Will Toho use suits?

For the discussion of Shin Godzilla, Godzilla -1.0, the anime trilogy, Godzilla Singular Point and Toho produced and distributed films after 2015. Includes US movies financed by Toho like Detective Pikachu.

Will Toho use suits again going forward?

Yes
20
48%
No
22
52%
 
Total votes: 42

User avatar
Vakanai
EDF Instructor
Posts: 2726
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:27 am

Will Toho use suits?

Post by Vakanai »

This is not asking whether you prefer suits or not, or whether you hope Toho will still use suits, but without any personal wants or desires attached, do you logically *think* Toho is interested in using suits again?

A few points to keep in mind:
1. This is discussing full length theatrical films only - not taking into consideration short films for museums like that one honoring the original Godzilla suit actor, or that puppet show for kids, or those videos that play on those pachinko machines or whatever.

2. Shin did not use a suit (a puppet was made but never filmed according to Toho) and the film was widely hugely successful.

3. Again, this is divorced from what you want them to do and focused on what you think they will do.

4. No saying "It's up to the director's vision" or whatever. Take a guess please.
Last edited by Vakanai on Fri May 01, 2020 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I unapologetically, wholeheartedly, and without a doubt hate Godzilla vs Kong.

User avatar
Terasawa
Xilien Halfling
Posts: 5841
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:06 am

Re: Will Toho use suits?

Post by Terasawa »

Vakanai wrote:No saying "It's up to the director's vision" or whatever.
Uh... why not? Isn't that the most logical assumption at this point? We don't even really know what Toho's plan for Godzilla after the Monsterverse is. All we can do is aimlessly speculate...

Anyway, I'm voting "yes" because I think it will always be a possibility.
寺沢. He/him/his, etc.

User avatar
Gigantis
Sazer
Posts: 10492
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:52 pm
Location: Nebula of the Orion

Re: Will Toho use suits?

Post by Gigantis »

Well it's not like Toho's against using pratical effects since they did use a massive puppet to portray the Colossal Titan. You never know!
Image

A guy who randomly stumbled upon this place one day, invested much too much time into it, and now appears to be stuck here for all eternity..and strangely enough, i do not regret it!

User avatar
Vakanai
EDF Instructor
Posts: 2726
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:27 am

Re: Will Toho use suits?

Post by Vakanai »

Terasawa wrote:
Vakanai wrote:No saying "It's up to the director's vision" or whatever.
Uh... why not? Isn't that the most logical assumption at this point? We don't even really know what Toho's plan for Godzilla after the Monsterverse is. All we can do is aimlessly speculate...

Anyway, I'm voting "yes" because I think it will always be a possibility.
Because while it is logical, it's also a boring debate killer. Personally I hope we get both, but that's less fertile ground for discussion than an either or debate. This is pure speculation focused more on "I think" than "I want" where hopefully something more engaging than "artist's choice" will be talked about. At least that's my hope.

Also voting for it because it'll "always be a possibility" seems like trying to get to that "artist's choice" option still not in spirit of the thread's intent, but I'm not going to be a stickler for it. I just want a debate on why or why not they may or may not use suits vs CGI. It's interesting to me to speculate on that more than saying why not both, but to each their own.
Last edited by Vakanai on Fri May 01, 2020 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I unapologetically, wholeheartedly, and without a doubt hate Godzilla vs Kong.

User avatar
Terasawa
Xilien Halfling
Posts: 5841
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:06 am

Re: Will Toho use suits?

Post by Terasawa »

Vakanai wrote:This is pure speculation focused more on "I think" than "I want" where hopefully something more engaging than "artist's choice" will be talked about. At least that's my hope.
Then I'd take my vote back if I could. IMO there's not enough information to have an informed opinion.
寺沢. He/him/his, etc.

User avatar
Vakanai
EDF Instructor
Posts: 2726
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:27 am

Re: Will Toho use suits?

Post by Vakanai »

Terasawa wrote:
Vakanai wrote:This is pure speculation focused more on "I think" than "I want" where hopefully something more engaging than "artist's choice" will be talked about. At least that's my hope.
Then I'd take my vote back if I could. IMO there's not enough information to have an informed opinion.
As politics has proven from time immemorial - you don't have to be informed to have a thought. Besides, the only information Toho could provide is whether they will use suits or won't use suits, in which case there's no longer a question to debate.

But it isn't like there's nothing to use to make a speculation. We have CG Shin and upcoming Shin Ultraman, CG Shin Ghidorah in a ride, we have that museum movie 1954 recreation suit, other recent suits made too I think. There's enough CG and Suits stuff to form some basis on to make a debate I think. Sometimes the guessing and the debating is part if the fun.
I unapologetically, wholeheartedly, and without a doubt hate Godzilla vs Kong.

