Monster Discussion: American Godzilla '98/Zilla

[Legion1979]

^Exactly. This isn't difficult.

[KManX89]

LONG STORY SHORT FOR THOSE WHOSE LIKE SAYING "TL/DR":

The trademark was never changed to "Zilla" for the Godzilla that faced off against Matthew Brodrick and it's offspring that saved the world multiple times working with H.E.A.T. so they are both still "Godzilla"

Can we move on now?

*sigh*

What part of...

You were quoted as saying “that you renamed Hollywood’s 1998 version of the monster ‘Zilla’ because they took the God out of Godzilla.”

Do you not understand?

>monster from the '98 movie is still named "godzilla", never copyrighted as zilla

Not according to the trademarks I just posted.

[KManX89]

An exec from Toho who owns the rights to the character>a third party guy who worked with Sony on the 98 movie and uses bullshit theories as proof (like "it was re-released in Japan as GODZILLA, therfore, it must be so, hur hur" when they don't have the right to rename the film because Tri-Star still owns the rights to the actual movie).

Nice try, though.

As far as "what I don't understand", let's analyze this point-by-point...

The character is still copyrighted and trademarked by both Toho and Sony as ‘Godzilla’ and that’s not going to change since Sony paid for the Godzilla rights and owns the international film rights (outside Japan) forever.

>>Sony's rights to the monster expired back in 2003 and are now back with Toho, and the 1998 trademark was removed along with the Godzilla and Baby Godzilla icons used for the movie and animated series. Also, Shogo Tomiyama, a producer from Toho, already confirmed he changed its name, so you're 10 years too late.

Toho couldn't change the name if they wanted to

>>Even though they now OWN THE RIGHTS TO THE CHARACTER? Whatever you say, buddy.

and they don't want to since having a major Hollywood production based on their character was/is very important to the company.

>>Even though they poked fun at the creature in GMK, the producer was quoted as saying "you renamed the monster Zilla because it took the "God" out of Godzilla", and had Zilla get killed in 10 seconds by the real Godzilla, but oh yes, no hard feelings whatsoever.

For decades, Toho has created variations on their characters with unique names, origins, powers, etc. But this didn’t change the names/copyrights of previous versions… Mechagodzilla ’74 isn’t now named ‘Kiryu’, King Ghidorah didn’t become ‘Kaizer Ghidorah’, and the original Mothra wasn’t renamed ‘Rainbow/Aqua/Eternal/Leo/Armored/etc’. Zilla is a variation of the 1998 Godzilla – according to Toho, Zilla is a separate creature that resembles a monster that once attacked NYC – the same way that G’98 is a variation of the classic Godzilla.

>>Except separate icons exist for each of those different versions of said characters, and are all still registered as their respective characters. The icon and trademark for the 98 monster was thrown out, as was the Baby Godzilla icon from the movie and TV show.

I’m not talking about whether GODZILLA (1998) was a good movie or whether the monster was a good representation of Godzilla (I would vote ‘no’ on both), but stating how Toho officially views the movie and character.

>>Oh really? Clearly, you missed the part where Tomiyama said the creature "took the God out of Godzilla" then and poked fun at said creature in GMK, oh and had him get curb-stomped in 10 seconds in GFW.

For further proof, last month Toho released the 1998 movie on Blu-ray in Japan as GODZILLA (not ZILLA)

>>For the billionth time, they can't rename the movie because they don't own the rights to it, those rights are still with Tri-Star.

[Maverick Centigrade]

An exec from Toho who owns the rights to the character>a third party guy who worked with Sony on the 98 movie and uses bullshit theories as proof (like "it was re-released in Japan as GODZILLA, therfore, it must be so, hur hur" when they don't have the right to rename the film because Tri-Star still owns the rights to the actual movie).

Nice try, though.

They needs to make military grade armor out of whatever thick material your skull is made of.

[Starsteam]

KManX89, at least eight people here have called you out on this so far. Does that not strike anything in your mind? Or do you just think we're all a bunch of idiotic GINO-fanboys? You're ignoring a lot of key factors here while continuing to boast the same disproved 'evidence'. You haven't convinced anyone here yet. Why do you keep on with this?

[MDK]

I mean Jesus Christ, if the newest Japense release of the 1998 film copywrites the monster as "GODZILLA", how the f@ck is this even up for debate.

[KaijuFiend]

I find Zilla to be a kind of slick-sounding name that just seems to fit the monster, so I call it Zilla. But that's a personal preference of mine. I really don't care what other people call it and I understand that Godzilla is still the more correct name.

[KManX89]

^Except Tomiyama, who owns the rights to the monster, already confirmed the Zilla name change years ago, I'd take his word over a guy who worked with Sony on the 98 movie and says they can't rename a monster that they own the rights to (which is full of 10 different kinds of fail) any day of the week.

[g2vd]

^Except Tomiyama, who owns the rights to the monster, already confirmed the Zilla name change years ago, I'd take his word over a guy who worked with Sony on the 98 movie and says they can't rename a monster that they own the rights to (which is full of 10 different kinds of fail) any day of the week.

You know you could make a Facebook account and talk with Keith see what he thinks about you calling him a liar, and maybe he can convince you that he is right.

[Starsteam]

^Except Tomiyama, who owns the rights to the monster, already confirmed the Zilla name change years ago, I'd take his word over a guy who worked with Sony on the 98 movie and says they can't rename a monster that they own the rights to (which is full of 10 different kinds of fail) any day of the week.

