Monster Discussion: Godzilla (2001/GMK)

For the discussion of Toho produced and distributed films or shows released from 1999 to 2015.
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Re: GMK Godzilla, Possibly the Most Powerful?

Postby GodzillaSpawn » Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:38 am

Reaper Man wrote:No, I think not. His opponents weren't as formidable as many other Godzillas. Really, the only reason some people think he's the most powerful is because of the mushroom cloud scene.


If you read my first post on this page....I think I have several more reasons than that. Though I'm still thinking Final Wars might be more powerful.

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Re: GMK Godzilla, Possibly the Most Powerful?

Postby Llante » Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:25 pm

Mushroom Cloud < Global Nuclear Meltdown
Mushroom Cloud < Keizer Goji Beam

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Re: GMK Godzilla, Possibly the Most Powerful?

Postby GodzillaSpawn » Sun Aug 26, 2012 3:00 pm

How is the power of the meltdown ray measured? His ray didn't have enough force to form a mushroom cloud in the film. And he shot off Destroyah's ear but that may have as much to do with Destroyah's physical nature as much as Godzilla's power. Burning Godzilla didn't even kill Destroyah...but GMK Goji's ray made Baragon, Mothra and King Ghidorah blow up. I'm simply asking, objectionably. The kinetic force of GMK Goji can be measured to the impact cloud it makes. Am I missing something with Burning G?

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Re: GMK Godzilla, Possibly the Most Powerful?

Postby Godzilla165 » Sun Aug 26, 2012 3:45 pm

The cloud was really nothing more than symbolic, he didn't make it anymore throughout the movie. I could make th same cloud with a powerful enough firecracker rigged on the ground. If Godzilla's beam was that strong, it would have made the same exact effect every time it made impact with something. It has been argued that Baragon and Mothra both burst into pixy dust, and did it intentionally. Mothra did it to power up Ghidorah, and Baragon did it also for some random reason. I personally think that FW Godzilla is the strongest, because he is the most mobile, retaliates when someone or something tries to attack him, and has the strongest power up mode that every other Godzilla can't match. Being able to kick Keizer Ghidorah's head, and send him flying several feet. Plus, his beam is able to break through Earth's atmosphere and travel into space. He also tanked two gigantic explosions without a scratch. Burning Godzilla may have been able to destroy the world, but all he did was spam his beam and rarely went head to head with Destroyah except once. GMK Godzilla is in third for being the strongest in my honest opinion.
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Re: GMK Godzilla, Possibly the Most Powerful?

Postby GodzillaSpawn » Sun Aug 26, 2012 5:27 pm

Godzilla165 wrote:The cloud was really nothing more than symbolic, he didn't make it anymore throughout the movie. I could make th same cloud with a powerful enough firecracker rigged on the ground. If Godzilla's beam was that strong, it would have made the same exact effect every time it made impact with something. It has been argued that Baragon and Mothra both burst into pixy dust, and did it intentionally. Mothra did it to power up Ghidorah, and Baragon did it also for some random reason. I personally think that FW Godzilla is the strongest, because he is the most mobile, retaliates when someone or something tries to attack him, and has the strongest power up mode that every other Godzilla can't match. Being able to kick Keizer Ghidorah's head, and send him flying several feet. Plus, his beam is able to break through Earth's atmosphere and travel into space. He also tanked two gigantic explosions without a scratch. Burning Godzilla may have been able to destroy the world, but all he did was spam his beam and rarely went head to head with Destroyah except once. GMK Godzilla is in third for being the strongest in my honest opinion.


Okay, first off, I'd love to see you make a mushroom cloud with firecrackers that is seen many miles away (and don't forget the flash--double entendre!). You might be able to make a nice tiny cloud on your street or something. But this is completely different.
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That cloud, while might serve a dual purpose of being symbolic as well, is canon in this film. It's been argued that the first blast was strongest because it was building-up power over all those years. Do I like this theory? No. But it's no worse than the one you offered about Baragon bursting intentionally, which sounds very silly to me. My point is, with the ray, it can't be tossed out if it happened in the movie.

