King of the Monsters 2020 - Hedorah (Showa) vs. Kiryu (Heavy Arms) + Mothra (SOS) + 2 Larvae

[Mac Daddy MM]

Hedorah (Showa) vs. Kiryu (Heavy Arms + Mothra (SOS) + 2 Larvae

Arena: Lake Ashino (Godzilla vs. Biollante)
Rules: Standard Heisei size scaling. Please use resources available (TK, Ultra Wikia, Youtube, etc) for information on monsters not familiar with before posting results.

POST YOUR VOTE IN BOLD

[Demon Lord Gira]

... you know, color me crazy, but I think Team SOS has a chance here. Yes, Hedorah is the most dangerous Showa kaiju around, but Team SOS has the means and the firepower to put him down for good... if they can get him out of the lake and dry him out. Kiryu doesn't really care about the sludge Hedorah has and can carry him out to dry land, and the twin larvae can bind him up while Kiryu dries him with the maser cannons. It's a long shot, but it IS doable. This isn't an impossible fight for Team SOS...

That said, I need to think on this.

[Tomzilla]

Likewise, I think Team Tokyo S.O.S. has a decent chance of winning. Kiryu's masers alone might not be enough to dry Hedorah out, but it'd most certainly keep the Smog Monster contained long enough for the Mothra Larvas to web him up and Imago Mothra to shower him in explosive pollen if he threatens to escape. Winners: Kiryu, Mothra, and Mothra Larvae

[Zarm]

I don't know about this. It's hard to gauge how Kiryu's armor would fare against Hedorah's acid, but there's also that red ray. And the immunity to Godzilla's beam has never left me convinced that a directional energy attack can actually accomplish the 'drying out' feat; the electrodes offered full-body, deep-tissue saturation; it's like being in a microwave vs. being poked with a flaming torch. One's a lot more immersive.

Right now, I'm not convinced that the Millenium team has what it takes to actually put Hedorah down (even though putting Kiryu down would be a long, grueling process as well). I am open to persuasion, however.

[SoggyNoodles2016]

shit, this IS a hard one.

Gonna cautiously vote for Hedorah for now though. Personally, I don't think the Masers will be enough to dry him out and the Mothras (great as they are) can't really do a lot with his body type.

Willing to change with more answers though.

[JAGzilla]

It might be time consuming, maybe even hard, but I say Hedorah takes this. There's very little the Mothras can do other than distract and confuse him; webbing isn't going to significantly impede a creature made of sludge, plus Hedorah's acid and lasers will be able to defend him, and of course Kiryu's attacks will damage the webbing as well. And then Hedorah obviously he has the power to kill the Mothras. They'd keep him occupied long enough for Kiryu to get several ranged attacks in, but I don't see those putting him down quickly enough. He endured a lot of punishment from those electrodes, and while he's not a genius, he would eventually work out that he could ignore the Mothras and concentrate fire on the real threat, Kiryu. Kiryu, of course, is kind of a glass cannon, and won't hold up long once Hedorah commits to killing him. After that, it's just a matter of picking off the fairly helpless Mothras.

Now, if Kiryu has the Absolute Zero Cannon available, that changes things. He would almost certainly have time to fire it, if so inclined, and it would at least severely injure Hedorah. Can Kiryu use it?

[GodzillavsRayquaza]

Now, if Kiryu has the Absolute Zero Cannon available, that changes things. He would almost certainly have time to fire it, if so inclined, and it would at least severely injure Hedorah. Can Kiryu use it?

SOS Kiryu, so no AZC.

[HillyHulk]

Webs will do nothing to a creature that burns to the touch and they don't have much else that will effect Hedorah. The scales could do something, but the sulfur clouds will corrode them eventually. Kiryu, on the other hand, should have an effect on the drying process (electricity killed Hedorah in its film). Hedorah doesn't seem to react to attacks, so the smog monster could likely reach Kiryu and start burning him or just throw/dump sludge onto it. I think Kiryu will kill it first, so he and the Mothra/larvae team should win.

[GmkGoji]

Oof, thats a hard one. Hedorah certainly can win this if he plays his strategy out right, but i have to give it to the S.O.S. trio. As said above, the masers aren't exactly enough to dry Hedorah out, but with repeated strikes, Hedorah will wear out.

