Monster Mayhem Round 5: Zarm vs. Coobzilla03

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Monster Mayhem Round 5: Zarm vs. Coobzilla03

Postby Coobzilla03 » Sun Jul 01, 2018 1:54 pm

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Re: Monster Mayhem Round 5: Zarm vs. Coobzilla03

Postby Zarm » Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:00 pm

Well, let's start with the pros. My team has a lot more ranged weaponry that can strike at the meleers from a distance (particularly the Kongs- and I'll remind the court that while charged '62 definitely has offensive and maneuverability/dexterity advantages, we never see him actually hit with showa's beam in that state, so we don't have any guarantee of increased durability). And Sanda will beat Gaira... unless Frankenstein comes in for a double-team, which Coobzilla's numbers advantages would allow.

So, on to the cons. There's that aforementioned numbers advantage. And while my Anguirus is a scrapper, his is a mauler- so I have no doubt I'll be losing that little encounter. And while Gigan may be a little bit of a glass cannon in the durability department, he is indeed a cannon. As is Mechagodzilla, of course.

And honestly? Mechagodzilla vs. Heisei Godzilla? I don't even know, man. The one advantage I potentially have against MechaG; Jiger can replicate showa Godzilla's magnetc trick and pull him in to be helpless and smashed to pieces... if, y'know, Jiger survives long enough to do that.

After an opening volley, I see things looking something like:

- Godzilla (Heisei) (wounded)
- Godzilla Junior (lightly wounded- having taken out both Kongs)
- Jet Jaguar ( badly damaged, having taken out Gigan)
- Mothra (2001) (having taken out Larva)
- Jiger (having taken out Gwangi from a distance)

vs.

- Mechagodzilla (1974) (damaged)
- Anguirus (55) (wounded)
- Gaira (badly wounded, having defeated Sanda with Frankenstein's help)
- Frankenstein (Toho) (wounded)

I do think Jiger and Mothra's ability to strike from a distance, and Jiger's to disable with that stinger/ovipositor, really give the edge there in thinning the ranks.

Based on this scenario, Jiger disables Angurius with the stinger and then moves over to the ongoing duel between Heisei and MechaG to immobilize MechaG and deliver Heisei the narrow victory, Jet Jaguar and Gaira mutually annihilate, Mothra deals with Frankenstein. It's close... but I think it's doable.

Mind you, that's just one scenario, and I leave it up to you how convincing you find it.
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Re: Monster Mayhem Round 5: Zarm vs. Coobzilla03

Postby Coobzilla03 » Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:31 pm

Heisei Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla is a really good fight that could go either way. If Mechagodzilla gets hit much he'll go down. The problem is hitting him and not being floored by him. Mechagodzilla will likely be spending most of his time in the air here, pinning Godzilla down with his eye beams and missiles but not getting much headway.

Moving on to the drafts, King Kong '62 will likely defeat whoever he is fighting, even Junior. He seems durable; he wasn't damaged by Showa's ray and had tons of TNT detonated below him, and he was unscathed. The only problem he'll have is with Jiger. If Jiger is distracted (and she very well could be, seeing as I have the numbers) Kong can rip her a new one.

Gigan V2 is fairly durable, having taken Godzilla 2004's ray. I see him killing nearly anyone he fights. The exception is Junior, who I see him wounding somewhat before dying.

Going off that, I think my drafts my strongest are stronger than his strongest, and with my team having the numbers advantage the opposition drafts go down. After losing Gaira, Frankenstein, RKO Kong, and likely the Larva (she might survive considering the location has plenty of spots to hide), the remaining team up on Heisei Godzilla.

It's a close match, but I'm leaning myself.
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Re: Monster Mayhem Round 5: Zarm vs. Coobzilla03

Postby Zarm » Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:37 pm

Coobzilla03 wrote:He seems durable; he wasn't damaged by Showa's ray and had tons of TNT detonated below him, and he was unscathed.


