Say something negative about the Milennium Series

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Say something negative about the Milennium Series

Postby LegendZilla » Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:33 pm

Hey guys, it’s your old pal LegendZilla here and since we have threads for saying negatives hints about the Heisei, Showa and Shin movies, why not continue the trend and target the Millennium era for once? Whereas most of you are vindictive over the Heisei films as a whole for whatever issues you may have, The Millennium films just so happen to be the ones I most feel that way with. Here are my issues :

Toho’s unwillingness to create a singular continuity lasting more than two films.

The less-than ideal effects work in Megaguirus.

Forcing Mothra down our throats.

It has been well established that I am in a minority when it comes to an opinion on GMK.

I know I said this before, but I’ve always felt resentful over Godzilla’s treatment in the Kiryu films by making him little more than a clutzy punching bag for his opponent. I know Kiryu is supposed to be the good guy and not Godzilla himself, but the way they handled it made it seem they were just shoving it in our faces. I prefer a Godzilla who doesn’t take poop so easily and I’m sure all of you feel that way deep down inside.

Final Wars. That’s it.

What are your issues with the Millennium series? Ladies and gentlemen, feel free to fill me in.
Last edited by LegendZilla on Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:38 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Say something negative about the Milennium Series

Postby JAGzilla » Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:49 pm

I agree with all but the first point, and I'll add that none of the new monsters (Orga, Megaguirus, and Monster X) were particularly special or memorable. I have nothing against them (well... X is automatically doomed by association with his movie), but they aren't favorites of mine, either.

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Re: Say something negative about the Milennium Series

Postby Maritonic » Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:46 am

Godzilla vs. Megaguirus.
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Re: Say something negative about the Milennium Series

Postby eabaker » Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:58 am

After committing to the bold idea of making disconnected films that would allow different filmmakers to explore the character from a variety of perspectives...


...they let Masaki Tezuka direct half the entries, and even allowed two of those to be back-to-back movies in the same continuity. :evil:
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Re: Say something negative about the Milennium Series

Postby GojiDog » Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:03 am

I know the continuity of the Showa series was, at best, loose, but that was the nature of the time period and was acceptable to have discrepancies between sequels. The Universal Monster films of the 30s and 40s had similar issues where there would be broad strokes connecting the films, but the finer details would be ignored. I could go into a whole thing about how Lugosi's oft mocked performance as the Frankenstein Monster in Frankenstein Meets the Wolfman was actually the correct way to play it based on the previous film, but I'll leave it alone for now.

But with the rise of home video, people could go back and watch these movies over and over again, so all of a sudden, that lack of continuity was no longer acceptable. Stuff like Rocky's kid aging 5 years between Rocky IV and V without a legitimate time jump just wouldn't fly anymore. The Heisei series of Godzilla films adapted quite well to this with its comic book style approach. Each film led into the next one with some elements popping back up 2 or 3 entries down the road. Mecha Ghidorah being used to set up Mechgodzilla two movies later was brilliant. Biollante floating away into space and Mothra going into space being potential causes for Spacegodzilla several movies later, while ridiculous sci-fi nonsense, was a nice connective tissue between the films. Also, we actually get to see the Son of Godzilla grow throughout the series, which pays off fairly well in Godzilla Vs. Destroyah.

Not saying everything the Heisei series did was great (The Yakuza?! Huh?!) but for better or worse, I did like the continuity as it gave off the impression of an evolving story from one entry to another and we got a definitive ending to boot.

It also spared the audience and the film makers from having to explain where Godzilla came from and where he stands in the world. If you saw the previous films, you already know, and if you're a fan, you don't really need much of an origin. Heck even casual viewers get the basic gist of Godzilla.

The Millennium Series approach of having no continuity between the films kind of takes all of this away. No story threads carry over and there is no evolution and that always kind of irked me. It almost made it feel like the films don't matter because we're just getting the almighty "1954 film stays, all else go" eraser button to reset for the next film.

And by restarting with each entry, it forced each movie to start with either a prologue or a lot of explaining for what Godzilla is, where he came from, and where everything stands in the world, and that can be overly repetitive and grating after a while. Oddly enough, I think Godzilla 2000 had my favorite approach to this in that they didn't explain anything! They just dropped us right in the middle and said "Screw it, you know who he is".

