Talkback: GMK - Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah (2001)

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Re: Talkback: GMK - Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah (2001)

Postby ernesth100 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:44 am

PitchBlackProgress wrote:
ernesth100 wrote:
Living Corpse wrote:Can we all acknowledge the idea of a Godzilla powered by ghosts is a pretty terrifying concept?

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A character with no remorse for it's wrong doings.

… he’s a skreeonking animal…

No, I don't mean like that.

Since he's possessed he is fueled by human rage and emotion now. Thus, he now has a conscious of more than just an animal. He has feelings, but no remorse in those set of feelings. Likely just rage and sorrow with reoccurring thoughts of disappointment in humanity and obtaining vengeance for the lost souls. Or maybe I'm looking way to deep into the incarnation.

That's another reason I enjoy it. I'd like to think there's more lore behind this version of G. More depth and more than we give it credit for just being a mindless beast hellbent on destruction. But actually a unique concept that honestly deserves to be explored more.
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Re: Talkback: GMK - Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah (2001)

Postby kamilleblu » Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:43 am

Ivo-goji wrote:Though, honestly, I don't believe GMK went anywhere far enough with its supernatural concept. You could have replaced that Godzilla with any other old Godzilla and it would have been about the same. The truly great 'occult Godzilla' movie is yet to be made.

Kaneko probably wanted to go further with the supernatural concept. But it's likely one of the things Toho shot him down on. Seems there was a serious power struggle behind the scenes of GMK. He made some compromises.
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Re: Talkback: GMK - Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah (2001)

Postby GojiDog » Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:30 am

Does anyone else feel like Tachibana needed to die in the end, Serasawa-self-sacrificing style?

I don't know. I felt like they missed a chance to really end the film with a big gut punch by having the film's hero sacrifice himself to stop Godzilla.

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Re: Talkback: GMK - Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah (2001)

Postby eabaker » Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:07 am

GojiDog wrote:Does anyone else feel like Tachibana needed to die in the end, Serasawa-self-sacrificing style?

I don't know. I felt like they missed a chance to really end the film with a big gut punch by having the film's hero sacrifice himself to stop Godzilla.


On first viewing, I was surprised that they didn't go that route, but I think it would have cost them the final character payoff of showing the mutual respect that has grown between father and daughter.
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Re: Talkback: GMK - Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah (2001)

Postby tbeasley » Sun Jul 01, 2018 12:52 pm

I was watching this unlisted video on the making of the GMK Godzilla suit and some things popped out to me -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zF_-7l4qvI

I know they tried making the suit as self-contained as possible, with an animatronic face allowing great expressions, but I was unaware of other features in the suit - like the breathing chest and moveable fins (an idea I like a lot). I don't know if they show up in the movie but they were a surprise to me. You can see these at the tail end off the video.

Another thing is that it's a common bit of trivia that they tried making Godzilla lean over like a T. rex or G98, but I've never seen much evidence to support that - If anything if looks like the maquettes and in progress suit is even more upright with much better posture than he has in the final film, where they had to compromise with the slight hunch giving him his infamous pot belly.

Added in 15 days 23 hours 6 minutes 32 seconds:
tbeasley wrote:Another thing is that it's a common bit of trivia that they tried making Godzilla lean over like a T. rex or G98, but I've never seen much evidence to support that - If anything if looks like the maquettes and in progress suit is even more upright with much better posture than he has in the final film, where they had to compromise with the slight hunch giving him his infamous pot belly.

Never mind. Courtesy of klen7 over at Monster Zero...
Here are some images from the Shogakken Ultimate Collection book dedicated to the film that show some early forward leaning prototypes and maquettes

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Re: Talkback: GMK - Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah (2001)

Postby Godzillian » Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:13 pm

So considering how horrific some of the things Japan did during the war was and the all around attitude the Japanese government has towards them, I can sympathize with Godzilla in this film
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Re: Talkback: GMK - Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah (2001)

Postby HeiseiGodzilla117 » Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:39 pm

tbeasley wrote: pics




There is an uncanny resemblance to the Delgado Godzilla design in these pictures. At least, I think it's the Delgado one I'm thinking of. I get mixed up on some of those pre-98 Tristar Godzilla designs. But the forward leaning posture as well as features like the spines and head really remind me of that design. Was the Delgado(?) design perhaps an inspiration for GMK Godzilla?

