Talkback: GMK - Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah (2001)

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Re: GMK

Postby Hedorah » Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:34 am

GMK is simply awesome, I saw it was going to be on SciFi one time and thought "Hey I haven't seen this one before!", recorded it and watched it, I was blown away! Picked it up at FYE a couple weeks later, I love the Godzilla design because he looks simply badass. The fights were epic, and the plot didn't really drag along at all. It would have been great if he had been able to use Anguirus and Varan but oh well at least Baragon stayed.
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Re: GMK

Postby Gorosaurus Rex » Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:07 am

Its my favorite of the millenium films but I don't think its a perfect movie. King Ghidorah being a hero always bothered me, some of the plot points are goofy, and I really don't like the Godzilla suit.

However, when it comes to characters, special effects, action sequences, and creativity it is easily the best out of the newer films.
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Re: GMK

Postby Legionmaster » Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:33 am

Meh. It's ok. Yuri freakin annoys me, but most of the monster scenes are well done, so that's always good.
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Re: GMK - The Negatives

Postby Mecha-Anguirus » Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:03 am

The only thing I dislike about this movie is Baragon's new roar. Ugh. He sounds like a diseased mouse.
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Re: GMK - The Negatives

Postby Legionmaster » Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:16 am

Mecha-Anguirus wrote:The only thing I dislike about this movie is Baragon's new roar. Ugh. He sounds like a diseased mouse.

You've clearly never heard a mouse then. They do these little squeaks.
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Re: GMK - The Negatives

Postby baragon123 » Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:44 pm

I must be to OK with everything because nothing ever really bothered me about GMK. Like Good guy-Ghidorah, the "pot-belly" on Godzilla never bothered me either.
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Re: GMK - The Negatives

Postby TokyoVigilante » Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:16 am

GMK Godzilla is pretty much the best looking Godzilla in the series, sans those white eyes. Just the character of Godzilla bothers me. In the context of the film, Godzilla being villianous makes sense and works. But one of those key-traits of Godzilla was his neutrality, his destruction was a result of his presence, not because he went out of his way to actively destroy and kill people.

It does have my favorite score in the series, a great looking Ghidorah (albiet out of character), and some great action sequences with Baragon and Mothra/Ghidorah.


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Re: GMK - The Negatives

Postby Mac » Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:53 pm

There's no solemn moment where she goes "Hey, stop fighting, we can't beat the poop out of people like we did before. That's what caused all this now." It's quite the opposite. She and her father are all "Good thing those monsters were here to help us beat Godzilla. Thank god we could beat back the reminder of the horrible things we did during the war. Now we can go back to forgetting the Rape of Nanking!"


This is why Godzilla is still alive at the end of the film.

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Re: GMK - The Negatives

Postby Primevalgodzilla V2 » Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:53 pm

don't understand how humor and a somewhat less mature approach is enough to kill the human element in a movie. These are giant monster movies. They're not supposed to be believable. The human characters in Godzilla vs Gigan are pretty stupid but I know a lot of people who enjoy them anyway. I think you hold elements like these up to a very high standard they can't quite meet.


By injected humour, it means forced humour. AKA humour that was pushed into the movie and ended up damaging it. And in general, tthe less mature apporach led to more cliched and boring human plots (ie: GvsHeddy).

Its pretty amazing how we're starting to see "fans" who speak as if they dont even like Godzilla movies.


Who, SS4J? Oh, he probably just doesn't like the post Astro-monsters Showa series as mcuh as the rest of you (just like there are fans who will denounce the Heisei and Mill series). He does seem to enjoy the Mill/Heisei moives alot.
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Re: GMK - The Negatives

Postby kpa » Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:58 pm

Legionmaster wrote:
Arrow wrote:Wow, I had no idea there was such vehemence for Yuri's character. Usually, one of the biggest things I hear about GMK is how much better the human drama is handled than other Godzilla movies, where it's pushed to the side and regulated to explaining the plot and the monsters. Yuri wasn't perfect, but her search for the "truth" as you call it was the point of the movie. Yuri represents those who've "forgotten" Godzilla and are forced to deal with him in the modern era, if I'm understanding this correctly. Her actions in following him and discovering who he is is a main theme of the story. That was the human action.

