Toho Kingdom

Jermobooka wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:36 pm Just rewatched the Hong Kong fight and...wow. Easily my favorite kaiju fight ever.

Kong is such a badass. Moreso than Goji here. That skreeonking dropkick and the way he tore the axe from the building...just...so good.

Y’know...Kong is starting to creep up on Goji’s spot for my number one favorite kaiju. Blasphemous, i know, but there’s something so endearing about the big guy, especially after GvK

I love the moment where he throws the antenna to distract Godzilla in a "fetch boy" type fashion before slamming him into a building. The HK fight took full advantage of his intelligence and agility and I adored it.

Also, looking at all of the concept designs makes me glad that we good what we got for MG. I feel like it strikes a nice middle line between vaguely resembling Godzilla but also not being a straight up mechanical carbon copy.

Jermobooka wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:36 pm Just rewatched the Hong Kong fight and...wow. Easily my favorite kaiju fight ever.

Kong is such a badass. Moreso than Goji here. That skreeonking dropkick and the way he tore the axe from the building...just...so good.

Y’know...Kong is starting to creep up on Goji’s spot for my number one favorite kaiju. Blasphemous, i know, but there’s something so endearing about the big guy, especially after GvK

Not even close for me. An MV without Godzilla would be pretty much dead for me. Kong is a sweet monster but still boring as hell as a concept. A giant gorilla? Compared to a literally-eternal, regenerative nuclear dragon that keeps the balance of nature? Not in my world.

Where do you think Godzilla and Kong will fight next time they appear in a movie together? They fought in Hokkaido, Shizuoka Prefecture, The Tasman sea and finally Hong Kong.

Eh, they should be teaming up proper about 2-3 flicks from now — it doesn’t really matter where.

MegaEvilSaurus666 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:43 pm I want to know about the Mega-Godzilla thing to actually know the truth behind it. Was it a toy gimmick, or an actual plot point for the movie at some earlier point in production? The latter actually seems likely to me, because the armor had an actual name, Kong's axe changed, the Skull Crawler's colors changed, and the Warbat was called Nozuki. Full characters were cut. Hours of filming was not used. The Tasman sea battle was changed, because the final CGI for the punch is different from the old leak. That makes me question how much CGI was redone. The Playmates toys have battle damage and Godzilla has a radio tower accessory. Those could he gimmicks, or something else because the movie was changed.

(It kinda looks like there was a "Mega" Mechagodzilla figure planned that seemed to have more articulation than the "giant" one, but I could be wrong. The tail has more red on it as well. That might come out later? Strange.)

Thegarbagemonster wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:59 pm Personally, I couldn't care less about the armour, lol. I wouldn't have liked Godzilla to have a life support armour in the film, and I wouldn't have bought the figure due to its size.

It's absolutely a terrible idea, but wouldn't you like to know if that terrible idea was ever legitimately considered for the movie? I want to know who came up with it so that I know who should never be allowed to touch the Godzilla franchise again.

Edit: I'm surprised nobody acknowledged the link I shared. Has everyone already seen these or something?

I'm really glad we got the design in the film, in my opinion it blows these concepts out of the water. That top one looks like it was built as a mecha of the fish like 2014 concept art rather than the Legendary Goji.

Video discussion says everything:

MrGameguy wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:47 pm Video discussion says everything:

TLDW

What was the consensus?

daveblackeye15 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:29 pm I kinda like the top design. I do love the version we got just towers over him and the longer arms make sense. Makes it harder for Godzilla to fight it.

I can imagine a MechaG basically holding Godzilla's head with his massive claws while Goji pathetically struggles to reach him. Lol. Just like a school bully.

obZen wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:34 pm Eh, they should be teaming up proper about 2-3 flicks from now — it doesn’t really matter where.

I'm sure Godzilla and Kong will fight again. I'm guessing the next battle will be more orchestrated since their more or less on good terms after the events of GvK. Something will actually have to force the two to fight this time around.

Perhaps the death of a loved one?(Godzilla kills Jia, unintentionally)

ernesth100 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:32 am

daveblackeye15 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:29 pm I kinda like the top design. I do love the version we got just towers over him and the longer arms make sense. Makes it harder for Godzilla to fight it.

