Godzilla Singular Point FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

For the discussion of Shin Godzilla, Godzilla -1.0, the anime trilogy, Godzilla Singular Point and Toho produced and distributed films after 2015. Includes US movies financed by Toho like Detective Pikachu.
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Re: Godzilla Singular Point FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

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The ai goes back in time and remembers they have to make Jet Jaguar invincible per Yun's request. In the lens of this request they are able to solve the problem, (either that or they had the solution from the boat problem) allowing JJ to use the OD to grow large, and then explode upon destruction also implying other archetype manipulation. The song being broadcast contained all the information that was needed to update jet jaguar via the concept of an egg that contains all the genetic information of its offspring (I forget the name of the philosophical concept). That's at least what I get from it anyways, I'm planning on re-watching the series again shortly so hopefully that'll help clarify things.
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Re: Godzilla Singular Point FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

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Jetty_Jags wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 7:13 am The ai goes back in time and remembers they have to make Jet Jaguar invincible per Yun's request. In the lens of this request they are able to solve the problem, (either that or they had the solution from the boat problem) allowing JJ to use the OD to grow large, and then explode upon destruction also implying other archetype manipulation. The song being broadcast contained all the information that was needed to update jet jaguar via the concept of an egg that contains all the genetic information of its offspring (I forget the name of the philosophical concept). That's at least what I get from it anyways, I'm planning on re-watching the series again shortly so hopefully that'll help clarify things.
It just seems everything they were trying to solve never happened as it was the ai who “solved” it not our characters who have been spitting mumble jumble science the entire show trying to figure it out. It was really overblown in my opinion. I enjoyed all the monster action and all that but they REALLY need to cut back on the science talk in season two.
Last edited by Cookson on Sun Jul 04, 2021 7:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Godzilla Singular Point FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

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Well to be fair, I consider the ai characters to be the main characters, and I think that's the intent with the show considering they open and close with their discussions, and they have the most character development, but I realize that isn't immediately noticeable.
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Re: Godzilla Singular Point FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

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Cookson wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 7:22 am
Jetty_Jags wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 7:13 am The ai goes back in time and remembers they have to make Jet Jaguar invincible per Yun's request. In the lens of this request they are able to solve the problem, (either that or they had the solution from the boat problem) allowing JJ to use the OD to grow large, and then explode upon destruction also implying other archetype manipulation. The song being broadcast contained all the information that was needed to update jet jaguar via the concept of an egg that contains all the genetic information of its offspring (I forget the name of the philosophical concept). That's at least what I get from it anyways, I'm planning on re-watching the series again shortly so hopefully that'll help clarify things.
It just seems everything they were trying to solve never happened as it was the ai who “solved” it not our characters who have been spitting mumble jumble science the entire show trying to figure it out. It was really overblown in my opinion. I enjoyed all the monster action and all that but they REALLY need to cut back on the science talk in season two.
I suppose so, but Yun (and Ootaki factory) pretty much raise Jet Jaguar. Not only does Ootaki crew make the physical body, but there's a few very key moments that JJ would've been destroyed if not for Yun and co. Examples include: Yun using a wrench to distract the Rodan in episode 2, Yun guiding Jet Jaguar because he was "blind" during the latter part of the fight with Angurius, and even when Haberu gives the final push to JJ in order for him to fly. It also ignores all the specific character development and conversations Yun and the others have with both Yunga (JJ) and Mei with Pelops 2. Also, kudos to having a series with two distinct Ai that are not just generic I AM A ROBOT types.
Last edited by LSD Jellyfish on Sun Jul 04, 2021 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Godzilla Singular Point FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

Post by miguelnuva »

Mei's AI and Yun's Ai had a baby that became the new Jet Jaguar right? That's why it started as a baby again.
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Re: Godzilla Singular Point FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

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miguelnuva wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 4:11 pm Mei's AI and Yun's Ai had a baby that became the new Jet Jaguar right? That's why it started as a baby again.
That's the simple explanation but yeah. The series has a lot of that. It's easy to understand what is going on, but the fine details are very obtuse.
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Re: Godzilla Singular Point FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

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So was Otashis research a witch hunt to nothing? Was everything he did just a sham to get people confused and FAIL? It actually seems he WANTED the catastrophe to happen?

Can someone explain the science “for dummies”? What exactly is a singular point? What did time travel have to do with anything(though we do see Otaahi in the end credits). Are the Kaiju showing up through portals from another reality? Or just showing up? That kind of stuff is really confusing as I don’t think it was explained very clearly.
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Re: Godzilla Singular Point FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

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Singular Points are pretty much the codename for "really strong monster". It's stated that SP kaiju hail from another dimension, but kaiju not associated with it like Manda and Anguirus are from Earth.
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Re: Godzilla Singular Point FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

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Cookson wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 9:51 pm I’ll be honest… I don’t understand the ending at all. They’re trying to get the code to only find out it doesn’t exist? Then jet Jaguar remembers he’s invincible or something? They really should have done a basic Godzilla end of the world scenario. The pseudo science makes no sense to me in this world. Seems absolutely pointless.

