Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

For the discussion of Toho produced and distributed films or shows released from 1999 to 2015.
User avatar
ShinGojira14
Futurian
Posts: 3564
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:08 pm
Location: The beautiful Pacific Northwest

Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by ShinGojira14 »

Spuro wrote: Fri Dec 24, 2021 7:08 am
MechaGoji Bro7503 wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 2:50 pm Godzilla himself is wonderful. I believe he was the first to start the trend of Godzilla's dorsal plates being seen above the waves when he's charging towards shore.
I’d hate to break it to you… but that now classic trope was actually invented by G98 of all things.
G84 did it first, actually. And so did vs Destoroyah. Both before 98.
"Okay, so I guess you’re just going to Tom Brady your way out of everything, is that it? What’s the matter, can’t do it on your own?"

Resized ImageResized Image

Al Diplodocus
Interpol Agent
Posts: 451
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2020 7:36 am
Location: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada, and occasionally Brossard, Quebec and Chicago, Illinois

Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by Al Diplodocus »

So i'm part of a larger project on Alternatehistory.com, specifically the Hippie in the House of Mouse project, and for it I'm currently writing an entry relating to Godzilla, and for the purpose of research, I ask is it true Godzilla 2000 came about because of '98 have a delay in production? Because its been planned by the lead writer for its American Godzilla film to debut in 1997 instead.

User avatar
Omegamorph
Monarch Researcher
Posts: 360
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:20 am
Contact:

Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by Omegamorph »

Punk-skreonk great movie, pure 90s anime style
Platypus Prime wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:21 pm I realized today that thanks to a few animations and manga she's appeared in, Biollante is an anime girl.

Legion1979
Sazer
Posts: 13340
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:45 pm

Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by Legion1979 »

Anime style?

That's a new one.

User avatar
Omegamorph
Monarch Researcher
Posts: 360
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:20 am
Contact:

Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by Omegamorph »

Legion1979 wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 8:18 am Anime style?

That's a new one.
Indeed, the concept art for G2K and the final look seem to suggest an "anime-fied" G62. This is later enhanced in the GxM version (which faces an Evangelion-like MG)
Platypus Prime wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:21 pm I realized today that thanks to a few animations and manga she's appeared in, Biollante is an anime girl.

User avatar
canofhumdingers
G-Grasper
Posts: 1473
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:34 pm

Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by canofhumdingers »

ShinGojira14 wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 10:59 am
Spuro wrote: Fri Dec 24, 2021 7:08 am
MechaGoji Bro7503 wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 2:50 pm Godzilla himself is wonderful. I believe he was the first to start the trend of Godzilla's dorsal plates being seen above the waves when he's charging towards shore.
I’d hate to break it to you… but that now classic trope was actually invented by G98 of all things.
G84 did it first, actually. And so did vs Destoroyah. Both before 98.
Didn’t Godzilla Raids Again feature a shot or two of Godzilla swimming with his dorsal fins poking out? And Son of Godzilla? And maybe a few other Showa films. I know Gigan features Godzilla and Anguirus swimming with their heads above the water but can’t remember any shots of just the fins.

User avatar
JAGzilla
Sazer
Posts: 10310
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:45 pm
Location: Georgia

Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by JAGzilla »

I'm rewatching this right now, currently fourteen minutes in. Last viewing was in 2014, and I could barely see it thanks to the sun glaring on the TV. This time I don't have that problem, so I could appreciate how cool the whole Nemuro attack sequence was. Godzilla silhouetted against the orange background of smoke and fog, just towering imposingly over the small buildings and fleeing civilians in the foreground. All those great shots following the car as it drives alongside and then away from him. It's short, but probably a top ten Godzilla city rampage scene.

I decided to try the Japanese version this time. We'll see how that goes. I know some of my favorite scenes won't hit the same without Ifukube's score, but I guess I'll deal. I'm curious to see how Hattori handles them.

EDIT: I wonder what ever happened to that little homemade GPN sign. That would be an awesome collectors item.

EDIT: I will definitely say that Hattori does a fantastic job building a sense of awe and wonder around the UFO. He totally makes every scene that thing is in.

