TVC R2: Logan268 vs CamtheGodzillafan

[Logan268]

If this was Godzilla from 62 to 66 I would agree but this is Showa in his prime we're talking about. Fragile is one way of describing how the tide turns from the get go if one or two or even all the lackeys gun for Godzilla. There's a slim chance that does turn out to be how the match starts and if that happens, that just means my lackeys have to bail the Big G out and deal with whoever isn't taken out by the ray. Now in relation to the possibility of Cam's leader and head of the table squaring off with Godzilla from the start. I see X putting up a fight but still going down for one simple reason not because of the lackeys who will be distracted with fighting well my lackeys. If the leaders square up and fight up close at the start, Monster X is going to get man handled by Showa and then killed thanks to not really having much of an offense. Gravity beams and firepower can pose a problem, but I just see Godzilla getting up over and over again.

[CamtheGodzillafan]

Logan you stated yourself that your lackeys are going to lose, THEN that's when my lackeys all go for Godzilla, and he does not do well against multiple opponents, 4 opponents is just overkill. And Monster X does have a offensive, he was able to deliver a few hits to Godzilla, not to mention put him in a full nelson. And all of my team has a range attack that they can use to hit Godzilla, while he will struggle to fight anyone due to all the hits he will be taking (Missiles, Gravity Beams, more missiles, OF's Chest beam, Eleking's eye attack). Also, maybe post a video of Eleking not getting destroyed so we can actually see his feats (Gomora vs Eleking)? And last of all, I downplayed Godzilla's melee (Which I didn't)? You downplayed Monster X's melee AND durability, the skeleton took an atomic breath right to the face and was barely affected.

[Logan268]

Thank you for bringing that last bit back up. Also Godzilla 2004 got out of the full nelson by smartly turning around for the chainsaw of Gigan to slice across his back. This fight could really go either way since neither of our teams are truly perfect. Also you're ignoring the fact that Monster X doesn't use his gravity beams too often like only 5 times before turning into Keizer Ghidorah. THAT is where you would win is what I would say if Monster X even could turn into that superior form but he can't. Overall, Mechagodzilla (RPO) is at least decent at fighting but like Jag said, he, Eleking and Obsidian Fury are fragile to the Atomic Breath and Obsidian Fury is actually the biggest threat lackey wise what with the plasma chainsaws he only used at the last minute only to backfire miserably plus that plasma cannon only used once. And another thing, Obsidian Fury has an ability that interfered with signal jammers so, Jet Jaguar is getting tampered with thanks to that screwing me over even more in terms of the lackey war. And now showcase videos of Eleking and Godzilla in action.

[CamtheGodzillafan]

Well, you are right with you getting screwed over in terms of lackeys, but Godzilla can only use his atomic breath on one kaiju at a time before getting attacked by the others. Overall, Godzilla only goes down because Monster X has all my other lackeys to help him gang up on Godzilla. This is a close fight, but I think I can pull off a win here.

[Logan268]

Proper breakdown/analysis of all the possible battles from the moment the match starts

Scenario 1: Godzilla (Showa) vs Monster X, King Kong (Showa) vs Obsidian Fury, Gamera (Showa) vs Mechagodzilla (RPO), Jet Jaguar (SP) vs Eleking (Ultra Galaxy)

We've already discussed the battle of the leaders which could go either way honestly since it's 50/50.

Unfortunately while he is my favorite Kong incarnation, we don't know how King Kong would respond to ordinary missiles since he is never attacked by the military however given he is essentially on par with Godzilla this most likely means the ape wont be affected by conventional weaponry. Missiles just so happen to be a form of conventional weaponry so even coming out of a Jaeger like OF I don't think those will do any significant harm. Now everything else on the other hand can and will do a lot of damage to Kong, the cannon beam especially could easily knock the ape out and even burn through his chest or at the very least send him into the water. Obsidian Fury is well waterproof like all Jaegers and he actually outclasses King Kong in the CQC department since he actually punched and threw Gipsy Avenger around like a rag doll. Those glowing chainsaws on his arms will be enough to slice Kong apart when Obsidian Fury actually decides to put them to good use. That is where a flaw of this cool looking Jaeger comes to play in the form of him seemingly preferring a one on one battle which is proven in canon. After the intial battle in Sydney ended, Obsidian Fury actually started to move towards the offline Gipsy Avenger only to turn and see three more Jaegers approaching. Instead of staying and fighting all 3 Jaegers, Obsidian Fury instead decides to retreat back into the water to fight another day. That is bound to happen when he sees the rest of his team seemingly has it covered.