And just to go in a bit more detail regarding the souls. I would think they all just die in that same fashion because they are three mythic monsters. Had Baragon died next to Mothra or KG he would be able to join his spirit with them much like Mothra did with KG. But Baragon died alone. In fact, it was a massacre. Point is, Godzilla's ray sent three monsters completely ablaze and was strong enough to blow fully-developed KG into shark bait, even if it was after Godzilla absorbed KG's energy.

Your Final Wars analysis I agree 100%. I'm just trying to figure out which part of Burning Godzilla's ray proves it was stronger than GMK's aside from one Super X-III pilot's well-developed hypothesis: His ray has gotten stronger.
Last edited by GodzillaSpawn on Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: GMK Godzilla, Possibly the Most Powerful?

Postby Godzilla165 » Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:07 pm

^ Maybe it just got much hotter. Heisei's breath really has no force at all, its all just heat and explosive power. I know I couldn't make a mushroom cloud big enough to be seen miles away by one firecracker (I would need the whole world's supply to even attempt it), I was just pointing out that the mushroom cloud was only a symbolic thing, meant to show Godzilla's mutated from nuclear testing origin. If his beam had been that strong, it would have destroyed all three monsters with one blast, and level Tokyo with just a few. GMK's beam is what appears to be based mostly on kinetic force, and heat thrown in for good measure. FW has heat, force, a shitload of power, and explosive properties as well. I'm with you also on GMK's mushroom making beam merely being energy stored over years, I don't like that theory as well. His final ray that completely decimated KG was due to him being power up by KG's gravity bolts, we saw what his regular beam did to KG in the ocean, it just knocked him out.
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Re: GMK Godzilla, Possibly the Most Powerful?

Postby Bentley » Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:06 pm

We should assume that Godzilla could do that kind of blast but decided not to do it the rest of the movie, it is the simplest explanation because we don't assume a bunch of things that weren't seen on screen.

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Re: GMK Godzilla, Possibly the Most Powerful?

Postby Carthormerr » Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:11 pm

Tyler wrote:I thought it was from the sub he sucked dry plus charging his funs for a long time.


This is the best explanation that I've seen
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Re: GMK Godzilla, Possibly the Most Powerful?

Postby Alexzilla408 » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:12 pm

I'm going to have to go with FW Godzilla. He walked through some pretty tough Kaiju with incredible ease. His ray was extremely power and had pinpoint accuracy for MILES.
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Re: GMK Godzilla, Possibly the Most Powerful?

Postby Alexzilla408 » Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:01 am

Legion1979 wrote:
Alexzilla408 wrote:I'm going to have to go with FW Godzilla. He walked through some pretty tough Kaiju with incredible ease.


He did? I don't remember any of the monsters Godzilla "walked through" being all that tough.


Hedorah is widely regarded around here as one of Godzilla's most powerful enemies. Taking down Rodan, King Ceasar, and Rodan simultaneously is pretty impressive to me. Gigan was no slouch either. And then after all that, he defeated Monster X/Keiser Ghidorah.

I don't see how GMK Godzilla's accomplishments rival that.
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Re: GMK Godzilla, Possibly the Most Powerful?

Postby HeiseiGodzilla117 » Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:53 am

Alexzilla408 wrote: Showa Hedorah is widely regarded around here as one of Godzilla's most powerful enemies.


Fixed that for you. Final Wars kaiju are different from their previous counterparts. The majority of them don't display the same strengths from their prior films.

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Re: GMK Godzilla, Possibly the Most Powerful?

Postby Alexzilla408 » Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:24 am

Valid point. With that said, he still defeated a bunch of monsters with ease. Their respective formidibilities, while debatable, when accumulated were pretty great. He stood at the epicenter of Monster X's landing which looked to be equivalent to that of a nuclear weapon, based on the aftermath. He threw monsters over the horizon (cheesy yes, but he did it). He decapitated Gigan with one beam, and evaporated KG into space with a single, supercharged beam.
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Re: GMK Godzilla, Possibly the Most Powerful?