But it was so shallow and lame! There's a whole book about the guardian monsters, and somehow she and her friend are the only ones who have ever read it?


This complaint makes no sense.... the book was published 60+ years ago and covers one small aspect of Japanese mythology so of course its obscure. I wouldn't expect most of the characters to be familiar with the myth or book any more than I expect most Americans to be familiar with decades-old books about Native American legends. Topics like that appeal to a very small base with the general population not knowing or caring about it.

And that's what we're given in GMK. Rather than "she and her friend are the only ones who have ever read it" we're shown that 1) Yuri and Takeda are also unfamiliar with the book until Takeda discovers it while researching their story (reinforcing that it's an obscure topic, even to the main characters) , and 2) the young officer at the command center is one of that small percentage who knows the legend (showing there are indeed people outside Yuri's circle of friends in the know).

She doesn't actually do any reporting


That's absolutely false. She picks a story no one else is interested in, does research, conducts interviews, follows leads, talks with experts on the topic, goes to historical sites for background info, and reports from the front line. That's quite a bit of work for someone who "doesn't actually do any reporting".

or show any growth as a character.


Again, absolutely false. Yuri starts the film with no compunction over lying or falsifying "evidence" to make a better story. Her father tells her she makes crap and she doesn't care. Later, her father talks about the death of his parents... Takeda is moved to tears, but Yuri secretly records it so she can use it on her show. She's a shallow person who cares nothing about the past or the consequences or her actions as long as she can advance her career.

But covering the return of Godzilla changes all of that because Yuri sees the disastrous results of her way of thinking. As the film progresses, she sees fellow reporters killed, sees the casualties of Godzilla's attacks at the hospital. risks her own life several times, watches soldiers fight and die to protect Japan, and almost loses her father. By the final battle she has gone from lying with ease for a story to being the voice of truth who reminds the public of the sacrifices being made and what they're fighting for. It's a complete change for the character, it's one of the key points of the story, and it's amazing anyone could miss something so obvious.

All she does is basically narrate what's going on in the monster action


That is only one part of what she does. And front line reporting is reporting.

and whine to her dad about how he shouldn't have to fight the guardian monsters. That's barely human action.


In one scene she complains about her dad risking his life against Godzilla (not the Guardian Monsters). He shames her by saying "if not me, than who?" and drives home the nail in the coffin of the "old Yuri". From that point on she supports his decision. It's no accident that, when Tachibana begins to pass out when the sub is inside Godzilla, it's Yuri who appears and urges him to not give up.

She has no motivation for pursuing the old man.


Seriously?! Yuri grew up with a father who lost his parents to Godzilla and who repeatedly talks about the threat of the monster's return. She works on a TV program that does stories about strange phenomena (sort of a HARD COPY meets IN SEARCH OF). The story takes place on the fiftieth anniversary of Godzilla's attack. So of course she has no personal or career motivation to look into reports of monster sightings and an old man proclaiming Godzilla will return. :roll:

She's happily doing her job of making mockumentaries,


You completely misunderstand her character and what she does. Yuri wasn't doing full-on mockumentaries in the style of SPINAL TAP where actors perform a fake documentary; she was a reporter for a news show devoted to weird phenomena like cryptozoology, UFOs, and the supernatural. One can debate whether covering those topics is legit news, but there are certainly plenty of reports and documentaries about them on mainstream news and from respected sources such as National Geographic and the History Channel... and I would imagine news shows about Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster wouldn't be out of the question in a world where Godzilla and other monsters actually exist.

Yuri starts off as a shady reporter who doesn't mind throwing a rock in a lake to punch up a monster story, but she's certainly not the first or last reporter to intentionally lie to make a "better" report.

then all of a sudden decides she wants to do something serious.