Again, a reminder- we never actually saw the beams hit him in a charged state (and I certainly interpreted him as hurting when hit in an uncharged state.

Plus, I will indeed contend that the range advantage does counter the numbers advantage to a degree; some of your might not even make it to engaged range.

...That said, I think your interpretation is also completely valid. I agree that this is a really close match, especially between the two heavyweights. We will see what the spectators think, but I feel no shame in losing on this one if that is the result. :)
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Re: Monster Mayhem Round 5: Zarm vs. Coobzilla03

Postby Coobzilla03 » Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:54 pm

Zarm wrote:Again, a reminder- we never actually saw the beams hit him in a charged state (and I certainly interpreted him as hurting when hit in an uncharged state.

Plus, I will indeed contend that the range advantage does counter the numbers advantage to a degree; some of your might not even make it to engaged range.


There is a difference between hurting and damaging. Getting flicked hard enough might hurt, but you can do it all day without it damaging you.

You're right about the second point. Junior or Jiger could off someone. However, Gigan could do the same with his neck blades and scatter shot. And if Mechagodzilla succeeds in pinning Heisei down he's certainly capable of twisting his head around and blasting someone.
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Re: Monster Mayhem Round 5: Zarm vs. Coobzilla03

Postby UltimateDitto » Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:11 pm

I think Coobzilla03, can pull a win off, he has smart peeps on his team, and firepower to match. Gigan handily takes care of most of the monsters on team Zarm, Anguirus, Junior, especially Mothra. Final Wars Mothra is arguably the fastest Mothra around, 2001 isn't as fast when rushing to fight Godzilla, Gigan can easily dispatch her and use the flying buzzsaws to rough up Anguirus and Junior.

Frank can definitely strategize with the Kong's on ganging up on an opponent like say Jiger. One distracts her and tries to avoid being impaled with needles, the other throws buildings, and one subdues the tail!

Basically it comes down to coob and his overehelming numbers, but I think there is still a lot to discuss!
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Re: Monster Mayhem Round 5: Zarm vs. Coobzilla03

Postby Zarm » Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:34 pm

I think Junior is being undersold here; he's scaled up (to be best of my knowledge); he may not be quite papa's equal, but has a significant share of Heisei's firepower, durability, and regen. Anguirus may have some trouble with Mechagodzilla, but he's still hung tough in battle (including with the original Gigan and KG).

Gigan doesn't stand up well to punishment, and ranged punishment at the start of the fight comes form Heisei, Junior, Mothra, and Jiger, plus potential aerial combat with Jet Jaguar. He can take on one, perhaps- but I don't see him survivng long enough to take on another. And the Kongs aren't going to be ganging up on anyone; they're going to be heat-ray barbecue before the fight even starts. :) And why would one of Jiger's opponents be able to subdue the tail (especially not knowing it's a weapon) rather than being stabbed and taken out by it?

As to coobzilla's points, I agree that hurt is not necessarily damaged- but Kong was on fire and retreated, and I didn't see anything to indicate his soft mamalian flesh would stand up to heat and hard radiation for long- much less the far more potent beams being thrown around here. :)

I do agree that Gigan has plenty of firepower to be concerning- but he also has a much closer range with it. Jiger strikes from blocks away, probably the greatest range here; while the neck blades may proceed Gigan into battle, otherwise he's still going to be getting into close range before he unloads his lethal arsenal- in range to be struck. he can dish it out, but he can't take it. I agree that he will probably take someone down- but I would suspect he'll also fall in the process.

And yes, if Mechagodzilla is hitting Heisei with a barrage, he can also fire a volley in another direction... but like SuperMechaGodzilla, if he's not laying his full fire into Heisei, I don't know that he's going to be doing much pinning- and if he gets too close, a nuclear pulse is going to ruin his day. His chief strategy is injury avoidance rather than successfully taking damage, and the pulse is going to be doing a lot- along with Heisei much-spammier, and arguably faster-striking than MechaG's shield forms, heat ray.

