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I've found that, in today's world:Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote:Funny you say that. Last I checked, Trump supporters thought KOTM was leftist propaganda.Chrispy_G wrote:What weird SJW agenda did KOTM try to push? Heck, film critics and bloggers probably winced at the "toxic masculinity" implied by the title "King of the Monsters"
Vera Farmiga was portrayed as a complex villain and wasn't the savior of humanity
Kyle Chandler, a straight white male(film critic equivalent of Satan incarnate) was portrayed in a general positive and heroic light.
It is all about bending the knee to cringey SJW politics.
Chrispy_G wrote:Not taking Trump supporters seriously is what got him elected in 2016, and it will get him elected in 2020.
I'm not screaming about anything. I liked Wonder Woman more than Captain Marvel because....I'm unevenly sexist? I like Linda Hamilton's Sarah Connor in Terminator 2, but hated Terminator Genysis because I'm selectively sexist?
I like good movies, and dislike bad movies. That is all, I don't want my entertainment to preach at me. Godzilla is my favorite franchise and it has always had favorable roles for women.
It isn't about who is the main character of any of these movies, it is about the characters being compelling and well written and the films not being preachy and agenda driven.
Are movies only preachy when you dislike the message it is trying to covey?Chrispy_G wrote:I don't want my entertainment to preach at me.
It is done to pander. Note any key Disney remake. They go out of the way to make sure that they 'correct' or minimize the sexism displayed in the original works, or alleged sexism that is sometimes inherent to tropes of Disney princesses. Yet they never want to address the racist or perceived racist subject matter of the original works.KingKaiju wrote:Chrispy_G wrote:Not taking Trump supporters seriously is what got him elected in 2016, and it will get him elected in 2020.
I'm not screaming about anything. I liked Wonder Woman more than Captain Marvel because....I'm unevenly sexist? I like Linda Hamilton's Sarah Connor in Terminator 2, but hated Terminator Genysis because I'm selectively sexist?
I like good movies, and dislike bad movies. That is all, I don't want my entertainment to preach at me. Godzilla is my favorite franchise and it has always had favorable roles for women.
It isn't about who is the main character of any of these movies, it is about the characters being compelling and well written and the films not being preachy and agenda driven.
And no one has any issues with that. But the moment people start throwing the whole "SJW agenda" argument around, I can't help but eyeroll. Not that it doesn't happen, but that being one of the biggest complaints about these new films is just ridiculous. The notion that these roles are created and casted because they have to pander to POC or women is so stupid. However, the moment people talk about whitewashing in Hollywood, the narrative changes to "well, these communities just need to produce better actors," which can't happen when opportunities aren't there, which they often aren't. But you're right about the Trump supporters. They're a stupid bunch, but they're a loyal stupid bunch.
It is when films prioritize their preaching or agenda over quality entertainment and quality storytelling that it bothers me. When your agenda comes at the cost of good scripts, good characters, and ultimately, good movies....I take issue with it.szmigiel wrote:Are movies only preachy when you dislike the message it is trying to covey?Chrispy_G wrote:I don't want my entertainment to preach at me.
Is the original Gojira Preachy?
Mothra?
Mothra Vs Godzilla?
Godzilla Vs Hedorah?
GMK?
Shin Godzilla?
I really think this is an eye of the beholder situation. One person can find something preachy and another could find that the message it is trying to convey just find, or agree with it. I typically find the good sci-fi has a bit a preachiness to it.Chrispy_G wrote:It is when films prioritize their preaching or agenda over quality entertainment and quality storytelling that it bothers me. When your agenda comes at the cost of good scripts, good characters, and ultimately, good movies....I take issue with it.
Does your film exist to be a good film with some deeper themes? Or does your film exist to be a preachy message disguised as a movie?
Oh yeah, completely forgot that they're "some very fine people." I'm not saying that these corporations don't try to monotize these things, of course they do. However this notion of the suddenly white males are losing out on roles and people just picking people of color to pick them is simply ridiculous. For example: the casting of The Little Mermaid sent people losing their minds. I'm pretty sure they didn't sit there and go, "hmmmmm, definitely want a black girl for this role," but people certainly act like it. Or, to go back to the Star Wars example, the notion that Rose was selected simply to have an asian girl in the movie is just stupid. People look at Black Panther, which was fantastic, and go "it only did well because it was a black cast!" Yeah, no shit. It's almost like when people are well represented on screen, that they become more willing to show up. But of course that's something that only certain people and their experiences in this country would understand. I guess I can see why it wouldn't seem like such a big deal to some people, but when you've had the priviledge of never wondering those things, I can see why it would seem like such a small matter.Chrispy_G wrote:It is done to pander. Note any key Disney remake. They go out of the way to make sure that they 'correct' or minimize the sexism displayed in the original works, or alleged sexism that is sometimes inherent to tropes of Disney princesses. Yet they never want to address the racist or perceived racist subject matter of the original works.KingKaiju wrote:Chrispy_G wrote:Not taking Trump supporters seriously is what got him elected in 2016, and it will get him elected in 2020.
