Criterion streaming Godzilla films + Criterion Showa Box Set

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Re: Criterion streaming Godzilla films + Criterion Showa Box Set

Postby Terasawa » Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:25 am

UltramanGoji wrote:I think it's just a case of "you can't press the subtitle button on your remote to get rid of them". I don't think they're hard-coded into the actual video.


I think so, too, but until it's confirmed I figured the other possibility should be left open, even if it's incredibly unlikely.
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Re: Criterion streaming Godzilla films + Criterion Showa Box Set

Postby omgitsgodzilla » Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:47 pm

Terasawa wrote:
UltramanGoji wrote:I think it's just a case of "you can't press the subtitle button on your remote to get rid of them". I don't think they're hard-coded into the actual video.


I think so, too, but until it's confirmed I figured the other possibility should be left open, even if it's incredibly unlikely.

As far as I'm concerned, it is confirmed. The term "burned-in" is only ever used to refer to the Japanese subtitles, and it's used that way repeatedly. I can only see one reference to the English subtitles, and it uses a different term in a clearly deliberate way: "burned-in Japanese and non-removable English subtitles." There's no reason for them to go out of their way not to say "burned-in Japanese and English subtitles" if that's the case.
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Re: Criterion streaming Godzilla films + Criterion Showa Box Set

Postby G-MAN » Sun Oct 13, 2019 1:15 pm

airforce111 wrote:
G-MAN wrote:
airforce111 wrote:
make mkv, it will be in a single mkv file and you can turn on or off subs


Not when they are hardcoded/burnt into the video. They were on the film print and not removable in anyway. Just like how the Biollante master was


yes but we are talking about the "non-removable" as in they are seperate subs but the function to turn them off is not there, not burnt in subs he was talking about. Criterion uses "burnt in" like how biollante's was and "non-removable" in 2 different matters in the collection


My mistake I thought you meant the Japanese subtitles for the English speaking scenes. Which apparently will still be out of sync on this set apparently as they are on the toho bluray

Added in 2 minutes 23 seconds:
Terasawa wrote:There are two sets of subtitles. The first is the vertical Japanese subtitles that are technically part of the video. The second is the English subtitle track that translates the Japanese dialogue into English. According to the DVDBeaver review, the latter isn't removable. It remains to be seen if they're "burned in" or simply fixed on.


It honestly wouldn't surprise me if they are burned in or hard coded into the video. As I could see Toho having that be another stipulation. But it's most likely non-removable while watching on the bluray itself just to discourage reverse importing. Kind of like RoG did in some instances if I remember correctly. Shame they gave the one with the worst transfer the best bitrate in the set.
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Re: Criterion streaming Godzilla films + Criterion Showa Box Set

Postby Chrispy_G » Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:40 pm

This is cool.

Becker stressed that publishing was not just about bringing products into the world but rather “about how you’re putting it into the world. What it looks like, what it feels like. Even just the finish on “Godzilla” feels a little bit like skin, it’s nice. It’s little details like that that you need to pay attention to – those are all part of publishing.”

https://variety.com/2019/film/festivals ... 203372640/

That's very awesome. It has nothing to do with the discs and the films themselves(I've seen them many times even if only on VHS/DVD).....but part of my excitement is for the packaging, for the book, for the essays. Seeing it on my shelf and holding it.

When the films look better than I've ever been able to see them is one thing....but the whole thing being wrapped up in a "Classy Presentation" is very cool to me. Imagery dedicated to this franchise, information and essays dedicated to the films. That's part of what I'm buying, the total package, not JUST the films(obviously the films are the biggest and most important aspect).

I've never been into the "digital download" trend a lot of audiences are into. I buy physical copies and never use the digital download code. To me, owning something physically is still very aesthetically pleasing....and getting the discs in cool, classy packaging that itself is honoring the material...that adds value beyond what is simply on the disc.
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Re: Criterion streaming Godzilla films + Criterion Showa Box Set

Postby GodzFire » Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:02 pm

Given the opportunity, every single time I would pay for a quality & top notch video/audio release that came in nothing more than a blank disc case that said the name of the movie in big black and white letters. I buy stuff for the actual things/purpose of what I bought them for. This was supposed to be a collection of movies with great video quality and better than any releases that's been before it. This set is not that, and that's why I'm not buying it.