Now the benefit of doing things with the constant reboots is that each entry is allowed to be its own thing and stand on its own with its own unique style, and when you look at entries like the fantasy based GMK and the off the wall and crazy Final Wars, the directors were allowed to cut loose and do what they wanted (for better or worse). But if that was the goal, why did Tezuka get to direct 3 of the 6 films? Why not get a different director for each entry? Part of me wishes they had just gone all out crazy and just do Godzilla Elseworld stories. One is post apocalyptic Godzilla, One is Godzilla on Mars, One is Godzilla in the 1800s, One is Godzilla in the war between Heaven and Hell...all kinds of weirdness.

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Re: Say something negative about the Milennium Series

Postby Ivo-goji » Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:25 am

Started 20 consecutive years of reboots.
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Re: Say something negative about the Milennium Series

Postby Mr_Goji_and_Watch » Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:27 am

They remind me too much of the Heisei flicks at times
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Re: Say something negative about the Milennium Series

Postby Zarm » Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:37 am

It was narratively pretty weak. G2000 was good, but Megaguirus and GxM basically shared the same plot, Tokyo SOS barely had a plot, and the plots of GMK and Final Wars were- while possessing a few interesting concepts each- not a lot to write home against.

With the exception of Orga, not a lot of monster variety/good new creations. Well, except for Final Wars... but even then, the variety came at the expense of development.

I will say, though- going against the purview of the thread- I actually found this series to have the most memorable characters of the three series, despite having the fewest movies I really enjoy.
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Re: Say something negative about the Milennium Series

Postby Destorogoji » Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:05 am

The whole concept of making several films in different continuities is pretty cool, the problem is that Toho was pushing really hard the releases, making the resulting products look like they were made on a rush (Take GMK as an example, compare that movie with, idk, Gamera 2 or 3 from the same director. They look on par and even better at some moments; have into account that the Gamera films were made two-five years before GMK with a smaller budget).
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Re: Say something negative about the Milennium Series

Postby Tyrant_Lizard_King » Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:23 pm

Most of them suck. Also for being unconnected stories meant to take the character into whatever directions the filmmakers desired GMK and Final Wars are the only ones with any real feel and identity of their own. Every other film more or less looks and feels the same.
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Re: Say something negative about the Milennium Series

Postby PitchBlackProgress » Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:43 am

I thought Godzilla 2000 was highly enjoyable :shrug:
Honestly, I hate all the Millennium movies except this one :lol:
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Re: Say something negative about the Milennium Series

Postby KaijuCanuck » Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:07 pm

Megaguirus doesn’t do much for me. Same with GxMG, other than the badass opening sequence. I seem to be the only person around who enjoys Tokyo SOS, though.

Another point - there’s something just really lame about the “only include the original film” continuity thing, at least when you do it over and over. Although I suppose only GMK and the Kiryu saga are connected to the original film entirely - GxM is explicitly tied to an alternate version of the 1954 events, GFW only makes a small reference and implies that this is the only Godzilla (so therefore the 1954 film cannot have happened exactly as it did), and G2K is famously vague about everything. But, in common parlance we talk about the millenium series as all being sequels to the 1954 film, and in the spirit of that, I think it’s lame. So what I think is lame is not actually the reality... wait, what was this topic again? :lol:
Last edited by KaijuCanuck on Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Say something negative about the Milennium Series

Postby PitchBlackProgress » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:19 am

Jesus skreeonking Christ, adults dubbing children characters.
I honestly cringe anytime I subject myself to GXM, GXMG, or G:TSoS, do not dub over children actors with people over the age of 18, please.
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Re: Say something negative about the Milennium Series

Postby LegendZilla » Wed May 15, 2019 3:39 pm

GojiDog wrote: Now the benefit of doing things with the constant reboots is that each entry is allowed to be its own thing and stand on its own with its own unique style, and when you look at entries like the fantasy based GMK and the off the wall and crazy Final Wars, the directors were allowed to cut loose and do what they wanted (for better or worse). But if that was the goal, why did Tezuka get to direct 3 of the 6 films? Why not get a different director for each entry? Part of me wishes they had just gone all out crazy and just do Godzilla Elseworld stories. One is post apocalyptic Godzilla, One is Godzilla on Mars, One is Godzilla in the 1800s, One is Godzilla in the war between Heaven and Hell...all kinds of weirdness.


Doing that once or twice every now and then is tolerable, but when it happens non-stop practically every time a new movie is made over course of a nearly 20 years, it just gets redundant.
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Re: Say something negative about the Milennium Series

Postby Rhedosaurus » Thu May 16, 2019 3:54 am

I think my biggest problem is how inconsistent it is.

Godzilla 2000: Mostly forgettable.

Godzilla vs. Megaguirus: Great.

GMK: Excellect.

Godzilla against Mechagodzilla: Solid, but quite flawed.