If someone can really break it down that would be great. I’m trying to understand what they’re going for but don’t get it.
basically, it was all to set up a shounen infinite training arc time loop for JJ. most of the science was indeed irrelevant to what's actually happening. the relevant parts are:

1. archetype is just an extradimensional molecule, and can fold across higher dimensions. in this anime, time behaves like a spatial dimension, enabling time travel, at least for information like light, sound, and computer code
2. super calculators and kaiju are all singular points of archetype, meaning they're all the same point in upper dimensions and only appear different to us, like folding a 2d piece of paper around a coin and having it be in 2 places with 2 faces on the 2d plane, even though it's one point in 3d. this was poorly explained with the 6=9 and mei folding that strip of paper
3. pelops sends JJ's update progress back in time through the song, time looping itself and updating JJ and himself more and more with each cycle until he's strong enough to stop godzilla. it plays back across all SPs cuz they're the same place
4. the conversations about having the answer beforehand and having answers to questions they haven't asked yet was to try to allude to this, and flimsily dodge time paradox by just stating having answers to questions they haven't asked yet wouldn't change their behavior with no further explanation

what JJ meant was that no code was coming, cuz the code already came from the song. he subverted the impossibility of calculating an infinite number of possible codes with the infinite time loop, but to avoid paradox, the updates were set up to only be fully understood after the time loop, so he just conveniently forgot his hyperbolic time chamber training until the last minute

they haven't addressed the major plothole of ashihara clearly having heard and decoded at least part of the song, and being a major reason for him to establish shiva, all of which are kinda important events for everything to have happened

kaiju aren't exactly from another dimension in the same sense most people think....they're more like a 2d circle to a 1d line, or 3d coffee mug to a 2d piece of paper. dimension in this anime refers to spatial, not lovecraftian alternative planes of existence

edit: oh, and orthogonal diagonalizer is just a magic canister essentially. it rotates archetype molecules according to specifications (the code), and the goal is to find a configuration that makes them safer to our 3d world

also fun note.....singularity in the show is a different thing than singular points. they never really state what it is, other than it causes the catastrophe when there's too many of them, and timespace stops working as intended near it
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Re: Godzilla Singular Point FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

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One sentence I wish they would have included would have been if they stated Godzilla was trying to turn itself into the bones and that is why it was evolving to get Ultima. It wanted to be the second Godzilla.
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Re: Godzilla Singular Point FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

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BoswerLK wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 5:53 pm
Cookson wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 9:51 pm I’ll be honest… I don’t understand the ending at all. They’re trying to get the code to only find out it doesn’t exist? Then jet Jaguar remembers he’s invincible or something? They really should have done a basic Godzilla end of the world scenario. The pseudo science makes no sense to me in this world. Seems absolutely pointless.

If someone can really break it down that would be great. I’m trying to understand what they’re going for but don’t get it.
basically, it was all to set up a shounen infinite training arc time loop for JJ. most of the science was indeed irrelevant to what's actually happening. the relevant parts are:

1. archetype is just an extradimensional molecule, and can fold across higher dimensions. in this anime, time behaves like a spatial dimension, enabling time travel, at least for information like light, sound, and computer code
2. super calculators and kaiju are all singular points of archetype, meaning they're all the same point in upper dimensions and only appear different to us, like folding a 2d piece of paper around a coin and having it be in 2 places with 2 faces on the 2d plane, even though it's one point in 3d. this was poorly explained with the 6=9 and mei folding that strip of paper
3. pelops sends JJ's update progress back in time through the song, time looping itself and updating JJ and himself more and more with each cycle until he's strong enough to stop godzilla. it plays back across all SPs cuz they're the same place
4. the conversations about having the answer beforehand and having answers to questions they haven't asked yet was to try to allude to this, and flimsily dodge time paradox by just stating having answers to questions they haven't asked yet wouldn't change their behavior with no further explanation

what JJ meant was that no code was coming, cuz the code already came from the song. he subverted the impossibility of calculating an infinite number of possible codes with the infinite time loop, but to avoid paradox, the updates were set up to only be fully understood after the time loop, so he just conveniently forgot his hyperbolic time chamber training until the last minute

they haven't addressed the major plothole of ashihara clearly having heard and decoded at least part of the song, and being a major reason for him to establish shiva, all of which are kinda important events for everything to have happened

kaiju aren't exactly from another dimension in the same sense most people think....they're more like a 2d circle to a 1d line, or 3d coffee mug to a 2d piece of paper. dimension in this anime refers to spatial, not lovecraftian alternative planes of existence

edit: oh, and orthogonal diagonalizer is just a magic canister essentially. it rotates archetype molecules according to specifications (the code), and the goal is to find a configuration that makes them safer to our 3d world

also fun note.....singularity in the show is a different thing than singular points. they never really state what it is, other than it causes the catastrophe when there's too many of them, and timespace stops working as intended near it
Thanks for your input. Still super confusing. Seems like a ton of dialogue in the show but wasn’t explained simply by the end.

