Criterion streaming Godzilla films + Criterion Showa Box Set

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Malchik
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Re: Criterion streaming Godzilla films + Criterion Showa Box Set

Postby Malchik » Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:27 am

The more I see the quality of the picture and absurdity of the boxset (art and size) the more I wish this were a budget release like Mill Creek's Gamera and Ultraman Blu-rays. Good bang for your buck.

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Re: Criterion streaming Godzilla films + Criterion Showa Box Set

Postby KillCrites » Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:15 am

Malchik wrote:The more I see the quality of the picture and absurdity of the boxset (art and size) the more I wish this were a budget release like Mill Creek's Gamera and Ultraman Blu-rays. Good bang for your buck.

Can I ask what's wrong with the artwork? I will admit that Minilla is oddly proportioned on the Son of Godzilla cover and the Invasion of the Astro-Monster cover is the only one I would say is bad, but all the rest are fairly competent and stylish pieces of art. I particularly love the Godzilla vs Megalon one.
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Re: Criterion streaming Godzilla films + Criterion Showa Box Set

Postby Malchik » Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:29 am

Just not my style. I'd have liked original posters instead of modernized Cal-Art. I also hate the size of the set, I'd have preferred a book style case for easier storage.

A lot about this set feels un-Criterion. The picture quality, like I said, feels like something I would find on a Mill Creek release. Maybe Criterion commissioned lots of original artwork and over compensated on the packaging to justify such a high price for this set. I understand paying optimum when buying a Criterion disk because of the amazing restoration work they do.

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Re: Criterion streaming Godzilla films + Criterion Showa Box Set

Postby gvamp » Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:37 am

The thing is the PQ isn't Criterion's fault, its all on Toho. I'm sure if Criterion had full creative control of this set we'd get something more akin to the Criterion label in PQ and in terms of extras like the original US dubs along with international dubs when available.
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Re: Criterion streaming Godzilla films + Criterion Showa Box Set

Postby Malchik » Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:11 am

gvamp wrote:The thing is the PQ isn't Criterion's fault, its all on Toho.

Oh, I know - but that's what makes this set so un-Criterion. Instead of an awesome videophile editions of these film we're getting a substandard release with fancy packaging. See what I'm saying? It's like buying a Mobile Fidelity gold cd with the same shitty transfer of Sgt. Peppers made back in '87, the point is lost.
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Re: Criterion streaming Godzilla films + Criterion Showa Box Set

Postby realinvaderdesign » Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:50 pm

Malchik wrote:Just not my style. I'd have liked original posters instead of modernized Cal-Art.


Honestly thats the one thing that bugs me about the set is the art.

I wouldnt say its cal art style (lord help us if it was) but alot of it seems traced from xplus or sh monster arts.

That being said,54, gigan, kong, megalon , all monsters attack and mechagodzilla 1 are my favourites

The worst I think are mothra, astro monsters and DAM

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Re: Criterion streaming Godzilla films + Criterion Showa Box Set

Postby goji89 » Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:07 pm

Lecontinentperdu wrote:
Chrispy_G wrote:
GodzFire wrote:better than any releases that's been before it.


Outside of Kraken's release of Sea Monster, Hedorah, and Gigan....I'm pretty sure that for 12 of the 15 films, these WILL look better than any release before it, even if marginally.

Not trying to split hairs, but screen-grabs have shown that while using the same 2008 source as the Toho masters, Criterion's tweaks have enhanced and maximized what was there. That is SOMETHING.

There is no DVD or Blu Ray I can go buy that will have them looking better than they do here. You have the Criterion solo release of the original that is a match, and the Kraken Blu Rays that DO look better visually even if the framing is cropped and they have the US title cards.

Yes, it could and should have been a much more dramatic upgrade that crushed all previous incarnations by a wide margin. For 11 of the 15 films presented here, the alternatives are expensive/out of print DVDs that look worse.


That's what makes it a great move from Criterion. Definitely gonna buy this. Never went into crappy US dubs on overpriced DVD's with lousy image, wrong titles, savage cuts... I want the real deal, and that's what Criterion has to offer.

But, yes, It would have been great if ALL the movies were in never-seen-before restauration, and if the US cuts were put somewhere (even on DVD) as a bonus I could watch while being stoned, but even without all that, that's GREAT!

To be nitpicky, my real disappointment is that it's a Godzilla-only box, not a Toho Toku-kaiju box.
Radon, Mothra, Mysterians and co would have been REALLY welcomed here.


Hell yeah man, Im gonna buy this awesome set. Can't wait for the best set ever......Thank You Criterion. If they had included Rodan and Mothra and others then it would have been even better.

Can't wait for this release.
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Re: Criterion streaming Godzilla films + Criterion Showa Box Set

Postby Godzamera » Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:32 pm

GODZILLA BOX

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Re: Criterion streaming Godzilla films + Criterion Showa Box Set

Postby Malchik » Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:39 pm

They paid more attention to the book than the disk compartments. I have a budget book of clipart cds with as much attention to their respective cardboard slip holders.