[GodzillavsRayquaza]

Kiryu’s masers can definitely do damage to Hedorah, especially the Hyper Maser. It’s underrated because of what it replaced, but the Hyper Maser is still powerful. However, I’m giving it to Hedorah for a major reason. In most scenarios I would not know who to give this to, but the fact that they’re fighting in a lake tips things just enough in the smog monster’s favor for me. Most of the damage his foes do to him can be undone by flopping down. This also means that Mothra’s explosive powder will do nothing, because it will really hurt Hedorah for a brief moment before flinging him down into the water, where her attack will be undone. And now she’s unable to fly, with an enraged smog monster to deal with.

Edit: Retracting my Hedorah vote for now, the arguments given for the SOS trio make me need to rethink things.

[Zarm]

That's a good point; in this particular scenario, dehydration is barely even an option. Especially because even if stage 1 dehydration somehow happens, the flying form bursting out only has a few feet to unexpectedly zip before it's back in the water. Now, some might count that as a defeat- but then we're back to point 1... the unlikelihood of dehydration actually happening at a lakeside to begin with.

[Inferno Rodan]

I feel like people are forgetting that dehydration isn't the only way to beat Hedorah. Physically splattering him works just fine. His ability to reform is greatly exaggerated, so if he gets blown apart he's effectively removed from the battle for an extended period (several hours at the very least), which counts as a loss for him by any reasonable measure. Yeah sure he'll be back eventually, but that doesn't mean much when enough time has passed that his opponents could have had a picnic, taken a nap, and gone home already. Anyway, the SOS crew has plenty of explosives at their disposal to splatter Hedorah. Kiryu has all of his missiles, obviously, but he also has his backpack launchers themselves which make really big booms when they detonate. And if all of that still isn't enough, detonating Mothra's explosive scales certainly will be.

Siding with Kiryu and the Mothras here.

[Zarm]

The thing is- and the thing that always strikes me (no pun intended) about external attacks to Hedorah- if simply blasting away at his outside could do that (or introducing heat to dehydrate), why isn't Showa Godzilla's rock-melting, enormous-explosion-causing, Terror-Beast annihilating nuclear breath of any effect? Hedorah's two defeats and their causes have to be balanced against that demonstrated vulnerability. Yes, the kaiju who, at this time, was demonstrating insane feats of physical strength (ripping off limbs in Zone Fighter) could physically grab ahold and tear pieces off. Yes, full-body-saturation electricity could dehydrate after multiple inescapable rounds and tearing to pieces and catching the escaping flying form and destroying the eyes or eggs or whatever. But at the same time, the nuclear breath had no effect- indicating that just heat, or explosive force, weren't the only required ingredients or the reasons that those two defeats happened the way that they did. To ignore that side of the equation is selling Hedorah short and misconstruing the circumstances of either battle.

In addition, keep in mind that that splattering was against the land form, a much smaller, and potentially not as stable, solidified, or well-held-together form; the final form in this match did not demonstrate any such vulnerability, and in fact demonstrated the ability to discharge large amounts of body mass without harm, or even discharge the smaller form to regroup if harm was done to the outer body shell.

[Inferno Rodan]

The thing is- and the thing that always strikes me (no pun intended) about external attacks to Hedorah- if simply blasting away at his outside could do that (or introducing heat to dehydrate), why isn't Showa Godzilla's rock-melting, enormous-explosion-causing, Terror-Beast annihilating nuclear breath of any effect?

Showa Godzilla's beam? Enormous-explosion-causing? Excuse me?

Showa Godzilla's beam is like the epitome of mediocrity for kaiju beams. Early Showa's beam was really hot, yes, but it lost that in favor of being a bit more explosive from like the mid/late-60s onward. As for why it didn't work on Hedorah, it's obviously something specifically about Godzilla's beam that he's resistant to. I've seen it suggested that it's because the beam is radiation based. Radiation = poison = no effect on Hedorah. It's wonky logic, yeah, but it's good enough for a trippy movie involving a sentient pile of sludge. Point is, Hedorah does not have a general resistance to energy beams, as proven by the effect that bolts of electricity had on him. And at any rate, beams aren't what would be causing the explosions which would be splattering Hedorah in this match in the first place; it would be physical explosive devices or, in the case of Mothra's scales, fuel-air detonations. We know Hedorah's physical constitution is much less robust than is typical of kaiju, as shown by Godzilla plunging his fists in Hedorah's body on multiple occasions. Powerful explosions would rip Hedorah's body apart.