You know you could make a Facebook account and talk with Keith see what he thinks about you calling him a liar, and maybe he can convince you that he is right.

Or he could just PM Keith here. Not sure what good it'll do though, there's nothing anyone can do to make this guy understand. He really doesn't want the iguana to be a Godzilla.

[Maverick Centigrade]

I guess some people experienced PTSD when seeing Godzilla 98. Their mind just couldn't take it.

[MDK]

^Except Tomiyama, who owns the rights to the monster, already confirmed the Zilla name change years ago, I'd take his word over a guy who worked with Sony on the 98 movie and says they can't rename a monster that they own the rights to (which is full of 10 different kinds of fail) any day of the week.

http://www.thedailymind.com/success/acc ... fessional/

[Gojira1963]

It has become kind of a moot point what we call the 1998 Godzilla. Sure, Toho called the same design Zilla for the Final Wars movie which treated him as if he was the 1998 Godzilla anyway. Plus, fans certainly act as if the creature in Final Wars was the 1998 Godzilla.

Even though Toho has not changed the official name of the 1998 design the majority of fandom has taken to calling this design "Zilla" to separate it from the Japanese Godzilla because the 1998 design is so different than the Japanese Godzilla.

I can understand that and for that reason I do call the 1998 design Zilla because I see it as a unique design and creature with a separate identity from the Japanese Godzilla.

[Legion1979]

Uhhhh huh

[ScouseGojira]

I still see the creature as Godzilla. Just a one-off take of the character and I can stomach that more now we've had a worldwide hit with the real 'Gojira' as it's star.

[Jiragozira14]

On the back of all the video releases of G'98, the following is printed (bold for emphasis):
"GODZILLA(r) and the GODZILLA character and design are marks of Toho Co.,Ltd. The GODZILLA character and design are copyrighted works of Toho Co.,Ltd. All are used with permission."
(Referenced from this 1998-dated DVD cover, so it's not a post-2004 addition)

TriStar never owned the rights to the Godzilla character, they were licensed to them by Toho for use. Thus, by technicality, Toho always owned Zilla; they just couldn't do much with the trademark since TriStar had it legally, and they agreed to the contract.

Once TriStar's rights were up, the rights of the character went...back to Toho, since they were the original copyright holders. They couldn't rename the things TriStar did with the copyright outside of Toho's legal grasp, but they could do what they pleased with the character. Toho had to give TriStar permission to use the Godzilla copyright, and thus, it seems they got the design as well.
The same design that the 2004 version shares with only minor tweaks.

So Tomiyama is technically correct in that the 1998 and 2004 designs are both Zilla....since TriStar never had power over the design's fate due to using Toho's trademarked character; thus, when the deal went belly-up, Toho got the rights of the character from TriStar. Zilla is the 1998 Godzilla, just as much as the 1998 Godzilla is Zilla; they're the same thing from the same owner, so they fall in the same trademark. That's why Toho cancelled the '98 trademark icons; they already had a Baby Godzilla icon, and they also already had a Godzilla icon; so when the '98 designs were taken up by Toho, the '98 Baby Godzilla logo was merged into the Toho-owned one, and the '98 Godzilla logo was first sunk into the normal Godzilla logo, and then rebranded as Zilla in Final Wars; no use of the pre-2002 logos for the TriStar creature have occured, meaning that those trademarks are either sunk into different copyrights ('98 babies) or rebranded ('98 adult).

So yeah, GINO is Zilla, Zilla is GINO. Same thing, different design. It's a similar case to, say, the 1973 Godzilla and 2001 Godzilla; both different designs using the same trademark.

Trying to be civil here; knowing my luck, I might raise some ires (which I would rather not do), and I would rather like not starting a flamewar. :p

[Starsteam]

^You're getting there, sort of. In a more understandable sense, GINO and 1973 Godzilla are the same. Same trademark, different designs. Zilla and GINO share the same design, but not trademarks.

Tristar bought the rights for the Godzilla character, created a new design, and once the rights went back to Toho they could do what they pleased with the design, so they used it again for Zilla when they created the character in 2004. But GINO didn't become Zilla.

[ScouseGojira]

The jist of it is this- Toho have the rights to the '98 Godzilla design due to the end of their deal with Tri-star,as such they could use the design for a different film and call it something else as they did in GFW. HOWEVER, this does not mean they can change what Tri-Star paid for and created in 1998. G'98 and G the series are both trademarked as Godzilla, they are called Godzilla in their respective universe and were legitimately created as Godzilla franchise installments with Toho's blessing. What Toho did with a design they now own 6 years later as fanboy service doesn't change that. The kaiju we see in the late 90's US Godzilla movie and TV series are Godzilla as much as G'14 is Godzilla and ShodaiGoji is Godzilla in Legal terms. That's copyright, that's legality. These things aren't dictated by what fans want or don't want. Spider-Man from 2002 had so many changes to the character and his villain the Green Goblin. In 2003, The Hulk was given a totally different origin and character traits in Ang Lee's film. That was the trend in Hollywood at the time, but the characters are still the same as their comic book counterparts, with adaptation for film that probably wasn't necessary for people to receive it well. Godzilla '98 was another victim of this.

[Janjira-York]

I clik this monster discussion to see what pepole think about G98, but dam that was a intense trademark discussion

[Starsteam]

Quick Question: Is Godzilla 98 Jr. counted for this thread or should I make a new thread for him?

The thread is about the American Godzilla '98 and Zilla, so I would assume the 1998 Animated Series Godzilla is included. It's not like we have separate threads for the different types of Destoroyah.