Not so. She works on a show that covers monsters and she decides to do another story about a monster.. not exactly a stretch at work for her. It's only as she gets into the Godzilla story that she comes to realize how serious it is and begins to treat it with more credibility than her past reports.

The film completely discredits her father's actions in defeating Godzilla, insisting he give thanks to the guardian monsters,


Wrong again. Tachibana insists that he not get sole credit, which is in keeping with his character. He instead says the honor should also go to his fellow soldiers and the Guardian Beasts. You missed a key point and completely misinterpret that scene, which is not about discrediting Tachibana's actions but rather respecting the sacrifices of all involved.

Also, when Godzilla explodes the first question asked is about Tachibana's safety. And when he turns up alive and well we're shown characters at three different locations smiling or overcome with emotion. There's nothing to even suggest he isn't acknowledged for his actions.

which they basically did nothing.


Again, wrong. It's the combined actions of both sides that lead to Godzilla's defeat.

Mothra transfers her energy to Ghidorah, who then launches the Spirit Ball that creates the wound in Godzilla's shoulder. After Ghidorah's defeat, the energy of all three Guardian Monsters pours into Godzilla's wound and pushes the monster back underwater so Tachibana can attack with his submarine. If Ghidorah hadn't wounded Godzilla, and if the monsters hadn't forced Godzilla to a position where the sub could be used, Tachibana would not have succeeded. All of this happens onscreen in the film.

There isn't any depth to the human action at all.


Well, of course there isn't when you ignore major parts of the story.

Legionmaster wrote:GMK gets grouped with the goodness of the Heisei Shelly films too much. It's the "Kaneko did awesome monster movies! Look at Gamera and GMK!" But that really should just be Gamera. GMK isn't nearly as good as those films.

I thought Yuri's job in working for BS Digital was making mockumentaries, something we see at the beginning of the film. She gets a lead on a new story (against other's approval, mind you - something she expressed disgust at, which contradicts the point that she had been working "happily" for BS Digital and then out of the blue decided to do something else) and follows through with it. We later see her do reporting as she follows Godzilla.

But making mockumentaries isn't anything like journalism.


True, but she wasn't making mockumentaries. She was a reporter for a somewhat-shady news program.

Making mockumentaries is just making a fiction movie/show with a particular style of filmmaking. None of it is actual real journalism. She isn't a reporter, she's an actor.


Like I said, you really misunderstood her job.

And if she didn't like working for them, why does she try so hard to get that guy away from them when he wants them to stop filming? She enjoys her job.


She liked working for them just fine. She just had a different job than you're claiming.

Then, all of a sudden, she decides to be a reporter. Out of nowhere.


No, she went from covering a story about a monster to covering another story about a monster. The latest story just turned out to be more than she anticipated.

And following a monster with a handycam isn't being a reporter.


Good thing she did all the other stuff I mentioned above.

She's just there so we have a reason to follow Godzilla too. She exists simply for the sake of the monster plot.


Not to be a jerk, but it's getting funny how nearly ever sentence you've written contradicts what is actually in the film. it's like you went out of your way to be as wrong as possible.

Yuri is the main character of the story and she intentionally exemplifies the viewpoint (ignoring the past, not worrying about consequences, etc) that is the heart of the film. Where she begins, what she goes through, and what her view is at the end are what the story are what the movie is about. She's not there simply for the monster plot, and saying so shows that you completely missed the whole point.

Her "research" into the guardian monsters is solely to inform the audience that these monsters aren't bad like Godzilla is. That's it.


Beating the dead horse but... wrong again.

Through Yuri's actions the audience learns why Godzilla is back, what role the Sacred Beasts play, why Tachibana has maintained a vigil against Godzilla's return, how she and other characters perceive Godzilla and how those perceptions change throughout the story, etc. If all you got was "guardian monsters are good" it's no wonder you found the story shallow.

And she doesn't show any maturity at the end. She just believes in monsters now.