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Re: Talkback: GMK - Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah (2001)

Postby Dr. Professor » Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:39 pm

HeiseiGodzilla117 wrote:
tbeasley wrote: pics




There is an uncanny resemblance to the Delgado Godzilla design in these pictures. At least, I think it's the Delgado one I'm thinking of. I get mixed up on some of those pre-98 Tristar Godzilla designs. But the forward leaning posture as well as features like the spines and head really remind me of that design. Was the Delgado(?) design perhaps an inspiration for GMK Godzilla?

I can't say if it was inspiration, but the Delgado is what you're thinking of.
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Re: Talkback: GMK - Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah (2001)

Postby Godzillian » Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:31 am

The more I think about the Godzilla in this film the less I think of it as a straight up bad guy and more of a morally grey character
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Re: Talkback: GMK - Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah (2001)

Postby MechaGoji Bro7503 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:55 am

So which scene did Shinji Higuchi do the effects for? I'm betting it's the first time Ghidorah gets revived and can fly, but I could be wrong.
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Re: Talkback: GMK - Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah (2001)

Postby kamilleblu » Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:12 pm

MechaGoji Bro7503 wrote:So which scene did Shinji Higuchi do the effects for? I'm betting it's the first time Ghidorah gets revived and can fly, but I could be wrong.

Higuchi handled the sequence where the JSDF battles Godzilla in the countryside. Probably one of the better examples of military against monster action in the series.
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Re: Talkback: GMK - Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah (2001)

Postby MechaGoji Bro7503 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:23 pm

kamilleblu wrote:
MechaGoji Bro7503 wrote:So which scene did Shinji Higuchi do the effects for? I'm betting it's the first time Ghidorah gets revived and can fly, but I could be wrong.

Higuchi handled the sequence where the JSDF battles Godzilla in the countryside. Probably one of the better examples of military against monster action in the series.

Ah, looking back yeah that whole scene feels like one of his especially after watching the military assault in Shin! Thanks.
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Re: Talkback: GMK - Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah (2001)

Postby UltramanGoji » Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:20 pm

Just rewatched this film for the first time in years. My original thoughts going in was that it was overrated and people only liked it for the large amount of effects sequences.

But...wow, I was floored by just how fantastic this movie is.

Not only are the main characters likeable and well-written, even the side characters shine with little touches of personality that make them stand out more among the crowd of forgettableness that is the Millenium series. The station head at BS Digital Q always popping in and out of scenes with his aloofness (one of my favorite little scenes is when he seems offended by his employee calling the station "the trash bin of TV"), Yuri's coworker who develops the mini-crush on her and is intimidated by Takeda's appearance, even the bicycle shop owner gets a small chuckle out of me for mistaking Yuri's company name with that of Bridgestone (this might not be on the R1 subtitles, but it was in my bootleg BR).

Yuri herself is a great character. She's persistent, courageous, and reminds me a lot of April O'Neil in that she'll do anything to get a story. I really like how she's kind of an antithesis to the military characters in this film.

Admiral Tachibana is probably the films greatest character. Despite his position among the military he still doesn't fully believe in the actions of his country. He’s one of the few to listen to Yuri about the guardian monsters and actually believe that they’re trying to help instead of attacking them. The rest of his peers don’t really think of the monsters as anything other than targets like Godzilla...until the third act when Yuri broadcasts her message on TV and everyone realizes that it's not Japan against the monsters, but Japan and its guardians against Godzilla. There’s one scene towards the end of the film right after Ghidorah is awakened where Tachibana addresses troops onboard a naval ship and tells them that non-combat is the best honor (or something to that effect, I'm probably quoting it incorrectly). The others look at him bewildered but he stands by his word.

Another great moment in the film is when Admiral Tachibana questions the defense minister‘s choice to keep the real Godzilla‘s death a secret. He claims that if the public knew, there would be a cry for disarmament and that saying Godzilla was killed by military power than by a third party was to get people to have more faith in the military. Tachibana looks dismayed and disappointed when hearing this. Kaneko is criticizing the Japanese government for keeping secrets, being incompetent, and hiding and hand waving things. The acts of censorship for the wartime deaths, as well as the first Godzilla‘s, are one in the same. Both are horrible truths that ultimately should be acknowledge and shared with the public but due to that sense of pride, they are either out right ignored or denied and replaced with extremely patriotic tendencies that are rightly critiqued by the film's characters. In a way, this is what actually makes Yuri’s character so great. While the government is actively denying facts about Godzilla and the monsters, she’s pursuing them, quite literally. Her mantra is “the truth is out there” and she’s going to be the one to show the truth to the Japanese public.