[JAGzilla]

Wasn't it stated in the movie that when the military attacked Hedorah off-screen, missiles had no effect? I think it might even have been said that missiles flew straight through him without detonating, though don't quote me on that. Kiryu will be packing more punch, yes, but Hedorah is known to be resistant to at least conventional explosives.

[Zarm]

The thing is- and the thing that always strikes me (no pun intended) about external attacks to Hedorah- if simply blasting away at his outside could do that (or introducing heat to dehydrate), why isn't Showa Godzilla's rock-melting, enormous-explosion-causing, Terror-Beast annihilating nuclear breath of any effect?

Showa Godzilla's beam? Enormous-explosion-causing? Excuse me?

Showa Godzilla's beam is like the epitome of mediocrity for kaiju beams. Early Showa's beam was really hot, yes, but it lost that in favor of being a bit more explosive from like the mid/late-60s onward. As for why it didn't work on Hedorah, it's obviously something specifically about Godzilla's beam that he's resistant to. I've seen it suggested that it's because the beam is radiation based. Radiation = poison = no effect on Hedorah. It's wonky logic, yeah, but it's good enough for a trippy movie involving a sentient pile of sludge. Point is, Hedorah does not have a general resistance to energy beams, as proven by the effect that bolts of electricity had on him. And at any rate, beams aren't what would be causing the explosions which would be splattering Hedorah in this match in the first place; it would be physical explosive devices or, in the case of Mothra's scales, fuel-air detonations. We know Hedorah's physical constitution is much less robust than is typical of kaiju, as shown by Godzilla plunging his fists in Hedorah's body on multiple occasions. Powerful explosions would rip Hedorah's body apart.

Yet we do see his beam causing explosions- such as the attack on New York in DAM. I believe in Godzilla vs. Gigan (could be my memory playing up). And definitively in Zone Fighter (Wargilgar, the Jellars, the ep 25 battle, etc), and the refinery fight in MechaGodzilla (the beam lock battle in particular). Is it the hottest Godzilla beam? The most explosive? By no means. But it's also by no means lacking in these qualities.

And no, there is nothing obvious about saying it's only Godzilla's beam he's resistant to. There is no evidence of other heat or explosive force having any effect to base that conclusion on. The electricity field saturates his tissues and dehydrates him, yes. Electrocution is a million miles away from heat, explosive force, or any of the other metrics being applied here. (And even that required long-term full immersion, which only affected an outer layer, and required a second use on a smaller form, which again only affected an outer layer, and required the gooey core to be torn apart and scattered to pieces small enough not to insulate the interior from drying out.

In short, there is nothing to indicate that Hedorah is vulnerable to explosive force- certainly, the electricity beams have nothing to do with that arena- and evidence (in the form of Godzilla's beam) that he is not. And again, the claim that his physical form is not robust is simply not supported by onscreen evidence. Porous and permeable, perhaps; that does not equate to easily-separated or poorly held-together. Viscous not equal fragile. All the evidence points to his form being more robust, not less, as nothing Godzilla was able to throw at him (or the military, apparently) had any effect, and even the one thing he was vulnerable to, the electricty, only affected a limited outer layer while the interior of the body was insulated from harm.

There is no evidence whatsoever that explosions would separate him, and copious evidence that they would not.

[Inferno Rodan]

Wasn't it stated in the movie that when the military attacked Hedorah off-screen, missiles had no effect? I think it might even have been said that missiles flew straight through him without detonating, though don't quote me on that. Kiryu will be packing more punch, yes, but Hedorah is known to be resistant to at least conventional explosives.

Maybe, but even if that was stated we have evidence to the contrary in the form of Godzilla being able to strike him without sinking into his body every time. Hedorah's squishy, but not THAT squishy.

Yet we do see his beam causing explosions- such as the attack on New York in DAM. I believe in Godzilla vs. Gigan (could be my memory playing up). And definitively in Zone Fighter (Wargilgar, the Jellars, the ep 25 battle, etc), and the refinery fight in MechaGodzilla (the beam lock battle in particular). Is it the hottest Godzilla beam? The most explosive? By no means. But it's also by no means lacking in these qualities.

I never said it wasn't explosive at all - quite the opposite, in fact. But there's a big difference between "mildly explosive" and "causes enormous explosions." Showa Godzilla's beam is the former, definitely not the latter.

