Kong (Legendary) vs Legion

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Re: Kong (Legendary) vs Legion

Post by LamangoKaijura »

Or you know, he was out in the ocean. Doing stuff. But sure, let's go with your narrative. And it's pretty much confirmed Kong would make Legion his female dog.
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Re: Kong (Legendary) vs Legion

Post by Zasraniec »

Yeah Kong moved faster than Godzilla too but it didn't stop him. What stops me from giving this to Kong is Legion's durability. Only two things really caused actual harm to her. Dismembering her horn and Gamera's Super Saiyan strike and Kong obviously lacks the second option. Were it not for the conditions the OP set I would say this would be fairly one sided because of Legion's nasty beams and swarm. With that negated it is certainly a much closer battle, but unlike Godzilla Legion is more alien. From what we have seen they don't even have liquid blood but gas. I guess Kong could dismember her horn to gain a very brief KO but we all know what will happen after that. I see Kong getting some good hits in with his axe but will eventually succumb to impalement from limbs that could pierce Gamera's shell with Legion's alien body withstanding the punishment long enough to carry that out.
Last edited by Zasraniec on Fri Apr 23, 2021 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Kong (Legendary) vs Legion

Post by LamangoKaijura »

Legion's durability.

Legion is literally less durable then the damn War Bats. Gamera literally was able to pull off the biggest part of her.
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Re: Kong (Legendary) vs Legion

Post by Zasraniec »

Yeah I don't think Legion is more durable than MV Godzilla, but definitely a lot more than a lot in this thread give her credit for. It took a super weapon with dire consequences to defeat her. Sure she lost some limbs, but her core seems pretty durable. Durable enough for Gamera to realize he needs to drain the Earth's mana and let Gyaos run wild to stop her. Clearly a desperate last resort and Gamera thought it was justified. I think that says a lot. So yeah Kong could probably dismember her a bit with some good hits, but requiring that kind of power to actually end her speaks volumes to her actual durability which clearly is more than MV Kong's. As for Kong's axe I don't think it is as deadly against a kaiju that is not Godzilla since it is made from his species. It was almost useless against Mechagodzilla until it was fully charged. Given only Gamera's uber OP beam had the firepower to actually kill her. Firepower I don't see in the axe.
Last edited by Zasraniec on Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Kong (Legendary) vs Legion

Post by Breakdown »

In regards to Legions durability, Kong's axe was able to cut deep into Godzilla's skin, the same Godzilla who can face tank nukes on the high end and have 100,000+ tons of Ghidorah smash directly onto his head. Legion was damaged by handheld rockets. Kong's axe is going to perforate her with little difficulty.

Also Kong's agility will also make it nigh impossible to hit him seeing how slow and cumbersome Legion is. Kong will have little difficulty dodging an EM blast and hopping onto her back where she's totally helpless. She doesn't have any defense or appendage to dislodge him unlike Godzilla and MechaGodzilla.
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Re: Kong (Legendary) vs Legion

Post by Nagoda »

I just realized this fights is starting out with Kong having a FULLY CHARGED Axe. As in cutting through Mechagodzilla with ease fully charged. As much as I like Legion and hate how everyone keeps dogging on her for her poop aim and questionable durability, I don’t think she’s gonna survive that axe just getting thrown directly at her face. Kongs going to get stabbed at some point, but that axe is going to be tearing off more than can stab him at the start.
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Re: Kong (Legendary) vs Legion

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Since this takes place in New York, Kong has the advantage in mobility and possibly elements of surprise like he managed to do against Godzilla in Hong Kong.

If the axe was strong enough to puncture and embed itself into Godzilla's flesh, then it could no doubt rip into Legion and force the pressurized gas inside to leak out, Kong would definitely be smart enough to avoid the blades on Legion's body as he cuts unto her, but he probably wouldn't leave unscathed.

Kong should have this in the bag.
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Re: Kong (Legendary) vs Legion

Post by Zasraniec »

This is a very good matchup and the arguments favoring Kong are certainly not without merit. I guess it comes down to if you think a charged axe could kill Legion. Personally I really don't think it is as powerful as that mana blast but I guess I am the only one that thinks so. Especially considering Legion tanked it for a few seconds which was very impressive. Plus since this fight appears to have a fresh Legion she can fly and burrow too. With that in mind I think Legion can ambush Kong as much as the other way around. Oh well. GG.