I can imagine a MechaG basically holding Godzilla's head with his massive claws while Goji pathetically struggles to reach him. Lol. Just like a school bully.

obZen wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:34 pm Eh, they should be teaming up proper about 2-3 flicks from now — it doesn’t really matter where.

I'm sure Godzilla and Kong will fight again. I'm guessing the next battle will be more orchestrated since their more or less on good terms after the events of GvK. Something will actually have to force the two to fight this time around.

Perhaps the death of a loved one?(Godzilla kills Jia, unintentionally)

They'll open the next film with a Sparring match. I think we're done seeing them go one on one in the MV.

I'm excited for the prospect of them being allies much more than any notion of a rematch. Feels redundant honestly, having Kong to be Godzilla's craftier occasional hand of help is such a dope concept to expand upon. Seeing both, Mothra and Rodan join forces against a threat of some kind would be glorious.

Added in 2 minutes 23 seconds:

ernesth100 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:32 am

daveblackeye15 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:29 pm I kinda like the top design. I do love the version we got just towers over him and the longer arms make sense. Makes it harder for Godzilla to fight it.

I can imagine a MechaG basically holding Godzilla's head with his massive claws while Goji pathetically struggles to reach him. Lol. Just like a school bully.

obZen wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:34 pm Eh, they should be teaming up proper about 2-3 flicks from now — it doesn’t really matter where.

I'm sure Godzilla and Kong will fight again. I'm guessing the next battle will be more orchestrated since their more or less on good terms after the events of GvK. Something will actually have to force the two to fight this time around.

Perhaps the death of a loved one?(Godzilla kills Jia, unintentionally)

MG being so imposing compared to Godzilla is my favorite aspect of his design here. It feels like he was aggressively made to be the "better" Godzilla in a petty manner which more than fits.

You guys think Kong could learn karate or something of the sort? Or would that be a bit too much of a stretch?

He dropkicked G. It's not a completely unreasonable leap to have them use sign language and photos to teach him some new moves. Lol. I kinda just want see Kong doing some cool blocks and kicks.

MegaEvilSaurus666 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:04 am The Showa era films could stand alone with each having their own unique appeal, but the MonsterVerse is/was meant to be a film series with continuity, lore, reoccurring characters, world building, and so on, as soon as they decided to do that.

Hmm, well Godzilla 2014 was originally a stand alone film. Kong Skill island was originally as well, but had monarch inserted when it became a thing. Godzilla 2, and Godzilla vs Kong were created around the same time, and despite that, it’s sort of as though both are their own thing. I’d also reckon that all four of the monsterverse films can be enjoyed separately and independently of one another. Anything that needs explaining isn’t some big two hour thing needing complex understanding:

“Who is Ghidorah,”. “Oh he’s some evil space monster that Godzilla, Rodan, and Mothra fought”

^^^The above comment can be applied to both Godzilla vs Gigan and Godzilla vs Kong.

If you aren’t into “lore” and world building the films are just as easily watchable independently because they are so distinct from each other.

I like how this concept is a bit beefier compared to the final design.

LSD Jellyfish wrote: ↑Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:06 am

MegaEvilSaurus666 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:04 am The Showa era films could stand alone with each having their own unique appeal, but the MonsterVerse is/was meant to be a film series with continuity, lore, reoccurring characters, world building, and so on, as soon as they decided to do that.

Hmm, well Godzilla 2014 was originally a stand alone film. Kong Skill island was originally as well, but had monarch inserted when it became a thing. Godzilla 2, and Godzilla vs Kong were created around the same time, and despite that, it’s sort of as though both are their own thing. I’d also reckon that all four of the monsterverse films can be enjoyed separately and independently of one another. Anything that needs explaining isn’t some big two hour thing needing complex understanding:

“Who is Ghidorah,”. “Oh he’s some evil space monster that Godzilla, Rodan, and Mothra fought”

^^^The above comment can be applied to both Godzilla vs Gigan and Godzilla vs Kong.

If you aren’t into “lore” and world building the films are just as easily watchable independently because they are so distinct from each other.

Kotm adds to Godzilla's side of Godzilla vs Kong at least.