And no, there is nothing obvious about saying it's only Godzilla's beam he's resistant to. There is no evidence of other heat or explosive force having any effect to base that conclusion on. The electricity field saturates his tissues and dehydrates him, yes. Electrocution is a million miles away from heat, explosive force, or any of the other metrics being applied here. (And even that required long-term full immersion, which only affected an outer layer, and required a second use on a smaller form, which again only affected an outer layer, and required the gooey core to be torn apart and scattered to pieces small enough not to insulate the interior from drying out.

...You do realize that it was the HEAT caused by the BOLTS (aka beams) of electricity that were drying Hedorah out, right? Like, you are aware that electricity burns things, right? It generates heat. Lots of heat.

In short, there is nothing to indicate that Hedorah is vulnerable to explosive force- certainly, the electricity beams have nothing to do with that arena- and evidence (in the form of Godzilla's beam) that he is not. And again, the claim that his physical form is not robust is simply not supported by onscreen evidence. Porous and permeable, perhaps; that does not equate to easily-separated or poorly held-together. Viscous not equal fragile. All the evidence points to his form being more robust, not less, as nothing Godzilla was able to throw at him (or the military, apparently) had any effect, and even the one thing he was vulnerable to, the electricty, only affected a limited outer layer while the interior of the body was insulated from harm.

There is no evidence whatsoever that explosions would separate him, and copious evidence that they would not.

I really don't think you understand. Hedorah wasn't affected by the explosive power of Godzilla's beam because the beam had a reduced effect on him in the first place. Even if that did equate to general beam resistance (which is doesn't, as proven by the electricity later on), that means absolutely nothing when it comes to explosions generated by other means. What you're doing is the equivalent of saying Heisei Mechagodzilla would be immune to Moguera's Spiral Grenade Missiles because beams have no effect on him. That's simply not how it works.

[Zarm]

Wasn't it stated in the movie that when the military attacked Hedorah off-screen, missiles had no effect? I think it might even have been said that missiles flew straight through him without detonating, though don't quote me on that. Kiryu will be packing more punch, yes, but Hedorah is known to be resistant to at least conventional explosives.

Maybe, but even if that was stated we have evidence to the contrary in the form of Godzilla being able to strike him without sinking into his body every time. Hedorah's squishy, but not THAT squishy.

Godzilla is able to strike Hedorah and- in certain circumstances- tear off chunks. However, I don't think that this conveys a conclusion as to the application of concussive force (as previously stated) or would contradict a direct statement to the contrary, if it was indeed made, as asserted here. If Hedorah has conscious control of its viscosity, it could choose to allow missiles to pass through, while allowing Godzilla to strike so that his fingers could be burned to the bone, for instance. Either way, if the movie presents us with both, I think intellectual honesty in debating compels us to reconcile both rather than tossing one out. (I would suggest, however, that the viscosity of the previous 'land form' seems to have been looser, hence how he was splattered about, and could account for the missile feat, while the final form seems to be more solid in all respects. So personally, I would tend to assume that the final form is neither vulnerable to 'splattering' as the earlier form was, nor capable of allowing solid objects to pass through anymore, as neither is evidenced in the final battle. A trade off; losing a vulnerability, but losing an advantage in the process.)

And no, there is nothing obvious about saying it's only Godzilla's beam he's resistant to. There is no evidence of other heat or explosive force having any effect to base that conclusion on. The electricity field saturates his tissues and dehydrates him, yes. Electrocution is a million miles away from heat, explosive force, or any of the other metrics being applied here. (And even that required long-term full immersion, which only affected an outer layer, and required a second use on a smaller form, which again only affected an outer layer, and required the gooey core to be torn apart and scattered to pieces small enough not to insulate the interior from drying out.

...You do realize that it was the HEAT caused by the BOLTS (aka beams) of electricity that were drying Hedorah out, right? Like, you are aware that electricity burns things, right? It generates heat. Lots of heat.

But so does the beam. That's the point. It melts a boulder like a defalting balloon (excellent science, there ) in MvG. The fact that the beam has no effect is an indicator that heat by itself is insufficient. It requires more than that. (I presume full tissue saturation.) But whatever you assume the other component to be, if two attacks deliver heat and one has no effect, it's clear evidence that heat alone is not the only required component. You have to look at what the 'and' is in 'heat and...' in the electricity field that makes it different from the heat alone delivered by the beam.