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Re: Kong (Legendary) vs Legion

Post by LamangoKaijura »

Plus since this fight appears to have a fresh Legion she can fly and burrow too. With that in mind I think Legion can ambush Kong as much as the other way around. Oh well. GG.
Kong literally fought burrowing and flying creatures himself in both movies he was in. Skull Crawlers and Warbats. And look how it turned out for them? They were also more mobile then Legion was. Also the fact the axe was able to slice through MechaGodzilla 21 like a hot knife through butter? Legion's not going to enjoy it. Even if it WASN'T super charged, that axe can cause damage. Plus, Kong can literally tear Legion's limbs off with probably greater ease then Gamera did.
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Re: Kong (Legendary) vs Legion

Post by Zasraniec »

Eh we never got to see either of those creatures actually burrow in real time. The warbats just hang out in HE and skull crawlers use vents to go in and out. Plus they aren't anywhere near as deadly as Legion. Kong's axe also failed to kill MechaG and was really only good for dismembering it. The killing blow had to be his MK fatality of ripping his head out. Something that can't be done with Legion. Personally I think a concentrated mana blast would destroy MechaG faster than silicone Legion. Since I am the only one that thinks that seconds of Gamera's ultimate attack beats charged axe blows so I have accepted I am just going to be the one here that just isn't in line with the crowd on this one. Still all things considered this is my favorite match up so far and one I have talked about with kaiju fan friends that get a mixed reponse.

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Re: Kong (Legendary) vs Legion

Post by ShinGojira14 »

I’m definitely giving this one to Legion. Kong’s tough, but I don’t think he’s gonna last very long before that beam skreeonks him up.
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Re: Kong (Legendary) vs Legion

Post by LamangoKaijura »

ShinGojira14 wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 12:24 pm I’m definitely giving this one to Legion. Kong’s tough, but I don’t think he’s gonna last very long before that beam skreeonks him up.
Reminder, Heisei Gamera was slow as skreeonk compared to MV Kong.
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Re: Kong (Legendary) vs Legion

Post by Inferno Rodan »

Zasraniec wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:16 pm It took a super weapon with dire consequences to defeat her.
Gamera only needed to use the Mana Beam because he's a complete dumbass that would only aim for the very limited area Legion's shield covered. If he just had the slightest bit of sense to aim literally anywhere other than directly at the tip of her horn with his fireballs, he probably would have killed her easily.

ShinGojira14 wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 12:24 pm I’m definitely giving this one to Legion. Kong’s tough, but I don’t think he’s gonna last very long before that beam skreeonks him up.
I'm very curious to hear your reasoning behind this, considering 1) Kong showed he's very adept at avoiding beam attacks and 2) Legion showed she's incapable of even hitting an opponent that is literally standing still directly in front of her.
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Re: Kong (Legendary) vs Legion

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Zasraniec wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 12:15 pm Since I am the only one that thinks that seconds of Gamera's ultimate attack beats charged axe blows so I have accepted I am just going to be the one here that just isn't in line with the crowd on this one.
I don't think anybody disputes that the Mana Blast is more powerful than the axe, it's just that the axe is nothing to sneeze at, either. Also, just for fairness, do we know how effective the Mana Blast is against anything other than Legion? Did it do any visible damage to anything else in the environment? I didn't pay attention to that last time I watched the movie.

That matters because we already know that Legion's durability is a bit questionable, and while the Mana Blast certainly looked flashy, if we don't have a baseline for what else it can do, we can't honestly say that it was anything terribly special. Do we know that Gamera's fireballs couldn't have done the same kind of damage if his aim was better?
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Re: Kong (Legendary) vs Legion

Post by Breakdown »

JAGzilla wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:46 am Did it do any visible damage to anything else in the environment? I didn't pay attention to that last time I watched the movie.
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Re: Kong (Legendary) vs Legion

Post by Greyshot151 »

Thought of this fight for a while and I think this fight is closer than most think:

So the biggest thing in Kong's favor is the charged axe, but he'll at most get a 3-5 slices in before it uses most of its power. Which means the longer this fight goes on, the less effective the weapon will be as there is no way the axe can absorb the concussive, non-radioactive ray. Most of the outside factors also favor Kong with the terrain and Legion's lack of drones. And to those curious, Legion's adult form doesn't have wings. She sheds those but I'll get into that later.