We are also shown that the Japanese government really has no idea what they’re doing. It's very similar to the ideas behind Shin Godzilla. One scene that shows this well is the scene where the jet fighters attack Godzilla. The missiles aren't affecting it at all and the commander says that they’re not doing it at the right angle, which prompts one of the pilots to say that it’s not the angle that’s the problem. That’s a subtle, but really well done character moment in this film. And then right after this scene, the defense commander is going over his notes for what to do next and Tachibana just gives this hopeless look that really sells the incompetence in front of him.

Cinematography is also super important in GMK and it's one of the best shot of all the series. There’s lots of really cool angles and framing devices that Kaneko uses and he’s very much a visual director. It really has a different feel from all the other Millennium movies. Effects are also well done too, even the CGI. I dare say it's probably the best CGI in any pre-Shin Toho film.

All together, this film was really a big surprise to me. I'm glad it shattered my expectations and it's quickly become one of my new favorites of the entire franchise. I think it's definitely a lot more intelligent than it lets on and fans should definitely give it a rewatch with these themes in mind. You might find yourself appreciating it a lot more.
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Re: Talkback: GMK - Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah (2001)

Postby MrGoji1999 » Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:26 pm

UltramanGoji wrote:Just rewatched this film for the first time in years. My original thoughts going in was that it was overrated and people only liked it for the large amount of effects sequences.

But...wow, I was floored by just how fantastic this movie is.

Not only are the main characters likeable and well-written, even the side characters shine with little touches of personality that make them stand out more among the crowd of forgettableness that is the Millenium series. The station head at BS Digital Q always popping in and out of scenes with his aloofness (one of my favorite little scenes is when he seems offended by his employee calling the station "the trash bin of TV"), Yuri's coworker who develops the mini-crush on her and is intimidated by Takeda's appearance, even the bicycle shop owner gets a small chuckle out of me for mistaking Yuri's company name with that of Bridgestone (this might not be on the R1 subtitles, but it was in my bootleg BR).

Yuri herself is a great character. She's persistent, courageous, and reminds me a lot of April O'Neil in that she'll do anything to get a story. I really like how she's kind of an antithesis to the military characters in this film.

Admiral Tachibana is probably the films greatest character. Despite his position among the military he still doesn't fully believe in the actions of his country. He’s one of the few to listen to Yuri about the guardian monsters and actually believe that they’re trying to help instead of attacking them. The rest of his peers don’t really think of the monsters as anything other than targets like Godzilla...until the third act when Yuri broadcasts her message on TV and everyone realizes that it's not Japan against the monsters, but Japan and its guardians against Godzilla. There’s one scene towards the end of the film right after Ghidorah is awakened where Tachibana addresses troops onboard a naval ship and tells them that non-combat is the best honor (or something to that effect, I'm probably quoting it incorrectly). The others look at him bewildered but he stands by his word.

Another great moment in the film is when Admiral Tachibana questions the defense minister‘s choice to keep the real Godzilla‘s death a secret. He claims that if the public knew, there would be a cry for disarmament and that saying Godzilla was killed by military power than by a third party was to get people to have more faith in the military. Tachibana looks dismayed and disappointed when hearing this. Kaneko is criticizing the Japanese government for keeping secrets, being incompetent, and hiding and hand waving things. The acts of censorship for the wartime deaths, as well as the first Godzilla‘s, are one in the same. Both are horrible truths that ultimately should be acknowledge and shared with the public but due to that sense of pride, they are either out right ignored or denied and replaced with extremely patriotic tendencies that are rightly critiqued by the film's characters. In a way, this is what actually makes Yuri’s character so great. While the government is actively denying facts about Godzilla and the monsters, she’s pursuing them, quite literally. Her mantra is “the truth is out there” and she’s going to be the one to show the truth to the Japanese public.

We are also shown that the Japanese government really has no idea what they’re doing. It's very similar to the ideas behind Shin Godzilla. One scene that shows this well is the scene where the jet fighters attack Godzilla. The missiles aren't affecting it at all and the commander says that they’re not doing it at the right angle, which prompts one of the pilots to say that it’s not the angle that’s the problem. That’s a subtle, but really well done character moment in this film. And then right after this scene, the defense commander is going over his notes for what to do next and Tachibana just gives this hopeless look that really sells the incompetence in front of him.