I'm not screaming about anything. I liked Wonder Woman more than Captain Marvel because....I'm unevenly sexist? I like Linda Hamilton's Sarah Connor in Terminator 2, but hated Terminator Genysis because I'm selectively sexist?
I like good movies, and dislike bad movies. That is all, I don't want my entertainment to preach at me. Godzilla is my favorite franchise and it has always had favorable roles for women.
It isn't about who is the main character of any of these movies, it is about the characters being compelling and well written and the films not being preachy and agenda driven.
And no one has any issues with that. But the moment people start throwing the whole "SJW agenda" argument around, I can't help but eyeroll. Not that it doesn't happen, but that being one of the biggest complaints about these new films is just ridiculous. The notion that these roles are created and casted because they have to pander to POC or women is so stupid. However, the moment people talk about whitewashing in Hollywood, the narrative changes to "well, these communities just need to produce better actors," which can't happen when opportunities aren't there, which they often aren't. But you're right about the Trump supporters. They're a stupid bunch, but they're a loyal stupid bunch.
Lyndsey Ellis did a fantastic video essay called "Woke Disney" that addresses it very well. Basically, there is money to be made in the "Girl Boss" trope, while there isn't a very corporate approved, monetizing way to say "Hey the original Dumbo had quite a bit of racist crap in it, lets address that" and instead they just pretend that it never happened.
The average Trump supporter is no more idiotic than the average Democrat. Heck of a lot friendlier in my experience, though....but I used to drink the Dem kool-aid as well, so no harm no foul.
Okay i hate to jump into this,but as an African American,i think both sides are in the wrong. Yes we could certainly need more diveristy in Hollywood...but it's getting so forced it's becoming outright ridicolous. Superman was almost played by Michael Jordan,Magneto's suppose to be black in the next X-Man film,and the fact they team isn't even being naned the X-Men is just stupid. While some certainly overreact,sometimes Hollywood goes to far with diversity.KingKaiju wrote:I've found that, in today's world:Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote:Funny you say that. Last I checked, Trump supporters thought KOTM was leftist propaganda.Chrispy_G wrote:What weird SJW agenda did KOTM try to push? Heck, film critics and bloggers probably winced at the "toxic masculinity" implied by the title "King of the Monsters"
Vera Farmiga was portrayed as a complex villain and wasn't the savior of humanity
Kyle Chandler, a straight white male(film critic equivalent of Satan incarnate) was portrayed in a general positive and heroic light.
It is all about bending the knee to cringey SJW politics.
1. Anyone who supports Trump just shouldn't be taken seriously.
2. Most people screaming about the "SJW agenda" in Hollywood are just angry white dudes who suddenly feel like they're victims because, for once, things aren't catered to them.
Dudes are like, "I hate this PC culture bullshit!! I like funny jokes," and then will proceed about why they can't say the word "Dororo", but black people can...
Autocorrect for the N word.tyrantgoji wrote:Okay i hate to jump into this,but as an African American,i think both sides are in the wrong. Yes we could certainly need more diveristy in Hollywood...but it's getting so forced it's becoming outright ridicolous. Superman was almost played by Michael Jordan,Magneto's suppose to be black in the next X-Man film,and the fact they team isn't even being naned the X-Men is just stupid. While some certainly overreact,sometimes Hollywood goes to far with diversity.KingKaiju wrote:I've found that, in today's world:Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: Funny you say that. Last I checked, Trump supporters thought KOTM was leftist propaganda.
1. Anyone who supports Trump just shouldn't be taken seriously.
2. Most people screaming about the "SJW agenda" in Hollywood are just angry white dudes who suddenly feel like they're victims because, for once, things aren't catered to them.
Dudes are like, "I hate this PC culture bullshit!! I like funny jokes," and then will proceed about why they can't say the word "Dororo", but black people can...
Also what word is Dororo? I have never heard of that in my entire life.