Now for Legion. Size wise she will literally tower over Kong and strength wise she should be stronger if not equal if scaled. Her appendages will also tear into Kong if he's not careful. Now, people say the concussive ray's inaccuracy is its biggest drawback but in this fight, I think it actually helps. Kong was dodging a fairly standard beam, as in he could predict where it was going, but the concussive ray just goes wherever it wants with no real indication until it hits. Kong will find himself struggling to evade something he can't predict and even if it misses, the concussive power is insane and can/will knock Kong back.

Now as to Legion's durability, I think its pretty standard to solid with the highmark being her tanking the Mana beam a few moments. I never get the dunking Gamera Heisei monsters get because "they were hurt by missiles." For instance, KaijuX actually found this bit out but Legion losing her wings actually might have been normal. Apparently, she has a smaller form which is what she was in her first appearance and the larger form is suppose to be wingless so missiles destroying the wings is actually arguable as it might have been like an ant shedding its wings. The smaller appendages, no they were destroyed, so Kong has points where he can do damage fairly easily. But we also know that Kong will have to inflict massive wounds to actually put Legion down for good.

So my gut has to go with Legion. Kong will win a few rounds, for sure, but Legion's durability, concussive ray and ferocity will give her more wins then loses.

Legion 6/10
Kong 4/10
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Re: Kong (Legendary) vs Legion

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Greyshot151 wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:12 am Now as to Legion's durability, I think its pretty standard to solid with the highmark being her tanking the Mana beam a few moments. I never get the dunking Gamera Heisei monsters get because "they were hurt by missiles." For instance, KaijuX actually found this bit out but Legion losing her wings actually might have been normal. Apparently, she has a smaller form which is what she was in her first appearance and the larger form is suppose to be wingless so missiles destroying the wings is actually arguable as it might have been like an ant shedding its wings. The smaller appendages, no they were destroyed, so Kong has points where he can do damage fairly easily. But we also know that Kong will have to inflict massive wounds to actually put Legion down for good.
Yeah, the whole "hurt by missiles" argument against the Gamera Heisei monsters is bullshit. For Legion, it's only indicative of the frailty of her shield legs, not her entire carapace. Also, yes, withstanding the Mana Beam for as long as she did is a legitimate durability feat. It hit hurt her hard enough to create audible pulse rings upon impact, and she was blasted back for several seconds without immediately falling apart. Considering how insanely powerful the Mana Beam empirically is, that's noteworthy. The problem for her here is that none of her durability feats put her anywhere near LPG's level, and Kong's charged axe instantly pierced his hide. That puts the monkey at a serious advantage; he can cause life-threatening damage to the Queen much faster than she can to him. Especially since, as others have said, he's outright faster than she is to begin with.

So, yeah, Kong's winning this one.
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Re: Kong (Legendary) vs Legion

Post by Zasraniec »

Hey the believers in Legion showed up! I think all of us agree that this is gonna be a close fight with the conditions the OP said which is why I like this one. Anyways
[quote]Gamera only needed to use the Mana Beam because he's a complete dumbass that would only aim for the very limited area Legion's shield covered. If he just had the slightest bit of sense to aim literally anywhere other than directly at the tip of her horn with his fireballs, he probably would have killed her easily.[/quote]
I am sure if Kaneko had intended that then that is what we would have seen. I am pretty sure most of you are familiar with Alien so I am gonna quote Ash describing the biology of the Xenomorph which basically shows you why silicone biology is tough. "Well, as I said, I'm still... collating, actually, but uh, I have confirmed that he's got an outer layer of protein polysaccharides. Has a funny habit of shedding his cells and replacing them with polarized silicon, which gives him a prolonged resistance to adverse environmental conditions. Is that enough?" He goes on to say "Well, it's an interesting combination of elements making him a... tough little son-of-a-female dog." Not trying to derail the thread with Alien stuff and I don't think the Xenomorph biology is going to be the same as Legion's, but they both have the silicone factor which is known for being a tough element compared to carbon.
[quote]I don't think anybody disputes that the Mana Blast is more powerful than the axe, it's just that the axe is nothing to sneeze at, either. Also, just for fairness, do we know how effective the Mana Blast is against anything other than Legion? Did it do any visible damage to anything else in the environment? I didn't pay attention to that last time I watched the movie.

