Could Kong show up in the world of Godzilla?

For the discussion of Shin Godzilla, the Godzilla anime trilogy, Godzilla Singular Point and Toho produced and distributed films after 2015. Includes US movies financed by Toho like Detective Pikachu.
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Denis
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Re: Could Kong show up in the world of Godzilla?

Post by Denis »

Vakanai wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 8:54 pm
Denis wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 8:44 pm
Vakanai wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 8:25 pm

I wouldn't really count vague source materials personally, but to each their own I guess? I mean, what's the point of some book saying it happened if we never see it on film? Film is everything, if it's not on the film...I just don't get it.
It isn’t vague, it’s from the Tokyo SOS guidebook.
It might have been unfair of me to say it that way without giving my reason - I view all movie guidebooks as vague aka obscure because most people will never ever own or read one. Movies are mainstream, their books aren't. To most of the world, and rightly so I believe, if it's not shown up on the screen then it doesn't count. It's only to super hardcore fans that are in love with knowing every little bit of continuity who really take in all these odd bits of trivia from guidebooks and act like it's gospel - and yes I get that it's "gospel" in the sense that at one point the director intended for it to be part of continuity, but it's generally considered by studios for possible sequel/continuation purposes that if it wasn't in film it's free to change should a sequel or prequel or spin off happen because only the actually "in film" continuity matters.

You don't have to agree of course, just sharing why I view such works as vague/obscure/not counting personally.
I mean it’s ok to disagree, but it’s from an official guidebook for Tokyo SOS, so it’s technically official in the Kiryu Saga
Last edited by Denis on Sun May 30, 2021 6:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Could Kong show up in the world of Godzilla?

Post by NSZ »

Vakanai wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 8:54 pm
Denis wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 8:44 pm
Vakanai wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 8:25 pm

I wouldn't really count vague source materials personally, but to each their own I guess? I mean, what's the point of some book saying it happened if we never see it on film? Film is everything, if it's not on the film...I just don't get it.
It isn’t vague, it’s from the Tokyo SOS guidebook.
It might have been unfair of me to say it that way without giving my reason - I view all movie guidebooks as vague aka obscure because most people will never ever own or read one. Movies are mainstream, their books aren't. To most of the world, and rightly so I believe, if it's not shown up on the screen then it doesn't count. It's only to super hardcore fans that are in love with knowing every little bit of continuity who really take in all these odd bits of trivia from guidebooks and act like it's gospel - and yes I get that it's "gospel" in the sense that at one point the director intended for it to be part of continuity, but it's generally considered by studios for possible sequel/continuation purposes that if it wasn't in film it's free to change should a sequel or prequel or spin off happen because only the actually "in film" continuity matters.

You don't have to agree of course, just sharing why I view such works as vague/obscure/not counting personally.
You'd have a point here if Toho ever revisited a continuity they moved on from. :P
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Re: Could Kong show up in the world of Godzilla?

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NSZ wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 8:14 am
Vakanai wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 8:54 pm
Denis wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 8:44 pm

It isn’t vague, it’s from the Tokyo SOS guidebook.
It might have been unfair of me to say it that way without giving my reason - I view all movie guidebooks as vague aka obscure because most people will never ever own or read one. Movies are mainstream, their books aren't. To most of the world, and rightly so I believe, if it's not shown up on the screen then it doesn't count. It's only to super hardcore fans that are in love with knowing every little bit of continuity who really take in all these odd bits of trivia from guidebooks and act like it's gospel - and yes I get that it's "gospel" in the sense that at one point the director intended for it to be part of continuity, but it's generally considered by studios for possible sequel/continuation purposes that if it wasn't in film it's free to change should a sequel or prequel or spin off happen because only the actually "in film" continuity matters.

You don't have to agree of course, just sharing why I view such works as vague/obscure/not counting personally.
You'd have a point here if Toho ever revisited a continuity they moved on from. :P
Even though Toho never revisits a continuity (other than 1954) I still think it's a valid point showing how studios and companies/corporations view the non-film material in general.

And there's still a chance they'll revisit Shin! :D
I unapologetically, wholeheartedly, and without a doubt hate Godzilla vs Kong.

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Re: Could Kong show up in the world of Godzilla?

Post by miguelnuva »

Vakanai wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 8:24 am
NSZ wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 8:14 am
Vakanai wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 8:54 pm

It might have been unfair of me to say it that way without giving my reason - I view all movie guidebooks as vague aka obscure because most people will never ever own or read one. Movies are mainstream, their books aren't. To most of the world, and rightly so I believe, if it's not shown up on the screen then it doesn't count. It's only to super hardcore fans that are in love with knowing every little bit of continuity who really take in all these odd bits of trivia from guidebooks and act like it's gospel - and yes I get that it's "gospel" in the sense that at one point the director intended for it to be part of continuity, but it's generally considered by studios for possible sequel/continuation purposes that if it wasn't in film it's free to change should a sequel or prequel or spin off happen because only the actually "in film" continuity matters.

