wingard should have made some of this stuff a bit more clear in the movie.

Godzilla being weakened by fighting Kong before fighting Mechagodzilla couldn't be anymore clear.

Did the Hollow Earth buster weaken Godzilla is the only thing the movie didn't make clear.

It might be clear to you but there are a lot of people all over the place that just go "Mechagodzilla owned Godzilla" with zero context or understanding. I guess when you have a movie with such mass appeal that is bound to happen. What I am saying is what might be clear to us fans is not clear to the average moviegoer that went to see this.

[Showzilla]

I'd be curious to read that because Tiamat was in Georgia when Ghidorah wakes her up, that seems odd Godzilla would miss something like that.

Tiamat should be an Alpha level Titan considering all of that she did in that case.

I think she settles down their after Godzilla kills Ghidorah.





and I wouldn't be surprised, even outside of her element, she killed a fully grown kong and IN her element, she was able to give an ,admittedly tired and hungry, Godzilla a run for his money until he dragged her into the under water cave and forced her to submit.

That doesn’t really say she didn't drown him, just that the skull ended up back on land.

I mean, she didn't drop any of the other bodies on land

[miguelnuva]

Can someone compile all of the established quotes of Wingard stating the obvious superiority of Godzilla over Kong? That way whenever we see a Kong fan using the same talking points they can easily be debunked. Although to be fair I have to say it is Wingard's fault for not making some of this stuff more clear. To a casual viewer that is completely unaware of the director's clarifications and only going by what they see in a movie it can be hard to think otherwise. I can see why it would be very easy to think Kong could have a shot, no matter how small at killing Godzilla. I also see how some could think Mechagodzilla is superior to Godzilla just by seeing what is seen in the movie. Wingard should have made some of this stuff a bit more clear in the movie.

Godzilla being weakened by fighting Kong before fighting Mechagodzilla couldn't be anymore clear.

Did the Hollow Earth buster weaken Godzilla is the only thing the movie didn't make clear.

It might be clear to you but there are a lot of people all over the place that just go "Mechagodzilla owned Godzilla" with zero context or understanding. I guess when you have a movie with such mass appeal that is bound to happen. What I am saying is what might be clear to us fans is not clear to the average moviegoer that went to see this.

You'd be surprised how man clear as day things people miss in movies. The fact that Godzilla fights anything before fighting Mechagodzilla should tell people he's not at 100%.

Unless Godzilla would have knocked out Kong in 30 seconds, he expended energy and effort againts Kong, thus he's not at his best.

[gottatalktothefake]

Do you all see those youtubers who think that kong would kill destroyah and Ghidorah at the same time?

[Voyager]

Do you all see those youtubers who think that kong would kill destroyah and Ghidorah at the same time?

Any sources/links? I really want to see this. The biggest Kong wank ever.

[Vandarker]

I honestly don't understand why some people have such a hard time accepting that statement. Kong's axe cut through Godzilla's skin but it clearly didn't hurt him. Godzilla had no trouble supporting his weight on the wounded leg, running around and stomping the poop out of Kong. He only showed signs of pain when Kong punched him in the wound, but even then it was closer to annoyance. That's hardly what you call an injury.

And the skull is usually one of the most durable parts in an animal's body. Godzilla is built like a bear plus an alligator, so it isn't a stretch to assume that his skull is durable as hell even when compared to the rest of his body.

The charged axe barely cut through Godzilla's skin, so it's not a surprise that it just bounced off his hardened skull. If the charged axe hits him in one of his weaker spot like the gills, it may be able to hurt him and cause him some pain, but I doubt it will be enough to kill him. Nor will it be enough for Kong to gain an upper hand against him.

Added in 4 minutes 20 seconds:
It was probably Wingard's intent all along to make this a fight that Kong can't win, which is pretty evident from the stuff he says in the commentaries. What the director says is pretty much the Word of God when it comes to stuff like this, so there's no use arguing against it. If Wingard says that the axe hit Godzilla in the head and didn't hurt him, it's a fact.

