How Would You Rate The Heisei Godzilla Series?

For discussion of Toho produced and distributed films or shows released from 1980 up to 1998 (includes Gamera 3)

How Would You Rate The Heisei Godzilla Series?

10/10
2
6%
9/10
3
9%
8/10
12
36%
7/10
7
21%
6/10
5
15%
5/10
3
9%
4/10
0
No votes
3/10
0
No votes
2/10
0
No votes
1/10
1
3%
 
Total votes: 33

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Desghidorah
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Re: How Would You Rate The Heisei Godzilla Series?

Post by Desghidorah »

At the risk of sounding a bit of abrasive, I find a lot of people who are the harshest critics of the 1980s to 1990 series are often very hypocritical. Many times some of the exact same things they condemn this particular saga of doing, their own series they praise up and down are guilty of the exact same thing if not worse. Is this particular series nothing but flawed gems? No. But even the lesser outing still had some good perks to them and even though the series as a whole has some big downsides like much less dynamic monster fights and some weird leaps and logic, I find it more consistently good than most of the other Kaiju series. Even the worst outing of this particular run I would still label as decent, not at all bad.

One thing I think a lot of people who get really caught up on heavy themes and maturity fail to grasp is that entertainment in itself takes a lot more skill than they would think. There is a difference between brainless jangling keys in front of someone's face and making something that is genuinely enjoyable to watch. I really don't care if something does not have the art house level of thematic weight that something else does, if I like watching it I like watching it.
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Re: How Would You Rate The Heisei Godzilla Series?

Post by Major sssspielberg! »

I love 84-VS King Ghidorah, and VS Mechagodzilla. Mothra, and SpaceG I don't hate the way I used to, they've got their moments.
Destroyah is my least favorite Godzilla movie I think. Tales a good premise and fucks it up with the execution.
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Re: How Would You Rate The Heisei Godzilla Series?

Post by godjacob »

I personally enjoy the series and sometimes feel it gets a bit more flacked than deserve. The beam spamming got annoying, but there is shine to the fights even in spite of the style choice/limitations they had and it had some interesting human characters and Kaiju portrayals that I resonated with.
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Re: How Would You Rate The Heisei Godzilla Series?

Post by JAGzilla »

I give it a five. The first three movies are very good, but then the next four aren't. They have their good qualities, but overall feel bland and shoddy compared to their predecessors. GvSG in particular is a boring, frustrating slog that should have been two or three better movies.
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Re: How Would You Rate The Heisei Godzilla Series?

Post by godjacob »

JAGzilla wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:34 am I give it a five. The first three movies are very good, but then the next four aren't. They have their good qualities, but overall feel bland and shoddy compared to their predecessors. GvSG in particular is a boring, frustrating slog that should have been two or three better movies.
Okay is there some dark secret to Godzilla vs. Destoroyah I am missing here to make TK shit on it cause I feel it is up there with the early Heisei films (And better than say Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah).
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Re: How Would You Rate The Heisei Godzilla Series?

Post by JAGzilla »

godjacob wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:08 am
JAGzilla wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:34 am I give it a five. The first three movies are very good, but then the next four aren't. They have their good qualities, but overall feel bland and shoddy compared to their predecessors. GvSG in particular is a boring, frustrating slog that should have been two or three better movies.
Okay is there some dark secret to Godzilla vs. Destoroyah I am missing here to make TK poop on it cause I feel it is up there with the early Heisei films (And better than say Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah).
The human characters are cardboard exposition machines, and the effects are mostly typical post-91 laziness. The music and a few monster scenes are good, but they can't save the film alone.
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Re: How Would You Rate The Heisei Godzilla Series?

Post by goji89 »

JAGzilla wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 5:52 pm
godjacob wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:08 am
JAGzilla wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:34 am I give it a five. The first three movies are very good, but then the next four aren't. They have their good qualities, but overall feel bland and shoddy compared to their predecessors. GvSG in particular is a boring, frustrating slog that should have been two or three better movies.
Okay is there some dark secret to Godzilla vs. Destoroyah I am missing here to make TK poop on it cause I feel it is up there with the early Heisei films (And better than say Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah).
The human characters are cardboard exposition machines, and the effects are mostly typical post-91 laziness. The music and a few monster scenes are good, but they can't save the film alone.
Let us not forget the Bandai toys used :lol:

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Re: How Would You Rate The Heisei Godzilla Series?

Post by godjacob »

JAGzilla wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 5:52 pm
godjacob wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:08 am
JAGzilla wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:34 am I give it a five. The first three movies are very good, but then the next four aren't. They have their good qualities, but overall feel bland and shoddy compared to their predecessors. GvSG in particular is a boring, frustrating slog that should have been two or three better movies.
Okay is there some dark secret to Godzilla vs. Destoroyah I am missing here to make TK poop on it cause I feel it is up there with the early Heisei films (And better than say Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah).
The human characters are cardboard exposition machines, and the effects are mostly typical post-91 laziness. The music and a few monster scenes are good, but they can't save the film alone.
Really? That is the reason?