I guess a lot does depend on who goes after who, here, though.
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Re: Monster Mayhem Round 5: Zarm vs. Coobzilla03

Postby Coobzilla03 » Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:41 pm

Junior is kind of puny (Scales to a mere 20 meters, 7,500 tons) and will get tossed around pretty bad if something gets close. I'll leave this as food for thought and post a follow-up tomorrow.
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Re: Monster Mayhem Round 5: Zarm vs. Coobzilla03

Postby Zarm » Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:28 am

So we're keeping the scaling proportional as opposed to being scaled to 50 meters? I had not realized that.

And you are right- his physical size is diminutive; but he also still packs a distance-wallop. He may not be a brawler, but if he keeps an opponent from getting close, he can still prove pretty effective. Again, I think that's the strength of my team- the ability to engage from a distance without reciprocal engagement on most opponents- and the needed firepower to one-shot folks (most rays vs. 1933 Kong, even if we disagree on '62 Kong and Gwangi, and Jiger's tail stinger- not to mention those quills being pretty disabling and that whole city-block-melter).

That, and what I'd call the 'Heisei Paradox'; just as with SMG, the lead fighter of the team either needs to direct their sole attention to countering Heisei Godzilla (preventing them from bringing their capabilities on others and leaving himself vulnerable to attack... or else dividing the attack but having insufficient firepower to keep Heisei down and drawing significant counterattack (which in this case, with the spammed rays and pulse could really prove problematic, and if behind his shield, just gives time for Heisei to regen)... or else use his significant powers on other members of the team instead... but leaving himself open to being blindsided by Heisei and taken out, losing MechaG and allowing Heisei to move on to other targets through the battlefield in exchange for picking off a couple of the smaller targets, which is a losing proposition.

Also, Mothra's apparent ability to revive one of the other fighters after she goes down will definitely prove significant. These three things, I think, really serve to break up the numbers advantage- striking first from a distance (including against several opponents that will not last long against those weapons), keeping the heaviest hitter occupied, and bringing back one of my team as reinforcements when Mothra is lost.


But hey, I'm not going to pretend the team doesn't have weaknesses, too; and I'm sure you'll elaborate on those in your follow-up. (To wit: neither JJ or Sanda will deal well with being double-teamed, as noted my Anguirus will not beat yours)
Last edited by Zarm on Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Monster Mayhem Round 5: Zarm vs. Coobzilla03

Postby MuchWowSuchGodzilla » Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:13 am

If MechaGodzilla goes down, Coob loses. No one else on his team has enough firepower to tax Heiseis regen AND pierce his armour. If MechaGodzilla goes for Godzilla which is the most plausible outcome, how many beams can he take before he dies? This is another important factor in this fight.


Im abstaining for now but I am leaning Coob due to the numbers advantage. I think Jiger plays a huge part in this too, considering Coob has alot of melee orientated fighters, and Jiger will kill anyone that runs up to him.
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Re: Monster Mayhem Round 5: Zarm vs. Coobzilla03

Postby Coobzilla03 » Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:07 am

The problem with Junior is that he doesn't keep his opponent back like his dad does. When first confronted with Destroyah's flying form he stood there and got knocked over by it. Based on that, he won't shoot someone charging him down. And unlike the flying aggregate they won't let up and open themselves up to being shot again.

I'm pretty sure Mothra can only revive Ghidorah, seeing as he is a Yamato guardian as well. And besides, it powered him up and we don't know how that would work on any random kaiju. That's getting into some high-end speculating.

Jiger never used her stronger techniques fighting Gamera for the 1st time. She threw a rock, then dragged him by her tail twice. That wouldn't really hurt anyone. And by the second attempt, they would know her tricks and pound on her like Gamera did, not giving her a chance to launch quills. Jiger only ever did the stinger once on her back. Her orange ray is... weird. From what I saw it uses sound, and my drafts and plenty smart enough to cover their ears. Gigan and Mechagodzilla are supposedly immune.