Because eliminating any possibility Kong could deal a critical blow with the ax on Godzilla when we already saw said ax cut through his skin on his leg much less something like sensitive gills or something feels too much like an absolute statement to make. Also actual stuff that happens in the medium IMO>Word of God, as a Dragon Ball fan sometimes WOG can only go so far lol

Kong flying through the sky with his full bodyweight reinforcing the force of the blow with a supercharged axe right to the dome is what happens in the medium, Kong could get no more of a perfect shot and it did nothing. The whole “but if it hits the gills....” thing is grasping and Adam saying Kong could never down Godzilla is in line with what was shown. Either way, the gill “weakness” is overblown and judging by Godzilla in GvK, probably forgotten.

The gill=weakness thing is still valid and official, there was a HBO Max promo detailing the strengths/weaknesses for Godzilla and Kong, and among Godzilla's weaknesses were his gills.

But the thing is, WoG is all we have to rely on because we never see Kong dealing a critical blow to Godzilla in the actual movie. It's fully possible that Kong can hurt Godzilla if he manages to hit him in the gills with the charged axe. After all, Wingard never said Kong can't hurt Godzilla at all. But he did say that Kong can't even come close to killing him, so we can assume that whatever damage Kong deals to Godzilla, it isn't going to be fatal, and that Godzilla is going to win in the end.

And Godzilla isn't that slow. We actually see him dodging Kong's axe strike at the beginning of the battle. Godzilla isn't going to allow Kong to land a blatant attack on his weak spot.

[Zasraniec]

Do you all see those youtubers who think that kong would kill destroyah and Ghidorah at the same time?

Not that in particular but yeah I see stuff like that all the time. That's why I think Wingard should have been clearer with how he meant some of his stuff to go in film. I am wondering if he did but perhaps a lot of it got cut. If not he might just be telling us fans what we want to hear so he can have his cake and eat it too. Although in my opinion I think he was very ambitious and we already know he wanted some things to appear in GvK that did not make it like showing us some of the Titans that KotM set up and that it was indeed the studio and financial limitations that stopped him was doing everything he wanted to do. I still think he did great giving what he had to work with but I can't help but wonder what it would be like if Wingard was able to go bananas and include his full vision.

[Vandarker]

so, the latest Kong Stan news....they just found out Dominion exists.....and are hyped about hearing a kong win.....but hate being told he barely beat an adolescent Godzilla.......and was then promptly cut down in his prime by Tiamat......who Godzilla beat while exhausted.

Yeah, it's a pretty dumb argument because its been confirmed that KOTM~GvK is stronger than his 2014 self, and that Godzilla constantly evolves and adapts. Presumably, Godzilla losing his territory to that Kong individual happened before Godzilla's ancient confrontation with Ghidorah, so it's right to assume that he was much weaker than his current self, and possibly weaker than his 2014 self as well.

Their argument is pretty dumb, but I also think that it's partially the author's fault for not making that fact clearer. We know that Godzilla grew more powerful over the years, but it's hard for a non-hardcore fan to infer that from reading the comic alone.

Can someone compile all of the established quotes of Wingard stating the obvious superiority of Godzilla over Kong? That way whenever we see a Kong fan using the same talking points they can easily be debunked. Although to be fair I have to say it is Wingard's fault for not making some of this stuff more clear. To a casual viewer that is completely unaware of the director's clarifications and only going by what they see in a movie it can be hard to think otherwise. I can see why it would be very easy to think Kong could have a shot, no matter how small at killing Godzilla. I also see how some could think Mechagodzilla is superior to Godzilla just by seeing what is seen in the movie. Wingard should have made some of this stuff a bit more clear in the movie.

Actually, it seems that Wingard did put a lot of thought into the matter. He says that they tested out various versions of the Godzilla vs MechaG fight, and that initially, Godzillla was going to put up a better fight 1-vs-1. But ultimately, that just didn't work out, so they went with Godzilla one-sidedly getting his ass kicked. Which is understandable because MechaG is designed to combat Godzilla, and he has the benefit of prior knowledge of his opponent (something that Godzilla lacked in this fight) so it's only natural that he's able to dominate a tired, spent Godzilla in 1-vs-1. Also Godzilla had to be in real danger in order to make the team-up necessary.

