Neon Genesis Evangelion

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mecha-gino
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Re: Neon Genesis Evangelion

Postby mecha-gino » Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:29 pm

Since this got revived and what not, I went back to my original question and kind of checked it out. I notice the limited holiday one has an extra disc and more of a runtime then the other more popular set. So do you guys think the holiday set is worth it or just skip it and go straight to the other set which btw does it have the movies attached to it?
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Re: Neon Genesis Evangelion

Postby mecha-gino » Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:12 pm

There's the holiday set and then there's the platinum. The plat is one disc shorter and the run time is lower too BUUUUT I heard one or two of the movies are attached with it but I'm not too sure.
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Re: Neon Genesis Evangelion

Postby MandaSaurus » Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:20 am

I was aware of NGE for years, before I even saw it. Several years back, Cartoon Network put the original series on Adult Swim. I was enthralled. I picked up a lot of NGE Kaiyodo product after that. I can't say that I liked 'Rebuild' as much as the original. I haven't seen 2.22 yet.

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Re: Neon Genesis Evangelion

Postby o.supreme » Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:02 am

Inferno Rodan wrote: At this point I find it MUCH more refreshing when we get a pilot that's generally happy and actually ENJOYS piloting their awesome war machine.


Thank you, Thank you, & THANK YOU :)

I just hope Go Nagai remembers this the next time he reinvents one of his classic Super Robot Anime's. In the 70's the pilots of his series were not tragic "broken" characters. Sure they may have had some tragedy to drive the story, but for the most part they enjoyed what they did, not motivated out of spite or hatred. Mazinger & Getter Robo need to be a little more like themselves, and a little LESS like NGE.

GaoGaiGar is a great example. --The hero (Guy) is mortally wounded and has become a Cyborg, but he is one of the most positive & upbeat characters I've seen in recent Anime. He loves to pilot his various Transformer like Mecha, kick alien butt, and save lives all at the same time! 8-) .
To all you dub preservationists, my friends, you have my eternal thanks 8-) . Never stop what you do, you are amazing!

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Re: Neon Genesis Evangelion

Postby Rody » Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:34 pm

Well, I have now finished the original series, and.... Um.... Well....
*Sigh*
Where do I begin?

Okay, I wanted to like this show; I really did. Ultimately, though, there were too many things I disliked about it; nearly all of which culminated in the last few episodes.
To start with, I have no idea what this show was trying to be. What started as a neat sci-fi story with giant monsters & mechs awkwardly transformed into a queer psychoanalysis of the main human characters.
The story was interesting, but the writing seemed sloppy. I liked the multiple layers to the plot, but none of the layers were really fleshed out well. Through most of the show, I was only given tantalizing tidbits that soon became more annoying than intriguing.
The pacing and tone were a little awkward as well. The first quarter is slow and somber, and the second quarter is fast and comical. The third quarter was more steady and serious, but the fourth quarter was downright hectic. These transitions happened rather suddenly, and it was jarring.
Also (I'm probably the only one bothered by this), I disliked the innuendo and other "suggestive content" that popped up during the series. I have never understood the appeal in this stuff, so it was one more thing to hurt the viewing experience for me.

All of this comes to a head in the last four or five episodes. There are so many questions raised but unanswered through the series, that now there's too much stuff trying to be explained too quickly - and then it's all just thrown away to focus instead on picking apart our protagonists' brains. I wouldn't mind the psychological stuff, except that my head was already reeling from trying to absorb all the "answers" that were just thrown at me in the previous episodes. In the end, any explanations and resolutions that were offered were lost on me. At the end of the last episode, I was literally clutching my head and thinking: "WHAT... ON... EARTH... did I just watch?!?!????" :dizzy:
I just don't know what to make of this show.


...So, now I'm wondering, do I even bother checking out any of the films?

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Re: Neon Genesis Evangelion

Postby Primevalgodzilla V2 » Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:34 pm

I agree with the general consensus here- the manga (yes, I prefer that format) starts out great with the characters being initially very enjoyable and badass Angel vs Eva stuff. After Zeruel, it starts going downhill and gets mind-numbingly depressing.
It is a simple story. There is nothing that brings me happiness. Be it believing in others or them believe in me, it did not matter.
What others called happiness simply did not bring me joy.


