Monster Speculation: KING GHIDORAH

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Re: Monster Speculation: KING GHIDORAH

Postby _JNavs_ » Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:58 pm

GodzillaFan1990's wrote:
_JNavs_ wrote:Completely agree, while the other villains are more human-like, Ghidorah is a literal walking terror, he vaporizes and eats humans, destroyed Washington DC, caused Cat 6 hurricanes, tornadoes, lightning storms.

I mean, come on, that's just the coolest.

Can't get anymore evil then that. ;)

Easily up there in terms of evilness with Joker and Palpatine without a doubt.

I liked how he seemed similar to the likes of Geoffrey from GOT and the cruel Kings of ancient history who abused their power and treated the people like dirt in comparison to Godzilla, the regal and rightful King who treats all equally as long as they don't test his might.

There's definitely a sense of the "Throne" being the central theme of these films.
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Re: Monster Speculation: KING GHIDORAH

Postby GodzillaFan1990's » Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:59 pm

_JNavs_ wrote:I liked how he seemed similar to the likes of Geoffrey from GOT and the cruel Kings of ancient history who abused their power and treated the people like dirt in comparison to Godzilla, the regal and rightful King who treats all equally as long as they don't test his might.

There's definitely a sense of the "Throne" being the central theme of these films.

I also especially loved King Ghidorah's introduction. The way he arises from his icy tomb and sadistically kills the soldiers rather then ignore them.

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Re: Monster Speculation: KING GHIDORAH

Postby GalacticPetey » Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:02 pm

Absolutely loved this take on Ghidorah. Very sinister and the individual heads had so much personality. Might be my favorite incarnation of the character.
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Re: Monster Speculation: KING GHIDORAH

Postby _JNavs_ » Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:03 pm

GodzillaFan1990's wrote:
_JNavs_ wrote:I liked how he seemed similar to the likes of Geoffrey from GOT and the cruel Kings of ancient history who abused their power and treated the people like dirt in comparison to Godzilla, the regal and rightful King who treats all equally as long as they don't test his might.

There's definitely a sense of the "Throne" being the central theme of these films.

I also especially loved King Ghidorah's introduction. The way he arises from his icy tomb and sadistically kills the soldiers rather then ignore them.

It's scary to think Ghidorah "Fell from the Stars" implying a Ridley Scott Alien/Carpenters The Thing-esque mystery to how he came to Earth and what else can be lurking within our universe... Love it.
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Re: Monster Speculation: KING GHIDORAH

Postby JesstrK » Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:53 pm

I loved him. Definitely stole the show, my favorite movie villain of all time, hands down. Just wish we could have seen some good old fashioned city destruction scenes with him. Sadly his awesome villainy will likely go unnoticed/forgotten by moviegoers as a whole. I’m glad we all enjoyed this version, we probably won’t be seeing him again, which is really too bad seeing as Dougherty
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Re: Monster Speculation: KING GHIDORAH

Postby MegaEvilSaurus666 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:54 am

I started thinking about some things, and the more I think, the less the movie's ideas work for me. I hate this, really.

But this is a quick question I have. How exactly does Ghidorah work? I'm not asking to explain the three heads, or the ability to generate storms, or even why he looks closer to an earthly creature than the MUTOs do, no. But rather, if he is indeed this alien creature they explain him to be, how exactly does he communicate with and understand the bio-acoustics of earth's creatures, considering his different evolutionary lineage? And further, why is he called Titanus Ghidorah, as if he fits in with the titans of earth?

This all boils down to the whole titan thing being a fundamentally flawed concept for me.

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Re: Monster Speculation: KING GHIDORAH

Postby _JNavs_ » Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:58 am

Because Titans as a whole are misunderstood creatures, they didn't know Ghidorah was an alien until 55% through the film, and even then it was only a select few people that heard Dr. Chen say so.

He doesn't communicate with Earth's creatures, they communicate with him, so there has to be some reason why, we have no idea of his origins, he could've been 3 separate organisms that were taken to space during one of the many cataclysmic events that occurred on Earth. Crashing back down Millenia's later. I have a feeling they purposefully kept the origins a mystery, like Carpenter and Ridley Scott did to keep the alien suspense in full effect.
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Re: Monster Speculation: KING GHIDORAH

Postby BARAGONBREH » Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:02 am

MegaEvilSaurus666 wrote:I started thinking about some things, and the more I think, the less the movie's ideas work for me. I hate this, really.

