Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

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Re: Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

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JAGzilla wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:37 pm
ernesth100 wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:09 am Someone said Ghidorah doesn't look alien. And no offense. But I'm laughing. If you think a three headed 500 foot dragon lightning powered dragon that generates storms isn't alien then..poop. I duneven know man.
Well, he does look remarkably like dragons out of human mythology, which are themselves based on terrestrial reptiles.

To be fair, of course, (and setting aside unconfirmed UFO lore) we have literally no idea at all what alien life looks like. There is no such thing as a realistic alien in science fiction, unless some designer happened to get lucky by chance. Ghidorah is no more or less authentically alien than Chewbacca, Daleks, or Spock.
Sure, but it could be due to Ghidorah's alien planet also having similar selective pressures as those on Earth and therefore exhibiting some convergent evolution. Like eyes, or wings or scales etc. The thing has three heads, two tails and no arms that can regenerate almost in an instant if it has an energy source too

Speaking of alien life, there's this amazing documentary I recommend checking it out about it. Pretty fascinating stuff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThDYazipjSI
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Re: Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

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MegaEvilSaurus666 wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:25 pm My issue is that the Titan hierarchy concept didn't make sense within the series' own rules, prior to GKOTM. Look at the MUTOs and Skull Crawlers. I prefer the idea that they're massive animals that came up at different points in the history of this fictional Earth. The MUTOs were only trying to survive as a species awakened from dormancy. Very social and expressive, intelligent. Now, we have one that bows for some reason named Barb. I preferred this Godzilla as an apex/alpha predator, and a keystone species needed to maintain the balance of earth's ecosystems. Only seen as a god or mythical beast by ancient civilizations (not associated with them), just the same as some animals are of religious importance in various cultures, or how dinosaur fossils perhaps inspired dragons. Like legends of monsters inspired merely by animals once unknown, poorly described, or rarely sighted. "God-like" in his adaptability, necessity, and longevity. A "king" in a figurative sense. It was something new. Not as an "Alpha Titan" or "king," ruling over them by an ancient social order, defending the planet and its land. Getting into wars with the Kong species as a juvenile. Some things feel like pure fan fiction, or the IDW comics.

The creatures can be highly intelligent without submitting and bowing to an "alpha," and communicating as if they're from the same time period and same species. "Alphas" in nature are the oldest or strongest within a group, or just the parents of the group. There are many intelligent, social animals that don't follow these rules. To me, this undermines the creatures and gets rid of their free-will (Alpha frequencies).
I had similar feelings after watching the movie, especially in regards to the Alpha Frequencies. Wasn't much of a fan of Rodan being used to showcase the bowing concept either, in the older movies he was capable of going toe to toe with the big players but here he's kind of a bottom female dog. And the Orca being a literal plot device that ensures the monsters are doing what the script demands of them.

Oh, right, this is the GVK thread. Gotta say that you're on the money about some of the animation on Godzilla. It's not immediately noticeable to the average viewer but it's definitely there if you're familiar with the animation process. As much as I like MV Goji, stuff like this makes me think he's in need of another update.
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Re: Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

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https://twitter.com/ItchyTasty_/status/ ... 1510921224

There, alternate Warbat designs from that concept art. I KNEW I was seeing legs! You guys never believe me when I try to point out details!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

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Smuggers wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:37 pm
MegaEvilSaurus666 wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:25 pm My issue is that the Titan hierarchy concept didn't make sense within the series' own rules, prior to GKOTM. Look at the MUTOs and Skull Crawlers. I prefer the idea that they're massive animals that came up at different points in the history of this fictional Earth. The MUTOs were only trying to survive as a species awakened from dormancy. Very social and expressive, intelligent. Now, we have one that bows for some reason named Barb. I preferred this Godzilla as an apex/alpha predator, and a keystone species needed to maintain the balance of earth's ecosystems. Only seen as a god or mythical beast by ancient civilizations (not associated with them), just the same as some animals are of religious importance in various cultures, or how dinosaur fossils perhaps inspired dragons. Like legends of monsters inspired merely by animals once unknown, poorly described, or rarely sighted. "God-like" in his adaptability, necessity, and longevity. A "king" in a figurative sense. It was something new. Not as an "Alpha Titan" or "king," ruling over them by an ancient social order, defending the planet and its land. Getting into wars with the Kong species as a juvenile. Some things feel like pure fan fiction, or the IDW comics.