To be honest, Godzilla's armour was only on his back. I don't think it would have helped protect him against Kong, otherwise it'd cover his head and belly. I think it's more likely to have been life support for this reason.

It could very well just be a toy gimmick. Perhaps Kong would have had armour too, but they never made a prototype for it. There's a few strange things about this line- Kong's glowing eyes, the green HEAV with MG that never appears in the film, the fact there's a Godzilla X-Treme but not a Kong X-Treme...

It’s funny, I have rewatched the HK fight a bunch too and it really baits you into thinking Kong is “winning” in the beginning but he really never was, no matter how many times he hit Godzilla. He blitzed Godzilla at the beginning, purely because big G just wanted the spam his AB and why not, one square hit would end the fight. It was great how Kong could manoeuvre around the buildings the dodge etc but it kind of showed that Godzilla was far superior as, by the end, as soon as Kong made the mistake of getting too close and grappling with Godzilla, it was all over. I have a feeling if Godzilla went h2h on Kong straight away, the fight would have been 1/4 the length. The supercharged axe hit to the head was MASSIVE, like Kong could never have asked for a better attack on Godzilla and it theoretically should have damn killed him, yet big G just stood up and literally shook it off before entering hunt mode. His durability is insane and seems to go up every movie. Kong literally has nowhere near enough firepower to take Godzilla out but it was crafted so well that to casual’s, it was a pretty even fight until the end. When you look at all the hits Kong got on Godzilla and how devastating the axe hit was... the last mauling Godzilla gave Kong was literally only a few hits but it damn well killed him, showing the enormous strength gap.
I really don’t think/hope they don’t fight again in another movie because this was it, there’s no need for more. Have them team up sure but why beat a dead horse, it was done and done masterfully. Keep in mind, if there is a Godzilla 3, I’m sure his power will go up yet again. If he gets the Red Spiral Ray and a naturally Atomic Pulse, it can’t even be done again considering what Godzilla did to Kong with tooth and claw in about 30 seconds. Nope, have there be an alliance of sorts but their rivalry is over.

ebirah_scampi wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:35 pm I'm really glad we got the design in the film, in my opinion it blows these concepts out of the water. That top one looks like it was built as a mecha of the fish like 2014 concept art rather than the Legendary Goji.

The design in the movie is better than those concepts (it really doesn't take much to be better than those), but still seems to be missing things. Its proportions still look off to me.
You're completely right about that, though. My first thought is that it had a weird Bionicle look, but now I'm seeing that and fish Godzilla.

MorgolKing wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:16 pm I like these designs....are these what were used in the film. Godzilla's head doesn't look small here.

It occasionally comes down to posing and animation. From what I can tell though, this head is smaller than in 2014. It's hard for me to know for sure, but I think there's actually a bit of stretching at the first gill slit and the scales on the front of his neck. The spacing from the lower jaw for those details appears sort of larger than on the 2014 model, just right off. Look right below his lower jaw. There's more space there.

I've looked at this Godzilla design too much.

LSD Jellyfish wrote: ↑Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:06 am Hmm, well Godzilla 2014 was originally a stand alone film. Kong Skill island was originally as well, but had monarch inserted when it became a thing. Godzilla 2, and Godzilla vs Kong were created around the same time, and despite that, it’s sort of as though both are their own thing. I’d also reckon that all four of the monsterverse films can be enjoyed separately and independently of one another. Anything that needs explaining isn’t some big two hour thing needing complex understanding:

And they probably shouldn't feel like that. The point I made is that this lacks cohesion and planning.

Kong: Skull Island was planned to be a tie-in with Peter Jackson's King Kong with Universal, but was moved to Warner Bros. to be a crossover with Godzilla. It was initially announced in 2013/2014, but became a part of this series in 2015. It was written to be in the same continuity as Godzilla, so it wasn't really planned to be a stand-alone at any major point.
And they do fit together in parts, which I'll put in small text to keep things neater.