(And the notion, as addressed below, that a beam immunity means the heat generated by the beam is, I think, a misunderstanding of how heat conductivity works; even if the radiation stream itself has no effect, the heat that it generates as a byproduct isn't absent- if a monster is, say, immune to poisoning by lead, that doesn't mean being immersed in molten lead won't still convey the heat of a molten metal. And we see a similar effect with the Super-X2's fire mirror or SMG's armor. The heat of an attack an entity is immune to is still separately delivered, as it is a byproduct, rather than the thing it is immune to itself.)

In short, there is nothing to indicate that Hedorah is vulnerable to explosive force- certainly, the electricity beams have nothing to do with that arena- and evidence (in the form of Godzilla's beam) that he is not. And again, the claim that his physical form is not robust is simply not supported by onscreen evidence. Porous and permeable, perhaps; that does not equate to easily-separated or poorly held-together. Viscous not equal fragile. All the evidence points to his form being more robust, not less, as nothing Godzilla was able to throw at him (or the military, apparently) had any effect, and even the one thing he was vulnerable to, the electricty, only affected a limited outer layer while the interior of the body was insulated from harm.

There is no evidence whatsoever that explosions would separate him, and copious evidence that they would not.

I really don't think you understand. Hedorah wasn't affected by the explosive power of Godzilla's beam because the beam had a reduced effect on him in the first place. Even if that did equate to general beam resistance (which is doesn't, as proven by the electricity later on), that means absolutely nothing when it comes to explosions generated by other means. What you're doing is the equivalent of saying Heisei Mechagodzilla would be immune to Moguera's Spiral Grenade Missiles because beams have no effect on him. That's simply not how it works.

As with the heat above, I would disagree that the reduced effectiveness of the beam indicates a reduced effectiveness of explosions- as, like the heat, I would class the explosions as a side-effect rather than a feature. Someone more versed in the science (and if a stream of radiation would even have any scientific reason to generate an explosion in the first place, or if it's just movie magic to begin with) could correct this; I would see the explosion as inherent to the beam striking a foreign surface, an externally-delivered detonation (much like a warhead detonating against something), as it causes non-explosive substances to erupt in a fireball that the material itself would not seem to account for; those the explosion is being supplied by the beam and created atop the target (much is it would be by a warhead), and as such, would not be affected by the material's lack of vulnerability to the beam itself, as it is not dependant on that for an explosion to occur. (Otherwise, so many different materials- including the air itself, in the case of a beam lock- would not identically detonate).

One could argue that the explosion is instead a result of impact with the surface of a foreign material, causing that surface itself to explode- and thus that the surface of Hedorah is such that it is not reactive with radiation to cause an explosive reaction, I suppose. I'm not certain that this accounts for the mechanics of beam explosions as seen throughout the use of Showa Godzilla's beam, especially the beam-lock explosion, but if that is that contention here, it is worth delving into the mechanics more deeply to see which contention holds the greater merit.

Either way, I wouldn't say that general beam resistance is evidenced for or against by the electricity later on; I would consider those apples and oranges, as a lightning field is very different in composition and nature to a beam. (For instance, lighting and the showa beam are shown to have an extremely different nature on King Kong; the way a kaiju reacts to one is not at all indicative of how they would react to another, just as the effect that an electrical charge and radiation exposure have on various materials is profoundly different).

Either way- to re-cast a metaphor, beams have no direct effect on Heisei Mechagodzilla- but the heat and explosions they generate can still affect it. I would expect it to be affected by the explosion of a missile, just as I would expect it to be affected if a beam generated an explosion on or near it surface... because whatever it's relationship to beams may be, the explosion is a separate entity that still affects it no matter what the thing generating the explosion is.


That said- much of this argument hinges on:
A. Whether the JSDF is said to have ever actually engaged him with explosives and what the effect was said to be
B. The agreed mechanics of how an explosive beam generates said explosion and whether a non-reactive material would negate that method
C. The agreed-upon potency of Kiryu's missiles on kaiju-tier targets to begin with

[Inferno Rodan]

Godzilla is able to strike Hedorah and- in certain circumstances- tear off chunks. However, I don't think that this conveys a conclusion as to the application of concussive force (as previously stated) or would contradict a direct statement to the contrary, if it was indeed made, as asserted here. If Hedorah has conscious control of its viscosity, it could choose to allow missiles to pass through, while allowing Godzilla to strike so that his fingers could be burned to the bone, for instance. Either way, if the movie presents us with both, I think intellectual honesty in debating compels us to reconcile both rather than tossing one out. (I would suggest, however, that the viscosity of the previous 'land form' seems to have been looser, hence how he was splattered about, and could account for the missile feat, while the final form seems to be more solid in all respects. So personally, I would tend to assume that the final form is neither vulnerable to 'splattering' as the earlier form was, nor capable of allowing solid objects to pass through anymore, as neither is evidenced in the final battle. A trade off; losing a vulnerability, but losing an advantage in the process.)

