Final Wars: Why The Hate?

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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby szmigiel » Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:06 pm

Ultraman02 wrote:
UltramanGoji wrote:
Ultraman02 wrote:Final Wars feels like an Ultraman movie...
I think that's why I like it.


I think that’s pretty unflattering for Ultraman.


Why?

Mostly because slinging insults is easier than actually trying to put together well though out arguments.

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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby Orichalcum » Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:38 pm

Well that was uncalled for…
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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby UltramanGoji » Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:10 pm

Ultraman02 wrote:
UltramanGoji wrote:
Ultraman02 wrote:Final Wars feels like an Ultraman movie...
I think that's why I like it.


I think that’s pretty unflattering for Ultraman.


Why?


Half-joking. Most Ultraman films are rather simple in plot but still at least have a clear focus while GFW just feels like a wild mess of...things happening with no rhyme or reason.

szmigiel wrote:Mostly because slinging insults is easier than actually trying to put together well though out arguments.


Cranky because you got mad I implied GFW isn't a good movie aren't you
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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby szmigiel » Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:13 pm

UltramanGoji wrote:Cranky because you got mad I implied GFW isn't a good movie aren't you

No just commenting on the quality of your arguments

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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby Orichalcum » Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:23 pm

It wasn’t an argument though, he just made a statement
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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby szmigiel » Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:59 pm

Orichalcum wrote:It wasn’t an argument though, he just made a statement

Yes thats the point, it wasn't an argument it was a quick put down.

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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby G2000 » Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:37 pm

Everyone talks about the Godzilla vs Zilla scene but no one ever talks about the completely out-of-nowhere Sum 41 song that makes the whole thing seem like an AMV
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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby goji89 » Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:14 pm

G2000 wrote:Everyone talks about the Godzilla vs Zilla scene but no one ever talks about the completely out-of-nowhere Sum 41 song that makes the whole thing seem like an AMV


Because the film is such a jumbled mess it feels like the entire movie is an AMV and it fits without so much as loosing momentum.
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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby Orichalcum » Mon Sep 02, 2019 6:35 am

They should have played a Breaking Benjamin or Linkin Park song during that fight :P
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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby goji89 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:44 am

Nah........ Evanescence.

;)
Last edited by goji89 on Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Mr_Goji_and_Watch wrote: Tsuburaya's sloppy puppets and bad Kong suits.

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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:35 pm

goji89 wrote:Nah........ Evanescence.

;)

Unrelated, but does anyone remember that edgy video of Evanescence playing over Gamera 3? Bring me to life mashed up with Revenge of Iris?
_JNavs_ wrote:The MV is like cheap imitation crabmeat, it tastes good, but it isn't real, while Shin is kino peak Japanese performance.

Rodan95 wrote:The Shobijin are sat on by a fatass explorer and killed. Mothra is pissed and destroys Japan.

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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby Orichalcum » Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:38 pm

There's tons of those for every Heisei and millennium movie lol

You could always expect Evanescence, Three Days Grace, Disturbed, Linkin Park, and Breaking Benjamin every. time.
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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby _JNavs_ » Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:40 pm

Orichalcum wrote:There's tons of those for every Heisei and millennium movie lol

This, when I was growing up Godzilla was a literal rockstar.
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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby goji89 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:08 pm

LSD Jellyfish wrote:
goji89 wrote:Nah........ Evanescence.

;)

Unrelated, but does anyone remember that edgy video of Evanescence playing over Gamera 3? Bring me to life mashed up with Revenge of Iris?


Doesn't Everybody? Oh well except this fledglings.....young Kino less fans.
Orichalcum wrote:There's tons of those for every Heisei and millennium movie lol

You could always expect Evanescence, Three Days Grace, Disturbed, Linkin Park, and Breaking Benjamin every. time.


They never dissapointed me. Unlike songs of today that suck.
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Mr_Goji_and_Watch wrote: Tsuburaya's sloppy puppets and bad Kong suits.

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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:33 pm

goji89 wrote:
LSD Jellyfish wrote:
goji89 wrote:Nah........ Evanescence.

;)

Unrelated, but does anyone remember that edgy video of Evanescence playing over Gamera 3? Bring me to life mashed up with Revenge of Iris?


Doesn't Everybody? Oh well except this fledglings.....young Kino less fans.
Orichalcum wrote:There's tons of those for every Heisei and millennium movie lol

You could always expect Evanescence, Three Days Grace, Disturbed, Linkin Park, and Breaking Benjamin every. time.


They never dissapointed me. Unlike songs of today that suck.

Only true fans will remember the Safety Dance Gamera video.
_JNavs_ wrote:The MV is like cheap imitation crabmeat, it tastes good, but it isn't real, while Shin is kino peak Japanese performance.

Rodan95 wrote:The Shobijin are sat on by a fatass explorer and killed. Mothra is pissed and destroys Japan.