Miki if given something to do and is in a likeable role after the previous film made her incredible obnoxious. Emiko Yamane added a touch of heart lacking in many Godzilla side plots and found the Yamane family to be likeable enough in general.

Destoroyah is the best effect in these films since Biollante and the combat here is a far cry from the stilted beam spamming of the previous couple films, what with Destoroyah actually having melee options and there being distinct new elements added to his battles with Godzilla/Jr. Plus things like the freezing effect Godzilla goes through are pretty nice.
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Re: How Would You Rate The Heisei Godzilla Series?

Post by JAGzilla »

godjacob wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 6:37 pm Really? That is the reason?

Miki if given something to do and is in a likeable role after the previous film made her incredible obnoxious. Emiko Yamane added a touch of heart lacking in many Godzilla side plots and found the Yamane family to be likeable enough in general.

Destoroyah is the best effect in these films since Biollante and the combat here is a far cry from the stilted beam spamming of the previous couple films, what with Destoroyah actually having melee options and there being distinct new elements added to his battles with Godzilla/Jr. Plus things like the freezing effect Godzilla goes through are pretty nice.
I'll preface this with two points:

1) I have no wish to rain on anybody's parade. If you or anyone else are big fans of the Heisei series, congratulations. That's wonderful, and don't let me get in your way.

2) I love all Godzilla movies. GvSG, GINO, GFW, the Anime Trilogy, GvK, doesn't matter. I can put any of them on and have a good time watching them. I just don't love them all equally, is the thing.

And I should also say that I haven't seen GvD since 2013, so I'm in no shape to debate the fine points and am just going by what I remember of my impression last time. Now. Yes, I would say my reasons are adequate. The human characters came across as flat and boring to me, so they didn't carry their parts of the screentime effectively, which leaves the movie leaning heavily on its monster action. And if that didn't impress me, either, well... that doesn't leave the movie with a lot to stand on, does it? Characters that do stand out, people like the '54 leads, Mr. Tako, Kumayama and Torahata, Princess Salno, Dr. Shiragami, That Damn Saradian Agent, etc, keep me engaged when the monsters are off-screen, helping to elevate their movies overall.

You bring up specific scenes and points as a counter to my 'bad effects' claim, but I'm going to sidestep them and get to the big picture: I don't like Kawakita's effects in general. Some of the monster suits/props themselves look great, which helps a lot to salvage the first three films, but post-91 most of them miss the mark for me. Godzilla perhaps most of all. He looks like a bad caricature of the Bio/Ghidogoji masterpiece, and I struggle to take him seriously, which the very serious Heisei films demand. Beyond that, I don't like the beam-spam, I don't like the sparks, I don't like the stiff bump battles, and I just don't like the overall Kawakita aesthetic. The camera work, cinematography, lighting, and all that kind of thing are big factors, too. I lack both the film literacy and recent viewing experience to go into detail, but the first three films look and feel more polished, professional, and appealing to me than the last four. Maybe not GvKG as much (though it has its visually fantastic moments), but it has a colorful, standout story to hold it up.

And if you plan to point out flaws with the Showa or early Heisei films as counterpoints, no need. I am already aware, and the good parts simply outweigh the bad for me. Tsubaraya's effects, for example, weren't always solid gold, but I just personally prefer his aesthetic to Kawakita's. And yeah, I do let more things slide in the Showa era just because it was a long time ago. The tech and budget weren't always on the filmmakers' side, and the films do legitimately look good for the time. Heisei, meanwhile, was made at the same time as things like Jurassic Park, but you wouldn't know by looking at it.
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Re: How Would You Rate The Heisei Godzilla Series?

Post by godjacob »

JAGzilla wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:40 pm
godjacob wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 6:37 pm Really? That is the reason?

Miki if given something to do and is in a likeable role after the previous film made her incredible obnoxious. Emiko Yamane added a touch of heart lacking in many Godzilla side plots and found the Yamane family to be likeable enough in general.

Destoroyah is the best effect in these films since Biollante and the combat here is a far cry from the stilted beam spamming of the previous couple films, what with Destoroyah actually having melee options and there being distinct new elements added to his battles with Godzilla/Jr. Plus things like the freezing effect Godzilla goes through are pretty nice.
I'll preface this with two points:

1) I have no wish to rain on anybody's parade. If you or anyone else are big fans of the Heisei series, congratulations. That's wonderful, and don't let me get in your way.