So if Jiger plays around like she did in the first match, she will die. She's a lot like an Ultraman in that she has good powers but doesn't use them until later.

As you stated I have the superior Anguirus, and Jet Jaguar and Sanda won't last long getting double teamed, and neither will Anguirus but I suspect he can last longer, unless he gets his jaw broken.

Mothra Larva could web up someone pretty good if she can survive (She has plenty of places to hide, only Mothra 2001 could find her easily). Sanda and Junior would be extra susceptible because of their smaller sizes.

Gigan's resists all of Jigers attacks, and would probably make quick work of her. The only problem he may have is Junior, but seeing as how he lets his opponents get close Gigan can chop him up. Maybe not killing him, but occupying him and doing damage.
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Re: Monster Mayhem Round 5: Zarm vs. Coobzilla03

Postby Zarm » Mon Jul 02, 2018 12:20 pm

Hey now- lets not pull try and pull retcons.

Junior didn't strike the first attack; I'll give you that. That doesn't really guarantee that he never will, but if we want to take that take, fine- Mechagodzilla will open with a single rainbow eye ray, which will sting Heisei, and then fall under a hail of beam-spam. Gigan will wait for an opponent to immobilize someone and slowly saunter forward with his chainsaw hands, not opening with his full arsenal at all. '62 Kong will saunter up kind of confused-looking, roar a lot, and be shot to little bitty pieces. Need I continue? :) If we're locking them into what their first appearance evidences rather than their full potential, your team's lack of aggression will take out far larger players than Junior (and even taking the first several hits, Junior rallied and won with his firepower and regen, which is also important to note).

As regards Mothra, the official page linked to only lists "can instill energy in others after its death" as a power. It is possible this is only a guardian-monster linked power, but there is no evidence that this must be the case. It did indeed power up KG, and I am not claiming that ability; merely that it can revive a fallen kaiju with the life-energy, much as Fire Rodan did- a known power among kaiju and a conservative estimate of what her power can do. If the counter-claim is that this listed power in fact does nothing at all, I think some evidencial support is called for.

Jiger didn't escalate her attack as long as her attacks were effective, perhaps; but she also thrashed Gamera multiple times. We've already discussed the behavioral lock above; if you want to abide by that, then MechaG and Gigan are gonna be toast. Either way, she didn't step things up because she was completely owning her opponent- as soon as Gamera started fighting back, she switched to the quills, defeated him, and left.

Her ray was labeled a heat ray, despite some mention of sound; it decimated concrete and steel, vaporizing buildings and charring a large area, and stripped humans to the bone instantly. There's no way that ear-covering grants immunity; and why would Gigan or MechaG be immune? If anything, its ability to vaporize metallic compounds on contact would make these two more vulnerable.

If we're taking sizes into account, are the Gargantuas remaining at their natural sizes? Because a 20-meter Frankenstein is going to be having some trouble, soon; he may not be as effective a double-teamer as I originally assumed.

Also, Mothra may be able to web someone up, but she'll have to choose her target well; whether Sanda is getting doubled-teamed or beating up one of your guys, his opponent is getting webbed up as well. Same applies with any meleer, including Sanda, Jet Jaguar, Anguirus, possibly Jiger, (per your suggestion) Gigan and Junior. There are few targets she can go after without immobilizing one of your own team in the process- unless the lack of friendly fire includes such magic exceptions to the laws of physics that falling web will somehow fall on only one of a grappling pair. :)

Again, why would Gigan resist Jiger's attacks? He's susceptible to being punctured like anyone, a cyborg whose biological components and biology can still be affected by the stinger, and the heat ray vaporized both flesh and steel, so both sets of components would be susceptible?

Yes, Junior let his opponent get up close once. Then, after taking several hits and even an injection of microoxygen, he overcame it with his regen and blasted his opponent. And we've seen what happens when Gigan gets blasted with a heat-ray; I don't think he'd keep Junior occupied for long.


