Remember, this is Toho Kingdom

For the discussion of Toho produced and distributed films or shows released from 1999 to 2015.
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LSD Jellyfish
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Re: Remember, this is Toho Kingdom

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Thu May 09, 2019 9:50 pm

Nathus214 wrote:Isn't Seven Samurai widely acclaimed to be one of the best films ever?

Controversial opinion incoming; While Seven Samurai is a great movie, I think it`s massively overrated and mainly touted to be one of the best films by people who want to pretend that they know foreign Japanese films/want to come across as cultured. It`s the most obvious go-to. Kurosawa IMO has some way better films. And actually, its not TK users faults that Kurosawa films are relatively easy to find, legally or otherwise, meanwhile 80% of the more Toho Studio driven stuff is hard to find, not even taking into account subtitles.

Mr_Goji_and_Watch wrote:Barely anybody talks about Toho's films that aren't Godzilla. Some guy that was interviewed by TK staff said something about self-proclaimed Japanese film fans, saying they mostly watch Godzilla and anime, have seen one Kurosawa film, have heard of Ozu, and have no idea who Ichikawa, Naruse or Toyoda are. Fits the majority of this forum lol

I think that while this may appear to be the case at first, I know myself and others have branched out to other films. When it was on Hulu, I saw Iron Finger, and while it wasn`t my favorite film ever I enjoyed it and its interesting seeing what led to Fukuda directing some Godzilla films.
https://www.tohokingdom.com/movies/iron_finger.htm

The main site, has been, and always will be a great resource to find new films.
Lets not forget House. I`ll try to look into the Dracula Films and some of the more horror oriented films soon, like The H-Man.

A lot of directors you mentioned though didn`t work with Toho. If I really wanted to get obscure I could list a lot of stuff on here that`s hard to find online.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Demon_(1978_film)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goke,_Bod ... _from_Hell
One of my favorites
_JNavs_ wrote:The MV is like cheap imitation crabmeat, it tastes good, but it isn't real, while Shin is kino peak Japanese performance.

Rodan95 wrote:The Shobijin are sat on by a fatass explorer and killed. Mothra is pissed and destroys Japan.

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Re: Remember, this is Toho Kingdom

Postby eabaker » Thu May 09, 2019 9:58 pm

LSD Jellyfish wrote:
Nathus214 wrote:Isn't Seven Samurai widely acclaimed to be one of the best films ever?

Controversial opinion incoming; While Seven Samurai is a great movie, I think it`s massively overrated and mainly touted to be one of the best films by people who want to pretend that they know foreign Japanese films/want to come across as cultured. It`s the most obvious go-to. Kurosawa IMO has some way better films.


Personally, I don't think of "best" and "greatest" as strictly synonymous. Cultural impact and influence on other artists are both elements of a work's greatness - that is to say, of how large it looms in the history of the medium.

Taking those factors into account, I'd say Kurosawa's "greatest" films can probably be narrowed down to something like Rashomon, Ikiru, Seven Samurai, Yojimbo and Ran.

Edit: Looking back, I realize the you actually never questioned it's placement among the "greatest," nor was that even the word Nathus214 used. This is what I get for coming online a couple of drinks into my night. Sorry. Feel free to ignore this entire post.
Last edited by eabaker on Thu May 09, 2019 10:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Remember, this is Toho Kingdom

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Fri May 10, 2019 7:09 am

^^^no problem, your posts are always insightful regardless of their sobriety; and I don’t think you’re the first to be on TK while drinking. :D

Anyways, my main post was a two pronged attack, mainly aimed at the notion that a lot of TK members don’t know Toho, or Japanese films, outside anime or Godzilla. While I’m sure that notion holds some truth, I personally found it offensive, and I think the forum goers deserve SOME credit.

My point about Seven Samurai is that while although it’s an amazing film, it’s also one of the most easily accessible, and when someone says it’s their favorite Japanese film or film at large I get suspicious. It’s like the “I like KINO but I’m in the KINO shallowpool, but I still want to pretend I’m in the JAPANESE KINO DEEP END.”.


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Last edited by LSD Jellyfish on Fri May 10, 2019 7:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
_JNavs_ wrote:The MV is like cheap imitation crabmeat, it tastes good, but it isn't real, while Shin is kino peak Japanese performance.

Rodan95 wrote:The Shobijin are sat on by a fatass explorer and killed. Mothra is pissed and destroys Japan.

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Re: Remember, this is Toho Kingdom

Postby eabaker » Fri May 10, 2019 7:38 am

LSD Jellyfish wrote:Anyways, my main post was a two pronged attack, mainly aimed at the notion that a lot of TK members don’t know Toho, or Japanese films, outside anime or Godzilla. While I’m sure that notion holds some truth, I personally found it offensive, and I think the forum goers deserve SOME credit.


I kind of sit right in this middle on this point, I guess. I would say that a lot - though not nearly all - of TK users do know Toho pretty much as "the Godzilla company." There are also a large number who know them for a little more, and a decent batch who know them for a lot more.

But I don't think there's anything wrong some people just thinking of them as "the Godzilla company," and with that being the bulk of what we talk about on this forum, because, I mean, Godzilla is massively, enduringly popular for a reason. And a specific movie studio would seem like kind of a weird thing to be a focus for conversation, anyway. The Godzilla series invites extended, in-depth, geeky conversation on many different levels - some of cinematic depth, some of pure fanboy goofiness (I just can't imagine an equivalent of the Fantasy Matches forum focused on Seijun Suzuki gangsters going up against Takeshi Kitano gangsters).