You don't have to agree of course, just sharing why I view such works as vague/obscure/not counting personally.
You'd have a point here if Toho ever revisited a continuity they moved on from. :P
Even though Toho never revisits a continuity (other than 1954) I still think it's a valid point showing how studios and companies/corporations view the non-film material in general.

And there's still a chance they'll revisit Shin! :D
Shin is one and done. They maxed his stroy out.
You can put it on my Tombstone Mothra vs Godzilla> Gojira
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Re: Could Kong show up in the world of Godzilla?

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miguelnuva wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 4:53 pm
Vakanai wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 8:24 am
NSZ wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 8:14 am

You'd have a point here if Toho ever revisited a continuity they moved on from. :P
Even though Toho never revisits a continuity (other than 1954) I still think it's a valid point showing how studios and companies/corporations view the non-film material in general.

And there's still a chance they'll revisit Shin! :D
Shin is one and done. They maxed his stroy out.
Is it, or do you just want it to be? Never rule anything out.
I unapologetically, wholeheartedly, and without a doubt hate Godzilla vs Kong.

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Re: Could Kong show up in the world of Godzilla?

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Vakanai wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 4:57 pm Is it, or do you just want it to be? Never rule anything out.
I'm pretty sure it is considering Anno's moved on to making "Shin" versions of other Japanese icons and Toho seems perfectly content with coming up with different incarnations of Godzilla to use.

Getting more on topic, how would you guys feel about Kong maybe being portrayed as a different type of ape? Say, a gibbon, or orangutan, or a mandrill?
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Re: Could Kong show up in the world of Godzilla?

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Gigantis wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 5:07 pm
Vakanai wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 4:57 pm Is it, or do you just want it to be? Never rule anything out.
I'm pretty sure it is considering Anno's moved on to making "Shin" versions of other Japanese icons and Toho seems perfectly content with coming up with different incarnations of Godzilla to use.

Getting more on topic, how would you guys feel about Kong maybe being portrayed as a different type of ape? Say, a gibbon, or orangutan, or a mandrill?
Making him be a pongid ape would fit him perfectly.

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Re: Could Kong show up in the world of Godzilla?

Post by Denis »

Gigantis wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 5:07 pm
Vakanai wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 4:57 pm Is it, or do you just want it to be? Never rule anything out.
I'm pretty sure it is considering Anno's moved on to making "Shin" versions of other Japanese icons and Toho seems perfectly content with coming up with different incarnations of Godzilla to use.

Getting more on topic, how would you guys feel about Kong maybe being portrayed as a different type of ape? Say, a gibbon, or orangutan, or a mandrill?
Not sure, have a feeling he might be bipedal again like last time, just feel like their going to go with that.

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Re: Could Kong show up in the world of Godzilla?

Post by miguelnuva »

Vakanai wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 4:57 pm
miguelnuva wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 4:53 pm
Vakanai wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 8:24 am

Even though Toho never revisits a continuity (other than 1954) I still think it's a valid point showing how studios and companies/corporations view the non-film material in general.

And there's still a chance they'll revisit Shin! :D
Shin is one and done. They maxed his stroy out.
Is it, or do you just want it to be? Never rule anything out.
He was evolving to move past Godzilla, unless they retcon the ending how do you make a sequel to Shin especially with Anno being busy.

And while it is for different reasons I feel about Shin like you do Godzilla vs Kong.
Last edited by miguelnuva on Sun May 30, 2021 11:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Could Kong show up in the world of Godzilla?

Post by Vakanai »

Gigantis wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 5:07 pm
Vakanai wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 4:57 pm Is it, or do you just want it to be? Never rule anything out.
I'm pretty sure it is considering Anno's moved on to making "Shin" versions of other Japanese icons and Toho seems perfectly content with coming up with different incarnations of Godzilla to use.

Getting more on topic, how would you guys feel about Kong maybe being portrayed as a different type of ape? Say, a gibbon, or orangutan, or a mandrill?
I don't know if Anno's really moved on if he's still doing kaiju movies, and I also think it's unfair to say that Toho's content considering they've been unable to make their own films do to the Legendary deal, and that even though they have made other incarnations they have returned to Shin for a number of small projects. I just don't think it's necessarily as done as some say it is.