The creatures can be highly intelligent without submitting and bowing to an "alpha," and communicating as if they're from the same time period and same species. "Alphas" in nature are the oldest or strongest within a group, or just the parents of the group. There are many intelligent, social animals that don't follow these rules. To me, this undermines the creatures and gets rid of their free-will (Alpha frequencies).
I had similar feelings after watching the movie, especially in regards to the Alpha Frequencies. Wasn't much of a fan of Rodan being used to showcase the bowing concept either, in the older movies he was capable of going toe to toe with the big players but here he's kind of a bottom female dog. And the Orca being a literal plot device that ensures the monsters are doing what the script demands of them.

Oh, right, this is the GVK thread. Gotta say that you're on the money about some of the animation on Godzilla. It's not immediately noticeable to the average viewer but it's definitely there if you're familiar with the animation process. As much as I like MV Goji, stuff like this makes me think he's in need of another update.
I don't understand how two years later people still don't understand Ghidorah beat Rodan into submission. The only difference between Showa Rodan and Legendary Rodan is that Godzilla and Ghidorah are bigger and stronger than him. Rodan was outmatched by Ghidorah 1 on 1 then as well.

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MegaEvilSaurus666 wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:25 pm
Jermobooka wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 12:55 pm I actually like the Titan hierarchy concept. Makes all the titans more than just simple minded creatures but intelligent animals capable of complex thought to an extent.

The Ghidorah thing might not actually be real. I just heard it’s hinted at somewhere in the KOTM novelization but i can’t confirm that and haven’t heard much of it elsewhere.
My issue is that the Titan hierarchy concept didn't make sense within the series' own rules, prior to GKOTM. Look at the MUTOs and Skull Crawlers. I prefer the idea that they're massive animals that came up at different points in the history of this fictional Earth. The MUTOs were only trying to survive as a species awakened from dormancy. Very social and expressive, intelligent. Now, we have one that bows for some reason named Barb. I preferred this Godzilla as an apex/alpha predator, and a keystone species needed to maintain the balance of earth's ecosystems. Only seen as a god or mythical beast by ancient civilizations (not associated with them), just the same as some animals are of religious importance in various cultures, or how dinosaur fossils perhaps inspired dragons. Like legends of monsters inspired merely by animals once unknown, poorly described, or rarely sighted. "God-like" in his adaptability, necessity, and longevity. A "king" in a figurative sense. It was something new. Not as an "Alpha Titan" or "king," ruling over them by an ancient social order, defending the planet and its land. Getting into wars with the Kong species as a juvenile. Some things feel like pure fan fiction, or the IDW comics.

The creatures can be highly intelligent without submitting and bowing to an "alpha," and communicating as if they're from the same time period and same species. "Alphas" in nature are the oldest or strongest within a group, or just the parents of the group. There are many intelligent, social animals that don't follow these rules. To me, this undermines the creatures and gets rid of their free-will (Alpha frequencies).
The Alpha roar is just fight me or die. The Beta Titans are simply choosing to follow the Alpha becasue they know they can't win a fight its not taking their free will. Humans have a problem of fighting losing battles which is why the Titans submitting the way they do likely seems like a losing battle.

If Ghidorah was 7 feet tall for example how many people would still challenge him because we refuse to be told what to do and some would use their free will to follow out of fear.
You can put it on my Tombstone Mothra vs Godzilla> Gojira
my personal take

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Re: Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

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Thegarbagemonster wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:52 pm https://twitter.com/ItchyTasty_/status/ ... 1510921224

There, alternate Warbat designs from that concept art. I KNEW I was seeing legs! You guys never believe me when I try to point out details!!!!!!!!!!
Because you’re wrong, like, 96.4% of the time :lol:

Interesting discovery nonetheless. Prefer the non-wing-standing version we got in the film though
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Re: Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

Post by MechaGoji Bro7503 »

I'd have to agree about the alpha concept, it's an alright idea, but it still feels offputting to me two years after KOTM. Especially when it means they have to apply it to nearly every monster's motives now it seems. Sucks that we got a fantastic Rodan in design, only to get shafted in the story.