Gamera vs Mechagodzilla (RPO) is actually not as one sided since like Godzilla, Gamera is immune to all conventional weaponry which includes missiles. Missiles that MechaG actually has and sure, it might do some damage and make the turtle bleed but not enough to automatically give him the quick win. The Atomic breath he has is well blue meaning Gamera can't exactly eat it up and could most likely instead get fried that is if Gamera was actually dumb and stayed on the ground which he won't. A common move of this Gamera was to well fly even more so then his superior Heisei counterpart. Most likely what will happen is Gamera using his flame breath which may or may not even be affective on this MechaGodzilla who responds by doinge exactly how he started the fight with the Iron Giant. A punch to knock Gamera down if said punch even connects since Gamera could just withdraw his head into the shell to make the punch miss, followed by the breath to the back of Gamera aka the hard shell rather then the soft underbelly. The turtle simply gets out of the predicament by withdrawing his legs and tail and flying into the air to maybe get shot down by missiles. We don't know if this Mechagodzilla is waterproof however but even if it wasn't, the breath being fire just means it ends up just creating underwater smoke instead. Also Gamera has practically carried some of his adversaries in flight before which means he could just grab Mechagodzilla after the initial opening assault and drop him onto someone else. Now if they were to fight uninterrupted then yeah, I think unfortunately Mechagodzilla just burns Gamera alive with his blue atomic breath before going to help another member of the team even if I'm skeptical that Gamera could survive given the breath is flames in nature and we never see Gamera actually burned outside of Jiger's heat ray.

Jet Jaguar's apparently waterproof? That aside, Jet Jaguar without the Angurius Spear isn't exactly the best but It held off Godzilla Ultima and even after getting part of it's head blown off by Ultima's Atomic Breath (Powerful enough to turn a building into molten lava and could possibly one shot most kaiju), Jet Jaguar only got back up and has at least decent CQC. Against Eleking, a monster who made his first appearance by dragging Earthtron into a lake via the tail and I'm not sure who comes out on top if it was strictly CQC. If i'm wrong about Jet Jaguar being water proof then the machine short circuits and Eleking simply goes off to drag another member of my team into Hong Kong Bay.

Scenario 2: Godzilla (Showa) vs Obsidian Fury, King Kong (Showa) vs Mechagodzilla (RPO), Gamera (Showa) vs Eleking (Ultra Galaxy), Jet Jaguar (SP) vs Monster X

Godzilla vs Obsidian Fury is actually a interesting match up but barring those Chainsaws and maybe the laser cannon, OF is not gonna really be able to kill Godzilla to be blunt. Sure he has missiles and a spiked wrist that can easily cut Godzilla up to draw blood but Godzilla has the advantage in CQC and his Atomic breath has already mentioned to be potentially fragile towards anyone that isn't Monster X. The chainsaws can easily be grabbed a hold of and Godzilla might have the strength to simply push the arms back to practically slice off one of the arms and/or the head of OF even if Godzilla does end up bleeding as a result. He also ripped off Mechagodzilla's head with his bare hands which means he could do the same to Obsidian Fury's arm as well.

Kong vs Mechagodzilla in this case might be the worst possible match since both lack in CQC but the latter has blue atomic flames that will definently do more harm then good.

Gamera vs Eleking is another tough one since both are lacking in CQC and heck even durability at times. Gamera's fire breath is not gonna do much damage to Eleking but it's been stated that Gamera supposedly feeds on electricity but we never see him actually do it. However he can fly which could be useful to get out of the grasp of Eleking's tail but he'll most likely end up getting shocked to death while flying with Eleking high above the battlefield both making contact with either the ground, a building and/or some other kaiju.

Jet Jaguar is simply a distraction to hold off Monster X but is at least decent at combat without the Angurius Spear. The Gravity Beams will do damage however but not on Godzilla Ultima levels of damage since the Gravity Beam is an electric based attack as oppoed to a heat ray. It'll just make small explosions and parts of the armor a charred black color, He also has Agility on his side which is evenly matched with that of Monster X if not slightly ahead of him. And yet Monster X has the edge in CQC.