Postby Kiryu2012 » Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:15 pm

I see neither GMK Godzilla nor FW Godzilla being the most powerful of Godzillas. I believe that title goes to Burning Godzilla. GMK Godzilla's atomic ray takes a long-ass time to charge up, and he doesn't even have regen. FW Godzilla is simply average, and all the monsters he 'plowed through' were just weak, especially Keizer Ghidorah, whom I find to be even weaker than his previous form. He was even having trouble with King Ceaser, Anguirus, and Rodan before he eventually fought Monster X, who is also just average. And I certainly don't see Ozaki-charged Godzilla to be a 'hybrid of all film incarnations of Godzilla'. Burning Godzilla is the one who should be considered the strongest, since he has the power to destroy the planet and is just firing away with Spiral Beams, which get even stronger as his temperature rises. GMK Godzilla and FW Godzilla are just average in my book.
My most wanted fight ever is Discord vs Bobobo-bo bo-bobo.
Godzilla has a regen like Wolverine, a skin like Luke Cage, a hero aura like Captain America, a strength like Hulk, an unstoppability like Juggernaut, an immortality like Deadpool.

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Holy poop man.


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Re: GMK Godzilla, Possibly the Most Powerful?

Postby Alexzilla408 » Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:49 pm

Kiryu2012 wrote:I see neither GMK Godzilla nor FW Godzilla being the most powerful of Godzillas. I believe that title goes to Burning Godzilla. GMK Godzilla's atomic ray takes a long-ass time to charge up, and he doesn't even have regen. FW Godzilla is simply average, and all the monsters he 'plowed through' were just weak, especially Keizer Ghidorah, whom I find to be even weaker than his previous form. He was even having trouble with King Ceaser, Anguirus, and Rodan before he eventually fought Monster X, who is also just average. And I certainly don't see Ozaki-charged Godzilla to be a 'hybrid of all film incarnations of Godzilla'. Burning Godzilla is the one who should be considered the strongest, since he has the power to destroy the planet and is just firing away with Spiral Beams, which get even stronger as his temperature rises. GMK Godzilla and FW Godzilla are just average in my book.


The only problem that I have with Burning Godzilla is that his power was ultimately the direct reason for his own death. I do agree with you that he had the most gross power, but in a fight, his death would always be inevitable, where as Final or GMK Godzilla did not have that problem. I definitely understand your point of view. At the same token, if we're talking about how badly they could devastate earth, I would tend to agree more with you. I guess it all hinges on what we mean by powerful.

However, I also must say that both GMK and Final Godzilla are above average. First we must define what "average" Godzilla is. I would say that it is Showa Godzilla, but that is a whole other debate, which I would be open to as well. With that said, I think it's fair to say that all three mentioned iterations of Godzilla would defeat the Showa version.
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Re: GMK Godzilla, Possibly the Most Powerful?

Postby MasonWerx » Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:10 pm

^^^

It reminds me of back when Dragonball Z was big. When the power levels got so high that they started breaking all the power level meters and they stopped giving numbers for the power levels there were endless charts of hypothetical power levels all over the net and few of them agreed. I enjoyed DBZ, but there were a couple of kids at my school who would print out these charts, compare them and argue over them even thought they were pure speculation. I had never posted on a forum at that time, but I'm sure that the DBZ forums were lit up with very similar speculative arguments. You've just got to let the nerds nerd out on that kind of stuff.

If these types of arguments could be settled by a duel then I'd love to see that. That would be the ultimate payoff.

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Re: GMK Godzilla, Possibly the Most Powerful?

Postby Alexzilla408 » Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:48 am

Godzilla 2000 wrote:I think that at this point, we should ask ourselves some very serious questions;

Who cares which Godzilla is the most powerful? Does it REALLY matter? Does it affect your enjoyment of the films? Will the knowledge of which is the strongest improve your life in any way?