So, we should decide what we're going to do with canonical evidenced behavior. Because if we're sticking with them, Junior and Jiger lose their range advantages- but so do MechaGodzilla and Gigan- and considering that they're the two to watch and potentially facing Heisei Godzillas with the respective firepower (and, if MechaG comes in to melee as he did before, a nuclear pulse that may wreck him) who could annihilate them with a good unblocked shot or two... that adherence to behavior will get your mechs killed. :) On the other hand, if they can operate at full potential, so can Junior and Jiger, and several of your drafts are going to fall right at the outset, evening up the numbers.
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Re: Monster Mayhem Round 5: Zarm vs. Coobzilla03

Postby Coobzilla03 » Mon Jul 02, 2018 1:10 pm

I'm simply stating Junior started the fight without shooting a beam. It should be assumed that he'll fight the same way here. Kong 1962 is charged, and we assume he'll rush in there and tackle someone like he did when he was charged and fighting Showa Godzilla. Heisei Godzilla will likely open up by firing at Mechagodzilla, prompting him to take to the skies and go through the neck-shooting motions. Jiger is assumed to start off by growling and throwing something, but when things get hairy she'll turn to quills and such. For Gigan, it depends on who he is fighting.

Junior may or may not start with a volley, but evidence suggests that he won't. He'll get mowed down first THEN fire his atomic ray, to debatable effect. What I'm trying to say is that we can't assume what someone will do, and how they react to certain things. We have to go off of evidence we've seen in their films. It's like assuming Monster X will start out firing his gravity beams like a madman instead of doing his combo that he did against GFW Godzilla. You can't say it with any certainty.

Not to sure of what to say about Mothra. Nothing suggests that it can revive anyone, or that its limited to Yamato guardians. I'll drop this point.

Gamera got hit by Jiger's beam multiple times, and the only thing that was damaged was his hearing. He plugged his ears with some telephone poles and Jiger ceased fire, seeing that it was ineffective. The characters even say that "it might even rupture his eardrums" and that he should cover his ears. That's why I think it can only do sound damage to something large.

The Gargantuas are their true height of 30 meters for Sanda, 25 for Gaira, and 20 for Frankenstein. Gwangi probably would scale to be about Showa Godzilla's height and weight. Gigan scales to 60 meters, 30,000 tons, etc.

I'm stating in the case that an opponent is alone, Mothra Larva can web them. Otherwise she'll be limited to webbing Heisei Godzilla.

I've got a question... is the Destroyah aggregate that fought Junior stronger or as strong as the multiple unleashed on Burning Godzilla? That would be a good way to gauge Junior's strength. Considering he's 1/3 Gigan's height and 1/4 his weigh, he's at a big disadvantage. So would the Gargantuas in about any fight they have.
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Re: Monster Mayhem Round 5: Zarm vs. Coobzilla03

Postby Zarm » Mon Jul 02, 2018 1:36 pm

Coobzilla03 wrote:I'm simply stating Junior started the fight without shooting a beam. It should be assumed that he'll fight the same way here. Kong 1962 is charged, and we assume he'll rush in there and tackle someone like he did when he was charged and fighting Showa Godzilla. Heisei Godzilla will likely open up by firing at Mechagodzilla, prompting him to take to the skies and go through the neck-shooting motions.


Why is that assumed? When he took return fire from KC, MechaG moved in for melee. (And this assumes that MechaG can take that opening shot successfully, or evade as well with a more beam-heavy Godzilla which has hit moving aerial targets before). If differing circumstances can prompt a changeup, it can prompt a changeup for anyone. But if we're agreed that MechaG will start out sauntering, take the first hit, and not go into barrage mode for some time, I'm quite happy with that, because Heisei will easily be able to take him out before he gets to that stage.