It COULD have been, but because of the company who own the films and supposedly care about their product and it's presentation, it's not. There won't be a chance at anything better now for at minimum 5-10 years. For those who are fans and supported purchases over the decades hoping for something better when this unique opportunity of a series set became a reality, there is no other way to sum this up other than a large disappointment. Not only that, but one that could have been completely avoided.
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Re: Criterion streaming Godzilla films + Criterion Showa Box Set

Postby Terasawa » Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:17 pm

GodzFire wrote:There won't be a chance at anything better now for at minimum 5-10 years.


That’s extremely optimistic. Criterion isn’t going to do individual releases of these films and probably wouldn’t do a retread of this box either, even if they were to negotiate with Toho for better transfers. But even that is impractical because, right now, there are only two (complete) films with better/more modern transfers, and neither one has been released yet in Japan. And even if they were released, they’d retail at around $60 a piece.

This is the last “upgrade” these films will see on home video in the United States. Quote me.
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Re: Criterion streaming Godzilla films + Criterion Showa Box Set

Postby G-MAN » Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:48 pm

GodzFire wrote:Given the opportunity, every single time I would pay for a quality & top notch video/audio release that came in nothing more than a blank disc case that said the name of the movie in big black and white letters. I buy stuff for the actual things/purpose of what I bought them for. This was supposed to be a collection of movies with great video quality and better than any releases that's been before it. This set is not that, and that's why I'm not buying it.

It COULD have been, but because of the company who own the films and supposedly care about their product and it's presentation, it's not. There won't be a chance at anything better now for at minimum 5-10 years. For those who are fans and supported purchases over the decades hoping for something better when this unique opportunity of a series set became a reality, there is no other way to sum this up other than a large disappointment. Not only that, but one that could have been completely avoided.


Couldn't agree more. And yeah I don't know if we will see any improvements other than if they source newer/better transfers from toho or are actually include more worthwhile extras. It won't be coming from criterion it will only happen if it's done by another company awhile after criterion's rights run out or honestly some foreign release as they seem to be able to do a bit more when it comes to some things.

Just so stupid how toho has treated these films and has such a disrespect for the American versions even though some of those films of the 60's wouldn't have come out the way they did if they didn't receive more funding for the film(s) from Henry Saperstein. Just not a fan of this revisionist approach to the films and how they are presented as it's approaching Disney levels to an extent with how it has been getting worse each generation of home video format.

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Re: Criterion streaming Godzilla films + Criterion Showa Box Set

Postby omgitsgodzilla » Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:28 am

Terasawa wrote:
GodzFire wrote:There won't be a chance at anything better now for at minimum 5-10 years.


That’s extremely optimistic. Criterion isn’t going to do individual releases of these films and probably wouldn’t do a retread of this box either, even if they were to negotiate with Toho for better transfers. But even that is impractical because, right now, there are only two (complete) films with better/more modern transfers, and neither one has been released yet in Japan. And even if they were released, they’d retail at around $60 a piece.

This is the last “upgrade” these films will see on home video in the United States. Quote me.

I don't know that I'm that pessimistic about it. I think by the time Criterion's rights expire, Toho will have done their no-frills 4K transfers, with maybe a couple more ballyhooed restorations for Mothra vs. and Astro-Monster. The Champion broadcasts to me bode well for these -- I doubt they spent much on those scans, but they're a hell of an improvement; the quick and cheap options will most likely only get better from there.

Whenever that finally happens, someone will bring them over here; probably bootleggers first, but eventually someone will license these films -- if nothing else, I don't doubt boutique labels will still be at it, since their target market is exactly the kind of die-hards who are unlikely to give up physical media for streaming. The US versions are probably still skreeonked though.