I think part of the reason I enjoy GvK a lot more is how Kong had his own goal, which really had nothing to do with being an alpha. Then we get to Mechagodzilla, who I adore for straight up causing disorder, not having to be subjected to being an alpha ruler like King Ghidorah. Sure, technically he's controlled by Ghidorah, but it's still Mechagodzilla through and through. Meaning there's always a possibilty for him to return without any outside influence, ultimately causing conflict between Godzilla and mankind.
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Re: Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

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miguelnuva wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:19 pm I don't understand how two years later people still don't understand Ghidorah beat Rodan into submission. The only difference between Showa Rodan and Legendary Rodan is that Godzilla and Ghidorah are bigger and stronger than him. Rodan was outmatched by Ghidorah 1 on 1 then as well.
Uh, I understand that, I just don't like it...
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Re: Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

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#MakeRodanAnEqualToGodzillaAgain
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Re: Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

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miguelnuva wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:59 pm
MorgolKing wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:57 pm Like MegaEvilSaurus666, I do miss the tone and seriousness of G14. I would like to see Gareth Edwards return with a big budget to do a Destroy All Monsters type movie with several kaiju but with his eye for scope, weight, cinematography and "realistic" storytelling.

Despite the silliness of GvK's plot I do really enjoy it for what it is, and the kaiju action is really amazing. I think G14 and GvK, although quite different in tone, are the best of the MV films.
I put Wingard and even Doughtery over Edwards for Destroy all Titans. Edwards can have a different film.
I like Doughtery because he's such a huge fan of the franchise...but as a director, I'm not as sold. KoTM had way too many particle effects and cut aways in the middle of the fights, imo.
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Re: Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

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Smuggers wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:37 pm I had similar feelings after watching the movie, especially in regards to the Alpha Frequencies. Wasn't much of a fan of Rodan being used to showcase the bowing concept either, in the older movies he was capable of going toe to toe with the big players but here he's kind of a bottom female dog. And the Orca being a literal plot device that ensures the monsters are doing what the script demands of them.

Oh, right, this is the GVK thread. Gotta say that you're on the money about some of the animation on Godzilla. It's not immediately noticeable to the average viewer but it's definitely there if you're familiar with the animation process. As much as I like MV Goji, stuff like this makes me think he's in need of another update.
It diminished Rodan a lot. As awesome as his scene was in GKOTM, his characterization left me disappointed. It really doesn't make much sense to me that they introduced this Alpha aspect into the series. And in bold, that's exactly what I mean. It feels like the monsters aren't capable of doing much on their own volition now.

I thought nobody else would notice those aspects of the animation. This is good news, because I have more to say regarding it. Much more.

So, the dorsal plates stretching and warping causes Godzilla as a whole to appear very "rubbery" and strange at points in the Hong Kong fight. His dorsal plates are shown to be rigid and bony outside of this movie. It clearly not in line with the previous movies and even within itself (Godzilla destroys a ship using those plates earlier on), but his dorsal plates are bendy at so many points during the Hong Kong fight that I'm questioning if some of it was intentional or not. It occurs noticeably when Kong elbows Godzilla's neck, which is a part I didn't mention in earlier posts. They clearly fold out of the way so Kong can grab Godzilla's head. That, and Godzilla seems to have nearly gained the ability to rotate his head independently from his neck to bite at Kong's neck and hand in the same shot. I don't know how that happened. The more I look, the weirder it gets. The arm stretching in Pensacola makes more sense now. Godzilla's shoulders seemingly having no anatomy in various scenes (notably when pushed off of the aircraft carrier) makes sense now. Each issue I have with Godzilla makes more sense. It's all wacky. Where's TJ Storm when you need him? Andy Serkis for consulting? :lol:

I believe that there's a lack of proper understanding of how Godzilla should move based on the anatomy of the character. He shouldn't really be able to have the range of motion he has in this movie based on his structure. That doesn't mean that he should be immobile, but that more thought should be put into making his movements make sense. The design is solid (perhaps with the exception of the current head size), but the animation and speed throws it off.
Thegarbagemonster wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:52 pm https://twitter.com/ItchyTasty_/status/ ... 1510921224

There, alternate Warbat designs from that concept art. I KNEW I was seeing legs! You guys never believe me when I try to point out details!!!!!!!!!!
I do, at least. You have good eyes for these sorts of details and design choices. :lol:
And I understand where you're coming from here. Watch others say that they don't see the animation oddities I pointed out.