Scenario 3: Godzilla (Showa) vs Mechagodzilla (RPO), King Kong (Showa) vs Eleking (Ultra Galaxy), Gamera (Showa) vs Monster X, Jet Jaguar (SP) vs Obsidian Fury

I believe Mechagodzilla will be the first lackey that tries to help out Monster X or tries to fight Godzilla on his own. If he tries to go for a punch, Godzilla responds with multiple punches to the chest and/or head. If the Blue Atomic breath is fired from MechaG's mouth, it will only help Godzilla since he is after all a radioactive monster born from nuclear testing. The beam clash would be virtually nonexistent since Godzilla's vapor like and more combustible breath overpowers the blue flames of the worst live action Mechagodzilla IMO. The only way MechaGodzilla could really get offense in is if he was merely a distraction which if he goes after Godzilla on his own at the start then he's not gonna be around to distract the king later on.

Kong can't be charged up sure but I'm going with what is displayed in the movie since only Lightning bolts caused Kong to get charged up while ordinary electrical wires didn't since well King Kong didn't achieve his charged up state after feeding on ordinary electricity. Even if he wasn't charged up and zapping Godzilla, King Kong is still decent when it comes to fighting but he will probably get knocked out by a smack of Eleking's tail if anything else.

Obsidian Fury would be dispatched of quite handily if Jet Jaguar had the Angurius spear to slice through the Jaeger but the spear is not present here so Obsidian Fury easily outmatches the creation of the Otaki Factory without even needing to use the chainsaw arms.

Scenario 4: Godzilla (Showa) vs Eleking (Ultra Galaxy), King Kong (Showa) vs Monster X, Gamera (Showa) vs Obsidian Fury, Jet Jaguar (SP) vs Mechagodzilla (RPO)

Godzilla vs Eleking is kind of a no brainer, Godzilla lost the weakness to electricity as early as 1964. Eleking starting off by wrapping the king with the tail and dragging him beneath the waters in Hong Kong bay. His electricity based attacks won't do much and his hand to hand combat is less then stellar. Sure he can punch Godzilla to daze the king and even wrap his tail around and give off that discharge. If that happens regardless of just who faces off with who and when, Godzilla will just endure the electricity and reward Eleking with a blast of Atomic breath to the back followed by another shot as Eleking gets back up. This is most likely to happen too if Eleking comes out of the water to fight Godzilla and goes for the same strategy against Gomora and Tyrant.

King Kong acts like a damage sponge but the Gravity beams are going to rip him asunder and hand to hand combat appears in Monster X's favor. Not even a judo throw is gonna bail Kong out.....

Gamera is in a similar boat because he gets countered HARD by Obsidian Fury. Gamera tries to fly, he just gets shot down by either missiles or the plasma cannon which could do him in. There's also the chainsaws that OF can use but Gamera could initially withdraw into his shell to prevent any of his limbs or head from immediately getting chopped off.

No comment on Mechagodzilla vs Jet Jaguar.


The final battle is looking like this at least to me.

Godzilla (Showa) vs Monster X, Eleking, and/or Obsidian Fury (If he hasn't at this point already left the battlefield and instead helped Eleking take out Jet Jaguar if the latter's waterproof that is)

I believe Mechagodzilla will be the first lackey that tries to help out Monster X, firing his missiles to get Godzilla's attention but gets one shotted by a blast of Atomic breath for his troubles.

Monster X however capitalizes on the brief distraction by firing his Gravity Beams which could indeed HURT Godzilla since Showa King Ghidorah's gravity beams did the same but that only causes Godzilla to turn his attention back to the equally exhausted opposing leader to resume their clash. Until Eleking after finishing off whoever he's dealing with comes out of the water to play the distraction role. Unfortunately once Godzilla makes contact with electricity that unsurprisingly goes through his veins, he uses the regained power of Magnetism to practically draw Obsidian Fury towards him whether it is underwater or on land. Eleking's allies won't even try to attack Godzilla with the tail wrapped around him but Monster X could try the full nelson. Naturally Obsidian Fury will try to respond with his missiles which didn't exactly make contact with Gipsy Avenger at all in PR:U but if OF doesn't have his chainsaws then he's going to absolutely try to use them to slice Godzilla's head off but the king can again just grab onto the arms and if the chest cannon is fired while OF ends up facing forward at the last second then either Eleking or Monster X (Or Mechagodzilla who just gets one shotted by his own ally's energy attack by accident even if I think he won't last long when fighting Godzilla) end up getting blasted down by the attack. The chainsaws being armed also makes things complicated if Godzilla is charged up by Eleking's tail discharge or any of the latter's electric attacks to a lesser extent because of magnetism. If Obsidian Fury is facing forward with his back against Godzilla who's got a hold of the chainsaws then he can slice through the opposition even if Monster X does fire the gravity beams since not only Godzilla will be hit but Obsidian Fury also gets hit.

