Toho's Godzilla 4K Restoration Project

[goji1986]

The dupe negative pictured in that promo was used for the 2014 remaster, which was scanned at 4K, but the actual restoration work was done at 2K. This new version is a total true 4K redo; it's not been revealed if these are new scans of the first film, or just a revisit of the raw scans from 2014. At the time of the 2014 work, the fine-grain master positive that had been used for pretty every previous transfer was re-examined, and determined to have been printed from a dupe negative, not the camera negative as previously thought, so the decision was made to use the available dupe negative for the bulk of the work.

Does that include Criterion's restoration?

[Joseph Goodman]

Yeah, Criterion's transfer was done from the fine-grain in question.

[Chrispy_G]

I believe these dupe negatives would be two generations removed from the original negative, as opposed to the fine grain's three. When film is copied, the copy is basically a negative image of the element being copied, so to get a duplicate negative, you need an interpositive/master positive in between. The fine grain print used for the various pre-4K transfers would have been made from a dupe negative.

Okay, thanks for the clarity, so these would be a generation up. Very nice.

The dupe negative pictured in that promo was used for the 2014 remaster, which was scanned at 4K, but the actual restoration work was done at 2K. This new version is a total true 4K redo; it's not been revealed if these are new scans of the first film, or just a revisit of the raw scans from 2014. At the time of the 2014 work, the fine-grain master positive that had been used for pretty every previous transfer was re-examined, and determined to have been printed from a dupe negative, not the camera negative as previously thought, so the decision was made to use the available dupe negative for the bulk of the work.

Gotcha. Thanks for all of that info. So up to this point...
-Including the Criterion release, the Fine-Grain master had be used as the 'source' for the various releases Pre-2014
-That master was revealed to be sourced from a Dupe Negative, not the original negative.
-SO for the 2014 4K scan/2K restoration...they primarily used the Dupe Negative, since it would be a generation "up" from the Fine-Grain Master.

For the current Top-To-Bottom 4K restoration...they are either re-using the 4K scans done for the 2K restoration/master from 2014-ish for a new 4K master...or they are potentially doing brand new 4K scans for the new 4K master. It doesn't seem like that has been made clear.

Either way, this is the 2nd restoration/new master of the original film done in the past 6-7 years. Quite thorough...and I think the "lazy" option would have been to just upscale the 2K master they already did. If they went back and freshly re-scanned everything, that would be very thorough, although PERHAPS not super necessary. I guess it would depend on how state-of-the-art and top-of-the-line the equipment/4K scan was back in 2013-2014.

I wonder if the 8 films announced for 4K broadcast are actually all that they've completed up to this point, or if that's simply all they want to officially confirm at this point...perhaps others(many others?) are in different stages of completion/finalizing?

[canofhumdingers]

For the current Top-To-Bottom 4K restoration...they are either re-using the 4K scans done for the 2K restoration/master from 2014-ish for a new 4K master...or they are potentially doing brand new 4K scans for the new 4K master. It doesn't seem like that has been made clear.

If they are using a new or different film element (the dupe negative vs the fine grain print) then it would HAVE to be a different scan. The question to ask is, “how much of this ‘new’ 4K release is actually sourced from the dupe neg?” Anything sourced from it must be a new scan based on the info we have. Any material sourced from the fine grain positive print *could* be from a brand new scan or it could be recycled from a previous scan.

[Joseph Goodman]

Gotcha. Thanks for all of that info. So up to this point...
-Including the Criterion release, the Fine-Grain master had be used as the 'source' for the various releases Pre-2014
-That master was revealed to be sourced from a Dupe Negative, not the original negative.
-SO for the 2014 4K scan/2K restoration...they primarily used the Dupe Negative, since it would be a generation "up" from the Fine-Grain Master.

Correct.

For the current Top-To-Bottom 4K restoration...they are either re-using the 4K scans done for the 2K restoration/master from 2014-ish for a new 4K master...or they are potentially doing brand new 4K scans for the new 4K master. It doesn't seem like that has been made clear.

Correct.

E I guess it would depend on how state-of-the-art and top-of-the-line the equipment/4K scan was back in 2013-2014

The scans in 2014 were done on an Arriscan, which is still pretty top-of-the-line (Tokyo Laboratory has three of them).

If they are using a new or different film element (the dupe negative vs the fine grain print) then it would HAVE to be a different scan. The question to ask is, “how much of this ‘new’ 4K release is actually sourced from the dupe neg?” Anything sourced from it must be a new scan based on the info we have. Any material sourced from the fine grain positive print *could* be from a brand new scan or it could be recycled from a previous scan.

As I said, it's not been revealed if this (the first film) is a new scan or not, only that it's a new full-4K restoration (via Toshifumi Shimizu of Tokyo Laboratory's twitter). In the 2014 restoration, the other existing pre-print elements, which were the afore-mentioned fine grain, and another dupe negative that was "sealed" (the articles I've found on that restoration are vague as to why it was "sealed") were used to fill in missing frames or too damaged areas of the dupe negative that made up the bulk of the restoration.

