Showa Series: Head Canon & Theories

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Re: Showa Series: Head Canon & Theories

Post by LegendZilla »

Building off of the other person's post suggesting that each Showa film takes place in its own individual universe, I think it's safe to say that the Whole Showa Universe is a compound amalgamation of multiple inter-connected bubble universes.

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Re: Showa Series: Head Canon & Theories

Post by miguelnuva »

Taking Godzilla and Rodan and leaving Mothra is like taking Michael Jordan and LeBron James to play basketball and leaving behind Sue Bird.

You have the two most powerful forces on Earth plus a force greater than them under your control what in the world is Mothra going to add or stop. You can conquer the Earth a day quicker?

Gtthm and MZ do a good job of showing Mothra is only needed to finish Ghidorah, Godzilla and Rodan and equal and drive him off.
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Re: Showa Series: Head Canon & Theories

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miguelnuva wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:00 pm Taking Godzilla and Rodan and leaving Mothra is like taking Michael Jordan and LeBron James to play basketball and leaving behind Sue Bird.

You have the two most powerful forces on Earth plus a force greater than them under your control what in the world is Mothra going to add or stop. You can conquer the Earth a day quicker?

Gtthm and MZ do a good job of showing Mothra is only needed to finish Ghidorah, Godzilla and Rodan and equal and drive him off.
Still, how would Mothra really fit in this movie? It's a direct follow up to the previous two Godzilla movies and all three were written by Sekizawa. The only way Mothra would have fit into MZ's story is if they stripped her of everything that made her special in the three other films she was in. You can't do MZ's story and still find a way to include Infant Island and everything that is entails. Yes, DAM did it, but the scenario, context and screenwriter were completely different for that film.

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Re: Showa Series: Head Canon & Theories

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Legion1979 wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:19 pm
miguelnuva wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:00 pm Taking Godzilla and Rodan and leaving Mothra is like taking Michael Jordan and LeBron James to play basketball and leaving behind Sue Bird.

You have the two most powerful forces on Earth plus a force greater than them under your control what in the world is Mothra going to add or stop. You can conquer the Earth a day quicker?

Gtthm and MZ do a good job of showing Mothra is only needed to finish Ghidorah, Godzilla and Rodan and equal and drive him off.
Still, how would Mothra really fit in this movie? It's a direct follow up to the previous two Godzilla movies and all three were written by Sekizawa. The only way Mothra would have fit into MZ's story is if they stripped her of everything that made her special in the three other films she was in. You can't do MZ's story and still find a way to include Infant Island and everything that is entails. Yes, DAM did it, but the scenario, context and screenwriter were completely different for that film.
Mothra only fits in MZ if she is getting her ass handed to her while the humans try to free Godzilla and Rodan. I agree with you that the Shobojin would have not only not agreed to the plan they likely would figured the Xilians out quickly.

In DAM you can at least argue that Mothra has been raised by Godzilla and not on infant island.
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Re: Showa Series: Head Canon & Theories

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Gotta remember that DAM is populated with several monsters (Angilas, Baragon, Manda, Kumonga, Varan, Gorosaurus) who were shown to have died in their previous appearances. DAM to me is just it's own standalone thing.

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Re: Showa Series: Head Canon & Theories

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Legion1979 wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:59 pm Gotta remember that DAM is populated with several monsters (Angilas, Baragon, Manda, Kumonga, Varan, Gorosaurus) who were shown to have died in their previous appearances. DAM to me is just it's own standalone thing.
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Re: Showa Series: Head Canon & Theories

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A lot of of Meta thinking, and I don't disagree with the arguments. It is looking at reasons some writes and directors pick and choose kaiju and plot elements. It also shows that a lot of trying to connect each film to past films is mostly unnecessary unless it is plot related. It is why trying to make the Showa Era into a history and timeline just doesn't work. It is just easier looking at the films individually and not as one long shared history. The kaiju are actors with star power headlining in the movie, more than an interconnected narrative.
Legion1979 wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:59 pm Gotta remember that DAM is populated with several monsters (Angilas, Baragon, Manda, Kumonga, Varan, Gorosaurus) who were shown to have died in their previous appearances. DAM to me is just it's own standalone thing.
I agree that DAM should be looked at as its own thing. It helps looking at the movies individually as their own cannon, without trying to do mental gymnastics to how it all fits with previous films. I brought it up because if you are looking to connected all the movies as a single timeline and narrative, then you can't use the excuse of Mothra not being able to be controlled if she is controlled in a later film in that timeline.