SOS: Disappointing

Final Wars: Barely average with some fun moments.


The Heisei and Showa series were FAR superior and had more movies.
Last edited by Rhedosaurus on Thu May 16, 2019 3:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Say something negative about the Milennium Series

Postby The Baranosdragon » Thu May 16, 2019 7:02 am

I am not terribly fond of Godzilla's design in Godzilla 2000, to be quite honest. It's not horrible, but the spikes are a touch excessive, and orange atomic breath just seems... off. I do like the film itself, however.

The original monsters in this era weren't the best.
    -Orga was quite neat, if a bit unoriginal.
    -Megaguirus has a decent design as well, but has the misfortune of starring in a forgettable film.
    -Kiryu just doesn't click with me for some reason. It is not as charming as the Showa version, nor as cold/eerie as the Heisei version.
    -Monster X was quite cool overall, if a bit uninteresting.
    -Kaiser Ghidorah is a great idea done badly. I do have a soft spot for this monster, but I cannot deny how shoddy it looks.

This series as a whole is decent, but just isn't that memorable to me. GMK is the exception to this rule (as well as Final Wars... if for the wrong reasons), but the rest of the films just seem to fade into the background of my mind. When all is said and done, boring is one of the worst things a film can be, which is why I tend to return to this series the least.
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Re: Say something negative about the Milennium Series

Postby szmigiel » Thu May 16, 2019 7:15 am

Oh boy where to even start. I don't think Toho's idea of a few films that were stand alone entires was necessarily a bad idea, but the execution by Toho was horrendous.

They start with Godzilla 2000 by hiring the same director from the 2nd half of the Heisei series and retread the plot of Godzilla Vs Biollante, but add in aliens. There are some good ideas here, but it feels like Toho just wanted to recreate the box office and merchandising success of the Heisei films asap.

Then they turn things over to former assistant director to make his directorial debut and make a film that would fit in the Champion Festival of the 70's. The film has grown on me overtime, but it is still pretty silly and bizarre, from the unnecessary alternate history aspect, to the outlandish and ridiculous blackhole weapon.

Finally Toho gets on the right track and hires Kaneko, a director that has made a name for himself in Sci-fi and Kaiju films. But they sabotage his concept by forcing him to shoehorn in Mothra and King Ghidorah, because of marketing. Also not giving him enough time to make the film properly. Then there is releasing the film with Hamtaro double bill. GXM would have been okay with Hamtaro double bill, GMK was trying to be more than just a kid friendly family film.

I think this was the turning point. If Kaneko was able to make his film from the original concept and given more time to get the suits and special effects done correctly, Toho would have had a much greater success, even if it meant not having a G film every year. This would have also meant they would have had two years to prepare the 50th film for 2004.

Even with all that Toho did to undermine GMK, it is still successful enough to green-light more films till the 50th anniversary that was coming up fast. So they turned around and gave the next film back to the same director that made an underperforming film to resurrect the next franchise top opponent for Godzilla in popularity, Mechagodzilla. Afterwards they needed a placeholder film before pumping out the 50th anniversary film, so they simply just green-lit a sloppy sequel. Instead of using that budget and time to produce a more ambitious 50th anniversary film.

Toho then hires a young up and coming director to do a 50th anniversary film, although they increased the budget to allow for some international shooting, the time to finish the film is still very tight. I enjoyed what ended up, but I would say with more time we could have gotten a better film, but then it wouldn't have been in time for the 50th anniversary.

Then over a decade later Toho finally succeeds in doing what they set out to do with the Millennium series with Shin Godzilla. They hire a talented director and gave him the freedom to reinvent Godzilla. And Toho I think finally got the success they were looking for.

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Re: Say something negative about the Milennium Series

Postby Terasawa » Thu May 16, 2019 8:00 am

Most of the films are tired and uninspired entries that don't take enough advantage of the break from continuity to better explore the Godzilla character or tell different kinds of stories using Godzilla and other kaiju. Only two films, GMK and GFW, fully took advantage of this concept. G2K (which I enjoy anyway) and the Tezuka films (which I don't) -with minor changes- could have been made as part of the VS series.
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Re: Say something negative about the Milennium Series

Postby Gailah 1966 » Thu May 16, 2019 10:45 pm

The series was too short :D
... oh and Final Wars.
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Re: Say something negative about the Milennium Series

Postby orga_000 » Fri May 17, 2019 2:41 am

Maritonic wrote:Godzilla vs. Megaguirus.

I kinda liked this movie, I felt like it didn't fit the Millennium Series.
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