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Re: Neon Genesis Evangelion

Postby Bret » Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:10 pm

Have you guys noticed the type of shows they did after NGE? FLCL, Gurren lagaan, and Panty and Stocking with Garterbelt just to name a couple. It seems they wanted to create more happier shows after this, though Gurren lagaan's is still depressing.
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Re: Neon Genesis Evangelion

Postby Terrier » Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:11 pm

Plexton wrote:When I first saw the TV ending, I had no idea what to make of it, since it doesn't really end the story (it just gives closure to Shinji). Like many fans I couldn't wait to see the theatrical films...but I ultimately ended up liking the TV ending a lot more.

But every fan can judge which ending is better for themselves.


Actually, the second to last episode has all the characters interacting, they all having access to everyone's memories (It's like the whole anime is them seeing everything that happened and making sense out of it; suck it, 'Lost'). The beginning of the last episode (Made with lack of budget, time and support) says that it's because of the lack of time that the episode will consist of how Shinji acepted Instrumentality. It's implied that all the characters went through something similar (Yet personal) with a similar outcome.

While in the last two episodes we see Instrumentality from an inside perspective, in the movie "The End of Evangelion" we see Instrumentality from an outside perspective, and the outcome is very different due to certain characters' intervention. Oddly enough, I'll say the movie's ending is the "happy" one, at least everyone can choose what to do.

So what is Instrumentality, anyway? Remember how humans and all life on Earth come from the seed of life Lilith (The giant white humanoid whit the mask and that is always crucified down there)? And how all the angels come from the seed of life Adam (The fetus that Gendo inserts in his hand, that originally was that giant of light that caused the second impact)? Instrumentality is about combining both seeds of life into an ultimate being who will claim all life (Both from Lilith and Adam) as its blood (Since life originates from the blood of the seeds of life, wich is the genetic soup itself), and the souls of all living beings (Now assimilated) will become one and find peace in a forced paradise. Until then, the kids have to use the evas to stop the angels from reaching Adam and re-starting all life on Earth after them (Adam was the original seed of life for Earth, but Lilith accidentally came to Earth and became the seed of life instead).

So bassically, those last two episodes are the characters becoming the blood of the Lilith-Adam hybrid and acepting it. Again, the movie offers a different outcome, and the current reboot will offer a different one as well.

Yes, it is hard to get everything at first, but once one does it's awesome and unique.


Inferno Rodan wrote:But I honestly don't understand why people find Shinji and Asuka to be good characters. So what if they're "broken"? The "broken" teenage mecha pilot is nearly as old as the genre itself, and it's been done to death. At this point I find it MUCH more refreshing when we get a pilot that's generally happy and actually ENJOYS piloting their awesome war machine.


The second Rebuild movie has Mari Makinami... and she's an annoying Mary Sue. In fact, both Shinji and Asuka feel bland in comparison to the anime (Maybe it's the lack of time); I don't care if some people mistake that with "less annoying" or "more awesome", and I understand that people may prefer more optimistic mecha animes... But that is not Evangelion. These movies have exelent animation... big deal. What they really have in their favour is that they may explain many things and they will offer an alternative conclusion.
Last edited by Terrier on Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Neon Genesis Evangelion

Postby Grignr » Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:48 pm

A wise friend of mine sums up the Rebuild movies perfectly:

"Rebuild is really just a way for Gainax to make more money off Asuka and Rei's tits."
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Re: Neon Genesis Evangelion

Postby Rody » Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:12 am

^ With a description like THAT, I'm even less inclined to see the movies.

My curiosity might get the better of me again, though.

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Re: Neon Genesis Evangelion

Postby o.supreme » Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:32 am

NSZ wrote:And I highly recommend the Rebuild films. Less depressing, more crazy awesome.


Only 2 of the 4 rebuild Films have been released. There will be many chances for the depressing mind exploding stuff to come -_- .
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Re: Neon Genesis Evangelion

Postby Legionmaster » Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:33 am

Rody wrote:^ With a description like THAT, I'm even less inclined to see the movies.

Don't listen to him, it's not true. The first Rebuild movie is essentially exactly the same as the series up through the Ramiel battle. They mix some new stuff in, and graphically update the angels, but it's pretty straightforward (you should watch it just for Rebuild Ramiel. It will blow your mind with his awesomeness). The second one condenses almost the entire rest of the series (condenses=edits out). It drastically changes how the events occur and left us dangling from a hell of a cliff. I'm interested to see what they do with the following two films, since they're basically going to be entirely new ground for the story.