You've pointed out the saws on Mechagodzilla hands, and the saws(?) in the interior of its mouth, for example. I noticed those features as well.
miguelnuva wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:19 pm The Alpha roar is just fight me or die. The Beta Titans are simply choosing to follow the Alpha becasue they know they can't win a fight its not taking their free will. Humans have a problem of fighting losing battles which is why the Titans submitting the way they do likely seems like a losing battle.

If Ghidorah was 7 feet tall for example how many people would still challenge him because we refuse to be told what to do and some would use their free will to follow out of fear.
That right there doesn't make sense. "Fight me or die"? It's more like "submit or die."

They make the comparison to wolves and orcas in the movie itself. Packs and pods. Families. And no, animals don't work like that. Wild animals don't submit to other, larger species. Submission is pretty much intraspecific. We don't submit to stronger animals. Animals don't bow, either. That's anthropomorphic. It's called a fight-or-flight response for a reason, not fight-or-submit. The male MUTO chose to fight Godzilla, even though he is far larger. The male MUTO was territorial and aggressive, choosing to defend himself instead of running away. The MUTOs never stopped fighting for their lives. GKOTM makes it where all Godzilla should have had to do is intimidate them and have them submit, because he would have been an "Alpha" by GKOTM's rules. Parasitic species don't submit when their potential host fights. It simply doesn't work with the previous material for the series.
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Re: Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

Post by Jermobooka »

MegaEvilSaurus666 wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:43 am Harping on ze realizmz in a movie series about ginormous, intelligent monsters and how those ginourmous, intelligent monsters don’t act like normal animals
Ahhhh, classic MGE :lol:

Jokes aside, I think the main thing here is that you’re treating the titans like they’re just big animals, which they’re not. That’s why they’re branded as “Titans” and not “Kaiju” or “MUTO’s”. They’re not simply “giant monsters” or “big animals”, they’re godlike creatures with insane powers/abilities that inspired myths, legends, and various tales. Animals might not bow to stronger animals, but Titans do bow to stronger Titans, with a fairly odd hierarchy system to boot

You’re sorta right about the MUTO thing though. Bit of a continuity error i suppose. You could make the case that since the Queen MUTO was the last of her kind as Goji is significantly stronger she didn’t want to die and to possibly fulfill her parasitic tendencies at a later, more timely date
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Re: Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

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Speaking of Titans, did anyone else find it kinda jarring when they just suddenly starting using that term halfway through this series?
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Not really? Always thought that it was just the generalized term for the particularily big creatures adopted for public communication post 2014. The term "MUTO" was literally only used for the mated pair and even then it wasn't even something Monarch coined, but rather a military designation. (talking purely movie wise, I know Awakening refers to both Godzilla and the Shinomura as MUTOs but again, military designation). I prefer the term ngl, gives them a more mythical and majestic vibe.
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Dv-218 wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:20 am Not really? Always thought that it was just the generalized term for the particularily big creatures adopted for public communication post 2014. The term "MUTO" was literally only used for the mated pair and even then it wasn't even something Monarch coined, but rather a military designation. (talking purely movie wise, I know Awakening refers to both Godzilla and the Shinomura as MUTOs but again, military designation). I prefer the term ngl, gives them a more mythical and majestic vibe.
Randa actually says in Skull Island that Monarch specializes in the hunt for Massive Unidentified Terrestrial Organisms. That's part of why it stood out to me.
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Smuggers wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:26 am
Dv-218 wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:20 am Not really? Always thought that it was just the generalized term for the particularily big creatures adopted for public communication post 2014. The term "MUTO" was literally only used for the mated pair and even then it wasn't even something Monarch coined, but rather a military designation. (talking purely movie wise, I know Awakening refers to both Godzilla and the Shinomura as MUTOs but again, military designation). I prefer the term ngl, gives them a more mythical and majestic vibe.
Randa actually says in Skull Island that Monarch specializes in the hunt for Massive Unidentified Terrestrial Organisms. That's part of why it stood out to me.
Yeah I remember that, just took it as a reference rather than referring to any particular designation (perhaps to what the McArthur unit referred them as). My guess is that they simply adopted "Titans" as a proper term for them to classify those creatures by without acronyms after they were no longer in secrecy.