What you're suggesting makes absolutely no sense, in no small part because the act of breaking Hedorah's "skin" is what harms Godzilla.

Also, there is precedence for ignoring offscreen feats/powers for kaiju: Yongary was stated to have an energy shield at one point in the movie, but it was never once shown in action. So it's ignored.

But so does the beam. That's the point. It melts a boulder like a defalting balloon (excellent science, there ) in MvG. The fact that the beam has no effect is an indicator that heat by itself is insufficient. It requires more than that. (I presume full tissue saturation.) But whatever you assume the other component to be, if two attacks deliver heat and one has no effect, it's clear evidence that heat alone is not the only required component. You have to look at what the 'and' is in 'heat and...' in the electricity field that makes it different from the heat alone delivered by the beam.

As I said before, Godzilla's beam traded heat for explosiveness as the Showa series progressed. Only early Showa showed the impressive heat output, and likewise was hardly explosive at all. That started to reverse in the mid/late-60s.

(And the notion, as addressed below, that a beam immunity means the heat generated by the beam is, I think, a misunderstanding of how heat conductivity works; even if the radiation stream itself has no effect, the heat that it generates as a byproduct isn't absent- if a monster is, say, immune to poisoning by lead, that doesn't mean being immersed in molten lead won't still convey the heat of a molten metal. And we see a similar effect with the Super-X2's fire mirror or SMG's armor. The heat of an attack an entity is immune to is still separately delivered, as it is a byproduct, rather than the thing it is immune to itself.)

As with the heat above, I would disagree that the reduced effectiveness of the beam indicates a reduced effectiveness of explosions- as, like the heat, I would class the explosions as a side-effect rather than a feature. Someone more versed in the science (and if a stream of radiation would even have any scientific reason to generate an explosion in the first place, or if it's just movie magic to begin with) could correct this; I would see the explosion as inherent to the beam striking a foreign surface, an externally-delivered detonation (much like a warhead detonating against something), as it causes non-explosive substances to erupt in a fireball that the material itself would not seem to account for; those the explosion is being supplied by the beam and created atop the target (much is it would be by a warhead), and as such, would not be affected by the material's lack of vulnerability to the beam itself, as it is not dependant on that for an explosion to occur. (Otherwise, so many different materials- including the air itself, in the case of a beam lock- would not identically detonate).

Combining these two parts together because they're addressing the same thing. I'm probably the last person on TK that needs a lesson in any form of physics. The problem is kaiju beams (and all of their powers in general, really) are borderline magical things that barely follow physics in the first place, so seriously trying to define how they work according to science is an exercise in futility. That's why I brought up Heisei MG's energy absorption: it makes abso-damn-lutely zero sense from a scientific standpoint, but the fact of the matter is that it does work so trying to explain the specifics of how it works is pointless.

One could argue that the explosion is instead a result of impact with the surface of a foreign material, causing that surface itself to explode- and thus that the surface of Hedorah is such that it is not reactive with radiation to cause an explosive reaction, I suppose. I'm not certain that this accounts for the mechanics of beam explosions as seen throughout the use of Showa Godzilla's beam, especially the beam-lock explosion, but if that is that contention here, it is worth delving into the mechanics more deeply to see which contention holds the greater merit.

Yes, this is basically what I'm saying is happening with Hedorah and Godzilla's beam. The minerals that compose his body have a resistance to the effects of Godzilla's beam. Sort of like a reverse version of the adverse reaction Biollante's cells had to Heisei Godzilla's beam.

Either way, I wouldn't say that general beam resistance is evidenced for or against by the electricity later on; I would consider those apples and oranges, as a lightning field is very different in composition and nature to a beam. (For instance, lighting and the showa beam are shown to have an extremely different nature on King Kong; the way a kaiju reacts to one is not at all indicative of how they would react to another, just as the effect that an electrical charge and radiation exposure have on various materials is profoundly different).

