Final Wars: Why The Hate?

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Godzillian
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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby Godzillian » Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:49 am

It's ok, final wars as was a disaster and he had to limp back to the Japanese film industry and ear his words
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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby Kenpachiro Hirata » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:50 am

I used to hate GFW for bein' stupid and worthless. That was before I was untroduced to US fanbase...
After that, I just didn't care much. Western fans got what they deserved, and hated it...
It's actually pretty damn funny. 8-)


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I am offended by this generic pseudo-nihilism. :lol:
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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:15 am

Thanks for the interview, very fascinating.

I do think the guys and girlfriends remark is really dumb. However, I actually don’t think a lot of the anti GFW people disagree with a lot of what he’s saying. There’s a general trend of people not liking Heisei and Millenium, whom just like Kitamura like the original, and the showa series. I don’t think him saying it’s silly is necessarily an insult, and he says he wanted to have fun with it. GFW is definitely fun in a lot of ways.

But I do agree with the “I can do better” and some of the ragging on Millenium to appear alongside kids films to be dumb as well. A clear cut example of this is actually Shin g. Shin G actually had s crossover with that children’s anime, and a lot of the merch for Shin G is super cute. Shin G also had some ridiculous brand crossovers with hot dogs and malls. That’s not a problem of Godzilla, that’s a problem of Japan corporate culture and not even a problem.

That dumb thing about wanting simply to have more monsters is really dumb, as that’s why the film feels clogged. Eight monsters: Godzilla, MX/KG, Gigan, Anguirus, Rodan, Mothra, and two others would’ve been more than enough.

Still though, I don’t think this justifies the films hate, and I agree with one of the previous posts of not getting why so many people hate it so personally in the West.
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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby Relair » Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:51 pm

I've always hated final wars because it just takes a dump on all of Godzilla's foes. Without his rogue's gallery there'd be no Godzilla, and every time I watch it I just get more and more annoyed and angry how he just 'lolz 1-hits' every creature. It's stupid. I loved seeing the updated suits and cgi for old monsters, it was cool seeing Zilla become Toho canon, Mothra looks amazing, and Don Frye is such a badass but other than that I disliked pretty much everything else about the whole affair.

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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby GojiDog » Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:41 pm

The problem with Final Wars is that it tried to do too much.

They wanted to have the largest monster cast ever assembled for a Godzilla film.

They wanted to be the first Godzilla film to incorporate large martial arts fight sequences

They wanted to reference various elements of Godzilla's history with alien invaders, various monster co-stars spanning his whole history, references to the American film and various other things.

They wanted to reference popular trends and films like Star Wars and more obviously, The Matrix.

In trying to do all of that, the film felt too crowded and not everything worked as well as it could have.

Destroy All Monsters worked because they built up to the big monster sequences, resulting in two of my favorite monster scenes that Toho ever produced (The Four Monster attack on Tokyo, and the Battle of Mt Fuji). This movie tried to have 14 fight sequences, human and monster, spread out over the course of the film and by the end of it, I just had sensory overlord.

Story elements weren't explained or fleshed out as well as they could have been: Things like the M-Base (so why doesn't Godzilla have M-Base, but all the other monsters do? Mothra I get because she predates Gigan, but...ah forget it) and what separates a Keizer from other M-Base carriers, and especially the Minilla storyline all felt underdeveloped.

I don't want to sound like I'm trashing it because the movie was fun for what it was. It just felt like they tried to hard to go out with a bang for Godzilla's 50th anniversary, and they crammed too much stuff in there.

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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby kamilleblu » Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:03 pm

Godzilla Final Wars looks cheap and all the of the references to better films makes it come across as a parody (think Epic Movie or Scary Movie) instead of a proper film in its own right. As GojiDog said above, Ryuhei Kitamura went too far in a few places. I know his career was on the rise at the time. But was he really the right choice for this kind of material? Was there not a more reliable director in the early 2000s?