I will say that it is strange how the 2014 MUTOs just got stuck as MUTOs from now on lol. Honestly would have preferred Jinshin-Mushi as a proper name for them.
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Post by ernesth100 »

I feel like there's enough connective tissue between the movies for them to fix the timeline and canon. If only they wanted the effort.
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Post by MegaEvilSaurus666 »

Jermobooka wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:58 am
MegaEvilSaurus666 wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:43 am Harping on ze realizmz in a movie series about ginormous, intelligent monsters and how those ginourmous, intelligent monsters don’t act like normal animals
Ahhhh, classic MGE :lol:

Jokes aside, I think the main thing here is that you’re treating the titans like they’re just big animals, which they’re not. That’s why they’re branded as “Titans” and not “Kaiju” or “MUTO’s”. They’re not simply “giant monsters” or “big animals”, they’re godlike creatures with insane powers/abilities that inspired myths, legends, and various tales. Animals might not bow to stronger animals, but Titans do bow to stronger Titans, with a fairly odd hierarchy system to boot

You’re sorta right about the MUTO thing though. Bit of a continuity error i suppose. You could make the case that since the Queen MUTO was the last of her kind as Goji is significantly stronger she didn’t want to die and to possibly fulfill her parasitic tendencies at a later, more timely date
It's MES, not MGE.

But no, I'm merely pointing out that it doesn't fit with what was established prior to GKOTM. I didn't mention realism, once again. We're discussing different interpretations within fiction; there's not much that's realistic about it. GKOTM makes the monsters all "god-like" when in the previous movies, they're portrayed as massive, mysterious, prehistoric creatures. Like living fossils, there's something fascinating in that concept. They're like gods to humans, not actually gods. The legends they inspired where not exact to their appearances, status, or abilities. Take a look at 5146_ADAM, known as "Dagon" or "Raijin." Is Godzilla a lightning god? Does Godzilla represent the real-life Raijin in any way? Does it look like any of his species would be lightning gods? Storm gods? Merman fish-gods of fertility (crops)? Of course not. They have predator - prey relationships, biological processes, animalistic and instinctual behaviors. They were clearly more of bizarre creatures from a different time, not actual deities.

When the series started doing more and more of its own mythology rather than going with the idea that these fictional creatures inspired the mythological creatures, which were shown as imperfect descriptions and depictions from mere glimpses and interpretations, I knew the point was lost. Gareth Edwards had the fun idea in designing this Godzilla that the original 1954 Godzilla was based on a living creature, and this was supposed to be that creature. It was an interesting and refreshing way of looking at it. But now it's all about Titans, the first gods, ancient wars, Alphas and Alpha frequencies, absurdly massive structures made for Kong in a Hollow Earth. Iwi are based on actual Māori people in real life of the same name, but here, they've been with Kong's species for a long time. I heard something about them being from the Hollow Earth? That's just wrong. If they had just ended up on Skull Island, that would have been much better. I get that it's fiction, but it's weird. :lol:

It's not really what I was a fan of in 2014 - 2017 anymore. I'd probably be fine with it if this was the original direction, but it wasn't at all. The monsters would've been designed differently if that were the case.