BlankAccount
Sazer
Posts: 12648
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2014 10:49 pm

Re: Will Toho use suits?

Post by BlankAccount »

Toho might use them less but even Hollywood is bringing some practical fx back.

User avatar
UltramanGoji
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 17719
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:40 am

Re: Will Toho use suits?

Post by UltramanGoji »

I think "No" mostly because of Shin Godzilla and Shinji Higuchi's reasoning behind the choices made for that film. The use of CGI means less complicated wirework and restrictions of movement are erased. Some practical effects shots might be used (say a foot crushing buildings or a close-up shot) but the majority will likely be computer-generated effects.
Image

User avatar
JAGzilla
Sazer
Posts: 11817
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:45 pm
Location: Georgia

Re: Will Toho use suits?

Post by JAGzilla »

In the short term, like the next decade or two, we probably won't be seeing many suits simply due to the fact that CGI is still kind of a flashy new toy, and audiences are still wowed by the realism and unrestricted spectacle it can achieve. And Japanese studios (from what little I know) are just getting into the game as far as actual good CGI is concerned, so they'll most likely want to show off their new capabilities and compete with Hollywood effects for the foreseeable future. But somewhere down the line, once CGI has no more room to improve and starts to become old hat, maybe people will develop an interest in filmmaking techniques of the past, and we'll see a resurgence of the 'retro' style.
"Stop wars and no more accidents. I guess that's all I can ask." -Akio

User avatar
Destoroyah of Worlds
Gotengo Officer
Posts: 1775
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:11 pm

Re: Will Toho use suits?

Post by Destoroyah of Worlds »

I hope so. Suits, puppets, and miniatures are a stable of Godzilla.

They could always enhance a suit with CGI like the Heisei Gamera trilogy did.
Come fourth, Ghidorah! Great Golden Winged Destroyer; deliver onto us a beautiful demise!

User avatar
Gigantis
Sazer
Posts: 10492
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:52 pm
Location: Nebula of the Orion

Re: Will Toho use suits?

Post by Gigantis »

I feel like motion capture CG, mixed in with actual city miniatures like most of the Godzilla series has done, would be a good way to go. It would kinda be like suitimation, just with a modern twist to it. Actual puppets and suits however, i wouldn't mind.
Last edited by Gigantis on Sun May 03, 2020 7:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image

A guy who randomly stumbled upon this place one day, invested much too much time into it, and now appears to be stuck here for all eternity..and strangely enough, i do not regret it!

User avatar
daikaijusaurus
Ronin
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2020 10:54 am
Location: California
Contact:

Re: Will Toho use suits?

Post by daikaijusaurus »

So this is my first post in this forum. Yipee! :lol: So glad to be here finally.

Regarding whether Toho will be using suits, I would say yes they will, but it will be used sparingly. For fast paced monster fighting action that will involve a lot of city destruction around them, I believe they will use suits with miniature city destruction. For monster battles that are slower paced with exchanges of laser beams, atomic breath, etc. I think they will be using CGI for the monsters and again miniature city destruction.

Being a CG animator, I love CGI but I also have a soft spot for suitmation, so when/if Toho creates more movies I hope they don't eliminate suitmation completely. But only time will tell...
My Video Channel Devoted to Toys, Video Games, Movies & TV.
https://odysee.com/@daikaijusaurus

User avatar
Gigantis
Sazer
Posts: 10492
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:52 pm
Location: Nebula of the Orion

Re: Will Toho use suits?

Post by Gigantis »

daikaijusaurus wrote:So this is my first post in this forum. Yipee! :lol: So glad to be here finally.
Welcome! :mrgreen:
Image

A guy who randomly stumbled upon this place one day, invested much too much time into it, and now appears to be stuck here for all eternity..and strangely enough, i do not regret it!

User avatar
Inferno Rodan
Futurian
Posts: 3985
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:49 pm
Location: Azur Lane

Re: Will Toho use suits?

Post by Inferno Rodan »

UltramanGoji wrote:The use of CGI means less complicated wirework and restrictions of movement are erased.
The irony here of course being that the two most recent Toho Godzillas are the stiffest and most immobile in the history of the franchise despite being fully CG.

Anyway, I suspect we'll be seeing only fully CG Godzillas from here on out. As much as I love suitmation, it just really isn't the best way to bring giant monsters to life in this day and age. I know the Ultra series still does it, but it operates under a different set of rules than Godzilla movies, both visually and budgetarily.
"The rantings of an upjumped zealot make for tedious listening." - Grigori, Dragon's Dogma

User avatar
LSD Jellyfish
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 14252
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:57 pm

Re: Will Toho use suits?