The military battle was better than I'd remembered. The Full Metal Missiles feel powerful and vicious, and you do feel like Godzilla is standing up to an honestly intense attack. The purple sunset sky makes a really nice backdrop for this scene, too.

I love the random, stupid approach this movie takes to comic relief. The guy who gives reporter lady directions hitting his coworker over the head, the people arguing on the train. The general using the UFO to excuse his failure got a good laugh out of me. "If that thing hadn't shown up, we could have -" :lol:

EDIT: Done. In terms of polished, competent filmmaking, this is one of the best Godzilla entries of its day, better than anything else between 1991 and 2014, with only GMK on a similar or higher level. It has hiccups; visual quality was all over the place, though some of that was probably the Blu-ray transfer's fault. The sound and music do falter during the final battle, and I can see why the US edit punched things up; more on that below. The CGI is very dated, of course. But overall, it works. Godzilla is a total badass, Orga was a unique and memorable new enemy, and the human characters were leaps and bounds more interesting and charismatic than the '90s Heisei standard.

The climax of the human action, the skyscraper demolition/escape scene, was uncommonly good for the kaiju genre. Miyasaka, wracked with guilt, tries to atone for his mistake by saving his friend. Katagiri doesn't. I actually felt something as Shinoda bravely risked his life to save the data and escape, and Io worries about him. Even annoying, selfish Yuki gets her little redemption moment by going back for Shinoda. It's a high point of human drama in this franchise, for sure. It's kind of let down afterwards by the data being ultimately unnecessary, though. It would have been nice if our heroes could've done something with it to sabotage the UFO and help Godzilla, but I can respect the decision to go with the Honda tradition and leave the humans as ineffectual observers on a rooftop while the gods duke it out for the fate of the world.

I was surprised to hear the Ifukube track start up when Godzilla entered Tokyo. I'd been under the impression that Hattori scored the whole movie. It's a little frustrating that he didn't get to, but that is my favorite rendition of the Godzilla March, so I'm not going to complain, exactly. And yeah, as stated, the battle plays pretty differently compared to the US version. Some scenes are lacking oomph, like the UFO dropping the skyscraper on Godzilla's head, or the opening blows of G vs. Orga. Orga himself feels very different, much less threatening. His weak little roar and the lack of intimidating music make him feel kind of pitiful, actually. There's a line of dialogue that was omitted from the US version, something about the alien's body not accepting the Organizer G-1. He ends up acquiring this tragic, desperate feeling, and you even feel sorry for him at times as Godzilla beats on him. It sort of works interestingly in its own right, but doesn't fit the overall context very well. Orga was a cocky bastard throughout the rest of the movie, and we see that he has no qualms about killing us all and conquering Earth. We should be cheering when Godzilla kills him, not feeling conflicted. Well... I guess it sounds bad when I say it like that. I definitely approve of grey-area morality and complex villains in media, but this instance could have been executed better.
Last edited by JAGzilla on Thu Aug 11, 2022 3:57 pm, edited 4 times in total.
"Stop wars and no more accidents. I guess that's all I can ask." -Akio

User avatar
Terasawa
Xilien Halfling
Posts: 5841
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:06 am

Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by Terasawa »

JAGzilla wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 12:27 pm I was surprised to hear the Ifukube track start up when Godzilla entered Tokyo. I'd been under the impression that Hattori scored the whole movie. It's a little frustrating that he didn't get to, but that is my favorite rendition of the Godzilla March, so I'm not going to complain, exactly.
Both G2K and GxM have a stock Ifukube track score Godzilla's third act entrance, which is so uniform that I think it must have been Shogo Tomiyama's doing. On the other hand, Kensho Yamashita (Godzilla vs SpaceGodzilla) said it was his own idea to use Ifukube music for Godzilla's Baas Island arrival in that film, so maybe Okawara and Tezuka chose to use Ifukube music in G2K and GxM, respectively. (But then GxM is the only Tezuka film with Ifukube music, so perhaps it wasn't his idea after all. Who knows.)
寺沢. He/him/his, etc.