And as for your question:
- Godzilla was never afraid for a second that he was going to lose any of these fights.
- Godzilla is near unkillable, ​and the only thing that came close to killing him in the entire movie was Mechagodzilla's Kiss of Death. It's the only way he could imagine Godzilla getting defeated. (although he does make it a bit ambiguous, as to whether Godzilla would've been really killed by the Kiss of Death or not)
- The ocean battle was a life-and-death struggle for Kong, but it wasn't for Godzilla. Godzilla was simply playing and having fun, while Kong was desperately trying to survive.
- In the first part of the HK battle, Godzilla was enjoying the fight. He wasn't worried about Kong, and he knew that he was going to win because he has no problem killing Kong.
- After Godzilla got hit in the face with the axe, he still knows that he's going to win, but the difference is that he's pissed now, he's annoyed and he's not taking it easy anymore.
- Godzilla could've killed Kong, but he didn't.
- At the end, Kong acknowledges that Godzilla is the boss and shows him respect, but he doesn't submit to him, which Godzilla also respects.

[jrock]

I still think if Kong managed to plant that axe right into Godzilla's gills, Godzilla was going to have serious problems.

[Jermobooka]

I just realized that, in that Kong POV shot with him grabbing Goji’s head, Kong knees Godzilla’s head which makes him shoot at that building, not Goji moving his head around.

Goddamn, I love the “first round” of the HK fight. Such a badass showing for Kong.

[Desghidorah]

HK fights in general are exactly what I'd want from a proper fight involving Godzilla. Not a curb stomp where the beam just insta-gibs anything, but a big knockdown, drag out brawl. Even with Godzilla definitively winning, Kong never came off as a chump and kept his dignity even after getting battered down.

[Monke]

I just realized that, in that Kong POV shot with him grabbing Goji’s head, Kong knees Godzilla’s head which makes him shoot at that building, not Goji moving his head around.

Goddamn, I love the “first round” of the HK fight. Such a badass showing for Kong.

Also when Kong does the superman punch off the building, as soon as he makes contact with Big G, G briefly fires atomic breath into the ground

[Thatguy4683]

I just realized that, in that Kong POV shot with him grabbing Goji’s head, Kong knees Godzilla’s head which makes him shoot at that building, not Goji moving his head around.

Goddamn, I love the “first round” of the HK fight. Such a badass showing for Kong.

Also when Kong does the superman punch off the building, as soon as he makes contact with Big G, G briefly fires atomic breath into the ground

Oh crap, I didn’t even realize it until I looked back on the footage, that’s some amazing detail

[Major sssspielberg!]

Honestly I didn't expect the movie to fall so squarely on Godzilla's side as far as power goes. It was nice though, even with the Magic Plot Axe™ Godzilla really did give Kong the business the whole movie.
I was half expecting Kong to have some kind of radiation-resistance that would have protected him from Godzilla's beam or something.
As a sidebar, I was thinking about how cool it would have been if Mechagodzilla factored in from the beginning, and the humans had to try and 'convince' Kong to fight Godzilla with Mecha-G, only for Kong to flip the script and team up with Godzilla at the end, because he realizes Mecha-G was part Ghidorah and that's why Godzilla was spazzing in the first place.

[Zasraniec]

so, the latest Kong Stan news....they just found out Dominion exists.....and are hyped about hearing a kong win.....but hate being told he barely beat an adolescent Godzilla.......and was then promptly cut down in his prime by Tiamat......who Godzilla beat while exhausted.

Yeah, it's a pretty dumb argument because its been confirmed that KOTM~GvK is stronger than his 2014 self, and that Godzilla constantly evolves and adapts. Presumably, Godzilla losing his territory to that Kong individual happened before Godzilla's ancient confrontation with Ghidorah, so it's right to assume that he was much weaker than his current self, and possibly weaker than his 2014 self as well.

Their argument is pretty dumb, but I also think that it's partially the author's fault for not making that fact clearer. We know that Godzilla grew more powerful over the years, but it's hard for a non-hardcore fan to infer that from reading the comic alone.

Can someone compile all of the established quotes of Wingard stating the obvious superiority of Godzilla over Kong? That way whenever we see a Kong fan using the same talking points they can easily be debunked. Although to be fair I have to say it is Wingard's fault for not making some of this stuff more clear. To a casual viewer that is completely unaware of the director's clarifications and only going by what they see in a movie it can be hard to think otherwise. I can see why it would be very easy to think Kong could have a shot, no matter how small at killing Godzilla. I also see how some could think Mechagodzilla is superior to Godzilla just by seeing what is seen in the movie. Wingard should have made some of this stuff a bit more clear in the movie.