Maybe I'm setting myself up for disappointment, but I think things will get at least a bit better. I'm just frustrated because there's no good reason they shouldn't be already.
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Re: Criterion streaming Godzilla films + Criterion Showa Box Set

Postby GodzillaBurgh » Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:49 am

Al we simply ask from Toho are awesome transfers. We're not sending any death threats, we buy the figures and soundtracks, we have a FREAKING convention dedicated to kaiju in Chicago featuring cast members, special effects artists & suit actors, screenings and even composers like Michiru Oshima. Oh, and by the way, we have the GODDAMN MonsterVerse. What will it take for Toho to realize that we have a lot to be thankful for to rightfully deserve 4K quality transfers for this set?
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Re: Criterion streaming Godzilla films + Criterion Showa Box Set

Postby gvamp » Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:54 pm

My guess is after the Criterion License expires Toho will just avoid the middle man and release these movies themselves stateside. They have been trying to get a foot hold in the US over the past year or so. So I could see them just doing the releases themselves. Maybe if they still have a good deal with WB/Legendary they could just be the distributer kinda like how video games work.
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Re: Criterion streaming Godzilla films + Criterion Showa Box Set

Postby goji1986 » Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:40 pm

gvamp wrote:My guess is after the Criterion License expires Toho will just avoid the middle man and release these movies themselves stateside. They have been trying to get a foot hold in the US over the past year or so. So I could see them just doing the releases themselves. Maybe if they still have a good deal with WB/Legendary they could just be the distributer kinda like how video games work.


If this is anything to go by, it’s quite possible that this is one step closer to reality....

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Re: Criterion streaming Godzilla films + Criterion Showa Box Set

Postby Tamura » Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:02 pm

Never going to happen. Why would Toho turn down something profitable like licensing agreements? All they care about is money, ultimately.
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Re: Criterion streaming Godzilla films + Criterion Showa Box Set

Postby Godzamera » Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:34 pm

Honestly, I wouldn't mind too much if the Criterion went OOP, if it meant we'd get better transfers.
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Re: Criterion streaming Godzilla films + Criterion Showa Box Set

Postby Terasawa » Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:45 pm

omgitsgodzilla wrote:
Terasawa wrote:That’s extremely optimistic. Criterion isn’t going to do individual releases of these films and probably wouldn’t do a retread of this box either, even if they were to negotiate with Toho for better transfers. But even that is impractical because, right now, there are only two (complete) films with better/more modern transfers, and neither one has been released yet in Japan. And even if they were released, they’d retail at around $60 a piece.

This is the last “upgrade” these films will see on home video in the United States. Quote me.

I don't know that I'm that pessimistic about it. I think by the time Criterion's rights expire, Toho will have done their no-frills 4K transfers, with maybe a couple more ballyhooed restorations for Mothra vs. and Astro-Monster. The Champion broadcasts to me bode well for these -- I doubt they spent much on those scans, but they're a hell of an improvement; the quick and cheap options will most likely only get better from there.

Whenever that finally happens, someone will bring them over here; probably bootleggers first, but eventually someone will license these films -- if nothing else, I don't doubt boutique labels will still be at it, since their target market is exactly the kind of die-hards who are unlikely to give up physical media for streaming. The US versions are probably still skreeonked though.

Maybe I'm setting myself up for disappointment, but I think things will get at least a bit better. I'm just frustrated because there's no good reason they shouldn't be already.


There will always be gray-market and bootlegging of the current stuff from Japan. I meant that this will be the final official release of these films on home video in North America.

The home video market is rapidly declining. By the time Criterion's rights are likely to lapse, and by the time another distributor is interested in re-issuing the films (which doesn't even necessarily mean an upgrade), home video will likely be on its last legs. And we're talking about 15 movies here. Perhaps some of the most popular films will be picked up and given a special edition but I doubt even that.
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Re: Criterion streaming Godzilla films + Criterion Showa Box Set

Postby miguelnuva » Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:54 pm

Terasawa wrote:
omgitsgodzilla wrote:
Terasawa wrote:That’s extremely optimistic. Criterion isn’t going to do individual releases of these films and probably wouldn’t do a retread of this box either, even if they were to negotiate with Toho for better transfers. But even that is impractical because, right now, there are only two (complete) films with better/more modern transfers, and neither one has been released yet in Japan. And even if they were released, they’d retail at around $60 a piece.

This is the last “upgrade” these films will see on home video in the United States. Quote me.

I don't know that I'm that pessimistic about it. I think by the time Criterion's rights expire, Toho will have done their no-frills 4K transfers, with maybe a couple more ballyhooed restorations for Mothra vs. and Astro-Monster. The Champion broadcasts to me bode well for these -- I doubt they spent much on those scans, but they're a hell of an improvement; the quick and cheap options will most likely only get better from there.