User avatar
LSD Jellyfish
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 11072
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:57 pm

Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by LSD Jellyfish »

I just rewatched this. Great, but also a little uneven at this point. I definitely like how it works (and looks) overall than any of the post 1991 Heisei films, and it’s definitely my second favorite Millenium entry after GMK.
JAGzilla wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 12:27 pmI'm rewatching this right now, currently fourteen minutes in. Last viewing was in 2014, and I could barely see it thanks to the sun glaring on the TV. This time I don't have that problem, so I could appreciate how cool the whole Nemuro attack sequence was. Godzilla silhouetted against the orange background of smoke and fog, just towering imposingly over the small buildings and fleeing civilians in the foreground. All those great shots following the car as it drives alongside and then away from him. It's short, but probably a top ten Godzilla city rampage scene.
Yeah. Not to mention it had some of the best compositing in the series. It’s a shame that some of the later compositing isn’t so great, but there’s some amazing moments during that sequence that make it seem like Godzilla is really there.

I agree about the fantastic lighting as well. I used to not like it so much, but I love the idea of Godzilla being lit up by his own fire he creates.

As an aside, Nemuro is a pretty interesting location to focus on in a Godzilla film. It’s sort of in the super sticks of the Hokkaido region, an already rare location in the genre.
The military battle was better than I'd remembered. The Full Metal Missiles feel powerful and vicious, and you do feel like Godzilla is standing up to an honestly intense attack. The purple sunset sky makes a really nice backdrop for this scene, too.
Yeah. What I also like are the full metal missiles. If you’ve seen other Godzilla films this military scene can feel underwhelming. But in the context of the film, it’s set up as a tense and effective moment. The military is successfully luring Godzilla into a trap, one with a new super weapon, that does actually blow chunks out of Godzilla. While who knows if the operation would have killed Godzilla (probably not), it is interesting seeing them actually damage Godzilla like that. It provides tension, and I like how the UFO shows up to finish off Godzilla.

I like how the Millenian(s) are a total mystery and truly alien (unlike let’s say showa aliens that are in human disguises). We get ideas of what it’s thinking of, but it’s never substantial. Sure it wants to take over earth, but there’s also a lot to say that it is pathetic and a little desperate just to survive. A lot of people have complained how Orgas hands don’t do much, but I now interpret it as it’s just a horribly deformed creature. The battle isn’t the most enticing, but I love how the threat of Orga isn’t it overpowering Godzilla, but just continually regenerating. It’s still not super intimidating, but I love that moment where Orga fakes Godzilla out with its beam (charges), and jumps away from Godzilla while holding its attention, before the burnt UFO slams into Godzilla. It’s a great moment of strategic planning that is a bit rare.

Orga fits the film well because it’s a monster that doesn’t take away the spotlight from Godzilla. For being a film with another monster, I like how much of the focus is on Godzilla being a rare and majestic creature rather than just a monster appears and Godzilla is thrown in.

It’s been mentioned, but I like the characters and light comedy throughout. A lot of it reminds me of the Showa humor; nothing too distracting or offensive, but a little cheery and light hearted.

“What! I thought we were going fishing?”
“I thought we were going bug catching!”
Last edited by LSD Jellyfish on Fri Sep 16, 2022 5:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
Rodan95 wrote:The Shobijin are sat on by a fatass explorer and killed. Mothra is pissed and destroys Japan.

User avatar
cloverfan98
Site Staff
Site Staff
Posts: 1329
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:55 am

Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by cloverfan98 »

I maintain to this day the Millenniums (is that a Toho sanctioned name or just fan created title?) are the scariest invader species from any Godzilla film. Their absolute lack of communication with the human cast and never bothering to explain their own actions is terrifying. The pest controller dosen't explain to the ants why he's removing their ant hill and wiping them out he just does it and thats how far above humanity the Millenniums are portrayed.

User avatar
LSD Jellyfish
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 11072
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:57 pm

Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by LSD Jellyfish »

cloverfan98 wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 8:05 am I maintain to this day the Millenniums (is that a Toho sanctioned name or just fan created title?) are the scariest invader species from any Godzilla film. Their absolute lack of communication with the human cast and never bothering to explain their own actions is terrifying. The pest controller dosen't explain to the ants why he's removing their ant hill and wiping them out he just does it and thats how far above humanity the Millenniums are portrayed.
I don’t think they’re the scariest alien race I’ve ever encountered in a SF movie, but they’re definitely up there in creepiness factor for a Godzilla film. Most of the other aliens in Godzilla are assuming humanoid forms and relish in camp+easy to understand goals.