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Re: Criterion streaming Godzilla films + Criterion Showa Box Set

Postby G-MAN » Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:32 pm

Tamura wrote:Never going to happen. Why would Toho turn down something profitable like licensing agreements? All they care about is money, ultimately.


Exactly what I've been saying. No way is toho gonna risk losing money by putting these out themselves when they can just get money to liscense it out to a company for a few years.

Added in 3 minutes 53 seconds:
Terasawa wrote:Their efforts to improve the picture (which is apparently limited to playing with the contrast) are going to be undermined by putting three of the best —and longest— films in this collection are going to share the same disc.


Exactly I can't believe they called adjusting the contrast light restoration work when they could've adjusted the colors a bit too like red menace has even done with their restorations. It doesn't take much effort to do. Criterion just clearly showed little interest in doing much with these. And yeah no matter how well they might be able to look if they weren't cramming that many onto a disc they would looked much better

Added in 2 minutes 24 seconds:
Malchik wrote:They paid more attention to the book than the disk compartments. I have a budget book of clipart cds with as much attention to their respective cardboard slip holders.


My point exactly. It really seems like more effort and thought was put into that or the quality of the releases themselves in my opinion as I've mentioned before about compression. There is no reason this thing needed to house the discs and not just be a physical extra for people buying the set and just let the discs come in a more standard case. Kind of sad when millcreek has better boxart/case and ways of going about compression for their ultra sets so far
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Re: Criterion streaming Godzilla films + Criterion Showa Box Set

Postby Godzamera » Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:42 pm

It's 2019! This is pathetic. Toho really needs to pull themselves together.
GODZILLA BOX

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Re: Criterion streaming Godzilla films + Criterion Showa Box Set

Postby Chrispy_G » Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:42 am

Lecontinentperdu wrote:That's what makes it a great move from Criterion. Definitely gonna buy this. Never went into crappy US dubs on overpriced DVD's with lousy image, wrong titles, savage cuts... I want the real deal, and that's what Criterion has to offer.

But, yes, It would have been great if ALL the movies were in never-seen-before restauration, and if the US cuts were put somewhere (even on DVD) as a bonus I could watch while being stoned, but even without all that, that's GREAT!

To be nitpicky, my real disappointment is that it's a Godzilla-only box, not a Toho Toku-kaiju box.
Radon, Mothra, Mysterians and co would have been REALLY welcomed here.


Yep, including Rodan and Gargantuas, which Criterion has, would have been cool. I'm happy with this set because as of right now, this is the best we are able to get, as in the best that is being made available to us. I'm not going to stick with lower quality DVDs just because this set could and should have been a lot better.

I'll continue to hope and pray for something much more dramatic and of the "4K Restoration of every film" variety at some point in the future. If it doesn't happen in 2024 for the 70th, it likely never will.

But in terms of the versions....I've been all over the place. Ultimately for me, always skewing towards the "Original uncut and fully Japanese versions" is what I find more preferable over time.

I used to love having different versions of various films to compare and contrast. As I grow older, I like to just sit down and watch "the movie", I don't like to necessarily watch 2 versions, or decide which version I'm in the mood for. I like the idea that "the movie is the movie".

Out of the MANY alternate/extended/enhanced versions of movies that exist out there....there is an INCREDIBLY low number of them that are actually superior to their original versions. Often times you get something that might be a less bad version of a still bad movie, or simply a needlessly LONGER version of a good or great film....that now has ruined pacing, structure and rhythm. OR you get some kind of weirdly edited down version that doesn't feel right either.

I just am not the guy who rides on nostalgia for what I grew up on, and the whole 'US versions help kids become fans' thing is a moot point. I love Godzilla as an adult, and so was destined to become a fan eventually. I am not just a fan because I was a fan as a kid. I now dislike plenty of things I liked as a kid, and I now like plenty of things I disliked as a kid.

People do not need to become Godzilla fans as a kid to become Godzilla fans, and not all kids that are Godzilla fans grow up and stay Godzilla fans.

There are always exceptions. I think Godzilla 2000 is superior to the original, KOTM stands an a near equal alternate to the original. I PERSONALLY don't care about any of the rest of the unique US versions. Them not being included frankly just makes my life easier because I don't have to choose which version to watch. The original can be the definitive cut.

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Re: Criterion streaming Godzilla films + Criterion Showa Box Set

Postby Malchik » Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:24 am

Chrispy_G wrote:I just am not the guy who rides on nostalgia for what I grew up on, and the whole 'US versions help kids become fans' thing is a moot point. I love Godzilla as an adult, and so was destined to become a fan eventually.

You've missed the point entirely, of course. Some versions are valuable because they are culturally significant to us as well, nostalgia not included. Looking at the classic American edits you'll notice, for better or worse, the films were transformed into something uniquely Americana. Gigantis despite being laughable is a reflection of that odd fifties Sci-Fi era.