Cinematography is also super important in GMK and it's one of the best shot of all the series. There’s lots of really cool angles and framing devices that Kaneko uses and he’s very much a visual director. It really has a different feel from all the other Millennium movies. Effects are also well done too, even the CGI. I dare say it's probably the best CGI in any pre-Shin Toho film.

All together, this film was really a big surprise to me. I'm glad it shattered my expectations and it's quickly become one of my new favorites of the entire franchise. I think it's definitely a lot more intelligent than it lets on and fans should definitely give it a rewatch with these themes in mind. You might find yourself appreciating it a lot more.


100% agree, man! The special effects are fantastic of course, but the story, characters, direction, themes, writing and cinematography are what makes the film so good to me. Yuri and General Tachibana are easily among my favorite characters in the franchise, and what you said is why I like them so much.

I always thought that GMK was kind of an influence to Shin Godzilla, given that both films are very critical about the Japanese government´s incompetence, and both films had characters being skeptical about the government, and even then with all this criticism, both films had moments of hope when things could change for the better of Japan. I think both Kaneko and Anno nailed those themes, making both GMK and Shin engaging films about Japan´s government!
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Re: Talkback: GMK - Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah (2001)

Postby LegendZilla » Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:08 pm

It frankly astounds me as to why the role reversal of Ghidorah in this film would garner less controversy than let’s say the time travel of GVKG.
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Re: Talkback: GMK - Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah (2001)

Postby eabaker » Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:10 pm

LegendZilla wrote:It frankly astounds me as to why the role reversal of Ghidorah in this film would garner less controversy than let’s say the time travel of GVKG.


I don't know that it did garner less controversy (a lot of people cite it as a major problem with the movie); there's just a lot less to say about it.
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Re: Talkback: GMK - Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah (2001)

Postby tbeasley » Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:09 am

Here's a better pic of the leaning posture (courtesy of Gman2887 over at MZ) -
Image

MechaGoji Bro7503 wrote:
kamilleblu wrote:
MechaGoji Bro7503 wrote:So which scene did Shinji Higuchi do the effects for? I'm betting it's the first time Ghidorah gets revived and can fly, but I could be wrong.

Higuchi handled the sequence where the JSDF battles Godzilla in the countryside. Probably one of the better examples of military against monster action in the series.

Ah, looking back yeah that whole scene feels like one of his especially after watching the military assault in Shin! Thanks.

Could be wrong but I think Higuchi debunked this during his appearance at Gfest. He was involved during some stage in early production, though.

I've always wondered why Kaneko didn't bring over more of his collaborators from the Gamera trilogy for GMK.
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Re: Talkback: GMK - Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah (2001)

Postby eabaker » Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:20 am

tbeasley wrote:I've always wondered why Kaneko didn't bring over more of his collaborators from the Gamera trilogy for GMK.


I always assumed (no sources to back this up) that it was because of Toho's preference for working with employees they had under contract.
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Re: Talkback: GMK - Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah (2001)

Postby Godzillian » Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:34 am

Surprised Toho was gonna let them have Godzilla position is body parallel to the ground like Zilla, it would have been interesting to see onscreen in suit mation
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Re: Talkback: GMK - Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah (2001)

Postby LegendZilla » Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:23 pm

To help better understand my disdain for how Godzilla (as well as Ghidorah) was handled in this film, look at things this way :

Imagine if they rebooted Nightmare on Elm Street. Let's say that instead of being a demonic ghost that lurks in people's dreams to kill them, he turns out to be a normal human who mysteriously disappeared after being in a burning building. Unlike the classic Freddy who died in the ordeal, he survives and therefore does not become a supernatural entity with any superpowers whatsoever.

Rather than being a child murderer and/or molester, he just so happened to be a policeman who presumably died in a fire trying to save children. Afterwards, he does not become the paranormal boogeyman we all know who murders innocent and unsuspecting victims in their sleep, but instead, a disfigured vigilante who only kills child predators or any evildoer for whatever crime they commit. However, Freddy still looks the part, maintains his trademark dark humor and kills in creative ways. So therefore, everything will automatically be fine right? Would you be perfectly fine with such a interpretation of the character as long as everything else about the film is objectively good?
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