They definitely need to tone back this science talk for season two if there is one.
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Re: Godzilla Singular Point FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

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miguelnuva wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 6:54 pm One sentence I wish they would have included would have been if they stated Godzilla was trying to turn itself into the bones and that is why it was evolving to get Ultima. It wanted to be the second Godzilla.
where are you getting that from? that's not even implied
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Re: Godzilla Singular Point FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

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ClandestineCanine9 wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 3:32 pm
miguelnuva wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 6:54 pm One sentence I wish they would have included would have been if they stated Godzilla was trying to turn itself into the bones and that is why it was evolving to get Ultima. It wanted to be the second Godzilla.
where are you getting that from? that's not even implied
The Bones in the basement were of Godzilla. The new creature we see chase the Manda turns into a second Godzilla. I'm just saying I would have liked the show to mention that.
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Re: Godzilla Singular Point FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

Post by SoggyNoodles2016 »

Godzilla is inmortal and manifesting himself again after originally appearing in the 1950s and being killed to become the skeleton that's causing all the chaos.

He's not evolving INTO the skeleton's form, that's always what he was going to become
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This may be the first Godzilla with no connection to nuclear power.

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VOID GHIDORAH wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 5:33 pm This may be the first Godzilla with no connection to nuclear power.
GMK? There's a point where the beam looks like an atom bomb, but the creature is never tied to atomic energy or anything. Other entries, in the Showa series, while still being the same creature, often lacks any connection to nuclear power in the narrative.
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Re: Godzilla Singular Point FULL SPOILERS AHEAD

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LSD Jellyfish wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 5:40 pm
VOID GHIDORAH wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 5:33 pm This may be the first Godzilla with no connection to nuclear power.
GMK? There's a point where the beam looks like an atom bomb, but the creature is never tied to atomic energy or anything. Other entries, in the Showa series, while still being the same creature, often lacks any connection to nuclear power in the narrative.
GMK attacked a nuclear submarine, and apparently used that stored power to pull off the nuke feat seeing as he never does that again.

Showa Godzilla, although it was forgotten, was still created and shaped by the bomb in his origins and power set.

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VOID GHIDORAH wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 6:58 pm
LSD Jellyfish wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 5:40 pm
VOID GHIDORAH wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 5:33 pm This may be the first Godzilla with no connection to nuclear power.
GMK? There's a point where the beam looks like an atom bomb, but the creature is never tied to atomic energy or anything. Other entries, in the Showa series, while still being the same creature, often lacks any connection to nuclear power in the narrative.
GMK attacked a nuclear submarine, and apparently used that stored power to pull off the nuke feat seeing as he never does that again.

Showa Godzilla, although it was forgotten, was still created and shaped by the bomb in his origins and power set.
Ah yeah, forgot about the sub in the beginning. I suppose you're correct.

I think even though nuclear energy isn't directly stated though, Archetype and the experimentation parallel the usages of nuclear power and weapons. An unknown power is being carelessly used for both energy and weapons and is having disastrous effects. The imagery of Amphibia exploding, and then later the red dust spreading out, and making Tokyo uninhabitable is pretty similar to a nuclear bomb going off and then the surrounding area being uninhabitable.
Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:54 pm Anno-san pleasures me more than Yamasaki-san.

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LSD Jellyfish wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 7:20 pm
VOID GHIDORAH wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 6:58 pm
LSD Jellyfish wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 5:40 pm

GMK? There's a point where the beam looks like an atom bomb, but the creature is never tied to atomic energy or anything. Other entries, in the Showa series, while still being the same creature, often lacks any connection to nuclear power in the narrative.
GMK attacked a nuclear submarine, and apparently used that stored power to pull off the nuke feat seeing as he never does that again.

Showa Godzilla, although it was forgotten, was still created and shaped by the bomb in his origins and power set.
Ah yeah, forgot about the sub in the beginning. I suppose you're correct.

I think even though nuclear energy isn't directly stated though, Archetype and the experimentation parallel the usages of nuclear power and weapons. An unknown power is being carelessly used for both energy and weapons and is having disastrous effects. The imagery of Amphibia exploding, and then later the red dust spreading out, and making Tokyo uninhabitable is pretty similar to a nuclear bomb going off and then the surrounding area being uninhabitable.
Of course, I’m merely saying that it doesn’t have a directly nuclear origin (that we know of). The parallels are evident, I’ll agree.

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Post by LSD Jellyfish »

^Aye.

One question: What was up with a Rodan doll appearing in Mei's room in episode 1. To remember, I believe Mei has a small Rodan doll in episode 1, prior to the monster appearing. I assume it's an animation error, but it's one of the few things that's really bothered me.
Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:54 pm Anno-san pleasures me more than Yamasaki-san.

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