Whenever that finally happens, someone will bring them over here; probably bootleggers first, but eventually someone will license these films -- if nothing else, I don't doubt boutique labels will still be at it, since their target market is exactly the kind of die-hards who are unlikely to give up physical media for streaming. The US versions are probably still skreeonked though.

Maybe I'm setting myself up for disappointment, but I think things will get at least a bit better. I'm just frustrated because there's no good reason they shouldn't be already.


There will always be gray-market and bootlegging of the current stuff from Japan. I meant that this will be the final official release of these films on home video in North America.

The home video market is rapidly declining. By the time Criterion's rights are likely to lapse, and by the time another distributor is interested in re-issuing the films (which doesn't even necessarily mean an upgrade), home video will likely be on its last legs. And we're talking about 15 movies here. Perhaps some of the most popular films will be picked up and given a special edition but I doubt even that.


Home media isn't going out. There's lots of people that still want physical media.
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Re: Criterion streaming Godzilla films + Criterion Showa Box Set

Postby Terasawa » Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:59 pm

miguelnuva wrote:Home media isn't going out. There's lots of people that still want physical media.


Just one graphic, but...

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Re: Criterion streaming Godzilla films + Criterion Showa Box Set

Postby Chrispy_G » Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:43 pm

GodzFire wrote:better than any releases that's been before it.


Outside of Kraken's release of Sea Monster, Hedorah, and Gigan....I'm pretty sure that for 12 of the 15 films, these WILL look better than any release before it, even if marginally.

Not trying to split hairs, but screen-grabs have shown that while using the same 2008 source as the Toho masters, Criterion's tweaks have enhanced and maximized what was there. That is SOMETHING.

There is no DVD or Blu Ray I can go buy that will have them looking better than they do here. You have the Criterion solo release of the original that is a match, and the Kraken Blu Rays that DO look better visually even if the framing is cropped and they have the US title cards.

Yes, it could and should have been a much more dramatic upgrade that crushed all previous incarnations by a wide margin. For 11 of the 15 films presented here, the alternatives are expensive/out of print DVDs that look worse.
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Re: Criterion streaming Godzilla films + Criterion Showa Box Set

Postby UltramanGoji » Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:50 pm

Chrispy_G wrote:Criterion's tweaks have enhanced and maximized what was there.


Enhanced? Sure, maybe. Maximized? Absolutely not and there's proof in the Fan Art section in the forums as well as Toho's own 4K restorations for why that is.
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Re: Criterion streaming Godzilla films + Criterion Showa Box Set

Postby Lecontinentperdu » Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:29 am

Chrispy_G wrote:
GodzFire wrote:better than any releases that's been before it.


Outside of Kraken's release of Sea Monster, Hedorah, and Gigan....I'm pretty sure that for 12 of the 15 films, these WILL look better than any release before it, even if marginally.

Not trying to split hairs, but screen-grabs have shown that while using the same 2008 source as the Toho masters, Criterion's tweaks have enhanced and maximized what was there. That is SOMETHING.

There is no DVD or Blu Ray I can go buy that will have them looking better than they do here. You have the Criterion solo release of the original that is a match, and the Kraken Blu Rays that DO look better visually even if the framing is cropped and they have the US title cards.

Yes, it could and should have been a much more dramatic upgrade that crushed all previous incarnations by a wide margin. For 11 of the 15 films presented here, the alternatives are expensive/out of print DVDs that look worse.


That's what makes it a great move from Criterion. Definitely gonna buy this. Never went into crappy US dubs on overpriced DVD's with lousy image, wrong titles, savage cuts... I want the real deal, and that's what Criterion has to offer.

But, yes, It would have been great if ALL the movies were in never-seen-before restauration, and if the US cuts were put somewhere (even on DVD) as a bonus I could watch while being stoned, but even without all that, that's GREAT!

To be nitpicky, my real disappointment is that it's a Godzilla-only box, not a Toho Toku-kaiju box.
Radon, Mothra, Mysterians and co would have been REALLY welcomed here.
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Re: Criterion streaming Godzilla films + Criterion Showa Box Set

Postby Terasawa » Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:17 am

Their efforts to improve the picture (which is apparently limited to playing with the contrast) are going to be undermined by putting three of the best —and longest— films in this collection are going to share the same disc.
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