Colorized re-releases?

[fl00fmuffin]

With AI and deep learning assisted image colorization becoming much more feasible in recent years, it's likely to be easier to colorize older movies than it was when color re-releases were first in vogue in the late 70s (most notably Turner). This could make older films more accessible to younger viewers who otherwise wouldn't give them a chance. However, I can see this could be even more controversial than it was 40 years ago as even fewer people involved in the making of earlier films are still living. Ultimately, more of their original vision would be lost to time.

If color re-releases were announced for older Toho films, which would you want to see first (if any)? Which ones absolutely shouldn't be touched?

[LegendZilla]

Let's face it, we will probably NEVER be able to see a convincing colorization of any black and white film. At least not in our life time with current technology.

[Jetty_Jags]

I have absolutely no interest in watching most colorized films (outside of documentaries). While the concept of bringing color to pieces that didn't originally have it, or removing color from later works to make it "noir" is interesting on paper, I've come to find it more often then not shallow. Films are shot with the understanding of their media and its limitations, and while I'm far from a cinematography expert, I'm sure there are quite different choices made to accentuate features of either b&w or colored films, to establish mood, picture quality, or any other visual aesthetics of the film. Taking a b&w film and colorizing in my mind isn't making the film as if it was in color, but aping into something it wasn't really intended to be. As far as opening up toho films to be more accessible, all but two G-films are in color, and anyone choosing to avoid b&w films due to bias probably has no interest in watching the rest of the Toho's b&w catalogue regardless (I presume we are talking about their sci-fi features).

[eabaker]

Films are shot with the understanding of their media and its limitations, and while I'm far from a cinematography expert, I'm sure there are quite different choices made to accentuate features of either b&w or colored films, to establish mood, picture quality, or any other visual aesthetics of the film. Taking a b&w film and colorizing in my mind isn't making the film as if it was in color, but aping into something it wasn't really intended to be.

Yup, you're spot-on here. Lighting, production design/art direction, wardrobe and make-up all take color or black and white photography into account. Even if you can accurately determine what color things were on a black and white shoot (a dubious proposal at best), those colors were selected based on the intent to shoot in black and white, and were typically never intended to be seen in color.

And taking a color film and converting it to black and white either results in a lot of ugly grays, or requires a ton of contrast adjustment which has nothing to do with the original intent of the filmmakers.

[Legion1979]

The original Godzilla in color would be a travesty. Who would actually want that?

[Mac Daddy MM]

The original Godzilla in color would be a travesty. Who would actually want that?

Prolly the original creators who would have no doubt used color film for the movie if it was available.

I'm all for it if done decently like the colorizations of some of Harryhausen films.

[Great Hierophant]

We already got one colorization of Godzilla already, "Cozzilla", and 45 years of colorization technology advances since then can't improve on it!

[mikelcho]

Yeah, and look what happened when they colorized King Kong (1933) back in the day.

[canofhumdingers]

The original Godzilla in color would be a travesty. Who would actually want that?

Prolly the original creators who would have no doubt used color film for the movie if it was available.

I'm all for it if done decently like the colorizations of some of Harryhausen films.

While I’m sure they would’ve used color film had they been given the choice, the fact is they knew they were shooting on B&W stock and would’ve planned accordingly. Wanting to shoot in color and actually shooting in color are two different things.

Personally I wouldn’t take offense to a new colorized version, so long as it was handled in a similar fashion to those Harryhausen films you mention. I.E. “here’s a colorized version we worked really hard on to make it the best we were possibly capable of, but on this same disc is the option to watch the original black and white version in equally excellent quality.”

[fl00fmuffin]

We already got one colorization of Godzilla already, "Cozzilla", and 45 years of colorization technology advances since then can't improve on it!

They could have done better 40 years ago. Cozilla doesn't count, as the techniques, or lack thereof, aren't the same. Fairly convincing jobs have been done by hand, although this is a matter of taste. Inaccurate skin tones are one such complaint about early colorizations. Nowadays, there are short documentaries colorized entirely with deep learning models. The color choices made by AI are poor in my opinion and humans are still needed for interpolation (to avoid flashing colors), but they do a fairly good job at segmenting different objects, which has typically been a more labor intensive part of the colorization process.

The technology has certainly improved, and would require less human input than it did before. It's more a question of whether people would want it, given the unavoidable compromises in aesthetic value.