Added in 4 minutes 26 seconds:
miguelnuva wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 11:57 pm
Vakanai wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 4:57 pm
miguelnuva wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 4:53 pm

Shin is one and done. They maxed his stroy out.
Is it, or do you just want it to be? Never rule anything out.
He was evolving to move past Godzilla, unless they retcon the ending how do you make a sequel to Shin especially with Anno being busy.

And while it is for different reasons I feel about Shin like you do Godzilla vs Kong.
I don't know how a sequel would be done with how Shin was evolving, but I know that a solution could be found if it was decided that was a priority and they wanted a sequel.

And while I love Shin and can't comprehend why anyone would hate it - I get hating a popular Goji movie. I really, really, really do hate GvK. But the difference is, I guess, I'm not claiming that there can't be a sequel to GvK or that Legendary's MV is done, as much as I really, really, really wish it was. In fact, I know there'll be more MV movies, and I know they'll probably double down on all the problems I had with GvK. It's...a crappy place to be in, honestly.
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Re: Could Kong show up in the world of Godzilla?

Post by miguelnuva »

Vakanai wrote: Mon May 31, 2021 3:09 am
Gigantis wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 5:07 pm
Vakanai wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 4:57 pm Is it, or do you just want it to be? Never rule anything out.
I'm pretty sure it is considering Anno's moved on to making "Shin" versions of other Japanese icons and Toho seems perfectly content with coming up with different incarnations of Godzilla to use.

Getting more on topic, how would you guys feel about Kong maybe being portrayed as a different type of ape? Say, a gibbon, or orangutan, or a mandrill?
I don't know if Anno's really moved on if he's still doing kaiju movies, and I also think it's unfair to say that Toho's content considering they've been unable to make their own films do to the Legendary deal, and that even though they have made other incarnations they have returned to Shin for a number of small projects. I just don't think it's necessarily as done as some say it is.

Added in 4 minutes 26 seconds:
miguelnuva wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 11:57 pm
Vakanai wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 4:57 pm

Is it, or do you just want it to be? Never rule anything out.
He was evolving to move past Godzilla, unless they retcon the ending how do you make a sequel to Shin especially with Anno being busy.

And while it is for different reasons I feel about Shin like you do Godzilla vs Kong.
I don't know how a sequel would be done with how Shin was evolving, but I know that a solution could be found if it was decided that was a priority and they wanted a sequel.

And while I love Shin and can't comprehend why anyone would hate it - I get hating a popular Goji movie. I really, really, really do hate GvK. But the difference is, I guess, I'm not claiming that there can't be a sequel to GvK or that Legendary's MV is done, as much as I really, really, really wish it was. In fact, I know there'll be more MV movies, and I know they'll probably double down on all the problems I had with GvK. It's...a crappy place to be in, honestly.
Me not liking Shin isn't why I don't want a sequel just to restate. I just don't see because like I said, he was transcending being Godzilla so either you change the ending of you change one of the things about Shin changing forms.
You can put it on my Tombstone Mothra vs Godzilla> Gojira
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Re: Could Kong show up in the world of Godzilla?

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miguelnuva wrote: Mon May 31, 2021 3:22 am
Vakanai wrote: Mon May 31, 2021 3:09 am
Gigantis wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 5:07 pm

I'm pretty sure it is considering Anno's moved on to making "Shin" versions of other Japanese icons and Toho seems perfectly content with coming up with different incarnations of Godzilla to use.

Getting more on topic, how would you guys feel about Kong maybe being portrayed as a different type of ape? Say, a gibbon, or orangutan, or a mandrill?
I don't know if Anno's really moved on if he's still doing kaiju movies, and I also think it's unfair to say that Toho's content considering they've been unable to make their own films do to the Legendary deal, and that even though they have made other incarnations they have returned to Shin for a number of small projects. I just don't think it's necessarily as done as some say it is.

Added in 4 minutes 26 seconds:
miguelnuva wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 11:57 pm

He was evolving to move past Godzilla, unless they retcon the ending how do you make a sequel to Shin especially with Anno being busy.

And while it is for different reasons I feel about Shin like you do Godzilla vs Kong.
I don't know how a sequel would be done with how Shin was evolving, but I know that a solution could be found if it was decided that was a priority and they wanted a sequel.

And while I love Shin and can't comprehend why anyone would hate it - I get hating a popular Goji movie. I really, really, really do hate GvK. But the difference is, I guess, I'm not claiming that there can't be a sequel to GvK or that Legendary's MV is done, as much as I really, really, really wish it was. In fact, I know there'll be more MV movies, and I know they'll probably double down on all the problems I had with GvK. It's...a crappy place to be in, honestly.
Me not liking Shin isn't why I don't want a sequel just to restate. I just don't see because like I said, he was transcending being Godzilla so either you change the ending of you change one of the things about Shin changing forms.
Fair enough - I still think it's just a small writing challenge to figure out should they want to go that way, but to each their own.
I unapologetically, wholeheartedly, and without a doubt hate Godzilla vs Kong.

