Talkback: Godzilla 2000 Millennium (1999)

[edgaguirus]

I feel the UFO was doing a much better job against Godzilla than Orga. Aliens are always using monsters to attack Godzilla but surrounding Godzilla with a fleet of ships would be effective, and also create an exciting effects sequence.

[LSD Jellyfish]

Oh one thing I wanted to mention that I forgot to:

I love that when the UFO, still encased in rocks, rises to the surface, we see it bubble as it causes waves and breaks the tension onthe surface of the water. We cut away to Io making dinner, and the first thing she does is throw some food in oil to make some kind of tempura. We see the tempura bubble and it elicits the same image we've just seen. It's a small and unimportant editing choice that I like a lot.

[JAGzilla]

Oh one thing I wanted to mention that I forgot to:

I love that when the UFO, still encased in rocks, rises to the surface, we see it bubble as it causes waves and breaks the tension onthe surface of the water. We cut away to Io making dinner, and the first thing she does is throw some food in oil to make some kind of tempura. We see the tempura bubble and it elicits the same image we've just seen. It's a small and unimportant editing choice that I like a lot.

Ha, good catch. I missed that.

[edgaguirus]

no matter how you fry it, it was a good visual connect.

[MogeGoji1994]

Just rewatched the American cut of the film recently, really enjoyed it. One thing I don't understand is what was up with Katagiri at the end of the movie? Why did he stand there and refuse to move, and why exactly did he scream "GODZILLA" in that iconic moment? Watching it my dad and I were very confused by what was going on there

[Janjira-York]

a lot of the score of this movie is sooooo goood


I was listening the whole soundtrack on youtube last night

this is definitely my entrance to the franchise along side g98.

the miregoji theme, the score when the ufo attacks, hell the ufo has a very odd ethereal chant thats eerie, and legit not like tearing up but the calm theme music for the regenerator g1 score hit me like a wall of bricks like the franchise is filled with badass and action themes, slow pondering music and happy tunes at times of triumph, but this one is just so magical I guess its the word I want to use? it hit me to 2001-3 when I watched the movie soooo much in my TV.


and I dont know how to articulate it but when G comes to the bay to fight the aliens in the last act the classic Akira Ifukube march is made so much heavier and idk special? without being the generic shit fans in youtube made for themes of super heroes or godzilla or whatever where they just hit reverb on a mixer, slow it down and add badly synthetic choirs.The march manages to be slower and the tempo too but not too much its a tiny bit deeper and If you have good ear or some good headphones you can hit the acustics of the Im gonna guess Cello? and it just hits differently its broad and heavy but not too much kinda like Gs movements when he tears the streets marching for that ufo it felt personal and a climatic moment


I was in awe as a kid because i didnt have the fan expectation of ''WHERE IS THE CLASSIC THEME THIS NEW ONE SUCKS'' so when that piece of music came out I remember being astonished and in awe it comes back again in the credits but its definitely different to the usual classic march




and of course the main theme for the movie is under rated it really has its own life and spirit recognizable of godzilla and is hummable all day long, like an earworm hitting you when you don't expect it

[JAGzilla]

Just rewatched the American cut of the film recently, really enjoyed it. One thing I don't understand is what was up with Katagiri at the end of the movie? Why did he stand there and refuse to move, and why exactly did he scream "GODZILLA" in that iconic moment? Watching it my dad and I were very confused by what was going on there

My interpretation has always been that it was his way of committing suicide, which is of course a traditional way of dealing with failure in Japan. He had been wrong about Godzilla's value while his rival Shinoda was right, he had failed to destroy the UFO with nearly apocalyptic consequences, and he obviously didn't have a snowball's chance in Hell of completing his mission to kill Godzilla. He conceded defeat, didn't want to live with it, and let his enemy take him out.

[LSD Jellyfish]

My interpretation has always been that it was his way of committing suicide, which is of course a traditional way of dealing with failure in Japan. He had been wrong about Godzilla's value while his rival Shinoda was right, he had failed to destroy the UFO with nearly apocalyptic consequences, and he obviously didn't have a snowball's chance in Hell of completing his mission to kill Godzilla. He conceded defeat, didn't want to live with it, and let his enemy take him out.