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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby AlexSledge » Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:02 am

I am not sure how to start. I guess saying I love all Godzilla films is the easiest. I started watching Godzilla films in the early 1970's when I was a kid, can't say I've disliked one I've ever seen. Pretty sure it was Godzilla vs Megalon I saw first. I only have one or two that haven't blessed these eyes yet, but they're in the collection for when I get time.

Next, I categorize G films into a few groups. The ones for kids, the ones for "art appreciation", and the ones for adults. Kids may like the adult monsters & battles, adults may like some of the humor in the kid-flavored ones, and so on. I've been re-watching them with my 6yr old, and for certain he loves the heck out of the movies too.

Why is Final Wars one of the best kid G movies made? Lots of G fights, lots of bad matrix style karate types, lots of bad acting, complete camp fest - fan-friggin-tastic. Turn off your brain and enjoy the show. Plot? It's a Godzilla movie. Realism? It's a Godzilla movie. Plagarism is the highest form of flattery - so stealing from Star Wars, the Matrix, and so on is 150% OK. It is my 6yr old's favorite Godzilla film along with Godzilla, Mothra & King Ghidorah - Giant Monsters All Out Attack. So - there you go, top kid Godzilla movies.

Shin Godzilla is probably my favorite adult Godzilla film. I appreciate '54 for it's impact, and goal of capturing the post war feelings, but it's not top of my list. Disappointed we won't see a follow up.

The Legendary films.... are OK. Typical 'save the cat' hollywood plot, lots of special effects, and too much crap/storyline about humans that could have been better used for more monster action. G:KoM... Boo hoo the environment. Jeesh, enough already - we're going extinct eventually, get over it :)

I have assumed Godzilla '98 is the most disliked - where Final Wars succeeds, Godzilla '98 fails - not even Matthew Broderick could save it. Again, my assumption - lots of forum to read yet. Sure they took the opportunity to rip off Jurrasic Park, Aliens, etc.. but somehow failed to translate that meaningfully into entertainment instead of boredom. OOooOoOh, it's a bigger T-Rex with a very manly jaw line - bleah. Corrected in Final Wars. :) Even my kid doesn't care for it, or the cartoon series where the gang has a pet Godzilla.

I am certain my earlier experiences with Godzilla vs Megalon, Smog Monster, and Sea Monster on Sundays as a kid shaped my views on the Godzilla films, as I expect it did for everyone else.

P.S. While I love Godzilla, Gamera edges him out as my favorite. :)
P.P.S. I can't say I ever considered looking at the Godzilla films critically until now. I'll see if any of my opinions change after the rewatches.
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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Tue Sep 03, 2019 3:53 pm

AlexSledge wrote:I am not sure how to start. I guess saying I love all Godzilla films is the easiest. I started watching Godzilla films in the early 1970's when I was a kid, can't say I've disliked one I've ever seen. Pretty sure it was Godzilla vs Megalon I saw first. I only have one or two that haven't blessed these eyes yet, but they're in the collection for when I get time.

Next, I categorize G films into a few groups. The ones for kids, the ones for "art appreciation", and the ones for adults. Kids may like the adult monsters & battles, adults may like some of the humor in the kid-flavored ones, and so on. I've been re-watching them with my 6yr old, and for certain he loves the heck out of the movies too.

Why is Final Wars one of the best kid G movies made? Lots of G fights, lots of bad matrix style karate types, lots of bad acting, complete camp fest - fan-friggin-tastic. Turn off your brain and enjoy the show. Plot? It's a Godzilla movie. Realism? It's a Godzilla movie. Plagarism is the highest form of flattery - so stealing from Star Wars, the Matrix, and so on is 150% OK. It is my 6yr old's favorite Godzilla film along with Godzilla, Mothra & King Ghidorah - Giant Monsters All Out Attack. So - there you go, top kid Godzilla movies.

Shin Godzilla is probably my favorite adult Godzilla film. I appreciate '54 for it's impact, and goal of capturing the post war feelings, but it's not top of my list. Disappointed we won't see a follow up.

The Legendary films.... are OK. Typical 'save the cat' hollywood plot, lots of special effects, and too much crap/storyline about humans that could have been better used for more monster action. G:KoM... Boo hoo the environment. Jeesh, enough already - we're going extinct eventually, get over it :)

I have assumed Godzilla '98 is the most disliked - where Final Wars succeeds, Godzilla '98 fails - not even Matthew Broderick could save it. Again, my assumption - lots of forum to read yet. Sure they took the opportunity to rip off Jurrasic Park, Aliens, etc.. but somehow failed to translate that meaningfully into entertainment instead of boredom. OOooOoOh, it's a bigger T-Rex with a very manly jaw line - bleah. Corrected in Final Wars. :) Even my kid doesn't care for it, or the cartoon series where the gang has a pet Godzilla.

I am certain my earlier experiences with Godzilla vs Megalon, Smog Monster, and Sea Monster on Sundays as a kid shaped my views on the Godzilla films, as I expect it did for everyone else.