Coobzilla03 wrote:Jiger is assumed to start off by growling and throwing something, but when things get hairy she'll turn to quills and such. For Gigan, it depends on who he is fighting.

Fair enough on Jiger, but why would Gigan be variable? He poses, revs his chainsaws, advances slowly. That's the way he starts off. (A good way to take a facefull of hurt from whoever he goes against, or else necessitated his double-teaming someone, easing up the pressure elsewhere on the battlefield.)


Coobzilla03 wrote:Junior may or may not start with a volley, but evidence suggests that he won't. He'll get mowed down first THEN fire his atomic ray, to debatable effect.

I don't think the outcome of his first fight (the first of several) constitutes evidence. But even assuming that's a given, and everyone's following his set behaviors, how is junior's atomic ray effect debatable?


Coobzilla03 wrote:What I'm trying to say is that we can't assume what someone will do, and how they react to certain things. We have to go off of evidence we've seen in their films. It's like assuming Monster X will start out firing his gravity beams like a madman instead of doing his combo that he did against GFW Godzilla. You can't say it with any certainty.

No, you can't; but the evidence in the films only pertains to a given scenario; for instance, Junior being flown at, in his very first fight, by a Destroyah aggregate. Or Monster X facing FW Godzilla one-on-one. There's already assumption going on when assuming their reactions in these situations are their default reactions for every battle, or a constant that will be applied even in multi-kaiju brawls. Seeing what someone will do in a situation does not equate to reacting to every situation. But if we're going to apply it, we have to apply it universally.

Coobzilla03 wrote:Not to sure of what to say about Mothra. Nothing suggests that it can revive anyone, or that its limited to Yamato guardians. I'll drop this point.

The onscreen evidence suggests it can revive someone, the profile linked at the start of this match suggests it can revive someone. It is true, there is some ambiguity as to its exact nature, but the same could be said of Fire Rodan, and the precedent has been set to assume it will affect any ally the way it affects the ally in the film.

Coobzilla03 wrote:Gamera got hit by Jiger's beam multiple times, and the only thing that was damaged was his hearing. He plugged his ears with some telephone poles and Jiger ceased fire, seeing that it was ineffective. The characters even say that "it might even rupture his eardrums" and that he should cover his ears. That's why I think it can only do sound damage to something large.

It also vaporized a city block, however, and is in the profile as 'Jiger can fire a heat ray from amplified sound particles that is capible of dissolving buildings, ships and even humans.' I would be comfortable saying that it has a lesser impact on biological organisms (after all, bones are less dense than steel, and it doesn't vaporize them)- but that still makes it a potent weapon against mechanical beings.

Coobzilla03 wrote:I've got a question... is the Destroyah aggregate that fought Junior stronger or as strong as the multiple unleashed on Burning Godzilla?

Not sure. It was a single aggregate rather than multiple, so unless Destroyah gained a lot of mass, it seems like it was larger and more powerful than the colony that attacks BG? But I'm not sure on the comparative scaling, which would probably be the best indicator. Anyone else know?

Coobzilla03 wrote:Considering he's 1/3 Gigan's height and 1/4 his weigh, he's at a big disadvantage. So would the Gargantuas in about any fight they have.

A definite brawling disadvantage. But in terms of regen and beam, I think he's still going strong regardless of physical stature.
Last edited by Zarm on Mon Jul 02, 2018 1:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Monster Mayhem Round 5: Zarm vs. Coobzilla03

Postby Coobzilla03 » Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:02 pm

1. Mechagodzilla may or may not take the first hit, it depends on whether or not Heisei's beam aims high or low. If it aims high, Mechagodzilla can dodge to the side and fire missiles, prompting Heisei to return fire. If low, Mechagodzilla would fly up and begin shooting Heisei's neck and probably down him. That's why that fight's so close.

2. Gigan starts off like a doofus, but once he takes damage he will attacks based on his opponent. He'll handle 2001 Mothra like he did 2004 Mothra. For anyone else, it depends on what it does to him first. If its Sanda he'll most likely retaliate with his saws or chest saw, or he could use his ranged saws at a distance... he sure does have quite a few saw attacks.