[UltramanGoji]

I know the topic title is a little misleading but like Chrispy said, this is the topic for Toho's televised 4K restorations.

Should probably continue all your G14 4K in the appropriate thread here.

[Joseph Goodman]

Thanks UltramanGoji.

Youtube promo for the upcoming broadcast:



Nothing new, but slightly better quality than the twitter versions.

[omgitsgodzilla]

The grading looks much better than the 2014 restoration. Obviously can't say just from a YouTube video if it's overall superior to the Criterion restoration, higher resolution notwithstanding, but it's certainly an improvement over Toho's past transfers.

[goji1986]

Looks like Mothra’s also getting a 4K restoration in honor of the film’s 60th anniversary!

https://twitter.com/godzilla_jp/status/ ... 99649?s=21

[Chrispy_G]

Looks like Mothra’s also getting a 4K restoration in honor of the film’s 60th anniversary!

https://twitter.com/godzilla_jp/status/ ... 99649?s=21

That's awesome! Rodan is...65 this year...maybe it can get one too!

[G-Matt]

Great news! Hopefully it will knock Sony's transfer out of the park. Not that it's bad, but it's not perfect.

[Joseph Goodman]

There's little doubt that this could improve on Sony's work at this point; Sony's Mothra restoration is an old-fashioned photochemical restoration (i.e. it's at least two generations from the negative) with a 2K master done almost 15 years ago now. Hopefully this new restoration uses the four-track magnetic sound, as well.

Neat, they're also showing new 4K remasters of "Hidden Fortress" and the first Zatoichi!

[Joseph Goodman]

An interview has been posted discussing some of the work going in to these new restorations:

https://www.phileweb.com/interview/arti ... 6/816.html

Some highlights:

-The new restoration of the first film is indeed based on the same 4K scans done in 2014, but re-restored in full 4K this time

-Toho discarded their nitrate materials, which the first film was shot on, in the 1970's. The main dupe negative used dates to 1975, the "sealed" (due to bad scratches) dupe negative 1973, and the master positive used for most prior transfers 1983

-part of the reason Hedorah was chosen for this series was because it's the film's 50th anniversary

-restoration work is being done one by one, in broadcast order, with work being completed on Mothra vs Godzilla at the time of the interview

-Mothra vs Godzilla and Invasion of the Astro-monster are using the shortened camera negatives and full-length interpositives

-The original trailers for the films being broadcast have been remastered in 4K; even the trailers that had been altered for the Champion Festival are being returned to their original state (Google Translate is kinda mangling how they did this, I think they patched the existing trailer negatives with the correct titles, Toho logo, and "coming soon!" tags from copies of the original trailers)

[Chrispy_G]

That's fascinating.

Interesting to here about the 'one by one in broadcast order' aspect of the restorations. I am assuming it has BEGUN on all of the films, and they are being finished in sequence?

When do these broadcasts begin and when is Mothra vs Godzilla set to air?

Perhaps the process of the "restoration" isn't quite as extensive and lengthy as we might have thought? Maybe they simply have their team, schedule and production pipeline very streamlined and efficient? Maybe everything has been scanned, and the actual restoration work is all that remains?

Regardless, I supposed the more effectively this work can be done(without sacrificing quality) the better that bodes for the potential of EVERY film getting this treatment.

[goji1986]

Interesting to here about the 'one by one in broadcast order' aspect of the restorations. I am assuming it has BEGUN on all of the films, and they are being finished in sequence?

Yes. They have likely located and scanned all the necessary materials and have probably assembled the films. The big job is the cleanup and color correction, which is likely what they’re saving for last.

When do these broadcasts begin and when is Mothra vs Godzilla set to air?

G54 just aired, and if you follow the one month in chronological order logic, MvG will air in May.

[Joseph Goodman]

When do these broadcasts begin and when is Mothra vs Godzilla set to air?

The list of what film airs in which month is here; only this month (G'54) and next month's (KKvsG) have actual air times so far.

[GodzillaBurgh]

Oh my God, Toho is actually getting their ish together and ACTUALLY doing proper restoration work on these films? I need a download of MOTHRA VS. GODZILLA's broadcast somehow just to make a comparison with Criterion's transfer.

[bl4ck]

Someone have any screens from godzilla 1954 4K from recorded video?

[omgitsgodzilla]

I haven't seen any besides the promo posted earlier. I know it's aired, so hopefully we'll start seeing recordings circulating soon.

[GodzillaBurgh]

When did Toho starting to realize "You know what, those Hi-Vision transfers are not that pretty to look at. Let's roll up our sleeves, get real dirty and actually give the Big G a proper 4K look." Is Toho taking... A C C O U N T A B I L I T Y ! ? !

This has got to be the result of Toho seeing the feedback of mixed reviews of Criterion's set, cuz' I can't think of any other reason other than the very little info on their 4K job on KING KONG VS. GODZILLA. My biggest question of all: Are these getting released in some limited edition Blu-ray set exclusive in Japan, or just for a particular limited time event? Otherwise, Showa Video better hear this and jump on this s**t.