The mention of Godzilla's existence (within the movie, not just after-credits) in K:SI doesn't make sense without G2014. The beginning of GKOTM doesn't really make sense without G2014. Seeing the MUTOs, and references to them don't make sense without G2014, either. The Hollow Earth was mentioned in K:SI, expanded upon (weirdly, in my opinion) in GKOTM, and explored more in GvK (even wackier than GKOTM's idea). Kong's background isn't explained in GvK at all, and he's introduced as the same Kong in an enclosure on Skull Island after a disaster hit (explained more in tie-in comics). Jia isn't just a stand-alone character because she's the last of the Iwi. We've had returning characters. The Ghidorah skulls are leftover from the previous film.

There's plenty more examples. It tries to be a truly connected story, but messes stuff up. There are strange inconsistencies. That's the thing. Sure, you could just watch one without the others, but you'd be missing things. Some Showa era films are like this, but I think the bar should be higher for creating interesting narratives, characters, and more believable plots that mesh together well. Having some consistency in tone is also important. We got Joe Brody, and then nobody else truly got that close to being well written and interesting again. Hank Marlow was one of the rare characters that completed an arc well enough. G2014 and K:SI feel pretty different from each other, but GvK almost feels like a different series entirely. It's got a Shrek-like opening, even. So tonally different from the movies before it. Tone can evolve with sequels, but just switching with each installment is jarring these days.

Edited to complete thoughts.

MegaEvilSaurus666 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 10, 2021 5:42 am something something pose...something something explaining one Godzilla models differences in excruciating detail...something something realism

...I've looked at this Godzilla design too much.

Admit it, Mega. You secretly love MV Goji’s design, especially the newer one

Man you sure love to analyze Godzilla's head, don't you?

LSD Jellyfish wrote: ↑Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:06 am Hmm, well Godzilla 2014 was originally a stand alone film. Kong Skill island was originally as well, but had monarch inserted when it became a thing. Godzilla 2, and Godzilla vs Kong were created around the same time, and despite that, it’s sort of as though both are their own thing. I’d also reckon that all four of the monsterverse films can be enjoyed separately and independently of one another. Anything that needs explaining isn’t some big two hour thing needing complex understanding:

And they probably shouldn't feel like that. The point I made is that this lacks cohesion and planning.

Kong: Skull Island was planned to be a tie-in with Peter Jackson's King Kong with Universal, but was moved to Warner Bros. to be a crossover with Godzilla. It was initially announced in 2013/2014, but became a part of this series in 2015. It was written to be in the same continuity as Godzilla, so it wasn't really planned to be a stand-alone at any major point.
And they do fit together in parts, which I'll put in small text to keep things neater.

The mention of Godzilla's existence (within the movie, not just after-credits) in K:SI doesn't make sense without G2014. The beginning of GKOTM doesn't really make sense without G2014. Seeing the MUTOs, and references to them don't make sense without G2014, either. The Hollow Earth was mentioned in K:SI, expanded upon (weirdly, in my opinion) in GKOTM, and explored more in GvK (even wackier than GKOTM's idea). Kong's background isn't explained in GvK at all, and he's introduced as the same Kong in an enclosure on Skull Island after a disaster hit (explained more in tie-in comics). Jia isn't just a stand-alone character because she's the last of the Iwi. We've had returning characters. The Ghidorah skulls are leftover from the previous film.

There's plenty more examples. It tries to be a truly connected story, but messes stuff up. There are strange inconsistencies. That's the thing. Sure, you could just watch one without the others, but you'd be missing things. Some Showa era films are like this, but I think the bar should be higher for creating interesting narratives, characters, and more believable plots that mesh together well. Having some consistency in tone is also important. We got Joe Brody, and then nobody else truly got that close to being well written and interesting again. Hank Marlow was one of the rare characters that completed an arc well enough. G2014 and K:SI feel pretty different from each other, but GvK almost feels like a different series entirely. It's got a Shrek-like opening, even. So tonally different from the movies before it. Tone can evolve with sequels, but just switching with each installment is jarring these days.

Edited to complete thoughts.
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I think any comparisons of the MV to the Showa era are completely coincidental, and not in a good way. The inconsistent tone of the MV is due to course-correction, the studios’ reaction to critical and audience response. The vision that started off with G14 is completely gone by the time GvK came around. It’s like watching Batman V Superman and then getting Joss Whedon’s Justin League as a sequel.

To say the MV was planned in any sense other than what movie comes after another movie seems like apologizing for the cheapness that the franchise gave into at this point.