That matters because we already know that Legion's durability is a bit questionable, and while the Mana Blast certainly looked flashy, if we don't have a baseline for what else it can do, we can't honestly say that it was anything terribly special. Do we know that Gamera's fireballs couldn't have done the same kind of damage if his aim was better?[/quote]

Yes the axe can definitely do some damage. Especially when charged! It will definitely do some kind of damage to Legion. I am just not sold on the fatality of it against an enemy so.. ...alien. Anyway, someone else already answered your question but definitely look at the ground next time you watch it. It destroyed everything it touched! As for the fireballs see my Alien quote above. I think Kaneko would be pretty bummed if he found out some viewers think that Gamera's sacrifice was pointless in the sense that it was necessary just because he had bad aim. Not only would that make the ending pointless and self defeating but it would also make the sequel a huge copout too. It would also make Gamera fail at his job of protecting Earth and just kills the series really.

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Re: Kong (Legendary) vs Legion

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Zasraniec wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:33 pm I am sure if Kaneko had intended that then that is what we would have seen.
That's exactly what we saw, though: Gamera being an idiot. Heisei Gamera is very, very tactically stupid. It's a consistent issue in Kaneko's kaiju movies that he has the monsters do really dumb things for the sake of having cool scenes (it happens in GMK too, most notably Godzilla killing himself).
I am pretty sure most of you are familiar with Alien so I am gonna quote Ash describing the biology of the Xenomorph which basically shows you why silicone biology is tough. "Well, as I said, I'm still... collating, actually, but uh, I have confirmed that he's got an outer layer of protein polysaccharides. Has a funny habit of shedding his cells and replacing them with polarized silicon, which gives him a prolonged resistance to adverse environmental conditions. Is that enough?" He goes on to say "Well, it's an interesting combination of elements making him a... tough little son-of-a-female dog." Not trying to derail the thread with Alien stuff and I don't think the Xenomorph biology is going to be the same as Legion's, but they both have the silicone factor which is known for being a tough element compared to carbon.
First of all, it's silicon, not silicone. Silicon is the mineral, silicone is fake boobs. And no, silicon is actually very brittle. It also has a relatively high melting point. Both of these properties are consistent with Legion's demonstrated durability feats.
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Re: Kong (Legendary) vs Legion

Post by Zasraniec »

Yeah my English isn't perfect, but I am willing to bet bet my English is better than your (insert secondary language here) I guess you can think Gamera is a tactical failure if you want but if you ask me Kaneko did what he could with what he had to work with. The Heisei Gamera movies had less budget than the Heisei Godzilla movies and arguably are better. Anyway since most kaiju are of Earth and based off of carbon what matters is the difference between the two which was my point. Especially if the silicon creature doesn't have traditional organs or even blood. If Legion was as brittle as you are trying to make her out to be it wouldn't have taken multiple handgun shots to finally draw gas blood through the worker Legion, which mind you was fired on a weaker joint area. Gamera would also have shattered her in a few blows. Contrast that with Kong who is your typical carbon based lifeform. As shown in his fight with Godzilla, one good hit can take him out of the fight if he gets hit in a vulnerable spot like a shoulder joint or his ribs. Godzilla pretty much acted out of character most of the fight just to extend the fight for our enjoyment by not beating Kong too fast. Legion does not have this weakness. While this match sets it up so Legion's ranged power is basically negated so Kong get's the superior attack power in this fight, he is at a disadvantage in the durability area. If we rolled dice for multiple takes of this match Kong would might win some of them as this is close but I am still siding with the minority that I think Legion's durability gives a slight edge here. Gamera isn't as durable as Godzilla except for perhaps his shell. Since Legion has the melee attack power to go through that it certainly is going to go through Kong. If he just gets hit in a non vital area he could probably shrug it off and keep cleaving although nothing is really stopping Legion from just stabbing him again. I think the only real damage Kong could do is when the axe is charged. Otherwise he's going to get stabbed. Fatally. Kong may have the axe but Legion has the pikes.

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