An amusing side note is the Champion Festival films from Godzilla Vs Hedorah onward do a pretty good job of continuity and not contradicting what happened before. Up untill the last film, which is a direct sequel, and changes a lot. The Champion Festival films also borrow the concept of "Monsterland" and "Monster Island" from DAM. Working the concept into the storyline that Godzilla and the other kaiju had found a home on some island in the Pacific. Which is why I always find it humorous when people want to watch DAM as the final movie of the Showa Era, you don't see the origin of the Monster Island concept in DAM.

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Re: Showa Series: Head Canon & Theories

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The shows countiunity is no worse than other media I watch like Star Wars and Dragonball for example.

Star Wars to Return of the Jedi opens up nearly as many problems as the showa series and that's without the prequels.
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Re: Showa Series: Head Canon & Theories

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I would say it about the same as continuity in Universal Horror, Abbott and Costello, Three Stooges, or the James Bond Films.

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Re: Showa Series: Head Canon & Theories

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szmigiel wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:16 am I would say it about the same as continuity in Universal Horror, Abbott and Costello, Three Stooges, or the James Bond Films.
Well, Abbot and Costello have different character names in different movies, so I'm not sure I'd read those as having even vague continuity. ;)

But, yeah, while making sense out of the Showa series as a single continuity is not impossible, it does require a heavy dose of head canon, and pretty much any theory that one person presents, another person is going to find a way to pick holes in.

I definitely think it's safest not to assume much of anything that isn't explicated in the movies. If we're looking at MZ and DAM in the same continuity, we just have to assume that differences in the nature of the X-seijin mind control technique from the Kilaak technique and/or changes in Mothra's circumstances made mind control viable in the latter instance but not in the former.
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Re: Showa Series: Head Canon & Theories

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eabaker wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:23 am
szmigiel wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:16 am I would say it about the same as continuity in Universal Horror, Abbott and Costello, Three Stooges, or the James Bond Films.
Well, Abbot and Costello have different character names in different movies, so I'm not sure I'd read those as having even vague continuity. ;)

But, yeah, while making sense out of the Showa series as a single continuity is not impossible, it does require a heavy dose of head canon, and pretty much any theory that one person presents, another person is going to find a way to pick holes in.

I definitely think it's safest not to assume much of anything that isn't explicated in the movies. If we're looking at MZ and DAM in the same continuity, we just have to assume that differences in the nature of the X-seijin mind control technique from the Kilaak technique and/or changes in Mothra's circumstances made mind control viable in the latter instance but not in the former.
One Mothra living with the Shobojin and having a psychic link with them and the other hanging out with Godzilla is all the difference you need to explain Mothra.

What ever happened between 66 and 99 the 3rd gen Mothra is more in line with Godzilla's way of life then her Mother ND Grandmother.
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Re: Showa Series: Head Canon & Theories

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miguelnuva wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:18 pm
eabaker wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:23 am
szmigiel wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:16 am I would say it about the same as continuity in Universal Horror, Abbott and Costello, Three Stooges, or the James Bond Films.
Well, Abbot and Costello have different character names in different movies, so I'm not sure I'd read those as having even vague continuity. ;)

But, yeah, while making sense out of the Showa series as a single continuity is not impossible, it does require a heavy dose of head canon, and pretty much any theory that one person presents, another person is going to find a way to pick holes in.

I definitely think it's safest not to assume much of anything that isn't explicated in the movies. If we're looking at MZ and DAM in the same continuity, we just have to assume that differences in the nature of the X-seijin mind control technique from the Kilaak technique and/or changes in Mothra's circumstances made mind control viable in the latter instance but not in the former.
One Mothra living with the Shobojin and having a psychic link with them and the other hanging out with Godzilla is all the difference you need to explain Mothra.
That raises the questions of why one of the Mothrae would be sent off to live on Monsterland, and why the second Mothra doesn't get involved with the events of DAM.
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Re: Showa Series: Head Canon & Theories

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Here's a theory as to why Minya seemingly did not age between 1967 and '99 : Godzilla's species ages much slower than humans.