I'd definitely recommend watching End of Evangelion before jumping into the Rebuild films though. It clears up a lot of the "WTF-ness" of the series ending (OMFG I <3 TITLE CARDS), and also makes more sense when taken in dialogue with it. Plus, it might even disturb you more! Whee!
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Re: Neon Genesis Evangelion

Postby Grignr » Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:36 pm

Legionmaster wrote:
Rody wrote:Don't listen to him, it's not true. The first Rebuild movie is essentially exactly the same as the series up through the Ramiel battle. They mix some new stuff in, and graphically update the angels, but it's pretty straightforward (you should watch it just for Rebuild Ramiel. It will blow your mind with his awesomeness). The second one condenses almost the entire rest of the series (condenses=edits out). It drastically changes how the events occur and left us dangling from a hell of a cliff. I'm interested to see what they do with the following two films, since they're basically going to be entirely new ground for the story.

I'd definitely recommend watching End of Evangelion before jumping into the Rebuild films though. It clears up a lot of the "WTF-ness" of the series ending (OMFG I <3 TITLE CARDS), and also makes more sense when taken in dialogue with it. Plus, it might even disturb you more! Whee!

Yep, the Raigen Effect for Evangelion is out on full force.

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All Gainax is trying to do is milking their cashcow once more buy releasing their Rebuild movies, along with their damn toys and doujins.
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Re: Neon Genesis Evangelion

Postby Roman55 » Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:22 pm

Legionmaster wrote:Don't listen to him, it's not true. The first Rebuild movie is essentially exactly the same as the series up through the Ramiel battle. They mix some new stuff in, and graphically update the angels, but it's pretty straightforward (you should watch it just for Rebuild Ramiel. It will blow your mind with his awesomeness). The second one condenses almost the entire rest of the series (condenses=edits out). It drastically changes how the events occur and left us dangling from a hell of a cliff. I'm interested to see what they do with the following two films, since they're basically going to be entirely new ground for the story.

I'd definitely recommend watching End of Evangelion before jumping into the Rebuild films though. It clears up a lot of the "WTF-ness" of the series ending (OMFG I <3 TITLE CARDS), and also makes more sense when taken in dialogue with it. Plus, it might even disturb you more! Whee!
Nope.

Anno knows, as we all know, that he will never create another work as successful as Evangelion. And it makes a lot of people a lot of money, so it makes perfect sense for him to go back and milk Rei and Asuka’s tits one more time. Except this time he had the amazing creative genius to change Asuka’s last name and throw in a new pair of tits to milk.

For me, Evangelion 2.0: You Can (Not) Advance is less Lucas going back and adding in computer-generated Dewbacks to scenes on Tatooine, and more Lucas going back and redoing the three original Star Wars films in uncanny valley, high quality CG, but this time Han Solo has a big-breasted kid sister who tags along and Darth Vader has no back story beyond being a pawn of the Emperor.

Despite being an entirely new film, the pacing and editing makes it feel like a clip show, pathetically trying to cram in as many recognizable moments as possible without any regard to actually making a good film. Compounded with this gimped storytelling is the story boarding, which suggests the creative staff had no idea they were making an actual theatrical movie, as opposed to a TV series where they’re forced to throw in lots of animation-less slow pans over still images to save budget for the reasonably well-animated battle scenes. In the end we’re left with a lot of detailed still images, some decent animation and a film that looks like a TV show–just prettier.

Maybe the people who watched and enjoyed this film were able to turn their brains off and view it with absolutely no cynicism, but even as a guy who buys blatant merchandising enough to have a RX-78 and Zaku II salt and pepper shaker set on his dining room table, Evangelion 2.0: You Can (Not) Advance still managed to make me uncomfortable. It’s painfully clear that the new big-breasted, glasses wearing female Evangelion pilot was tossed in do to the reasoning that if they can sell a lot of figures of two female Evangelion pilots, they could sell even more of three Evangelion pilots. The same goes for the extra-skimpy brand new Plug Suit that Asuka wears and the new ridiculously stupid looking four-legged Evangelion. In a series so horribly overly merchandised like Evangelion, it’s impossible not to view a scene where Asuka cooks dinner wearing a sports bra and apron not as part of the narrative, but an opportunity to sell a new 6000yen PVC figure.

Maybe that wasn’t the intention of the creative staff, but after 10 years of whoring out Evangelion for every yen they could get out of fans, it’s tough to believe that Anno and the rest of the staff have any sort of real respect for the series except as source of another fat paycheck. This is particularly depressing considering Anno’s original intention was to have the Evangelion units designed such that they couldn’t be turned into toys, and to use classical music as the opening theme instead of a catchy, marketable pop song.