Actually, it seems that Wingard did put a lot of thought into the matter. He says that they tested out various versions of the Godzilla vs MechaG fight, and that initially, Godzillla was going to put up a better fight 1-vs-1. But ultimately, that just didn't work out, so they went with Godzilla one-sidedly getting his ass kicked. Which is understandable because MechaG is designed to combat Godzilla, and he has the benefit of prior knowledge of his opponent (something that Godzilla lacked in this fight) so it's only natural that he's able to dominate a tired, spent Godzilla in 1-vs-1. Also Godzilla had to be in real danger in order to make the team-up necessary.

And as for your question:
- Godzilla was never afraid for a second that he was going to lose any of these fights.
- Godzilla is near unkillable, ​and the only thing that came close to killing him in the entire movie was Mechagodzilla's Kiss of Death. It's the only way he could imagine Godzilla getting defeated. (although he does make it a bit ambiguous, as to whether Godzilla would've been really killed by the Kiss of Death or not)
- The ocean battle was a life-and-death struggle for Kong, but it wasn't for Godzilla. Godzilla was simply playing and having fun, while Kong was desperately trying to survive.
- In the first part of the HK battle, Godzilla was enjoying the fight. He wasn't worried about Kong, and he knew that he was going to win because he has no problem killing Kong.
- After Godzilla got hit in the face with the axe, he still knows that he's going to win, but the difference is that he's pissed now, he's annoyed and he's not taking it easy anymore.
- Godzilla could've killed Kong, but he didn't.
- At the end, Kong acknowledges that Godzilla is the boss and shows him respect, but he doesn't submit to him, which Godzilla also respects.

I think you misunderstood my post. I wasn't saying that I personally thought Mechagodzilla and Kong were equals or superiors to Godzilla, I was saying I could see how an average viewer who is not a fan of either character can think that. You typical average movie goer isn't going to be thinking logically and wondering why it seems like Godzilla is playing with Kong. No, they are just going to think Godzilla won that fight and Mechagodzilla won against Godzilla so that makes him better. That doesn't make it true obviously but that is how regular movie goers watch movies. GvK is definitely a mainstream action flick not a layered philosophical drama so it makes sense that generally the audience is only there for mindless action. For the record I am aware of Godzilla's original fight draft with Mechagodzilla and if you ask me it should have stayed that way but Kong has to artificially made to be useful somehow.

[Showzilla]

Because eliminating any possibility Kong could deal a critical blow with the ax on Godzilla when we already saw said ax cut through his skin on his leg much less something like sensitive gills or something feels too much like an absolute statement to make. Also actual stuff that happens in the medium IMO>Word of God, as a Dragon Ball fan sometimes WOG can only go so far lol

Kong flying through the sky with his full bodyweight reinforcing the force of the blow with a supercharged axe right to the dome is what happens in the medium, Kong could get no more of a perfect shot and it did nothing. The whole “but if it hits the gills....” thing is grasping and Adam saying Kong could never down Godzilla is in line with what was shown. Either way, the gill “weakness” is overblown and judging by Godzilla in GvK, probably forgotten.

The gill=weakness thing is still valid and official, there was a HBO Max promo detailing the strengths/weaknesses for Godzilla and Kong, and among Godzilla's weaknesses were his gills.

But the thing is, WoG is all we have to rely on because we never see Kong dealing a critical blow to Godzilla in the actual movie. It's fully possible that Kong can hurt Godzilla if he manages to hit him in the gills with the charged axe. After all, Wingard never said Kong can't hurt Godzilla at all. But he did say that Kong can't even come close to killing him, so we can assume that whatever damage Kong deals to Godzilla, it isn't going to be fatal, and that Godzilla is going to win in the end.

And Godzilla isn't that slow. We actually see him dodging Kong's axe strike at the beginning of the battle. Godzilla isn't going to allow Kong to land a blatant attack on his weak spot.

Can I get a link to that promo?