One thing I thought about G2000 is how Orga sort of steals the spotlight in the worst way possible. Orga is a weird monster, as it’s not really the antagonist of the film (sort of). The UFO/Millenians are, and Orga shows up in the last few minutes. It’s one of the very few monsters in the series to exclusively show up in the climax (the other being Monster X/Keizer Ghidorah) and it makes itself short lived. The rest of the narrative is focused on the UFO, which actually “fights” Godzilla twice. Orga is the Millenian/s, but it’s a shame the UFO doesn’t appear more in Godzilla popular culture, as it has more screen time and significance than the monster it spawns. It also has a decent amount of “moves” to use on opponents.
Rodan95 wrote:The Shobijin are sat on by a fatass explorer and killed. Mothra is pissed and destroys Japan.

edgaguirus
Xilien Halfling
Posts: 7370
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:25 pm

Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by edgaguirus »

I feel the UFO was doing a much better job against Godzilla than Orga. Aliens are always using monsters to attack Godzilla but surrounding Godzilla with a fleet of ships would be effective, and also create an exciting effects sequence.
Walk this way...This way.

Remember this, Dr. Glendon, the werewolf instinctively seeks to kill the thing it loves best.

User avatar
LSD Jellyfish
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 11072
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:57 pm

Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by LSD Jellyfish »

Oh one thing I wanted to mention that I forgot to:

I love that when the UFO, still encased in rocks, rises to the surface, we see it bubble as it causes waves and breaks the tension onthe surface of the water. We cut away to Io making dinner, and the first thing she does is throw some food in oil to make some kind of tempura. We see the tempura bubble and it elicits the same image we've just seen. It's a small and unimportant editing choice that I like a lot.
Rodan95 wrote:The Shobijin are sat on by a fatass explorer and killed. Mothra is pissed and destroys Japan.

User avatar
JAGzilla
Sazer
Posts: 10310
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:45 pm
Location: Georgia

Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by JAGzilla »

LSD Jellyfish wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:27 pm Oh one thing I wanted to mention that I forgot to:

I love that when the UFO, still encased in rocks, rises to the surface, we see it bubble as it causes waves and breaks the tension onthe surface of the water. We cut away to Io making dinner, and the first thing she does is throw some food in oil to make some kind of tempura. We see the tempura bubble and it elicits the same image we've just seen. It's a small and unimportant editing choice that I like a lot.
Ha, good catch. I missed that.
"Stop wars and no more accidents. I guess that's all I can ask." -Akio

edgaguirus
Xilien Halfling
Posts: 7370
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:25 pm

Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by edgaguirus »

no matter how you fry it, it was a good visual connect.
Walk this way...This way.

Remember this, Dr. Glendon, the werewolf instinctively seeks to kill the thing it loves best.

User avatar
MogeGoji1994
GPN Volunteer
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:44 pm

Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by MogeGoji1994 »

Just rewatched the American cut of the film recently, really enjoyed it. One thing I don't understand is what was up with Katagiri at the end of the movie? Why did he stand there and refuse to move, and why exactly did he scream "GODZILLA" in that iconic moment? Watching it my dad and I were very confused by what was going on there
Image

-HE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN TH-

User avatar
Janjira-York
G-Force Personnel
Posts: 702
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:18 am

Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by Janjira-York »

a lot of the score of this movie is sooooo goood


I was listening the whole soundtrack on youtube last night

this is definitely my entrance to the franchise along side g98.

the miregoji theme, the score when the ufo attacks, hell the ufo has a very odd ethereal chant thats eerie, and legit not like tearing up but the calm theme music for the regenerator g1 score hit me like a wall of bricks like the franchise is filled with badass and action themes, slow pondering music and happy tunes at times of triumph, but this one is just so magical I guess its the word I want to use? it hit me to 2001-3 when I watched the movie soooo much in my TV.