But this is a quick question I have. How exactly does Ghidorah work? I'm not asking to explain the three heads, or the ability to generate storms, or even why he looks closer to an earthly creature than the MUTOs do, no. But rather, if he is indeed this alien creature they explain him to be, how exactly does he communicate with and understand the bio-acoustics of earth's creatures, considering his different evolutionary lineage? And further, why is he called Titanus Ghidorah, as if he fits in with the titans of earth?

This all boils down to the whole titan thing being a fundamentally flawed concept for me.


Meh, the Titans thing doesn't bother me; small oversights like that are bearable and frankly, the last thing the movie needed was to spend more time on stupid expository dialogue to lay it all out for us. Could you imagine what insulting lengths Dougherty would have had his characters go to in order to explain that to us? "You see, in 1958, during the third generation of Monarch, which was the most important until the current one, a variety of factors conjoined to create the conditions that Ghidorah was incorrectly surmised to be the evolutionary byproduct of Earthbound organisms because..." blah skreeonking blah.

I will agree, however, that the "communication" with all the Titans of the earth bit was just plain stupid. Worse yet, the movie didn't even seem aware it was stupid, just throwing in a sentence about how he communicated with all the Titans of the earth with his little roar on that volcano (as if we hadn't already seen as much) and then moving right along, as if there was nothing particularly unique about that.
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Re: Monster Speculation: KING GHIDORAH

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:19 am

MegaEvilSaurus666 wrote:I started thinking about some things, and the more I think, the less the movie's ideas work for me. I hate this, really.

But this is a quick question I have. How exactly does Ghidorah work? I'm not asking to explain the three heads, or the ability to generate storms, or even why he looks closer to an earthly creature than the MUTOs do, no. But rather, if he is indeed this alien creature they explain him to be, how exactly does he communicate with and understand the bio-acoustics of earth's creatures, considering his different evolutionary lineage? And further, why is he called Titanus Ghidorah, as if he fits in with the titans of earth?

This all boils down to the whole titan thing being a fundamentally flawed concept for me.


I don’t like the Titan concept because the one sized fits all approach doesn’t work well. I actually sort of preferred it when they were actually all called MUTOs because hey that admitted in the name that they were Unknown. The Toho Godzilla series never really used a one sized fit all approach, you had monsters like Godzilla and Rodan who had similar origins, but then you had creatures that were complete fantasy or had their own original origins and backstory. I do admit I’m not a big fan of how the Muto monsters, Behemoth and all the original Kaiju, plus Godzilla, Rodan Mothra etc...all essentially have the same origin story. Compare that to how Ebirah grew large off of radioactive waste from the Red Bamboo, Kamacuras was mutated by the weather expirement, etc...

One thing that actually was really neat about KKVG was that they explicitly referenced that Kong was essentially just a big ape, that happened to be worshipped, while Godzilla was an abomination born from nuclear testing. It gave a solid differentiation. Thinking about it more while the undersea kingdom stuff is awesome, I’m not sure how much I like the rest.

Like JNavs said though, it is admitted that a big flaw was that Ghidorah really wasn’t a titan. He is an alien. He’s the first monster beyond the general Titan rules or whatever. When they released KG, they didn’t realize that there would be that level of reaction.
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Re: Monster Speculation: KING GHIDORAH

Postby MegaEvilSaurus666 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:08 am

_JNavs_ wrote:we have no idea of his origins, he could've been 3 separate organisms that were taken to space during one of the many cataclysmic events that occurred on Earth. Crashing back down Millenia's later. I have a feeling they purposefully kept the origins a mystery, like Carpenter and Ridley Scott did to keep the alien suspense in full effect.

I don't particularly care for his origins, because that would have worked in more issues. It's implied that because he's an alien, he has a different biology. That makes sense, anyway.

Essentially, I'm messing with the idea that the Titans can communicate in such a way in the first place. And apparently an alien can, too. What's next, Godzilla talks to humans? That's interspecies communication, too.