A side note, I personally feel that many of the MonsterVerse creatures based on cryptids shouldn't be anything close to Godzilla's size. Not everything needs to be as enormous or radioactive as Godzilla. I think that's kinda lame. Makes things boring.
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Re: Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

Post by miguelnuva »

MegaEvilSaurus666 wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:55 pm
Jermobooka wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:58 am
MegaEvilSaurus666 wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:43 am Harping on ze realizmz in a movie series about ginormous, intelligent monsters and how those ginourmous, intelligent monsters don’t act like normal animals
Ahhhh, classic MGE :lol:

Jokes aside, I think the main thing here is that you’re treating the titans like they’re just big animals, which they’re not. That’s why they’re branded as “Titans” and not “Kaiju” or “MUTO’s”. They’re not simply “giant monsters” or “big animals”, they’re godlike creatures with insane powers/abilities that inspired myths, legends, and various tales. Animals might not bow to stronger animals, but Titans do bow to stronger Titans, with a fairly odd hierarchy system to boot

You’re sorta right about the MUTO thing though. Bit of a continuity error i suppose. You could make the case that since the Queen MUTO was the last of her kind as Goji is significantly stronger she didn’t want to die and to possibly fulfill her parasitic tendencies at a later, more timely date
It's MES, not MGE.

But no, I'm merely pointing out that it doesn't fit with what was established prior to GKOTM. I didn't mention realism, once again. We're discussing different interpretations within fiction; there's not much that's realistic about it. GKOTM makes the monsters all "god-like" when in the previous movies, they're portrayed as massive, mysterious, prehistoric creatures. Like living fossils, there's something fascinating in that concept. They're like gods to humans, not actually gods. The legends they inspired where not exact to their appearances, status, or abilities. Take a look at 5146_ADAM, known as "Dagon" or "Raijin." Is Godzilla a lightning god? Does Godzilla represent the real-life Raijin in any way? Does it look like any of his species would be lightning gods? Storm gods? Merman fish-gods of fertility (crops)? Of course not. They have predator - prey relationships, biological processes, animalistic and instinctual behaviors. They were clearly more of bizarre creatures from a different time, not actual deities.

When the series started doing more and more of its own mythology rather than going with the idea that these fictional creatures inspired the mythological creatures, which were shown as imperfect descriptions and depictions from mere glimpses and interpretations, I knew the point was lost. Gareth Edwards had the fun idea in designing this Godzilla that the original 1954 Godzilla was based on a living creature, and this was supposed to be that creature. It was an interesting and refreshing way of looking at it. But now it's all about Titans, the first gods, ancient wars, Alphas and Alpha frequencies, absurdly massive structures made for Kong in a Hollow Earth. Iwi are based on actual Māori people in real life of the same name, but here, they've been with Kong's species for a long time. I heard something about them being from the Hollow Earth? That's just wrong. If they had just ended up on Skull Island, that would have been much better. I get that it's fiction, but it's weird.

It's not really what I was a fan of in 2014 - 2017 anymore. I'd probably be fine with it if this was the original direction, but it wasn't at all. The monsters would've been designed differently if that were the case.

A side note, I personally feel that many of the MonsterVerse creatures based on cryptids shouldn't be anything close to Godzilla's size. Not everything needs to be as enormous or radioactive as Godzilla. I think that's kinda lame. Makes things boring.
Heisei might be the only series where the lore fits with the first film. Compare Godzilla vs Gigan to Godzilla 1954 for example.

I see where someone would prefer the tone of G14 or even Skull island and yes the MV did change its tone but I don't feel isn't as discontented as you think.

Godzilla is no more a God in G14 then he is in KOTM it's just that now we see more evidence that he is treated as such, even Shin Godzilla some thought was a God when he showed up in that film. Humans worship what they don't understand. Dagon's roar liked sounded like Thunder and his breath could have been thought to be lighting. Godzilla came to stop the Muto's from reproducing, in awakening he stops Shinomura from causing havoc and Prime was calling him out as well. Edwards applied a Predator prey tag to two monsters that just wanted to fight each other. Godzilla never once tries to prey on the Muto. If anything Godzilla is the prey based on G14 and Aftershock and only Shinomura was ever really prey. Godzilla is simply a rival Alpha predator.

The titan concept came up because Dougherty wanted to expand on how Godzilla was the leader in the showa series from DAM-TOMG.