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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby Gojira311999 » Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:12 pm

The film is barely strung together, it's boring, it's tone is not what you would see for a Gojira film, Gojira's design is not good, Kaiser Ghidorah's design is cool in concept, but poorly executed, etc.
The only good thing that came out of this film was Millennium Gigan's design. This film is fun to watch, but was not the way to conclude the Gojira franchise. I don't hate this film, in fact, I like it to an extent, but it just isn't my cup of tea.

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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby SonofAnguirus » Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:41 pm

I consider Final Wars to be a potential masterpiece that is irrevocably marred by the inclusion of Angurius as a bulky boi.

#NotMyAnguirus

Seriously though, I think its biggest failing is in trying to cram too much into one movie. I think most fans of this film (myself included) would have liked to see Godzilla actually fight his foes, not cook up a five-second smackdown and move on to the next.

For those who love it, it's because of its campy, over-the-top characters who can't help but be memorable. It's because of its overblown, quasi-parodic action sequences that are genuinely fun to watch. And ultimately, it's because it's a celebration of Godzilla's Rogues Gallery the likes of which hadn't been seen since Destroy All Monsters. As someone who likes every Godzilla film to some degree, I like Final Wars a whole lot - I just wish it were better so I could like it even more.
Last edited by SonofAnguirus on Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby Titanoterror98 » Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:56 pm

I just watched this movie again for the first time in YEARS for Godzilla Day, and I can see a few reasons why people don't like it. Namely:
    The plot points and themes are introduced and unceremoniously dropped throughout the movie
    The script lifted tons of ideas from then-blockbusters like the Matrix and X-Men
    A vast majority of the movie is spent on Godzilla fighting monsters with little to no fanfare
    Keith Emerson's experimental rock soundtrack probably sounded out of place in a Godzilla movie
    The first act feels rushed
    A lot of kaiju in here either felt out of place, poorly designed, or underused
But aside from that, I still love this movie as much as I did when I was little! Sure the script is a hot mess but it's all in good fun. And for every bad thing I just listed there's still two other things I love about it! The fights are creative, the art direction is beautiful, the soundtrack is addicting, the cinematography is unique, the characters are fun (i.e. Captain Gordon and Supreme Leader X-boi), and the effects are great. Another thing that I liked was that in spite of all the insanity going on, was that had it tried to convey imporant ideas like not letting your anger overtake you, choosing who you want to be, and forgiveness--even if they did drop the ball so they could have more kaiju action.
I think the best way to look at it is as a celebration Toho threw in honour of everything cool about Godzilla, or as a way to say "goodbye for now" without getting too sentimental. And as for everything else: that's what happens when you get Ryuhei Kitamura to MC.
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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby latinothor » Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:39 pm

I consider Final Wars to be a potential masterpiece


I do consider Godzilla Final Wars a masterpiece. Could it be better? Any movie could be better, if we added what in our minds think it'd be better. Longer battles? Sure, but I understand the monsters are not the main plot. They're just cameos to the story as a service to fans.

Godzilla FW is the one Godzilla movie that I find myself watching it regularly and feeling pumped about it. Not sad or depressed as it might be the case with some other movies from the series.

Captain Gordon, God bless his soul. Good ol' Don Fry is such a badass. It's one of the few peeps that I can actually picture in the helicopter alongside Arnold and his team in the Predator movie, and not feel out of place (would probably be able to kick all of the team asses if left to his own devices hah).

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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby Grievous » Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:46 am

Because Godzilla is hardly in the film?

Because the music is dull & flat?

Because it feels too much like a Japanese Matrix film?

Because the effects are incredibly uneven?

I don't know...

I'm sure there is a portion of the Toho/Kaiju fandom that
hates every Godzilla film in some way.
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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby latinothor » Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:19 pm

To answer those arguments, from my point of view of course.
The first hour Godzilla is not in the film indeed, except for the intro. But the second half it all belongs to the King. His presence is totally felt during the second half.