_JNavs_ wrote:He doesn't communicate with Earth's creatures, they communicate with him


He called, they answered. That's communication on his part. Most communication goes both ways, regardless of response. Rodan submitted to him, and he didn't merely kill Rodan because he was capable of understanding and communicating. He even understands the Orca like any other Titan. It doesn't matter if Godzilla's bio-acoustics were spliced with humans, either. He can make the distinction and takes attention away from Godzilla to pursue it.

BARAGONBREH wrote:I will agree, however, that the "communication" with all the Titans of the earth bit was just plain stupid. Worse yet, the movie didn't even seem aware it was stupid, just throwing in a sentence about how he communicated with all the Titans of the earth with his little roar on that volcano (as if we hadn't already seen as much) and then moving right along, as if there was nothing particularly unique about that.


It doesn't make sense. Suspension of disbelief is thrown out the window. Sure, I'll believe Ghidorah is an alien and whatnot, but when they communicate, between species, between aliens, from hundreds and thousands of miles apart, red flags go up. It's that, the sneaky teleporting titans at the final scene, and the kneeling. All of that.

LSD Jellyfish wrote:I actually sort of preferred it when they were actually all called MUTOs because hey that admitted in the name that they were Unknown. The Toho Godzilla series never really used a one sized fit all approach, you had monsters like Godzilla and Rodan who had similar origins, but then you had creatures that were complete fantasy or had their own original origins and backstory. I do admit I’m not a big fan of how the Muto monsters, Behemoth and all the original Kaiju, plus Godzilla, Rodan Mothra etc...all essentially have the same origin story.


This pretty much sums up my opinion as well.

LSD Jellyfish wrote:Like JNavs said though, it is admitted that a big flaw was that Ghidorah really wasn’t a titan. He is an alien. He’s the first monster beyond the general Titan rules or whatever. When they released KG, they didn’t realize that there would be that level of reaction.


The problem is though, it's explained that they're responding to an alpha, rival to Godzilla. Regardless of whether he's called an alien, the movie seems to treat him like a simple Alpha Titan, for all intents and purposes. Meaning he follows the same rules. This is probably done to make sure that he's a rival for the alpha title, and unfortunately just a set up for the monster fights. It really could have worked being left at him being an ancient alien enemy of the Titans, like the cave paintings implied in K:SI. I'd forgive it if not for the other criticisms I mentioned above. I'm sure the novelization mentions the Titans as allies to Ghidorah or something before Godzilla defeats him and asserts his dominance. Maybe I'm wrong. The movie has only been out for a few days.

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Re: Monster Speculation: KING GHIDORAH

Postby Mecha-SpaceGhidorah » Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:46 am

A thought just occurred to me in regards to the whole communication thing. Many of the Titans here are presented as being more intelligent than a standard animal, and ones like Godzilla, Kong, and possibly Mothra are shown to be significantly more intelligent than a typical animal. Possibly verging on or crossing over to full sentience and sapience. Further, this King Ghidorah is shown as intelligent as that and quite sadistic (actively going after individual soldiers in Antarctica for instance).

Maybe he learned to communicate with and manipulate the other Titans? He's been on the planet for at least thousands of years, maybe more; and active for quite some time, enough to have multiple cultures refer to him in hushed whispers even in their own legends. It's possible he was active for several hundred years. Given that he seems to want to either destroy everything or more likely "Ghidorah-form" the planet to his own liking, native Titans are a powerful tool for that.

Now, how he had any bioacoustics similar to those of terrestrial Titans to begin with and how the Orca effects him to any or, especially, a significant degree is still unanswered. But I think that him learning to communicate with and use others fits and answers some of the questions.
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Re: Monster Speculation: KING GHIDORAH

Postby DaddlerTheDalek » Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:07 pm

King Ghidorah stole the show. Great villain in this.
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Re: Monster Speculation: KING GHIDORAH

Postby gottatalktothefake » Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:11 pm

Him pulling off the weird membrane sack was such a gross but awesome moment
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Oh well. Guess I won't see the movie for myself and form my own opinion, I've basically already seen it in my mind from what I've read online and I know a lame duck when I see one. Time to whip out the 'ol 12 gauge

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Re: Monster Speculation: KING GHIDORAH

Postby JesstrK » Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:36 pm

I liked how he was totally unaffected by the Oxygen Destroyer. I mean dang, the one nearly fool proof weapon for killing Godzilla and practically anything else and Ghidorah’s not even phased.