I also don't see how the change in tone has to do with the change in design.
You can put it on my Tombstone Mothra vs Godzilla> Gojira
my personal take

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Re: Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

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Hokmuto wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:46 pm Speaking of alien life, there's this amazing documentary I recommend checking it out about it. Pretty fascinating stuff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThDYazipjSI
Interesting. At a certain point in this episode I started thinking of how the MonsterVerse would integrate some of this logic for how Hedorah could be an actual... thing.

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Re: Godzilla vs. Kong Discussion Thread - FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

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miguelnuva wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:10 pm The titan concept came up because Dougherty wanted to expand on how Godzilla was the leader in the showa series from DAM-TOMG.

I also don't see how the change in tone has to do with the change in design.
The problem I have with that is that this Godzilla is not the Showa series Godzilla. I've mentioned this before.

So you don't see how Legendary's Godzilla was built for the tone and overall feel of the 2014 film? The design has everything to do with the world they're presenting. We would have gotten a different design if this current direction was the intention from the very beginning.
miguelnuva wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:10 pm Heisei might be the only series where the lore fits with the first film. Compare Godzilla vs Gigan to Godzilla 1954 for example.
Why do you keep doing this? There's a difference between a billion dollar Hollywood series that's only four movies in, and low budget kid-centric sequels from the 1970s to a dark and serious, post-war 1950s movie. Godzilla vs. Gigan was the 12th movie in, with Godzilla and Anguirus talking and whatnot, and had cockroach aliens for skreeonk's sake. We should be beyond the cheesy, silly, stock footage ridden 1970s stuff when making comparisons. The movies are of a completely different standard and from different decades. Look to the Heisei Gamera trilogy for your comparisons sometimes. It wasn't afraid to do something new and stick to it.
miguelnuva wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:10 pm Godzilla is no more a God in G14 then he is in KOTM it's just that now we see more evidence that he is treated as such, even Shin Godzilla some thought was a God when he showed up in that film. Humans worship what they don't understand. Dagon's roar liked sounded like Thunder and his breath could have been thought to be lighting. Godzilla came to stop the Muto's from reproducing, in awakening he stops Shinomura from causing havoc and Prime was calling him out as well.
Shouldn't you be saying that to Jermobooka and everyone else who seem to see it a bit differently? :lol:

And, that is exactly my point.
They're like gods to humans, not actually gods. The legends they inspired were not exact to their appearances, status, or abilities. Take a look at 5146_ADAM, known as "Dagon" or "Raijin." Is Godzilla a lightning god? Does Godzilla represent the real-life Raijin in any way? Does it look like any of his species would be lightning gods? Storm gods? Merman fish-gods of fertility (crops)? Of course not.
I'm saying that they shouldn't have this strange Alpha hierarchy, bowing and submitting between them all, especially based on the first two movies. They're not gods, they're seperate species of creatures as seen in 2014 and K:SI. The "Titan" terminology, and "old gods" stuff Dougherty mentioned is obviously trying to connect them to some sort of godlike, spiritual system. Godzilla being able to sense all sorts of things across the planet is more of that. I preferred the MUTO terminology over the Titan thing. The Alpha frequencies thing is just odd. Submission is intraspecific, like I said.
miguelnuva wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:10 pm Godzilla never once tries to prey on the Muto. If anything Godzilla is the prey based on G14 and Aftershock and only Shinomura was ever really prey. Godzilla is simply a rival Alpha predator.
Apex predators don't just hunt down and kill other animals to eat them. They hunt and kill what they see as pests and competition as well. The more intelligent an apex predator, the more often they'll target or "prey" upon subjects that are not just for consumption. Orcas, seals, bears, and lions may kill to eat, or for the sake of killing. Almost all apes pursue and kill pests and competition, and humans are the only commonly predatory (omnivorous) apes other than chimpanzees (gorillas do occasionally eat monkeys). Bears kill wolves, and lions kill hyenas (and vice-versa for the latter example). Lions rarely eat hyenas. Godzilla could have eaten MUTOs on occasion. We never saw that. He doesn't have to in order to hunt and kill them, though.

Anyway, my point was that the creatures in the MonsterVerse as a whole have predator - prey relationships; it was not about Godzilla specifically. They simply shouldn't bow and submit. You seem to have misunderstood me.
I'd change my username if I had the chance. It's a typo. :lol:

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