and I dont know how to articulate it but when G comes to the bay to fight the aliens in the last act the classic Akira Ifukube march is made so much heavier and idk special? without being the generic shit fans in youtube made for themes of super heroes or godzilla or whatever where they just hit reverb on a mixer, slow it down and add badly synthetic choirs.The march manages to be slower and the tempo too but not too much its a tiny bit deeper and If you have good ear or some good headphones you can hit the acustics of the Im gonna guess Cello? and it just hits differently its broad and heavy but not too much kinda like Gs movements when he tears the streets marching for that ufo it felt personal and a climatic moment


I was in awe as a kid because i didnt have the fan expectation of ''WHERE IS THE CLASSIC THEME THIS NEW ONE SUCKS'' so when that piece of music came out I remember being astonished and in awe it comes back again in the credits but its definitely different to the usual classic march




and of course the main theme for the movie is under rated it really has its own life and spirit recognizable of godzilla and is hummable all day long, like an earworm hitting you when you don't expect it

User avatar
JAGzilla
Sazer
Posts: 10310
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:45 pm
Location: Georgia

Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by JAGzilla »

MogeGoji1994 wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 12:57 pm Just rewatched the American cut of the film recently, really enjoyed it. One thing I don't understand is what was up with Katagiri at the end of the movie? Why did he stand there and refuse to move, and why exactly did he scream "GODZILLA" in that iconic moment? Watching it my dad and I were very confused by what was going on there
My interpretation has always been that it was his way of committing suicide, which is of course a traditional way of dealing with failure in Japan. He had been wrong about Godzilla's value while his rival Shinoda was right, he had failed to destroy the UFO with nearly apocalyptic consequences, and he obviously didn't have a snowball's chance in Hell of completing his mission to kill Godzilla. He conceded defeat, didn't want to live with it, and let his enemy take him out.
"Stop wars and no more accidents. I guess that's all I can ask." -Akio

User avatar
LSD Jellyfish
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 11072
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:57 pm

Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by LSD Jellyfish »

JAGzilla wrote: Wed Oct 19, 2022 9:01 am My interpretation has always been that it was his way of committing suicide, which is of course a traditional way of dealing with failure in Japan. He had been wrong about Godzilla's value while his rival Shinoda was right, he had failed to destroy the UFO with nearly apocalyptic consequences, and he obviously didn't have a snowball's chance in Hell of completing his mission to kill Godzilla. He conceded defeat, didn't want to live with it, and let his enemy take him out.
I don't think we need to read anything into Katagiri regarding "traditional Japan" or suicide. I think that lessens Katagiri's autonomy. There's plenty of people who fail and lose in Godzilla films that don't off themselves. :P But other than that, your take has always been my interpretation.

Another thing to notice is that this is actually the first time Katagiri has seen Godzilla up close.
I'm trying to remember this in my mind, but I believe Katagiri is very clearly impressed by Godzilla. He says something like "sugoi" as he's wide eyed, and lights a cigarette. It's possible that he's just dumbstruck by Godzilla, both paralyzed with fear, excitement, and intrigue. While Shinoda is up close and personal with the monsters throughout the movie (opening scene, bike on the beach and collecting cells, tower), Katagiri has always been relatively removed from the action.

Speaking of Katagiri, the man who potrays him, Abe Hiroshi, is a pretty well-known and popular actor in Japan. I see him in commercials all the damn time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiroshi_Abe_(actor)
Rodan95 wrote:The Shobijin are sat on by a fatass explorer and killed. Mothra is pissed and destroys Japan.

edgaguirus
Xilien Halfling
Posts: 7370
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:25 pm

Re: Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

Post by edgaguirus »

MogeGoji1994 wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 12:57 pm Just rewatched the American cut of the film recently, really enjoyed it. One thing I don't understand is what was up with Katagiri at the end of the movie? Why did he stand there and refuse to move, and why exactly did he scream "GODZILLA" in that iconic moment? Watching it my dad and I were very confused by what was going on there
Katagiri always struck me as arrogant and self assured. While the others were frightened by the approaching monster, Katagiri is more curious, finally able to meet the enemy he's been trying to kill face to face. That he thinks he can figuratively stand eye to eye with Godzilla is on par with his personality.
Walk this way...This way.

Remember this, Dr. Glendon, the werewolf instinctively seeks to kill the thing it loves best.

Post Reply