[CamtheGodzillafan]

Ok, going to address the fact that Nolan Sorrento (the pilot of RPO Mechagodzilla) is way to smart to pick a fight with your strongest guy, Logan. He will likely have knowledge on most of your team, due to studying the Oasis so much, which probably has info on Godzilla, Gamera, and KK. He will probably know the strengths and weaknesses of all of your team, and will likely go for Gamera due to his lack of physical power. And you also stated that Showa Godzilla vs Monster X is 50/50, which I do agree with, but if you add my lackeys, which will defeat yours, then the scale tips in the favor of me. Eleking will definitely be a decent distraction for Godzilla, and he will probably use his eye attack first, because from the looks of it, his tail is not his opening attack. Also it doesn't matter if JJ is waterproof, Eleking's shocks will probably short him out. And Monster X is incredibly stronger than SKG, Showa King Ghidorah was basically a three headed dragon that spammed lightning bolts that barely did anything (Not to mention having terrible aim). And Godzilla's arms are kind of short, so if Monster X gets him in the full nelson, then how will he break free, he could use his atomic breath, but not if more than one of my lackeys are unloading on him. Also JJ does not have many durability feats, the thunder-thighed Godzilla Ultima's atomic breath took half his head out as quick, if not, quicker, than some of the buildings he fired at. If JJ had the spear, I would give it to you, but since he doesn't he cant do anything but get destroyed, while he watches my team start to put a beatdown on Godzilla.

My team might be mostly glass cannons, but they have Cannon in there for a reason.

[Logan268]

And yet both of our teams have no prep time meaning Nolan is gonna have to actually study everyone on my team while the battle is going on and he tries to survive. The same applies to everyone else as well so I don't think anyone is doing that quickly especially giving that my entire team have displayed intelligence in their respective appearances in canon. Again, Leaning towards myself. Three fourths of a team being fragile glass cannons (That you yourself just pointed out) and half having decent firepower at best when compared to my leader's insane feats is a huge disadvantage.

[CamtheGodzillafan]

Ok I just rewatched Terror of Mechagodzilla, and what feats does Godzilla 75 really have, besides lifting up Titanosaurus. But Monster X lifted up Godzilla by his arms, not his body. And also a single Space Beam from MG2 was enough to knock Godzilla over, twice. And Godzilla was getting beat to a pulp by Titanosaurus and MG2, whats stopping Monster X, who is stronger than Showa Godzilla's final enemies, from ganging up on Godzilla? And also, Mechagodzilla didn't help Titanosaurus out much, just fired a few finger missiles and space beams, so if Godzilla were forced to fight my whole team, which is likely to happen, he just cant handle those numbers.

[Logan268]

if Godzilla were forced to fight my whole team, which is likely to happen

IF your team deals with my lackeys in a quick manner which could happen except that would depend on just who fights who at the start. Godzilla could just go after one of your lackeys to help out one of mine if he comes across a battle and isn't approached himself. He practically bails out any of my lackeys against anyone but Monster X if that's the case. Godzilla may not have the best track record 1v2 but 2v2 with a partner he's practically untouchable. Plus if your team gangs up on the biggest threat in Godzilla while ignoring my lackeys completely what then? The best your team can do is Obsidian Fury slicing off one of his arms (Which it won't since Godzilla beheaded MechaGodzilla and can just rip off the arms and use them against your team) or bury him by knocking skyscrapers or plowing him through a building to take him out of commision and then dealing with my lackeys afterwards depending on how much damage your team takes. That's literally the only way that you could possibly come out on top, take out the biggest threat in Godzilla first then deal with Kong, Gamera and Jet Jaguar afterwards. Not a guarantee it will be a 1v1 amongst our teams to start. It could be a 2v1, 3v1 or even a 4v1. Meaning MY team could possibly gang up on Monster X first and if say the rest of your team is in another part of Hong Kong away from my squad and Monster X, It's basically the role reversal of Monster X taking so much damage but still being able to beat my lackeys quite handily but if it's a 4v1 on Monster X then he's gonna be injured and battered due to my team coming at him from all directions. The same applies if my whole team decides to NOT split up and stick together, they could just travel around the city to deal with your lackeys first which again can beat any of my lackeys 1v1 or even 1v2 but all 4 of my kaiju at once against any member of your lackeys 4v1? That's flat out murder right there even if a lackey of mine does end up dying in that possible scenario.