Again (drumbeat rolling)... wrong. Monsters already existed in the world before the events in GMK so nothing changes there.

Yuri absolutely experiences character growth in GMK because her beliefs and feelings do a 180 from beginning to end. it's all right there in the movie for anyone who bothers to pay attention.

There's no solemn moment where she goes "Hey, stop fighting, we can't beat the poop out of people like we did before. That's what caused all this now." It's quite the opposite. She and her father are all "Good thing those monsters were here to help us beat Godzilla. Thank god we could beat back the reminder of the horrible things we did during the war. Now we can go back to forgetting the Rape of Nanking!"


Not surprisingly, that's the exact opposite of what actually happens in the film. Going point by point....

There's no solemn moment where she goes "Hey, stop fighting, we can't beat the poop out of people like we did before. That's what caused all this now."


Because that's not the point of the story. Japan has not been engaged in any recent aggressive military actions... Tachibana even comments that a true soldier hopes never to face combat... so there's no "Hey, stop fighting" message that Yuri needs to deliver. The film is about remembering/learning from the past and honoring those who sacrifice so as not to repeat past mistakes, and Yuri voices that very message in her last broadcast in which she talks about documenting the efforts of the soldiers fighting to protect Japan and tells the public of their sacrifices. We're shown various characters raptly watching as Yuri speaks so the message is delivered.

It's quite the opposite. She and her father are all "Good thing those monsters were here to help us beat Godzilla.


Opposite, indeed. Yuri salutes Tachibana, and Tachibana asks her not just to credit him but also the other soldiers and the Guardian Monsters. Neither one says anything along the lines of what you claim, but rather to honor and remember sacrifices made.

Thank god we could beat back the reminder of the horrible things we did during the war. Now we can go back to forgetting the Rape of Nanking!"


Godzilla was defeated in 1954, but Tachibana never forgot and devoted his life to protecting his country against the monster's return. Yuri has had her eyes opened and gives a report about a sacrifice and Japan's future. I have no idea why anyone would think the film ends with them having a "Glad that's over! Let's get lunch!" attitude. Even if a viewer completely misunderstands the entire story, the last shot of the movie shows that the threat of Godzilla still exists and can return if the message wasn't received.

The movie is far more shallow than people are willing to see.


Legionmaster, I would never find fault with you (or anyone else) liking or disliking GMK. Opinions are opinions, and to each their own. I like the movie, but it's not the deepest film ever made, it has its faults and I certainly see why others wouldn't care for it. The reason I posted a reply is that every single criticism I read here contradicts what is shown in the film.

To use a universal example for comparison, EMPIRE STRIKES BACK is my favorite STAR WARS film. Even if someone else loathed it I wouldn't care because they're entitled to their opinion. But if someone criticized EMPIRE because of the scene where Darth Vader reveals he's Luke's second cousin twice removed, it's obvious that complaint isn't based on what's actually in the film. And that's basically what I see in your posts regarding GMK; the characters say and do things in the film and you're complaining that they said and did something completely else. You're so far off point again and again that under different circumstances I'd wonder if you'd even seen the movie.

I get that GMK deals with a very Japanese topic that can be easily lost on non-Japanese viewers. I don't consider myself some great genius for following that theme... years ago I'd seen reports on Japanese ignoring WWII so I knew going in what GMK was about. But I am surprised that some viewers can be confused by much more basic story points such as character arcs, basic dialogue, and onscreen action which are pretty direct. For example, Ghidorah's role in Godzilla defeat is shown clearly-- the camera zooms in for a closeup on the wound in Godzilla's neck as a big clue to the viewer, Tachibana targets that wound, there's a another closeup of the drill missile tearing through the wound, and Godzilla ray comes blasting out of it-- so I don't understand how someone can watch the movie and come way thinking the Guardian Monsters "basically did nothing". You don't need to know subtext or interpretation... heck, you don't even need to understand the dialogue to follow the visuals and see that Ghidorah sets up the "kill shot". That's just basic, Storytelling 101 stuff.