Perhaps the most bad ass theme of the saga, could totally fit into another badass film like the Spartans in the 300 movie:
https://youtu.be/49PhT8z-IF4

Just like prior Godzilla movies, Godzilla Final Wars plays homage to popular movies at the time. Matrix and Xmen were, and still are popular.

And on your last point, Godzilla Final Wars includes the good, the bad and the ugly of the series. Effects and all, the movie commemorates 50 years of history of the Godzilla saga.

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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby PitchBlackProgress » Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:09 am

Are there any fans of this movie over the age of 18 who feel it’s a fine sendoff?
Last edited by PitchBlackProgress on Sun Jan 27, 2019 5:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Yeah, Godzilla wins... sometimes. I mean, he was killed by Dr. Serizawa's patented bubble-bath formula, heartburn, missiles, and poor box office returns, got his ass kicked by a drunken, circus-escaped gorilla, then he was beaten by two newborn worms, yeah some “king”.
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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby szmigiel » Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:30 am

PitchBlackProgress wrote:Are there any fans of this movie over the age of 18?

Plenty

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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby latinothor » Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:03 am

Are there any fans of this movie over the age of 18?


Is this a real question or just being moronic?

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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby SonofAnguirus » Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:09 am

PitchBlackProgress wrote:Are there any fans of this movie over the age of 18?


On the off-chance this question is real, I'll answer sincerely. I am 31 and love this movie. It's not my favorite, and I do agree with a lot of the issues many fans seem to have with it. They just don't do anything to discourage my love of this movie. I love it because of its flaws, not despite them.

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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby PitchBlackProgress » Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:13 am

Ok, I think what I meant was: is there anybody here above the age of 18 who believes this was the perfect sendoff for Godzilla?
Last edited by PitchBlackProgress on Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
Yeah, Godzilla wins... sometimes. I mean, he was killed by Dr. Serizawa's patented bubble-bath formula, heartburn, missiles, and poor box office returns, got his ass kicked by a drunken, circus-escaped gorilla, then he was beaten by two newborn worms, yeah some “king”.
#slatternking

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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby Terasawa » Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:12 am

This was Toho's attempt at making an internationally relevant Godzilla film for his 50th anniversary, and honestly this would still be just as bad a movie if it was made any other year besides 2004. This is one of the few truly embarrassing entries in the Godzilla series. It's like Kitamura's crew saw The Matrix and said "we can do that too!" They wanted to make a cool modern action movie and the end result is simply foolish. It only feels like a Godzilla movie if you think Godzilla movies consist of the King of the Monsters going scene to scene to beat on other silly monsters with interminable "human scenes" fill out the rest of the bloated 2-hour runtime.

I can't separate the film from that context and it will always play a big part in why I really don't like this movie at all.
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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby PitchBlackProgress » Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:00 pm

^ My thoughts exactly, to the folks out there who only watch these movies for the “fights”, yeah I could see this being a fan favorite, but as someone who prefers a more plot and character driven story, it just doesn’t sit well.
Yeah, Godzilla wins... sometimes. I mean, he was killed by Dr. Serizawa's patented bubble-bath formula, heartburn, missiles, and poor box office returns, got his ass kicked by a drunken, circus-escaped gorilla, then he was beaten by two newborn worms, yeah some “king”.
#slatternking

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Re: Final Wars: Why The Hate?

Postby latinothor » Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:39 pm

Ok, I think what I meant was: is there anybody here above the age of 18 who believes this was the perfect sendoff for Godzilla?


As feebly as your backpedalling is, I'll answer: Perfect? That's a matter of opinion. I could state that GFW was perfect, and that would be just an opinion. But Yes, Godzilla Final Wars is a GREAT send off for the King of the Monsters.

We got cameos from old monsters, great amount of action, nostalgia, and an overall sense of fun and never a dull moment. The movie also cements Godzilla as the one, true King of Monsters. For this, and many other reasons, GFW is on my top list in the Godzilla series, topped only by the masterpiece that is 1954's Gojira.


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