The electrodes were literally shooting beams of electricity.

Either way- to re-cast a metaphor, beams have no direct effect on Heisei Mechagodzilla- but the heat and explosions they generate can still affect it. I would expect it to be affected by the explosion of a missile, just as I would expect it to be affected if a beam generated an explosion on or near it surface... because whatever it's relationship to beams may be, the explosion is a separate entity that still affects it no matter what the thing generating the explosion is.

No, beams have no effect on Heisei MG at all. His armor absorbs them - heat, explosion, kinetic power, everything. Just watch what happens when a beam strikes him. It just washes over his armor and that's it. At one point MG even walked forward while Godzilla was shooting him.

That said- much of this argument hinges on:
A. Whether the JSDF is said to have ever actually engaged him with explosives and what the effect was said to be
B. The agreed mechanics of how an explosive beam generates said explosion and whether a non-reactive material would negate that method
C. The agreed-upon potency of Kiryu's missiles on kaiju-tier targets to begin with

A doesn't matter because, like I said, Hedorah was struck with more force than a missile impact on numerous occasions without the blow passing through him. B is also largely irrelevant, since as I said before beams won't be the primary contributor in damaging Hedorah here. C sort of matters, but not as much as it normally would because Hedorah's physical durability is faaaaaar lower than the average kaiju. On top of that, again, the missiles aren't the only explosives that will be brought to bear against him. Once the missiles run out, there's the launchers which can be launched as weapons themselves. And then there's Mothra's combustible scales.

[Zarm]

As I said before, Godzilla's beam traded heat for explosiveness as the Showa series progressed. Only early Showa showed the impressive heat output, and likewise was hardly explosive at all. That started to reverse in the mid/late-60s.

It's the same Godzilla. Unless there's evidence to the contrary, no, I don't think the heat can be eliminated as a factor. And even if one accepted the notion that the heat has diminished, I don't think there's any evidence for suggesting that it is absent.

Combining these two parts together because they're addressing the same thing. I'm probably the last person on TK that needs a lesson in any form of physics. The problem is kaiju beams (and all of their powers in general, really) are borderline magical things that barely follow physics in the first place, so seriously trying to define how they work according to science is an exercise in futility. That's why I brought up Heisei MG's energy absorption: it makes abso-damn-lutely zero sense from a scientific standpoint, but the fact of the matter is that it does work so trying to explain the specifics of how it works is pointless.

That is a fair perspective. But my point is this- if indeed it is mere magic, then the notion that the heat generated or conducted by the beam incidentally having no effect because the beam's substance has no effect, or the explosive effect being canceled out because it is dependent on reactive material, has no grounding in anything but a personal head-canon; there's no grounds for asserting it as an objective fact. If there's no agreed-upon way that the beams actually function (indeed, the idea of 'beam immunity' is an absurdly reductive concept to begin with, as so many different 'beams' have wildly differing compositions and sources; it's a trope of the genre, but it doesn't make much sense mechanics-wise), then the assertion that a heat-and-explosion-generating beam doesn't count for delivering heat or explosions and thus doesn't count as evidence of how Hedorah will react to either, because of a theorized immunity to the beam, simply has no factual grounding. It's an assumption extrapolated to extreme levels, but no more or less factual than any other interpretation.

All we see is that Godzilla's ray- known to have heat and explosive and radioactive properties- has no demonstrable effect when it hits Hedorah's Final Form, even though it previously did to the land form. In short, we see heat delivered by two methods (the atomic ray, the electrical bolts), one of which is debilitating and the other which is not (but once was). We also see explosive force delivered by by one method (Godzilla's beam) without effect. Those are the onscreen facts we have to account for. The theory that there is a simple blanket immunity to the beam and any associated effects, doesn't have a factual basis, however, and can't be asserted as such. It's a theory to account for why Hedorah isn't affected by the beam; now being tough enough to tank the beam that affected it before, and not being vulnerable to mere external heat, is another with just as much (or in this case, just as little) supporting evidence to assert it as the actual explanation.

Yes, this is basically what I'm saying is happening with Hedorah and Godzilla's beam. The minerals that compose his body have a resistance to the effects of Godzilla's beam. Sort of like a reverse version of the adverse reaction Biollante's cells had to Heisei Godzilla's beam.