3. I thought he had only fought the aggregate, then he was killed by Destroyah's final form. I'm probably wrong on that, but I don't remember being any more fights.

4. Junior's ray damage is debatable because he's rather small. It may not do as much damage as it did to the aggregate because he's fighting mostly larger opponents. And it depends on the size of the aggregate he fought.
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Re: Monster Mayhem Round 5: Zarm vs. Coobzilla03

Postby Zarm » Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:13 pm

Coobzilla03 wrote:1. Mechagodzilla may or may not take the first hit, it depends on whether or not Heisei's beam aims high or low. If it aims high, Mechagodzilla can dodge to the side and fire missiles, prompting Heisei to return fire. If low, Mechagodzilla would fly up and begin shooting Heisei's neck and probably down him. That's why that fight's so close.


Heisei's beam tends to sweep, and if he aims for center mass, it's possible MechaG wouldn't be able to dodge at all. I don't know that his flight rate is sufficient to avoid the beam if it comes across the ground (a good possibility), but again- being in the air doesn't prevent his being shot mid-air. (However, I don't believe his response to the first few shots was not to instantly dodge; in fact, at the refinery, I don't recall him dodging at all? That may have been his response to the breath coming out in the latter battle, having learned.)

And we definitely disagree on whether the missiles to the neck would come anywhere close to downing Heisei.


Coobzilla03 wrote:2. Gigan starts off like a doofus, but once he takes damage he will attacks based on his opponent.

Right- if he survives taking that damage.

Coobzilla03 wrote:He'll handle 2001 Mothra like he did 2004 Mothra.

Possibly- but 2001 is more agile, and actually has a projectile weapon, so things may not be so easy for him.


Coobzilla03 wrote:3. I thought he had only fought the aggregate, then he was killed by Destroyah's final form.

Yes, that's correct. I'm just not sure if (as per your question) that single aggregate (which had a MO beam, and I think was a larger size, and essentially constituted all of Destroyah at Jr.'s size) was the same as the aggregates that swarmed BG (which seemed to be smaller, and lack any weaponry, for instance). Might've been, might not have been- I find the scaling in that film hard to pin down.


Coobzilla03 wrote:4. Junior's ray damage is debatable because he's rather small. It may not do as much damage as it did to the aggregate because he's fighting mostly larger opponents. And it depends on the size of the aggregate he fought.

Would the damage output be affected by the size? I agree that a lot of Junior's benchmarks depend on whether the aggregate he fought and the ones that swamed BG were the same or different.

Shall we call it a night? Or even a few-days-until-after-the-fourth? Take some time to regroup, let others weigh in?
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Re: Monster Mayhem Round 5: Zarm vs. Coobzilla03

Postby Coobzilla03 » Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:16 pm

I was referring to MG's eye lasers, not his missiles. But yeah, let's call it a few days. Don't want matches to spoil our moods for the 4th! :)
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Re: Monster Mayhem Round 5: Zarm vs. Coobzilla03

Postby Zarm » Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:35 pm

Coobzilla03 wrote:I was referring to MG's eye lasers, not his missiles. But yeah, let's call it a few days. Don't want matches to spoil our moods for the 4th! :)


Ah! My bad- you're right, you didn't specify, I just assumed. Mea culpa! Have a happy 4th!
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Re: Monster Mayhem Round 5: Zarm vs. Coobzilla03

Postby GodzillavsRayquaza » Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:29 pm

Why does Jiger’s ovipositor keep getting brought up? It takes way too long for her to use it in anything but a 1v1 battle.

Anyway, Zarm’s team is already in an uphill battle due to the numbers disadvantage. Unless Heisei Godzilla can kill Mechagodzilla quickly, Zarm’s team is also going to have to deal with getting bombarded from the skies by precise shots with the eye lasers and missiles. However, anyone on Coob’s team that tries fighting Heisei Godzilla directly is going to either get blasted apart or mangled by Heisei’s sheer strength.