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Re: Showa Series: Head Canon & Theories

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Re: Showa Series: Head Canon & Theories

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szmigiel wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:57 am A lot of of Meta thinking, and I don't disagree with the arguments. It is looking at reasons some writes and directors pick and choose kaiju and plot elements. It also shows that a lot of trying to connect each film to past films is mostly unnecessary unless it is plot related. It is why trying to make the Showa Era into a history and timeline just doesn't work. It is just easier looking at the films individually and not as one long shared history. The kaiju are actors with star power headlining in the movie, more than an interconnected narrative.
Legion1979 wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:59 pm Gotta remember that DAM is populated with several monsters (Angilas, Baragon, Manda, Kumonga, Varan, Gorosaurus) who were shown to have died in their previous appearances. DAM to me is just it's own standalone thing.
I agree that DAM should be looked at as its own thing. It helps looking at the movies individually as their own cannon, without trying to do mental gymnastics to how it all fits with previous films. I brought it up because if you are looking to connected all the movies as a single timeline and narrative, then you can't use the excuse of Mothra not being able to be controlled if she is controlled in a later film in that timeline.

An amusing side note is the Champion Festival films from Godzilla Vs Hedorah onward do a pretty good job of continuity and not contradicting what happened before. Up until the last film, which is a direct sequel, and changes a lot. The Champion Festival films also borrow the concept of "Monsterland" and "Monster Island" from DAM. Working the concept into the storyline that Godzilla and the other kaiju had found a home on some island in the Pacific. Which is why I always find it humorous when people want to watch DAM as the final movie of the Showa Era, you don't see the origin of the Monster Island concept in DAM.
IIRC, in Godzilla vs. Gigan, the Monster Island scenes with the stock footage also showed a scientific base on the island, so maybe what would become Monsterland was already in progress by 1972, but wouldn't be completed until sometime before 1999/2000 (I'm using both years because, even though the U.S. version of DAM says "1999", the Japanese version says "the end of the 20th century", which is 2000).

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Re: Showa Series: Head Canon & Theories

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The big white spheres that Godzilla ripped out of Hedorah weren’t eggs nor were they his eyes.
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Re: Showa Series: Head Canon & Theories

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ShinGojira14 wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:21 am The big white spheres that Godzilla ripped out of Hedorah weren’t eggs nor were they his eyes.
So… you tell us what it isn’t but not what it is?
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Re: Showa Series: Head Canon & Theories

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I recall from long ago a post on these forums or Monster Zero that the spheres could be solidified hedrium. I think that's just fan speculation but I can buy that. I guess that would be closer to the egg side of the debate, but IMO the spheres can't be Hedorah's eyes, just because they don't look like them.
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Re: Showa Series: Head Canon & Theories

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Terasawa wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 11:42 am I recall from long ago a post on these forums or Monster Zero that the spheres could be solidified hedrium. I think that's just fan speculation but I can buy that. I guess that would be closer to the egg side of the debate, but IMO the spheres can't be Hedorah's eyes, just because they don't look like them.
I thought Banno said they were eyes? I feel stupid now. I had thought they were eggs and someone mentioned Toho or Banno saying they were eggs but oh well. They things Godzilla knew needed to be dried out.
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Re: Showa Series: Head Canon & Theories

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miguelnuva wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 11:45 am
Terasawa wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 11:42 am I recall from long ago a post on these forums or Monster Zero that the spheres could be solidified hedrium. I think that's just fan speculation but I can buy that. I guess that would be closer to the egg side of the debate, but IMO the spheres can't be Hedorah's eyes, just because they don't look like them.
I thought Banno said they were eyes? I feel stupid now. I had thought they were eggs and someone mentioned Toho or Banno saying they were eggs but oh well. They things Godzilla knew needed to be dried out.
IIRC, one of Banno or Nakano publicly said they were eggs, while the other publicly said they were eyes.

However, that's my memory circa 2004, after Nakano made his G-Fest appearance. 17 years later I'm not so sure if my memory is correct.
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