P.S. While I love Godzilla, Gamera edges him out as my favorite. :)
P.P.S. I can't say I ever considered looking at the Godzilla films critically until now. I'll see if any of my opinions change after the rewatches.


The argument will be,"Kids movies shouldn't inherently be dumb or treat children like idiots", but to an extent I agree.

That being said, there were many films, like Son of Godzilla, and Godzilla vs. Gigan that I enjoyed when I was very small as well anyways.
_JNavs_ wrote:The MV is like cheap imitation crabmeat, it tastes good, but it isn't real, while Shin is kino peak Japanese performance.

Rodan95 wrote:The Shobijin are sat on by a fatass explorer and killed. Mothra is pissed and destroys Japan.

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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby AlexSledge » Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:39 am

LSD Jellyfish wrote:The argument will be,"Kids movies shouldn't inherently be dumb or treat children like idiots", but to an extent I agree.


That is a fair argument, and while some don't treat kids that way, it's still the reality that many/most do (but thankfully that is changing). At a younger age they/we don't recognize dumb simply from lack of experience. It's the reason sometimes when you revisit a beloved thing from your youth it just doesn't age well - because you're more aware of the ways in which it isn't up to your more experienced quality standards.

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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby HedorahIsBestGirl » Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:23 pm

Ah, Final Wars. I saw the screening at G-Fest when I was young and it was my favorite Godzilla movie at the time. Don't feel that way anymore, but don't hate it either. There are a few things about it that I hate, though:
#1) Minilla: I hate Minilla, and half the reason I hate him is his role in this movie. He provides stupid, unneeded comic relief, and doesn't intersect with the main plot until the climax, which he ruins with his stupid T-pose.
#2) King Caesar: Never been a fan, and this movie made me really dislike him. He looks like a clown and he acts like one, too. Why couldn't Titanosaurus have been used in his place?
#3) Hedorah: She shows up for twenty seconds and goes out like a skreeonk. Did Ryuhei Kitamure ever watch Godzilla vs. Hedorah? I'm guessing not, or he'd know that Hedorah isn't some wimpass monster that should be lumped in with Ebirah as Godzilla fodder.
#4) Hollywood Wannabe: How many damn scenes in this movie blatantly ripoff The Matrix and Independence Day? Too many. Paying homae is one thing, flat out stealing scenes is lazy and cringey.
#5) Non-Japanese Characters: I actually enjoy Don Frye's Captain Gordon, but all of the other white and black characters in this movie are cringeworthy. The cop and gangster scene in New York, and the scene of the fat kid throwing toys in the fire are two of the worst scenes ever to disgrace a Godzilla movie.
Beyond this, I thoroughly enjoy the corny, zany messterpiece that is Godzilla: Final Wars. Had these five things been changed or omitted, it would probably still be one of my favorite Godzilla movies.

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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby daveblackeye15 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:58 am

HedorahIsBestGirl wrote:Ah, Final Wars. I saw the screening at G-Fest when I was young and it was my favorite Godzilla movie at the time. Don't feel that way anymore, but don't hate it either. There are a few things about it that I hate, though:
#1) Minilla: I hate Minilla, and half the reason I hate him is his role in this movie. He provides stupid, unneeded comic relief, and doesn't intersect with the main plot until the climax, which he ruins with his stupid T-pose.
#2) King Caesar: Never been a fan, and this movie made me really dislike him. He looks like a clown and he acts like one, too. Why couldn't Titanosaurus have been used in his place?
#3) Hedorah: She shows up for twenty seconds and goes out like a skreeonk. Did Ryuhei Kitamure ever watch Godzilla vs. Hedorah? I'm guessing not, or he'd know that Hedorah isn't some wimpass monster that should be lumped in with Ebirah as Godzilla fodder.
#4) Hollywood Wannabe: How many damn scenes in this movie blatantly ripoff The Matrix and Independence Day? Too many. Paying homae is one thing, flat out stealing scenes is lazy and cringey.
#5) Non-Japanese Characters: I actually enjoy Don Frye's Captain Gordon, but all of the other white and black characters in this movie are cringeworthy. The cop and gangster scene in New York, and the scene of the fat kid throwing toys in the fire are two of the worst scenes ever to disgrace a Godzilla movie.
Beyond this, I thoroughly enjoy the corny, zany messterpiece that is Godzilla: Final Wars. Had these five things been changed or omitted, it would probably still be one of my favorite Godzilla movies.


Kinda agree with some of these. I was happy to see Ceasar, not so much for Minilla, Godzilla Jr. all the way, annoyed Hedorah was chumped. Yeah not a fan of the other non-Japanese aside from the great Captain Gordon.
I wanna LOVE corny zany Final Wars and I could if not for the damn final battle. Does the...over focus on the lead having like three battles with the main bad guy and we vaguely glance at Godzilla vs. Monster X for a few seconds include into #4? Because I do love so many scenes from the movie but it falls apart for the finale sadly.
But you're clearly a lot more forgiving for the film while I am not.


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