Junior is too small to do very much, his beam will hurt whoever it hits, but any of Coob’s stronger brawlers getting their hands on him does him in. Mothra can only really fly around and distract enemies, maybe blind one or two with the stingers, before getting blasted to death by Mechagodzilla or Gigan. Jiger will make some enemies bleed, and probably do some damage with the heat ray, but is too fragile to a beatdown from multiple enemies.

Here’s the thing, remove some of Coob’s weaker monsters and make this even numbers wise, and i’d have a really tough time deciding this. But the numbers advantage just means Zarm’s team gets swarmed, the weaker members of his team get taken down, and Coobzilla03 takes it.
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Re: Monster Mayhem Round 5: Zarm vs. Coobzilla03

Postby Zarm » Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:49 am

May I try and change your mind, good sir? :)

GodzillavsRayquaza wrote:Why does Jiger’s ovipositor keep getting brought up? It takes way too long for her to use it in anything but a 1v1 battle.


Partly because each brawl does end up being broken down into a series of smaller 1-on-1 brawls. I still maintain that the numbers advantage will be largely neutralized as a number of Coobzilla's beam-susceptible members are struck down int he first thirty seconds; but even with the numbers advantage intact, there are only enough extra members to double-team two of my fighters.


GodzillavsRayquaza wrote:Unless Heisei Godzilla can kill Mechagodzilla quickly, Zarm’s team is also going to have to deal with getting bombarded from the skies by precise shots with the eye lasers and missiles.


As discussed, unless MechaG keeps his full attention on Heisei, I think he is going to get taken out quickly byHeisei- and if he leads by walking up as in previous fights, or takes to the sky in response to the ray (where his rate of fire is greatly diminished) thinking he'll be unhittable (for Heisei, he won't be, as he was for showa), then he'll quickly fall in either of those scenarios, too. Which not only reduces the numbers advantage, but unleashes a very powerful foe against Coobzilla's remaining team members.


GodzillavsRayquaza wrote:Junior is too small to do very much, his beam will hurt whoever it hits, but any of Coob’s stronger brawlers getting their hands on him does him in.

Does it? I remind you, he started by getting tackled and taking a barrage of Destroyah's beams. Then he fought a vicious brawl. Then he got his bloodstream pumped full of micro-oxygen and being destroyed from within.

Then he rallied, fought back, and won.

Now, someone with the power of Destroyah, hauling him up in the air and dropping him, dragging him through buildings, etc., did eventually kill him. It's not like he can't be overwpowered. But he's not put down for the count as easily as first glance might suggest; he took a heck of a pounding from powerful rays, physical blow, and internal chemical attack, and overcame it.


GodzillavsRayquaza wrote:Mothra can only really fly around and distract enemies, maybe blind one or two with the stingers, before getting blasted to death by Mechagodzilla or Gigan.


Assuming either are available and not engaged elsewhere. But even then, don't forget her ability to revive a fallen ally; that further works to counter the numbers advantage.

GodzillavsRayquaza wrote:Here’s the thing, remove some of Coob’s weaker monsters and make this even numbers wise, and i’d have a really tough time deciding this. But the numbers advantage just means Zarm’s team gets swarmed, the weaker members of his team get taken down,


But again, two people getting double-teamed, with 1-3 of Coobzilla's folks being near-instantly susceptible to the rays that my team has in abundance, is not really a swarm. It's a minor advantage that can be quickly countered by early victories. Add into that a Mothra-death-revival, and the advantage is even further reduced.


Now, that may not be enough to change your mind- that's fine. But I do think the case is pretty strong, with the lynchpin of MechaGodzilla... and his behavior does not acquit him well against an aggressive beam-spammer that can hit midair targets rather than a strong-meleer with a low fire-rate and limited range on his ray.
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