Plus, Godzilla is a great entry point for Japanese cinema, and I'm sure there are people who come to this site/these forums to talk Godzilla, and end up gradually expanding their horizons. Personally, my interest in Godzilla dates back to childhood, while my larger awareness of Japanese film began with a drama teacher recommending Rashomon to me when I was 16 (I immediately fell hard for Kurosawa, but didn't see any Ozu, Inagaki, Masaki Kobayashi, etc until college). But if there'd been a Toho Kingdom when I was 14, maybe that awakening would have come a little earlier.

Regardless, I agree with you that any assertion that Godzilla is all we talk about on here is false. And if that really worries someone, I'd rather see them start threads in which they talk in-depth about specific movies than that they spend their time griping about the rest of us lacking their sophistication.

My point about Seven Samurai is that while although it’s an amazing film, it’s also one of the most easily accessible, and when someone says it’s their favorite Japanese film or film at large I get suspicious. It’s like the “I like KINO but I’m in the KINO shallowpool, but I still want to pretend I’m in the JAPANESE KINO DEEP END.”


I see where you're coming from, but, at the same time, I don't necessarily think having one of the most easily accessible examples indicates a lack of appreciation for the more esoteric or obtuse. I think there's something to be said for accessibility.

Seven Samurai is not my favorite film (honestly, I just don't have such a thing), nor is it my favorite Japanese film (again, couldn't narrow it down and wouldn't have any reason to), but I think it is a stunning work that manages to be accessible and entertaining to a mass audience while still being rich with characterization, theme and style. And, as a fan of formalist cinema, Kurosawa stands out to me as an especially masterful filmmaker overall for the ways in which story and style feel inextricable from one another in his work.

Does that make him necessarily the best? Of course not. There's really no such thing as "the best" filmmaker, in the history of the world or in any one nation or in any one era. But he's pretty great.

Do we even have a Seven Samurai thread on TK? I can't specifically remember ever posting in one, but it feels like that might be a thing.
Last edited by eabaker on Fri May 10, 2019 7:38 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Remember, this is Toho Kingdom

Postby Terasawa » Fri May 10, 2019 8:08 am

Mr_Goji_and_Watch wrote:Barely anybody talks about Toho's films that aren't Godzilla.


OK, brace yourself for:

seven samurai has good charctor development and story arcs but there arent enough beam locks 4.27/10
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Re: Remember, this is Toho Kingdom

Postby MechaGoji Bro7503 » Fri May 10, 2019 1:27 pm

About Toho being seen as "The Godzilla Company", I mean it would make sense as the original Godzilla essentially saved Toho from going under.
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Re: Remember, this is Toho Kingdom

Postby Mr_Goji_and_Watch » Fri May 10, 2019 1:41 pm

Terasawa wrote:OK, brace yourself for:

seven samurai has good charctor development and story arcs but there arent enough beam locks 4.27/10


too many cameras not enough kaiju
MechaGoji Bro7503 wrote:About Toho being seen as "The Godzilla Company", I mean it would make sense as the original Godzilla essentially saved Toho from going under.


Toho (and other studios) were at their peak in the 50's and early 60's, I don't think there was any real danger in 1954 for Toho. They had Seven Samurai releasing that year as well, which I believe cost just as much if not more than Godzilla, alongside another blockbuster whose name escapes me at the moment. There's an article on the main site debunking this kind of myth.
Last edited by Mr_Goji_and_Watch on Fri May 10, 2019 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Moogabunga wrote:Ive said it before and I'll gladly say it again, this is going to be the best Godzilla film ever and more importantly, its going to be the film that truly makes Godzilla mainstream (and cool)

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Re: Remember, this is Toho Kingdom

Postby MechaGoji Bro7503 » Fri May 10, 2019 2:00 pm

Mr_Goji_and_Watch wrote:
MechaGoji Bro7503 wrote:About Toho being seen as "The Godzilla Company", I mean it would make sense as the original Godzilla essentially saved Toho from going under.


Toho (and other studios) were at their peak in the 50's and early 60's, I don't think there was any real danger in 1954 for Toho. They had Seven Samurai releasing that year as well, which I believe cost just as much if not more than Godzilla, alongside another blockbuster whose name escapes me at the moment. There's an article on the main site debunking this kind of myth.

Mmm, I misremembered. I think the other blockbuster you're thinking of was Samurai 1: Masushi Miyamoto. I mistook the myth of Toho going under, for Honda's worries of it potentially failing and ending his career, if that makes sense. Both Toho and Honda were worried about public reaction.

Source: Honda's biography.
"Bang on, mate.", - Murdoc Niccals 2018.

Dv-218 wrote:This is so sad, Alexa play "Bio-Wars".

Dr. Professor wrote:If I had a dollar for every "SAVE MOTHRA" joke, I'd be able to buy Legendary Pictures, renew the license for Godzilla, acquire the rights to the rest of the Toho monsters, and make a Godzilla film that totally bombs without even putting a dent in my bank account.

"Wake the fruck up Godzilla, we got a city to burn." - Goro Maki, 2016.

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Re: Remember, this is Toho Kingdom

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Fri May 10, 2019 3:18 pm

It’s not like Toho denies being the Godzilla company anyways. There’s a reason why they invested a ton of money in Shin, in hopes that it would spearhead a new era for the company. Additionally, if you go to Toho cinemas in japan, usually right before the movie starts there’s sortve a little animation of a small Godzilla breathing fire into some popcorn, and usually a brief reel of Toho’s History including some Godzilla footage.
_JNavs_ wrote:The MV is like cheap imitation crabmeat, it tastes good, but it isn't real, while Shin is kino peak Japanese performance.

Rodan95 wrote:The Shobijin are sat on by a fatass explorer and killed. Mothra is pissed and destroys Japan.


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