[CamtheGodzillafan]

I doubt your whole team would all go in for one monster, but lets think about it if MY team did that, which makes more sense then your team doing that because my team is smarter then yours. Gamera dies in seconds, same with KK, and I only need Eleking to shock JJ a bit, then when Godzilla's up against my team, he will be getting hit by missiles, gravity beams, OF's Chest beam, even more missiles (which did some damage on Godzilla 75). The only real problem with your team is the lack of power, you have a good team captain (Not the best lackeys), just not an S tier Leader, granted I don't have one either, but mine is smart too, mine is durable as hell, and mine actually can fight in melee combat, arguably as well as Titanosaurus, who was doing pretty well against Godzilla, and Titano only needed Mechagodzlla help for about how many times, not that many, but even then all MG did was fire a few missiles or one space beam, which could knock Godzilla over. Monster X's gravity beams are somewhat stronger than MG's space beams, so Godzilla's going to get knocked over quite a few times, and that could give OF the opportunity to land some nasty hits on Godzilla. Overall, my teams arsenal will be the saving grace that I need after Hillyhulk demolished my team.

[Logan268]

My lackeys might lose their battles but even if it does come down to be a 3 on 1, Godzilla (Showa) wins the war. I vote for Myself

[CamtheGodzillafan]

Well, Voyager has said that voting has started, now we finish this argument, Logan. I would first off like to say my teams advantages and disadvantages. Monster X doesn't have a huge disadvantage here, his durability is pretty good, considering he took an atomic breath from FW Goji (Who's breath seems to be stronger than Showa Goji's) and was still standing. Now Let's look at power, Monster X's Gravity beams are pretty strong, and if Showa Mechagodzilla 2's Space Beam was enough to knock Godzilla over, than the Gravity Beams can do just the same. Monster X also was able to lift FW Goji by the arms, not his body, but his small arms. Also, Monster X can levitate, making him hard to fight in CQC. Now lets take a look at my lackeys, OF and Eleking are the big threats here, RPO is just another lackey. If OF is fighting and knows he is losing, he WILL pull out the plasma chainsaws, and he can also use the beam too. Eleking can easily beat JJ, all it takes is the tail to short circuit JJ out, but if Eleking isn't going up against JJ, then I don't know if we are counting Gamera being able to absorb lightning, because it was never seen, but even so, Eleking's eye attack can do some damage to Gamera, and Kong probably wont be able to fight Eleking's tail due to the constant shock. RPO Mechagodzilla can take on any of Logan's fighters, note I didn't say BEAT any of his, but there is a likely chance of it. RPO's main challenge will be JJ, but if RPO uses his missiles or flamethrower, then he can get some damage in before JJ can attack, RPO also is a better melee fighter than Gamera, but lets be honest, Showa Gamera is NOT a melee fighter. KK can't be charged up here, which means he wont really be of much use, so he's not a threat to me. And now we have what Logan believes to be more powerful than he really is, Showa Godzilla. Now, you say 75 Godzilla had such good melee (which isn't entirely wrong), but If Titanosaurus was able to beat the hell out of Godzilla, with very little help from Mechagodzilla, then how is Monster X gonna struggle, especially if he has help, because if a few missiles did some damage to Godzilla, imagine how brutal it will be for Godzilla when OF and RPO start to spam those missiles, not to mention Eleking's eye attack and Monster X's Gravity beams. I just can't see a scenario where all of your lackeys team up, because I'm pretty sure as dumb as Showa Gamera is, he will make the first move and cause chaos, stirring up everyone and not really giving your team a chance to work together. Now Monster X is used to working with others (Gigan), and he could probably get one of my teammates to help kick the living crap out of Godzilla. Overall, my teams firepower and Monster X's durability will get me this win. Voting for 𝐂𝐚𝐦.