Post by LSD Jellyfish »

Inferno Rodan wrote:
UltramanGoji wrote:The use of CGI means less complicated wirework and restrictions of movement are erased.
The irony here of course being that the two most recent Toho Godzillas are the stiffest and most immobile in the history of the franchise despite being fully CG.
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

sTiFfest AnD iMobiLe


Shin easily has the most movement and animation (heh) out of many recent Godzillas. I think Toho could use both suits and CGI moving forward in the future. I think they should always use real miniatures though.
Last edited by LSD Jellyfish on Mon May 04, 2020 7:22 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:54 pm Anno-san pleasures me more than Yamasaki-san.

User avatar
UltramanGoji
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 17719
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:40 am

Re: Will Toho use suits?

Post by UltramanGoji »

Inferno Rodan wrote:
UltramanGoji wrote:The use of CGI means less complicated wirework and restrictions of movement are erased.
The irony here of course being that the two most recent Toho Godzillas are the stiffest and most immobile in the history of the franchise despite being fully CG.
Aside from what LSD posted, there's also the matter of Shin's tail being held up constantly and maneuvering about. A small detail, but one that would be entirely dependent on wirework had it been a suit.

Oh, and literally every aspect of the first two forms would be near impossible or impossible to make look half-decent had it not been for computer imagery and they are far from "stiff".
Image

User avatar
LSD Jellyfish
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 14252
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:57 pm

Re: Will Toho use suits?

Post by LSD Jellyfish »

UltramanGoji wrote:
Inferno Rodan wrote:
UltramanGoji wrote:The use of CGI means less complicated wirework and restrictions of movement are erased.
The irony here of course being that the two most recent Toho Godzillas are the stiffest and most immobile in the history of the franchise despite being fully CG.
Aside from what LSD posted, there's also the matter of Shin's tail being held up constantly and maneuvering about. A small detail, but one that would be entirely dependent on wirework had it been a suit.

Oh, and literally every aspect of the first two forms would be near impossible or impossible to make look half-decent had it not been for computer imagery and they are far from "stiff".
Think about how this would be done with suits:
Image

Now, I'm not saying it can't be done, or I don't want suits to be used, I just think a lot of the fantastic movement shin had and the advantages of using CGI could mix well with suits in the future. Best of both worlds.
Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:54 pm Anno-san pleasures me more than Yamasaki-san.

User avatar
UltramanGoji
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 17719
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:40 am

Re: Will Toho use suits?

Post by UltramanGoji »

I know the frame-rate of the GIF dilutes it a bit but the way the tail just absolutely snaps back when firing that initial beam is just fantastic. Powerful movement.
Last edited by UltramanGoji on Mon May 04, 2020 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image

User avatar
Inferno Rodan
Futurian
Posts: 3985
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:49 pm
Location: Azur Lane

Re: Will Toho use suits?

Post by Inferno Rodan »

LSD Jellyfish wrote:sTiFfest AnD iMobiLe


Shin easily has the most movement and animation (heh) out of many recent Godzillas.
You think the simple act of walking makes Shin some sort of gymnast or something, so pardon me for not taking you very seriously.

UltramanGoji wrote:Aside from what LSD posted, there's also the matter of Shin's tail being held up constantly and maneuvering about. A small detail, but one that would be entirely dependent on wirework had it been a suit.

Oh, and literally every aspect of the first two forms would be near impossible or impossible to make look half-decent had it not been for computer imagery and they are far from "stiff".
Okay first of all I never said Shin would have looked better if he wasn't CG. Quite the opposite, in fact. And secondly, when I talk about Shin being stiff, I'm obviously referring to he 4th form and not Kamata-kun flopping around like the googly-eyed fish-lizard he is.

As for the tail, if anything it moves less than that of most Godzillas. Most Godzillas' tails swish and flail around. Shin's just kinda... floats most of the time.
"The rantings of an upjumped zealot make for tedious listening." - Grigori, Dragon's Dogma

User avatar
LSD Jellyfish
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 14252
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:57 pm

Re: Will Toho use suits?

Post by LSD Jellyfish »

Inferno Rodan wrote:
LSD Jellyfish wrote:sTiFfest AnD iMobiLe


Shin easily has the most movement and animation (heh) out of many recent Godzillas.
You think the simple act of walking makes Shin some sort of gymnast or something, so pardon me for not taking you very seriously.
It's not the acts taking place, rather the fluidity of some of the movements, even with some of the budgetary constraints and how they are portrayed. Note how the second form undulates and has a movement very unique to pretty much any suit created monster. Note how the gills move up and around. Notice how when Godzilla roars the position goes from lower to upwards towards the sky and everything is really fluid. It's not so easy doing that with a suit.
Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:54 pm Anno-san pleasures me more than Yamasaki-san.

Post Reply