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Re: Criterion streaming Godzilla films + Criterion Showa Box Set

Postby Lecontinentperdu » Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:03 am

No, he did not miss the point. You are looking at it half as a scholar, half as a superfan. The ceniphilic crowd asking for physical media is going scarse. The occidental Godzilla fans are not the majority of them. So dont ask for a not-so-expensive set to be what it cannot realistically be... Its not designed for scholars (those can find access to variuos cuts elsewhere), its designed for fans who can find all the movies in one place in their original form (and thats huge !), thats all. Us dubs have been released a numerous time, havent they ? (never showed enough interest in them to make a huge hole in my wallet).
I agree on the not-top-notch restauration and the too much movies on one disk rant, tho.
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Re: Criterion streaming Godzilla films + Criterion Showa Box Set

Postby Tamura » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:43 am

Lecontinentperdu wrote:Us dubs have been released a numerous time, havent they ?


That's an awful cop-out. Those numerous releases have poor picture and sound quality and usually aren't even accurate presentations. Did everyone just collectively forget that we're never going to see the frontier missile scene from Godzilla vs. The Thing in decent quality? Every single US version could benefit from a new transfer. This wasn't Criterion's "great move." Criterion WANTED to include the US versions, and every one of them was denied by Toho. You can call it Toho's "great move" if you want.
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Re: Criterion streaming Godzilla films + Criterion Showa Box Set

Postby Terasawa » Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:22 am

Chrispy_G wrote:I just am not the guy who rides on nostalgia for what I grew up on, and the whole 'US versions help kids become fans' thing is a moot point. I love Godzilla as an adult, and so was destined to become a fan eventually. I am not just a fan because I was a fan as a kid. I now dislike plenty of things I liked as a kid, and I now like plenty of things I disliked as a kid.

People do not need to become Godzilla fans as a kid to become Godzilla fans, and not all kids that are Godzilla fans grow up and stay Godzilla fans.


While this may be true for you, it's undoubtedly not a universal truth. Godzilla movies have always captured the imagination of young children, both in Japan and America. There are a lot of fans who surely like the movies because they first encountered them as kids.

The lack of English versions of certain movies is a problem because it limits their exposure. Two of the best Godzilla movies, both fan favorites, now have no English soundtrack, and as such won't be shown alongside the other films unless parents buy this expensive collection. And the children's Godzilla movie, Godzilla's Revenge, is now mostly inaccessible to its intended audience. None of these will be anyone's first Godzilla movie anymore.
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Re: Criterion streaming Godzilla films + Criterion Showa Box Set

Postby Tamura » Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:32 am

Dubbing is and has always been a legitimate translation practice that can be done really well. I don't see it as merely a crutch for children. Sacrifices are made, sure, but subtitling isn't pure, either, but you aren't allowed to raise these points and be taken seriously because the US (where most of us live) is a country that has accepted subtitling as the translation method for foreign films at this time. 50-60 years ago ,though, the situation here was different... dubbing and subtitling were used interchangeably, subs being reserved for movies that couldn't possibly make any money in a general release. Dubbing allowed the Godzilla series to reach a general US audience at the time of release and become the massive success that it was... subtitling would have ghettoized the entire kaiju canon and probably prevented Toho from making any more of them. Toho doesn't care about this history anymore, though.
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Re: Criterion streaming Godzilla films + Criterion Showa Box Set

Postby UltramanGoji » Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:39 am

If dubbing wasn't anything more than a gimmick Toho wouldn't currently be offering options to different countries to make their own.
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Re: Criterion streaming Godzilla films + Criterion Showa Box Set

Postby Lecontinentperdu » Sat Oct 19, 2019 8:27 am

The "great move" I attributed to Criterion is to release all showa godzilla in one set (Criterion is known for more arthouse stuff, they kinda take a risk), it had nothing to do with international versions being there or not. Sure, it would have been better if they were, but thats OK for the price and the target (ie, fans but also arthouse nerds). I, being french, could also complain... How to show these movies to my 5 years old ? But I see the good stuff: she can see them when learning to read, so shell learn english in the process. And i dont have to endure those awful US dubs. For WAY TOO LONG it was the opposite: overpriced us dubs or nothing... I can hear your complain, but lets be realistic : Criterion aficionados like me prefer a smaller cost, even if it means no us dubs. And there are still two great exemples of accculturation, KOTM and KkvsG. I would have been angry if those were missing ! A complete guide, movie by movie, of all the occidental alterations could be GREAT. Id definitely buy stuff like that.

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Re: Criterion streaming Godzilla films + Criterion Showa Box Set

Postby canofhumdingers » Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:13 am

I’m sorry but the attitude of “I personally don’t care or don’t want it so it’s not important and shouldn’t matter to anyone” attitude is intensely myopic and really just plain selfish. I’m not saying you shouldn’t be happy with a product. In fact, I’m glad people are! But to say that this or that (very valid) point is moot just because it doesn’t apply personally and directly to YOU is beyond arrogantly naive.

Case in (counter) point: my kids are too young to make use of subtitles but they are huge Godzilla fans RIGHT NOW. Why should they be excluded from enjoying this cool new set, which contains Japanese-only versions of several of their absolute favorite Godzilla movies, and be forced to make due with older, inferior, out of print versions? They shouldn’t. But you seem to have the attitude that “hey, I got what *I* wanted, so forget anyone else.”


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