Wait who's saying that they shouldn't be their race? Nobody is arguing about that,they're just mad at white people's race being changed. Also,i STRONGLY disagree about Superman being black not changing who he is. If earlier on in his career they did a Spider-Man type thing where they did a "Anyone can get the power of Superman,no matter what race!" Like Miles and Silk i would agree....but they didn't,he's been white for as long as everyone can remember. Changing his race is like making Godzilla a giant scorpion,it simply doesn't work.KingKaiju wrote:Autocorrect for the N word.tyrantgoji wrote:Okay i hate to jump into this,but as an African American,i think both sides are in the wrong. Yes we could certainly need more diveristy in Hollywood...but it's getting so forced it's becoming outright ridicolous. Superman was almost played by Michael Jordan,Magneto's suppose to be black in the next X-Man film,and the fact they team isn't even being naned the X-Men is just stupid. While some certainly overreact,sometimes Hollywood goes to far with diversity.KingKaiju wrote:
I've found that, in today's world:
1. Anyone who supports Trump just shouldn't be taken seriously.
2. Most people screaming about the "SJW agenda" in Hollywood are just angry white dudes who suddenly feel like they're victims because, for once, things aren't catered to them.
Dudes are like, "I hate this PC culture bullshit!! I like funny jokes," and then will proceed about why they can't say the word "Dororo", but black people can...
Also what word is Dororo? I have never heard of that in my entire life.
I'm not saying that there aren't companies trying to jump on this. Of course they are. There's a lot of bullshit that flies around hollywood, it call comes down to money. Unfortunately, a lot of that involves fakes that come out of hollywood to show they they're not a bunch of rich elites who aren't bias or racist, the "allies" that come out of the woodwork and do everything in their power to show that they understand the struggles (they don't). That being said, I do believe that the uproar has caused studios to, at the very least, look at a wider range of people to hire in their productions. As a result, you will inherently find a more diverse cast. People have a problem with that, and that's where my beef is. My issue isn't that Hollywood tries to monotize the changing times, my issue is that people use to old Affirmative Action argument of "you didn't earn it, you're just here because they HAD to get a non-white person." Which is so ridiculous. The most recent example I can think of is Commissioner Gordon being played by Jeffey Wright. I've seen people just biiiiitch about that. Probably the same people that didn't say a word about Scarlett Johansson's casting in Ghost in The Shell. The fact is that as long as the race of the character doesn't play a major role in who the character is, then it doesn't matter. Black Panther SHOULD be African, Dr. Doom SHOULD be European or of European descent, Shang Chi SHOULD be asian. I saw the rumor of Michael B. Jordan potentially being Superman. I didn't like the idea, not because Michael B. Jordan is black, but because I don't think he could pull off a Superman. At the end of the day, Superman being black doesn't change who the character is. To an extent, a black magneto would make sense. Magneto was shaped by WW2 and the concentration camps, if you need to update him for modern times, because people from that era are getting so much older, it would make sense to change his ethnicity to a member of another group who dealt with a similar tragedy. Here's my issue: when people get mad at castings like Ghost in The Shell, it's not because it's inaccurate to a character who's traditionally been japanese, it's because the same companies who pretend to care about diversity had a chance to actually cast someone who could not only fit the role and character, but create more representation on screen. That's not a concern, when the roles are flipped, the argument becomes "well, she must just be the best for the role. Period." Yet, cast a black girl as Ariel The Little Mermaid, and it's "pandering to the SJW agenda."
And we're all very proud of youChrispy_G wrote:I'm an individual with my own opinion.
Neither do I. But to my point, Superman's skincolor, other than him being a white dude in the comics, has nothing to do with the core characteristics that make him who he is. He's a kryptonian from space, who grew up in Smallville, and has special abilities. Changing his race changes none of that, just like how Godzilla can be green, grey, black, or a zombie looking mutated amphibian.tyrantgoji wrote:Wait who's saying that they shouldn't be their race? Nobody is arguing about that,they're just mad at white people's race being changed. Also,i STRONGLY disagree about Superman being black not changing who he is. If earlier on in his career they did a Spider-Man type thing where they did a "Anyone can get the power of Superman,no matter what race!" Like Miles and Silk i would agree....but they didn't,he's been white for as long as everyone can remember. Changing his race is like making Godzilla a giant scorpion,it simply doesn't work.KingKaiju wrote:Autocorrect for the N word.tyrantgoji wrote:
Okay i hate to jump into this,but as an African American,i think both sides are in the wrong. Yes we could certainly need more diveristy in Hollywood...but it's getting so forced it's becoming outright ridicolous. Superman was almost played by Michael Jordan,Magneto's suppose to be black in the next X-Man film,and the fact they team isn't even being naned the X-Men is just stupid. While some certainly overreact,sometimes Hollywood goes to far with diversity.