I cant fathom this incessant need to determine/prove which Godzilla is the strongest of them all. I think it's some kind of stupid Fantasy Match mentality at work. "Who cant beat who" seems to be the most important kind of discussion, sometimes.


I'm just discussing it for fun, because I just found this forum where I can actually discuss my favorite movie series with other people. I have never had this opportunity to be honest. It's just a fun conversation.
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Re: GMK Godzilla, Possibly the Most Powerful?

Postby Mincecraft » Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:26 pm

Alexzilla408 wrote:
Godzilla 2000 wrote:I think that at this point, we should ask ourselves some very serious questions;

Who cares which Godzilla is the most powerful? Does it REALLY matter? Does it affect your enjoyment of the films? Will the knowledge of which is the strongest improve your life in any way?

I cant fathom this incessant need to determine/prove which Godzilla is the strongest of them all. I think it's some kind of stupid Fantasy Match mentality at work. "Who cant beat who" seems to be the most important kind of discussion, sometimes.


I'm just discussing it for fun, because I just found this forum where I can actually discuss my favorite movie series with other people. I have never had this opportunity to be honest. It's just a fun conversation.


Exactly. What use is a discussion forum if we couldn't use it for discussion?

Cool to see my thread is still getting some publicity after all this (my first thread I think).

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Re: GMK Godzilla, Possibly the Most Powerful?

Postby Alexzilla408 » Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:31 am

The goal is to have fun discussing something we like. It won't effect how I enjoy the movies, but I enjoy TK because of discussions such as this.

There doesn't have to be a crowning achievement for every action or word spoken. I'm enjoying the discussion, as I'm sure several other members are. If you don't care for it, don't participate.
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Re: GMK Godzilla, Possibly the Most Powerful?

Postby eabaker » Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:25 pm

Alexzilla408 wrote:The goal is to have fun discussing something we like. It won't effect how I enjoy the movies, but I enjoy TK because of discussions such as this.

There doesn't have to be a crowning achievement for every action or word spoken. I'm enjoying the discussion, as I'm sure several other members are. If you don't care for it, don't participate.


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Re: GMK Godzilla, Possibly the Most Powerful?

Postby Shinigami » Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:57 pm

Godzilla165 wrote:^ Maybe it just got much hotter. Heisei's breath really has no force at all, its all just heat and explosive power. I know I couldn't make a mushroom cloud big enough to be seen miles away by one firecracker (I would need the whole world's supply to even attempt it), I was just pointing out that the mushroom cloud was only a symbolic thing, meant to show Godzilla's mutated from nuclear testing origin. If his beam had been that strong, it would have destroyed all three monsters with one blast, and level Tokyo with just a few. GMK's beam is what appears to be based mostly on kinetic force, and heat thrown in for good measure. FW has heat, force, a shitload of power, and explosive properties as well. I'm with you also on GMK's mushroom making beam merely being energy stored over years, I don't like that theory as well. His final ray that completely decimated KG was due to him being power up by KG's gravity bolts, we saw what his regular beam did to KG in the ocean, it just knocked him out.


You can make a mushroom cloud with a powerful enough firecracker or all the world's firecrackers? So you're kind of dismissing the fact that Godzilla is essentially a giant nuclear bomb (his origins in GMK are different but he still emits radiation as per the father not wanting his daughter near him after destroying Godzilla)? It's like saying if I had 1.2 megatonnes of TNT I could create a mushroom cloud like Godzilla. You're argument is rather odd in order to dismiss that mushroom cloud that Godzilla created in GMK.

Anyways I don't think GMK Godzilla is the most powerful I think it might be safe to say it's either Final Wars G (I do agree with what you wrote about FW G) or burning Godzilla. I do believe that GMK Godzilla is probably along the lines of being the third most powerful Godzilla, but that's just my opinion.


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