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Re: Monster Speculation: KING GHIDORAH

Postby Maverick Centigrade » Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:51 pm

Ghidorah was truly a menacing presence in this film. Totally unstoppable and evil, didn't even care about some of the design elements to him, every moment on film I was saying to myself "poop look out".

A small detail I liked was was Ghidorah licking up the ashes of the dead soldier's with his tongue (which were forked), and taking notice of Godzilla's reflection in the buildings when his heads were webbed.
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Re: Monster Speculation: KING GHIDORAH

Postby _JNavs_ » Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:00 pm

Maverick Centigrade wrote:Ghidorah was truly a menacing presence in this film. Totally unstoppable and evil, didn't even care about some of the design elements to him, every moment on film I was saying to myself "poop look out".

A small detail I liked was was Ghidorah licking up the ashes of the dead soldier's with his tongue (which were forked), and taking notice of Godzilla's reflection in the buildings when his heads were webbed.

When he noticed Godzilla in the glass you could just tell he was thinking *Ohhhhhhh fuuuuu-*, the next scene you even see him go for a bite but Godzilla just absolutely tosses him through the building.
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Re: Monster Speculation: KING GHIDORAH

Postby MegaEvilSaurus666 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:12 pm

_JNavs_ wrote:
Maverick Centigrade wrote:Ghidorah was truly a menacing presence in this film. Totally unstoppable and evil, didn't even care about some of the design elements to him, every moment on film I was saying to myself "poop look out".

A small detail I liked was was Ghidorah licking up the ashes of the dead soldier's with his tongue (which were forked), and taking notice of Godzilla's reflection in the buildings when his heads were webbed.

When he noticed Godzilla in the glass you could just tell he was thinking *Ohhhhhhh fuuuuu-*, the next scene you even see him go for a bite but Godzilla just absolutely tosses him through the building.


Minor nitpick, but these monsters are extremely strong. Wouldn't he have been able to pull his heads from the building, regardless of how strong Mothra's webs are? I'm pretty sure the building cannot be that sturdy. Just rip chunks from the building or go through it. Would've been better if Mothra just webbed the heads together instead in hindsight. Oh well, it's a cool scene.

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Re: Monster Speculation: KING GHIDORAH

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:02 pm

Can this just be re titled the general KG Discussion thread?

One thing I really did like about this film was that it showed off and gave a good reason why Ghidorah was a considerable threat to Godzilla. The Showa incarnation always suffered from not really showing Godzilla vs. Ghidorah 1v1, and not really giving Ghidorah a good way to justify his supposed strength.

In this, Ghidorah had great regeneration, the ability to control/influence other monsters, immunity from the oxygen destroyer and other weapons, increased control over his tails (they were prehensile) and the whole storm thing. Not to mention, while yeah Godzilla uses his beam on Ghidorah, its more clear that he can tank it way more.
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Re: Monster Speculation: KING GHIDORAH

Postby JesstrK » Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:10 pm

LSD Jellyfish wrote:The Showa incarnation always suffered from not really showing Godzilla vs. Ghidorah 1v1, and not really giving Ghidorah a good way to justify his supposed strength.

To be fair, we did see Showa Ghidorah tank Godzilla’s nuclear breath without flinching. Not many can do that. But yeah, we never get to see him regenerate or anything or actually kill another kaiju, these things really made Legendary Ghidorah threatening.

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Re: Monster Speculation: KING GHIDORAH

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:14 pm

JesstrK wrote:
LSD Jellyfish wrote:The Showa incarnation always suffered from not really showing Godzilla vs. Ghidorah 1v1, and not really giving Ghidorah a good way to justify his supposed strength.

To be fair, we did see Showa Ghidorah tank Godzilla’s nuclear breath without flinching. Not many can do that. But yeah, we never get to see him regenerate or anything or actually kill another kaiju, these things really made Legendary Ghidorah threatening.

That`s true, but it felt like it had little impact due to the effect, and it being one of the first beam fights. Not like later entries where the beams hit more.

Another detail I liked was how Ghidorah shielded himself with his wings and due to their leathery nature the missiles bounced off.
_JNavs_ wrote:The MV is like cheap imitation crabmeat, it tastes good, but it isn't real, while Shin is kino peak Japanese performance.


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