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Re: GMK - The Negatives

Postby Arrow » Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:55 pm

kpa, I don't know if you got my PM or not but thanks for the info. I see I was WAY off the mark with this movie (that's what happens when all you have is a dubtitled version). It's always nice to learn more about it. And pretty nice to see the movie vindicated.

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Re: GMK - The Negatives

Postby GodzillaDude » Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:55 am

I only have 1 major problem with GMK and that is King Ghidorah. He has always been my favorite Godzilla opponet but I hated how they turned he into a good guy and how he was actually smaller then Godzilla which made it even worse. Godzilla also seemed to be way more powerful then King Ghidorah then he should be.
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Re: GMK - The Negatives

Postby g2kmaster » Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:51 am

Legion1979 wrote:Wow, that's one hell of a first post, Keith.


I second the notion. Always enjoy reading his posts.

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Re: GMK - The Negatives

Postby JVM » Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:55 pm

I will say my thoughts on GMK have improved. I still don't believe it's the "best since the original" (although I've yet to see that exact praise return) but I've lightened up on a lot of aspects - Ghidorah as a hero bothers me less, and Godzilla's full design does as well, although I still feel the film has weak points. I won't go into detail without a full refresher.
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Re: GMK - The Negatives

Postby Zillaowner » Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:42 pm

Ghidorah and Mothra roles

Godzilla's belly
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Re: GMK

Postby godzilla1996 » Tue Aug 10, 2010 12:32 pm

This is the best millenium film. Everything is great. I like how they brought back the blue breath. The suit is awesome. It's like a cross between the original, and the Heisei. I hoe Kankeo can do a sequel, because it would be great!
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Re: GMK

Postby GodzillaDude » Tue Aug 10, 2010 1:36 pm

GMK is without a doubt the best of the Millennium series. It is my second favorite Millennium Godzilla film. The first being Godzilla 2000. I actually cared about the human characters this time around! There are a few things I dislike about it. I don't like King Ghidorah being the "good guy". I also think he was made out to seem a lot less powerful then Godzilla then he should be. My main pick with Ghidorah in this film though is his size....since when is he actually smaller then Godzilla height wise? Ghidorah is what keeps this film from being #1 in the Millennium series.
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Re: GMK

Postby Goji » Thu Aug 12, 2010 2:27 pm

Legionmaster wrote:Meh. It's ok. Yuri freakin annoys me, but most of the monster scenes are well done, so that's always good.


Yeah...she's started to annoy me more over time. At least she's nice to look at.

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Re: GMK

Postby Legionmaster » Thu Aug 12, 2010 5:25 pm

Goji wrote:
Legionmaster wrote:Meh. It's ok. Yuri freakin annoys me, but most of the monster scenes are well done, so that's always good.


Yeah...she's started to annoy me more over time. At least she's nice to look at.

She's waaaaay overacting. It ends up just being way too bubbley and then all of a sudden super serious mode sets in.
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Re: GMK

Postby DaikaijuSokogeki! » Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:15 am

Hands down my favorite Godzilla film if you couldn't tell from my username. The movie takes its time to set up its characters and story, the monster action is entertaining and suspenseful, the music score is at times chilling and at others empowering, the FX aside from a few CG shots look incredible, and so on. This film just clicked with me. The characters are some of my favorites in the entire franchise, namely because they are three-dimensional and have unique personalities. The theme Kaneko pushes here is worth watching as well, something that's totally lost in the English dub. It may not be very subtle, but it packs a punch like Honda's earliest entries. On that note, GMK also serves as a remarkable tribute to the Showa films. Unlike other Millennium entries, it tips its hat to the genre while managing to do its own spin.

This movie above all else makes me really wish Kaneko would return to the kaiju genre. While his Death Note films are entertaining, he seems so comfortable when he's working on a kaiju film. I just wish Toho gave Kaneko more time and creative control, then we could've seen something that may have been as technically impressive as his Gamera trilogy.


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