As for the original Godzilla, I don't think it would work. And certainly not with random WWII scenes. I am open to the idea more generally.

note: I may have misread your comment and apologies if you're a serious Cozilla fan

[Mac Daddy MM]

Personally I wouldn’t take offense to a new colorized version, so long as it was handled in a similar fashion to those Harryhausen films you mention. I.E. “here’s a colorized version we worked really hard on to make it the best we were possibly capable of, but on this same disc is the option to watch the original black and white version in equally excellent quality.”

I don't think they really "do" the bad, 1980s/1990s colorizations (like the aforementioned Kong '33) anymore. Even the colorized sets of Giant Gila Monster and Killer Shrews I have (that also has the B&W in great shape) look damn good all things considered.

[GodzillaFan1996]

The original Godzilla in color would be a travesty. Who would actually want that?

Prolly the original creators who would have no doubt used color film for the movie if it was available.

I'm all for it if done decently like the colorizations of some of Harryhausen films.

If I remember correctly Ray Harryausen helped with the colonization due to the fact that he originally wanted to make the three b/w films in color back in the day, but the money just wasn't there.

[LegendZilla]

^Fun fact : The creative team on G54 opted to film the movie in color, but chose against it not because they lacked the funds, but rather it hid the technological imperfections better.

[Mac Daddy MM]

^Fun fact : The creative team on G54 opted to film the movie in color, but chose against it not because they lacked the funds, but rather it hid the technological imperfections better.

IE: Why did we decide to make our monster star shit brown in color? Though, this is something I never heard of before.

[Legion1979]

^Fun fact : The creative team on G54 opted to film the movie in color, but chose against it not because they lacked the funds, but rather it hid the technological imperfections better.

....where did you hear that?

[mikelcho]

^Fun fact : The creative team on G54 opted to film the movie in color, but chose against it not because they lacked the funds, but rather it hid the technological imperfections better.

....where did you hear that?

I'd like to know that, too.

On a similar note, Video Movie Guide 1986 by Mick Martin and Marsha Porter (the first of many editions of this book before it finally ended (I don't remember when it ended, just that it did)) said this about Godzilla, King of the Monsters! (the U.S. version being the only one available on home video (i.e., VHS) at that time):

Originally released in 1954 and in color, scenes of Raymond Burr looking up, reacting, etc. were added for American release two years later but were accidentally shot in black and white. So the entire U.S. version had to be released this way, although actually it does add to the atmosphere and serves to make the film that much more nightmarish.

They also had this to say about this version:

First, and by far the best, film featuring the 400-foot tall monstrosity that was later reduced to a superhero. Here, he's all death and destruction, thanks to some expert photographic effects and weird music. Ignore all subsequent efforts, this is the real Godzilla.

[shadowgigan]

The original Godzilla in color would be a travesty. Who would actually want that?

Prolly the original creators who would have no doubt used color film for the movie if it was available.

I'm all for it if done decently like the colorizations of some of Harryhausen films.

Me? Admittedly, there is a chance it wouldn't be any good, but I'd be willing to give it a chance. I think the destruction scenes in particular could look pretty good.

[goji1986]

Originally released in 1954 and in color, scenes of Raymond Burr looking up, reacting, etc. were added for American release two years later but were accidentally shot in black and white. So the entire U.S. version had to be released this way, though actually it does add to the atmosphere and serves to make the film that much more nightmarish.

https://youtu.be/5hfYJsQAhl0

[mikelcho]

Originally released in 1954 and in color, scenes of Raymond Burr looking up, reacting, etc. were added for American release two years later but were accidentally shot in black and white. So the entire U.S. version had to be released this way, although actually it does add to the atmosphere and serves to make the film that much more nightmarish.

https://youtu.be/5hfYJsQAhl0

I don't know what that was all about, I don't want to know what that was all about; I'm only telling you guys and gals what was in the book when I read it. Don't blame me, blame the two authors who wrote it in the first place, and if you don't believe me, go out and find a copy of the exact same edition of the book and see for yourselves. It's all right there in black and white. And believe me when I say I have no idea where they got that information from at all. In short, please don't kill the messenger this time.

[Mac Daddy MM]

Wait. I may have just smoked up, but I swear I just read that your source is saying G'54 was released in color in Japan, but made B&W in America? Or the Japanese one was made black and white because the American scenes were accidently filmed in B&W?