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Re: Could Kong show up in the world of Godzilla?

Post by Denis »

If Kong appears in World of Godzilla hope they have him in CGI, I don’t want suitmation, even though it’s unlikely they will do suitmation. So it would be interesting to see a Japanese CGI Kong.

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Re: Could Kong show up in the world of Godzilla?

Post by Dinoskell »

Hey, let's not forget as much as Delvin and Emmerich wanted to hide it, they still ended up using suitmation for some scenes. Suitmation Kong could work sparingly, or even mixed effects.

Personally I think Toho Kong could work in a new shared universe timeline and just have him an Godzilla doing their own things and occassionally teaming up. Parody the director of the original film saying a big issue was figuring out why they would fight. In fact when they first met in the original film Godzilla fires at Kong who's just weirded out. He doesn't seem scared or freaking out, he just looks at the burns on his fur, at the is fire breathing reptile on the cliff and goes "Nope. Not dealing with this today."

Or heck make battle of two kong based on the different personalities over the years. Kinda like the Gargantua movies but its not blood relation but getting a chance to see another of their kind or at least a convergently evolved similar large primate.

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Re: Could Kong show up in the world of Godzilla?

Post by Desghidorah »

In theory, Kong could be used so long as they don't call him King Kong. I actually do rather like the idea of using some of the Gargantua ideas and materials for a Kong(s).
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Re: Could Kong show up in the world of Godzilla?

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Yeah I mean we've had very different portrayals for Kong.
The original was a lunatic. Toho's first one was a chill, not malicious but still destructive hedonist. Then we have the popular "gentle giants". And King Kong Escapes hinted at toolusing and construction with King Kong apparently building a giant subterannean staircase by carving the rock and that's why Dr.Who wanted him to do mining. And Monsterverse expanded on the ideas of King Kong Escape's humanlike qualities, perhaps to a controversial extent, as the the giants of mythology. (Which does kinda fit with the original Kong being meant to be at the boundary between ape and man rather than just a giant Gorilla.)

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Re: Could Kong show up in the world of Godzilla?

Post by Denis »

Dinoskell wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:04 pm Yeah I mean we've had very different portrayals for Kong.
The original was a lunatic. Toho's first one was a chill, not malicious but still destructive hedonist. Then we have the popular "gentle giants". And King Kong Escapes hinted at toolusing and construction with King Kong apparently building a giant subterannean staircase by carving the rock and that's why Dr.Who wanted him to do mining. And Monsterverse expanded on the ideas of King Kong Escape's humanlike qualities, perhaps to a controversial extent, as the the giants of mythology. (Which does kinda fit with the original Kong being meant to be at the boundary between ape and man rather than just a giant Gorilla.)
I do believe Reiwa King Kong would be a gentle giant normally once again, but very dangerous if provoked.

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Re: Could Kong show up in the world of Godzilla?

Post by miguelnuva »

Denis wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:08 pm
Dinoskell wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:04 pm Yeah I mean we've had very different portrayals for Kong.
The original was a lunatic. Toho's first one was a chill, not malicious but still destructive hedonist. Then we have the popular "gentle giants". And King Kong Escapes hinted at toolusing and construction with King Kong apparently building a giant subterannean staircase by carving the rock and that's why Dr.Who wanted him to do mining. And Monsterverse expanded on the ideas of King Kong Escape's humanlike qualities, perhaps to a controversial extent, as the the giants of mythology. (Which does kinda fit with the original Kong being meant to be at the boundary between ape and man rather than just a giant Gorilla.)
I do believe Reiwa King Kong would be a gentle giant normally once again, but very dangerous if provoked.
If Toho does Kong I can see him being a cross between 33 and 76 personality wise.
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Re: Could Kong show up in the world of Godzilla?

Post by Dinoskell »

I do like the idea of Kong and Godzilla meeting and just ...not fighting for once, averting expectations. Would depend on how Godzilla is established in characterization, but this idea came to me when I saw how the writers and directors of the original matchup said them fighting felt so forced. Note that humans had to intervene to get them to meet again. In first meeting Kong didn't even seem that scared of Godzilla, just startled by the atomic breath and carefully examining the wounds caused by it before deciding it was all too weird for him.

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Re: Could Kong show up in the world of Godzilla?

Post by ROMG4 »

Doesn't the original 33 Novel King Kong enter the public domain in a few years? How does that work with Japanese copyright law and exchange?
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