Also what word is Dororo? I have never heard of that in my entire life.
I'm not saying that there aren't companies trying to jump on this. Of course they are. There's a lot of bullshit that flies around hollywood, it call comes down to money. Unfortunately, a lot of that involves fakes that come out of hollywood to show they they're not a bunch of rich elites who aren't bias or racist, the "allies" that come out of the woodwork and do everything in their power to show that they understand the struggles (they don't). That being said, I do believe that the uproar has caused studios to, at the very least, look at a wider range of people to hire in their productions. As a result, you will inherently find a more diverse cast. People have a problem with that, and that's where my beef is. My issue isn't that Hollywood tries to monotize the changing times, my issue is that people use to old Affirmative Action argument of "you didn't earn it, you're just here because they HAD to get a non-white person." Which is so ridiculous. The most recent example I can think of is Commissioner Gordon being played by Jeffey Wright. I've seen people just biiiiitch about that. Probably the same people that didn't say a word about Scarlett Johansson's casting in Ghost in The Shell. The fact is that as long as the race of the character doesn't play a major role in who the character is, then it doesn't matter. Black Panther SHOULD be African, Dr. Doom SHOULD be European or of European descent, Shang Chi SHOULD be asian. I saw the rumor of Michael B. Jordan potentially being Superman. I didn't like the idea, not because Michael B. Jordan is black, but because I don't think he could pull off a Superman. At the end of the day, Superman being black doesn't change who the character is. To an extent, a black magneto would make sense. Magneto was shaped by WW2 and the concentration camps, if you need to update him for modern times, because people from that era are getting so much older, it would make sense to change his ethnicity to a member of another group who dealt with a similar tragedy. Here's my issue: when people get mad at castings like Ghost in The Shell, it's not because it's inaccurate to a character who's traditionally been japanese, it's because the same companies who pretend to care about diversity had a chance to actually cast someone who could not only fit the role and character, but create more representation on screen. That's not a concern, when the roles are flipped, the argument becomes "well, she must just be the best for the role. Period." Yet, cast a black girl as Ariel The Little Mermaid, and it's "pandering to the SJW agenda."
However i don't wanna clog up this thread anymore. If you wanna continue this,PM me.
Chrispy_G wrote:it will get him elected in 2020.
Chrispy_G wrote:Nice to hear that you know the future
Well you're never gonna get a consensus from fans and I don't think that was OP's idea to begin with. I certainly think it deserved the score it got but there are fervent defenders of the film here who disagree.airforce111 wrote:so did godzilla deserve the rotten tomatoes score? we will never know
Michael B Jordan was not playing Clark Kent, he was most likely going to be Val Zod or Calvin Ellis.tyrantgoji wrote:Okay i hate to jump into this,but as an African American,i think both sides are in the wrong. Yes we could certainly need more diveristy in Hollywood...but it's getting so forced it's becoming outright ridicolous. Superman was almost played by Michael Jordan,Magneto's suppose to be black in the next X-Man film,and the fact they team isn't even being naned the X-Men is just stupid. While some certainly overreact,sometimes Hollywood goes to far with diversity.KingKaiju wrote:I've found that, in today's world:Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: Funny you say that. Last I checked, Trump supporters thought KOTM was leftist propaganda.
1. Anyone who supports Trump just shouldn't be taken seriously.
2. Most people screaming about the "SJW agenda" in Hollywood are just angry white dudes who suddenly feel like they're victims because, for once, things aren't catered to them.
Dudes are like, "I hate this PC culture bullshit!! I like funny jokes," and then will proceed about why they can't say the word "Dororo", but black people can...
Also what word is Dororo? I have never heard of that in my entire life.
Yeah. People only call things preachy when it doesn't agree with whatever they personally agree with.szmigiel wrote:Are movies only preachy when you dislike the message it is trying to covey?Chrispy_G wrote:I don't want my entertainment to preach at me.
Is the original Gojira Preachy?
Mothra?
Mothra Vs Godzilla?
Godzilla Vs Hedorah?
GMK?
Shin Godzilla?
Today I learned that black people are as different from white people as scorpions are from dinosaurs.tyrantgoji wrote:Changing his race is like making Godzilla a giant scorpion,it simply doesn't work.