2) I love all Godzilla movies. GvSG, GINO, GFW, the Anime Trilogy, GvK, doesn't matter. I can put any of them on and have a good time watching them. I just don't love them all equally, is the thing.

And I should also say that I haven't seen GvD since 2013, so I'm in no shape to debate the fine points and am just going by what I remember of my impression last time. Now. Yes, I would say my reasons are adequate. The human characters came across as flat and boring to me, so they didn't carry their parts of the screentime effectively, which leaves the movie leaning heavily on its monster action. And if that didn't impress me, either, well... that doesn't leave the movie with a lot to stand on, does it? Characters that do stand out, people like the '54 leads, Mr. Tako, Kumayama and Torahata, Princess Salno, Dr. Shiragami, That Damn Saradian Agent, etc, keep me engaged when the monsters are off-screen, helping to elevate their movies overall.

You bring up specific scenes and points as a counter to my 'bad effects' claim, but I'm going to sidestep them and get to the big picture: I don't like Kawakita's effects in general. Some of the monster suits/props themselves look great, which helps a lot to salvage the first three films, but post-91 most of them miss the mark for me. Godzilla perhaps most of all. He looks like a bad caricature of the Bio/Ghidogoji masterpiece, and I struggle to take him seriously, which the very serious Heisei films demand. Beyond that, I don't like the beam-spam, I don't like the sparks, I don't like the stiff bump battles, and I just don't like the overall Kawakita aesthetic. The camera work, cinematography, lighting, and all that kind of thing are big factors, too. I lack both the film literacy and recent viewing experience to go into detail, but the first three films look and feel more polished, professional, and appealing to me than the last four. Maybe not GvKG as much (though it has its visually fantastic moments), but it has a colorful, standout story to hold it up.

And if you plan to point out flaws with the Showa or early Heisei films as counterpoints, no need. I am already aware, and the good parts simply outweigh the bad for me. Tsubaraya's effects, for example, weren't always solid gold, but I just personally prefer his aesthetic to Kawakita's. And yeah, I do let more things slide in the Showa era just because it was a long time ago. The tech and budget weren't always on the filmmakers' side, and the films do legitimately look good for the time. Heisei, meanwhile, was made at the same time as things like Jurassic Park, but you wouldn't know by looking at it.
I'll only say two things in address to your points, cause it seems very much disagree of opinion on what you see as "memorable" vs. myself when it comes to human characters and as well as what we seek in effects. Or rather what we consider good effects for a Kaiju flick, which is fine you have your stance and I may not agree with it I will respect it.

I'll only say these two things:

1. I would argue 94 but especially 95 Goji are just as good and (In the case of 95 Goji) better designs than Bio/Ghidogoji. Beyond subjective preference for which is your fav I don't see any objective area they fall as clearly inferior to those suits in terms of design or function to make them "bad caricatures" at the minimum.

2. Comparing the Heisei Godzilla films (Before or after 91) to Jurassic Park is incredibly unfair. Jurassic Park was years ahead of everything at the time, those effects were groundbreaking and still hold strong today much less when it came out in 1993. Not to mention Jurassic Park had a ton more money put into it compared to any Heisei film and given you respect what the Showa creators could do with lesser money to contemporary projects I think it is only fair to extend that same sympathy to the Heisei era.
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Re: How Would You Rate The Heisei Godzilla Series?

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1) 89/91 and 94/95 are very different-looking to me. The added bulk and the orange eyes take away all of the elegance and regality I see in the first design. It just ends up as an angry, lumpy mountain, the monster without the king. And then the orange eyes also take away the believable, animalistic quality that Bio/Ghido's face had.

The loss of the 84-91 roar was crippling, too. The late Showa roar fits '70s Godzilla fine, but doesn't work at all for Heisei. That's not the suit's fault, but it's a piece of the puzzle regardless.

It should also be thrown out there that nostalgia certainly plays a part in my opinions here. I had GvB and GvKG on VHS as a kid and watched them all the time. So their Heisei Godzilla became definitive for me, and then when I first saw the later films in my mid-to-late teens, that version of Godzilla just looked wrong. I never did get fully used to him.

2) And you're quite right about Jurassic Park. But the post-91 films also look worse than their own predecessors and especially the Gamera Trilogy, so.
Last edited by JAGzilla on Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How Would You Rate The Heisei Godzilla Series?

Post by ROMG4 »

Once upon a time I would have rated the Heisei series low but in the years I've been away, my view has changed a lot on them. While the Heisei era has a number of issues post 89 and never raises to the heights it could have its an integral part of the series and introduced a lot of iconic elements. It just makes me wish they weren't so restricted, imagine an era of movies with the quality of 84 and Biollante

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Now despite what I have said I am going to rate the Era 1 out of 10 this isn't from me but from Legion

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