That is fair; it is consistent with the position that Kiryu will have a differing effect. But lacking any specific evidence that this is the case, I would disagree- particularly that there is a heat exemption. We can't assume that any kaiju who tanks a hit is merely beam-immune, rather than strong enough not to be affected; plenty of kaiju fall into that category.

Either way, I wouldn't say that general beam resistance is evidenced for or against by the electricity later on; I would consider those apples and oranges, as a lightning field is very different in composition and nature to a beam. (For instance, lighting and the showa beam are shown to have an extremely different nature on King Kong; the way a kaiju reacts to one is not at all indicative of how they would react to another, just as the effect that an electrical charge and radiation exposure have on various materials is profoundly different).

The electrodes were literally shooting beams of electricity.

No, they are discharging bolts of electricity; just checked the scene.

Either way- to re-cast a metaphor, beams have no direct effect on Heisei Mechagodzilla- but the heat and explosions they generate can still affect it. I would expect it to be affected by the explosion of a missile, just as I would expect it to be affected if a beam generated an explosion on or near it surface... because whatever it's relationship to beams may be, the explosion is a separate entity that still affects it no matter what the thing generating the explosion is.

No, beams have no effect on Heisei MG at all. His armor absorbs them - heat, explosion, kinetic power, everything. Just watch what happens when a beam strikes him. It just washes over his armor and that's it. At one point MG even walked forward while Godzilla was shooting him.

But it doesn't exempt him from the heat; that's how he's defeated. The heat of the red spiral ray overcomes the armor's ability to resist. It is resistant to the effects of the beams, yes- but the heat, a side-effect of the beams, still has an effect of MechaGodzilla, which eventually leads to its destruction. And I'm certain that any explosions generated on its surface would be the same; an explosion is an explosion, regardless of what generated it.

Either way, this is beside the main point, as I don't think we're arguing this point anymore.

B. The agreed mechanics of how an explosive beam generates said explosion and whether a non-reactive material would negate that method

B is also largely irrelevant, since as I said before beams won't be the primary contributor in damaging Hedorah here.

Sorry for not clarifying; my point was that this was a relevant factor because it would determine whether Hedorah has already been unaffected by explosive force from Godzilla's beam, as I asserted earlier.

Also a relevant note- when the land form, who is vulnerable to Godzilla's beam, is hit, explosions are generated, and have no particular disruptive effect on Hedorah's body.

C. The agreed-upon potency of Kiryu's missiles on kaiju-tier targets to begin with

C sort of matters, but not as much as it normally would because Hedorah's physical durability is faaaaaar lower than the average kaiju. On top of that, again, the missiles aren't the only explosives that will be brought to bear against him. Once the missiles run out, there's the launchers which can be launched as weapons themselves. And then there's Mothra's combustible scales.

That's fair; the question of how powerful the explosives are is germane to all three; namely, how powerful are any of those three? The launchers are the heaviest hitters, I'd think. (Assuming that Hedorah doesn't evade any of the hits, shelter in the water and then launch attacks from there, take out any of his opponents with the red beam before they can empty their arsenals, etc.; all tactics he tends to employ)

However, I think we come to the crux of the matter between us- on what would you base the claim that Final Form Hedorah's physical durability is far lower than the average kaiju? I would claim exactly the opposite.

Interestingly, while Godzilla's punch does seemingly penetrate Hedorah once, it does so in a valley between folds, in a natural valley... which, after burning Godzilla's hand to the bone, closes off with a natural eyelid-like closure. I'm not entirely sure that this wasn't intended to be a natural orifice and Godzilla didn't punch through anything at all; the alternative is that we see skin regeneration with a speed and volume on par with Orga's. (59:22 in the Smog Monster cut). After this, however, none of Godzilla's punches or physical attacks has any effect; this, combined with the unusual nature of the area punched really points to it being a natural, sealable orifice that Godzilla struck for, and all indicators point to a physically-indomitable Hedorah. (The flying form also demonstrated a rubbery sking around 40 mins that Godzilla couldn't penetrate; it seems odd that the filmmakers would intend the final form to have had a downgrade.) However, if you'd rather super-regen, I'll take that, too; either one bodes well for Hedorah in this battle, along with the plentiful cover and hydration of the water, its corrosive effects, the power demonstrated by its red beam...

But any claim that Godzilla's one punch demonstrates low physical durability will have to account for the absolute indifference to all the others. And the argument for low durability also has to account for that scene with incredible regen.

So what's the case for a physically weak Hedorah?