I don't think we need to read anything into Katagiri regarding "traditional Japan" or suicide. I think that lessens Katagiri's autonomy. There's plenty of people who fail and lose in Godzilla films that don't off themselves. But other than that, your take has always been my interpretation.

Another thing to notice is that this is actually the first time Katagiri has seen Godzilla up close.
I'm trying to remember this in my mind, but I believe Katagiri is very clearly impressed by Godzilla. He says something like "sugoi" as he's wide eyed, and lights a cigarette. It's possible that he's just dumbstruck by Godzilla, both paralyzed with fear, excitement, and intrigue. While Shinoda is up close and personal with the monsters throughout the movie (opening scene, bike on the beach and collecting cells, tower), Katagiri has always been relatively removed from the action.

Speaking of Katagiri, the man who potrays him, Abe Hiroshi, is a pretty well-known and popular actor in Japan. I see him in commercials all the damn time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiroshi_Abe_(actor)

[edgaguirus]

Just rewatched the American cut of the film recently, really enjoyed it. One thing I don't understand is what was up with Katagiri at the end of the movie? Why did he stand there and refuse to move, and why exactly did he scream "GODZILLA" in that iconic moment? Watching it my dad and I were very confused by what was going on there

Katagiri always struck me as arrogant and self assured. While the others were frightened by the approaching monster, Katagiri is more curious, finally able to meet the enemy he's been trying to kill face to face. That he thinks he can figuratively stand eye to eye with Godzilla is on par with his personality.

[LSD Jellyfish]

Now that I think about it, the cigarette makes the scene ambigious. You can interpret it as arrogance (Katagiri not realizing how dangerous the situtation he is in) or acceptance of failure (Katagiri realizes he cannot beat Godzilla and accepts his defeat.

[MechaGoji Bro7503]

There's so much genuinely great ideas to pull and interpret from that scene, that's why it's always stuck with me. Even if we don't focus on the latter part where Godzilla starts destroying Tokyo - Godzilla walking up to Katagiri alone as if he knew who this man was, and eyeing him down before striking him feels really personal. The film could have easily ended with Godzilla waltzing out to sea again and happily ever after, but the fact that it conveys how Godzilla is truly aware of humanity and perhaps knows that the grudge is mutual, is splendid character work. While we only hear of Katagiri's past with Godzilla, I think his final scene is just enough to visually tell the audience everything we need to know and can fill in the blanks about. I also love how the entire ending ties back into Orga and the Millennians, really making the human and monster sides of the story have a reason to coincide.

I do personally interpret the cigarette as acceptance of failure, mostly due to all the crime dramas where an antagonist is seen smoking one last time before a confrontation. Just that bit of "finality" is what Katagiri's end reminds me of.

[Janjira-York]

katagiri mega balls when in defeat no mech no nothing just stares down the dreaded god is a great scene

[Kurgan2]

Orga forgot one of the most important rules: Never try to eat anything bigger than your head.

[edgaguirus]

Or that can spit radioactive death rays.

[LSD Jellyfish]

How do people feel about the final climax/monet of the fight? It's something that when I was younger I didn't like so much. It felt unsatisfying to have a cheap ending to the fight, where Godzilla doesn't directly just overpower Orga, but rather just gets lucky that Orga did something stupid.

Now I appreciate it as a "phase three of the fight" (UFO round 1, Orga, Orga-Godzilla Hybrid). It caps off that the Millenians are desperate and forced into a bad corner.

[shadowgigan]

How do people feel about the final climax/monet of the fight? It's something that when I was younger I didn't like so much. It felt unsatisfying to have a cheap ending to the fight, where Godzilla doesn't directly just overpower Orga, but rather just gets lucky that Orga did something stupid.

Now I appreciate it as a "phase three of the fight" (UFO round 1, Orga, Orga-Godzilla Hybrid). It caps off that the Millenians are desperate and forced into a bad corner.

Do you like Godzilla vs the UFO? I always thought that was entertaining. I actually liked the ending of G2K, if nothing more than I thought it was pretty badass.

[edgaguirus]

It seemed like the best way to take out Orga. Every external hit, even a major one, kept healing over. Internal damage hit the vital parts that Orga couldn't repair.