[JAGzilla]

This is a good one. Very closely matched. Godzilla is the strongest individual fighter here, but Cam's lackeys are slightly more likely to win. I would say Godzilla has a good chance of being double or triple teamed here, and he's not that good. Cam narrowly edges this one out.

[Nagoda]

I’ll cast my vote for Cam as the superior lackey force would allow for his team to help out their leader far quicker, or the opposite where the leader finishes off his opponent to then help out against whoever is fighting Godzilla.

[HillyHulk]

Gamera does have an endurance I feel gets overlooked a lot in fantasy matches that should help him last in this fight. Against opponents that outclass him in battle heavily like with Obsidian and Monster X especially it simply won't be enough in this situation. While Eleking can hurt Gamera and Jet Jaguar if he catches the latter, Godzilla has outgrown his electricity weakness. While it doesn't mean it's harmless, Godzilla will be fine and paired that with Kong who'll use the Eleking's electricity against him by getting stronger from them his main form of attack is iffy in its effectiveness. This Mechagodzilla is simply not tough enough to be a threat thanks to his weak durability.

Godzilla Showa versus Monster X is going to be rather evenly matched with their CQC with Monster X having an edge in pure strength. He could lose to Monster X if it weren't for the numbers likely to come. Jet Jaguar isn't as capable as he normally is without the spear, but he is still rather capable and with Kong and maybe Gamera Fury is going down. With that settled, Monster X will be the next to go with the numbers stacked against him. I think Logan268 is going to win... & vs.

[Greyshot151]

I've gone back and forth, but my final thoughts give this to Cam.

Monster X and Godzilla Showa really is an unstoppable force meets an immovable object. The two will wail on the other and others for an extended period of time, meaning the the team with the better lackeys has the edge. Cam's might not have durability, but solid firepower ensures that logan's team can't come out on top more often than not.

[CamtheGodzillafan]

Gamera does have an endurance I feel gets overlooked a lot in fantasy matches that should help him last in this fight. Against opponents that outclass him in battle heavily like with Obsidian and Monster X especially it simply won't be enough in this situation. While Eleking can hurt Gamera and Jet Jaguar if he catches the latter, Godzilla has outgrown his electricity weakness. While it doesn't mean it's harmless, Godzilla will be fine and paired that with Kong who'll use the Eleking's electricity against him by getting stronger from them his main form of attack is iffy in its effectiveness. This Mechagodzilla is simply not tough enough to be a threat thanks to his weak durability.

Godzilla Showa versus Monster X is going to be rather evenly matched with their CQC with Monster X having an edge in pure strength. He could lose to Monster X if it weren't for the numbers likely to come. Jet Jaguar isn't as capable as he normally is without the spear, but he is still rather capable and with Kong and maybe Gamera Fury is going down. With that settled, Monster X will be the next to go with the numbers stacked against him. I think Logan268 is going to win... & vs.

But Voyager stated that KK can't be charged up, so Eleking's tail will harm KK a lot more than help him.

[Logan268]

Gamera does have an endurance I feel gets overlooked a lot in fantasy matches that should help him last in this fight. Against opponents that outclass him in battle heavily like with Obsidian and Monster X especially it simply won't be enough in this situation. While Eleking can hurt Gamera and Jet Jaguar if he catches the latter, Godzilla has outgrown his electricity weakness. While it doesn't mean it's harmless, Godzilla will be fine and paired that with Kong who'll use the Eleking's electricity against him by getting stronger from them his main form of attack is iffy in its effectiveness. This Mechagodzilla is simply not tough enough to be a threat thanks to his weak durability

Kong can't be charged my guy. Besides normal electricity didn't charge him (He merely fed off it so none of Eleking's attacks won't charge him up but rather make him not be shocked to death), the lightning is what charged Kong up. Doesn't mean you aren't wrong with the rest of your analysis.

[HillyHulk]

Sorry everyone, I must have misinterpreted what I saw in the movie. Also just re-read the post starting the match... probably should have seen that sooner.