Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

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edgaguirus
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

Post by edgaguirus »

As an homage to past films, it does work. If you were to take away the Matrix and action film elements, you'd have an old school Godzilla film that brings back all the old friends and enemies of Godzilla.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

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edgaguirus wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 10:31 pm As an homage to past films, it does work. If you were to take away the Matrix and action film elements, you'd have an old school Godzilla film that brings back all the old friends and enemies of Godzilla.
Well, at the very least, if you were to to take away the Matrix and action film elements, you'd be left with a very brief highlight reel featuring the old friends and enemies of Godzilla.
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godjacob
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

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eabaker wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:35 am
edgaguirus wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 10:31 pm As an homage to past films, it does work. If you were to take away the Matrix and action film elements, you'd have an old school Godzilla film that brings back all the old friends and enemies of Godzilla.
Well, at the very least, if you were to to take away the Matrix and action film elements, you'd be left with a very brief highlight reel featuring the old friends and enemies of Godzilla.
Still more screen time than the monsters got in Destroy All Monsters.

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

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Terasawa wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:34 pm IMO GFW is aesthetically much closer to a 2000s Hollywood action movie than any previous Godzilla movie.
Exactly, I completely agree. Except that this is one of the reasons I loved it as a kid, but it fell out of favor as I grew older.

Rewatching it as a 28 year old, its a fun movie. I actually really enjoyed the alien plot in the first third of the film as well.
Last edited by shadowgigan on Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

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godjacob wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:12 am
eabaker wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:35 am
edgaguirus wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 10:31 pm As an homage to past films, it does work. If you were to take away the Matrix and action film elements, you'd have an old school Godzilla film that brings back all the old friends and enemies of Godzilla.
Well, at the very least, if you were to to take away the Matrix and action film elements, you'd be left with a very brief highlight reel featuring the old friends and enemies of Godzilla.
Still more screen time than the monsters got in Destroy All Monsters.
Oh lord...

First off, Final Wars is a much longer movie than Destroy all Monsters and features more monsters. Secondly, the Tokyo attack and final Mt Fuji battle in DAM are easily better and LONGER effects sequences than anything in FW, regardless of monster screen time.

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

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Legion1979 wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:56 am
godjacob wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:12 am
eabaker wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:35 am

Well, at the very least, if you were to to take away the Matrix and action film elements, you'd be left with a very brief highlight reel featuring the old friends and enemies of Godzilla.
Still more screen time than the monsters got in Destroy All Monsters.
Oh lord...

First off, Final Wars is a much longer movie than Destroy all Monsters and features more monsters. Secondly, the Tokyo attack and final Mt Fuji battle in DAM are easily better and LONGER effects sequences than anything in FW, regardless of monster screen time.
With most monsters in those sequences not doing much of anything. Pretty sure half the monsters on Mt. Fuji just stood around during that sequence and I'm sorry but that isn't enough to wow me.

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

Post by eabaker »

godjacob wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 10:07 am
Legion1979 wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:56 am
godjacob wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:12 am

Still more screen time than the monsters got in Destroy All Monsters.
Oh lord...

First off, Final Wars is a much longer movie than Destroy all Monsters and features more monsters. Secondly, the Tokyo attack and final Mt Fuji battle in DAM are easily better and LONGER effects sequences than anything in FW, regardless of monster screen time.
With most monsters in those sequences not doing much of anything. Pretty sure half the monsters on Mt. Fuji just stood around during that sequence and I'm sorry but that isn't enough to wow me.
It's possible to criticize (or praise!) both DAM and GFW. It's not an either/or. This is meaningless whataboutism.
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godjacob
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

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eabaker wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 10:14 am
godjacob wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 10:07 am
Legion1979 wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:56 am

Oh lord...

First off, Final Wars is a much longer movie than Destroy all Monsters and features more monsters. Secondly, the Tokyo attack and final Mt Fuji battle in DAM are easily better and LONGER effects sequences than anything in FW, regardless of monster screen time.
With most monsters in those sequences not doing much of anything. Pretty sure half the monsters on Mt. Fuji just stood around during that sequence and I'm sorry but that isn't enough to wow me.
It's possible to criticize (or praise!) both DAM and GFW. It's not an either/or. This is meaningless whataboutism.
I only bring up DAM because it is often lauded as one of the best Showa flicks and I find GFW to be the stronger monster mash one. So the connection is intended least in my case.