[StardustGenius]

The visuals for the closing moments are easily some of the best in the entire series. The flames, and lighting, and composition are all top notch. This is a lot of the same crew behind the Heisei films, but they just needed some fresh direction.

[LSD Jellyfish]

Do you like Godzilla vs the UFO? I always thought that was entertaining. I actually liked the ending of G2K, if nothing more than I thought it was pretty badass.

Yes, I love it. I've stated this before, but to me Orga is not the main antagonist of the film, the UFO is. The UFO is the "main monster. It's the thing that provides intrigue, and (briefly) "fights" Godzilla in the middle of the film. The military tries routinely to stop it, from tying it down, to scanning it, to trying to blow it up. The fight with Godzilla and the UFO is substantial enough too. It was a unique enemy for Godzilla and attacked him in interesting ways (telepathically controlling matter and creating wires to drag Godzilla around+using shockwaves from above). It compliments what follows very well, we move from a frail UFO that attacks Godzilla with energy and is quick, to a slow moving lumbering beast that can tank Godzilla's hits repeatedly.

Taken by itself, the fight of Godzilla vs. Orga can seem underhwelming, but when you view the entire thing as a whole (the UFO), it's a satisfying drawnout bout with twists and turns, culminating in one final firey explosion.

The relationship between the UFO, the Millenians, and Orga is a strange one, and definitely is one of the most unique relationships between "monsters" in the franchise. One might say it's beyond our comprehension. The Millenians are essentially the most alien life in the series (maybe save for Hedorah) but we never really learn about them. A clue we have, is that the UFO is filled with some form of gas, and other than that seems to be hollow. In that way, the UFO is the Millenians form. The UFO is a vessel for the Millenians, and simulatenously their body. It's not as simple as lets say the Xilliens piloting one of their UFOs, it's a different form of life that we can't understand. We get hints that it's a gaseous creature, that can form a body from solidifying. We see the tentacles it makes, then the invisible tentacles it uses to absorb data. The film speculates, through the scientists, that they discarded their bodies for the long journey, but this raises lots of questions.

The UFO temporarily beats Godzilla, and absorbs his DNA. It uses that to make the Millenian, but who knows if that was it's original form.

So, temporarily, the Millenian gets a physical form, outside it's ship. The G-Cells and Organizer G-1 mutate it, into Orga. A grotesque Godzilla/Millenian Hybrid. Orga is not the Millenian's final form, it's an abomination. We know this because of how the Millenian seemingly cries out in pain during it's mutation, and how it's desperate to continue to absorb Godzilla's DNA to complete the process. Orga is not "the final form" or the "apex version" of the Millenians. It's not a vertical power upgrade like Destoroyah turing into it's final form, but rather a horizontal change.

It's been well-documented, but Orga is a victim of thematic intent vs. POWER. The games, comics, and extended media have all turned Orga into a hulking brute, on the same tier as Destoroyah, or SpaceGodzilla. Even the English Dub tries to make Orga more threatening by changing his roar. To me, Orga is sad. A sad and pathetic creature. Many people are critical of Orga's hands and fingers not moving, but to me that ties into Orga's intent, it's a malformed creature. Orga is a disorted Godzilla. The Millenians got a body, but it was pathetic. We see it over the course of the fight also get stronger, and seemingly more in control.

I find the UFO, the Millenian's, and Orga's relationship to one another, and Godzilla, one of the coolest in the franchise. I like how there's no real statements or information on them too. I feel if you view the film's final fight as just Godzilla vs. Orga it'll be dissapointing, but the entire package is neat.

[shadowgigan]

Do you like Godzilla vs the UFO? I always thought that was entertaining. I actually liked the ending of G2K, if nothing more than I thought it was pretty badass.

Yes, I love it. I've stated this before, but to me Orga is not the main antagonist of the film, the UFO is. The UFO is the "main monster. It's the thing that provides intrigue, and (briefly) "fights" Godzilla in the middle of the film. The military tries routinely to stop it, from tying it down, to scanning it, to trying to blow it up. The fight with Godzilla and the UFO is substantial enough too. It was a unique enemy for Godzilla and attacked him in interesting ways (telepathically controlling matter and creating wires to drag Godzilla around+using shockwaves from above).

This is how I kind of view the film. It was a lot more interesting when it was just the UFO, and I think it makes for a quick cryptic villian.