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

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godjacob wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:01 am I only bring up DAM because it is often lauded as one of the best Showa flicks and I find GFW to be the stronger monster mash one. So the connection is intended least in my case.
I kind of agree with this. The last time I sat down to watch DAM, I was shocked at how boring it was.
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Terasawa
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

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godjacob wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:01 am I only bring up DAM because it is often lauded as one of the best Showa flicks
YMMV of course but this has not been the case in my experience as a Godzilla fan, and certainly not at Toho Kingdom (just count the positive and negative posts in the talkback thread). Ryfle and Galbraith wrote fondly of it, but those books were published 25 years ago. Hell, Ryfle and Godziszewski spent a few minutes in their audio commentary (ten years ago) arguing that DAM is a better film than its fan reputation would suggest.

But if there is a staunchly pro-DAM community out there, I need to know where to find it.
Last edited by Terasawa on Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

Post by Legion1979 »

Terasawa wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:46 am
godjacob wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:01 am I only bring up DAM because it is often lauded as one of the best Showa flicks
YMMV of course but this has not been the case in my experience as a Godzilla fan, and certainly not at Toho Kingdom (just count the positive and negative posts in the talkback thread). Ryfle and Galbraith wrote fondly of it, but those books were published 25 years ago. Hell, Ryfle and Godziszewski spent a few minutes in their audio commentary (ten years ago) arguing that DAM is a better film than its fan reputation would suggest.

But if there is a staunchly pro-DAM community out there, I need to know where to find it.
We're out there. Every time I post about this film on my FB all my friends chime I'm about their love for it. Bring up GFW though and everyone starts picking on it. There's a reason the film was known by the tag line "The Ultimate Monster Movie" when it started airing on the Sci Fi channel in 1996. I think its a generational thing.

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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

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That was Ryfle & Godziszewski's idea, but then I'm of the generation that was introduced to the film via Sci-Fi Channel / ADV (the export dub) and I've always thought I hold it in higher esteem than others my age & younger. I've been around Toho Kingdom off and on since the forums opened in 2003, and my impression over all that time was that DAM has never been even a top 10 Godzilla movie among TK's users. Even the Monster Zero forums were generally down on DAM. But again, that's my experience.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

Post by LegendZilla »

They tried too hard to make this movie appeal to everyone. Just one trend it was trying to capitalize on was how back in the late 90's/early 2000's, action heroes wearing black leather was on the rage.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

Post by Chrispy_G »

I think whenever you are dealing with the newest/last Godzilla movie, opinions are likely to get hype-polarized and sensitive. Fans don't know if or when there will be more Godzilla films, sometimes we KNOW we are in store for a hiatus. So the final movie not being quite what we wanted can leave us particularly salty.

I felt, for the 50th anniversary film, Final Wars always felt so "Birthday Party at Chuck E Cheese" as opposed to "Retirement tribute"...it didn't feel reverent poignant enough. It felt like yet another time where Godzilla got a lot of attention and put on a 'bigger' platform internationally(people in the US were talking and covering Godzilla's 50th and the Star on the Walk of Fame and etc) that the ball gets dropped.

A Godzilla 70s film gets a particularly huge and high profile marketing campaign and a big time premiere on network TV...and its goofy and cheap Godzilla vs Megalon.

A Godzilla film finally gets made by Hollywood, by the guys behind one of the biggest movies of all time, and gets promoted and cross promoted like hell....and its a hugely unfaithful portrayal of the character with G98

Godzilla has a big 50th anniversary film that is making headlines in more ways than these films typically ever do...and its a hype stylized and over the top Final Wars.

Godzilla makes a huge Hollywood return for its 60th anniversary...and G14 becomes most notorious for how LITTLE Godzilla actually appears in the film, they cut Takarada's cameo, and they don't use Godzilla's classic themes.

It feels like we often get "Cheated" out of getting the "perfect" Godzilla film at the "perfect" time and place.

BUT time heals all wounds. Whenever a Godzilla film merges into the pantheon of "Godzilla lore and history" it just becomes another unique chapter of the past. The pressure and attention of being the 'latest entry that defines the franchise' goes away, and it is just there to be enjoyed purely on its own merits as a unique entry in the series.

Final Wars just gets to be that wild 50th anniversary bonanza that is a blender of 50 years of Godzilla films and all of the trendy American blockbusters of the time.
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Re: Talkback: Godzilla Final Wars (2004)

Post by Omegamorph »

The Rise of Skywalker / Jurassic World Dominion / Predator 2018 of its time

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