Watching this film was an incredibly uncomfortable experience for me, partially because I really liked the original TV series even with all its faults, and partially because I’d like to believe that there is some sort of creativity and artistic value in Japanese animation behind all the merchandising and sponsorship deals that are an unavoidable part of the industry. If we hold up Evangelion 2.0: You Can (Not) Advance as a major example of the modern state of Japanese animation, then no, there is no creativity. There is no intrinsic artistic value. One of the most respected anime directors of the last 25 years has created a film that is absolutely shameful, devoid of any appreciable worth except to those whose wallets get fatter with each purchase of this month’s new Rei and Asuka figures.

And I am done here.

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Re: Neon Genesis Evangelion

Postby Terrier » Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:06 pm

NSZ wrote:
Rody wrote: At the end of the last episode, I was literally clutching my head and thinking: "WHAT... ON... EARTH... did I just watch?!?!????" :dizzy:
I just don't know what to make of this show.


...So, now I'm wondering, do I even bother checking out any of the films?


That's what happens when the creator experiences an epic breakdown while the show is still in progress.


That's nothing. Some people actually sent death threats to Anno after the anime ending, wich just may have inspired how 'The End of Evangelion' turned out... the actual death thretas appear on screen for a few seconds...



Rody wrote:...So, now I'm wondering, do I even bother checking out any of the films?


While 'The End of Evangelion' is (Or was) the intended finale, there is a previous movie called 'Evangelion: Death and Rebirth', wich consists on the episodes (Minus the last two ones, wich didn't happen from here onwards) condensed into 70 minutes plus new footage, intended to be more explainatory (I think it's left more clear that Gendo inserted the Adam fetus he received in the episode that introduced Asuka into his hand), and the first minutes of 'The End of Evangelion'.

If after seeing 'The End...' you still have questions, I recommend this FAQ: http://www.evaotaku.com/html/evafaq.html


Then come the 'Rebuild' movies. A reboot that seems to be somehow connected to the original story[es], as if it was an alternative universe or a "reincarnation" or something...



You know, for all the merchandise Asuka and Rei get... I must say I have hardly ever seen figures of the Angels (Aside from Sachiel), and to think they are really varied and creative...

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Re: Neon Genesis Evangelion

Postby Plexton » Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:00 pm

Whoa, I have yet to see Evangelion 2.0: You Can (Not) Advance (even though I own it) because I was pretty indifferent to the first film, mostly due to it feeling like a clip show of the series (with updated visuals.) I don't know if you guys have ever seen Ultraman Towards the Future, but that was a movie which stitched together about 6 or so episodes of the Ultraman Great television series. Personally, I thought Ultraman Towards the future worked far better as a film because the simple story and the large number of character scenes to complement the action worked quite well for fun, light-hearted entertainment.

By contrast, Eva is a bleak, complex and often obtuse drama which barely had enough time to properly explore its ideas during the length of its 26-episode run. I understand, given its popularity, the desire to make it more accessible with a new series of films, but the series just wasn't designed for that purpose.

Having heard some less than positive things about Evangelion 2.0 from you guys, it might be a while yet before I check it out. The original series was actually quite light on 'fan service' (despite Misato's repeated promises), and that was fine with me since I absolutely hate underage fan service in anime (sadly, the main reason I decided to stop following anime.)

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Re: Neon Genesis Evangelion

Postby Bret » Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:08 pm

Plexton wrote:Having heard some less than positive things about Evangelion 2.0 from you guys, it might be a while yet before I check it out. The original series was actually quite light on 'fan service' (despite Misato's repeated promises), and that was fine with me since I absolutely hate underage fan service in anime (sadly, the main reason I decided to stop following anime.)


If you know what your looking for, it's easy to filter the series that has that stuff out.
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Re: Neon Genesis Evangelion

Postby Plexton » Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:26 pm

Hmm, well that's one vote for checking out 2.0!

One film I absolutely loved growing up was Patlabor 2; it is probably the most realistic bit of speculative fiction to feature giant robots that I've seen. During the 80s and 90s there were a lot of really big-budget anime films and television series, many of which featured very inspired stories. I've heard reports that, these days, studios have less money to spend on similar projects, which has led to an increase in shows designed to sell merchandise of female school girl characters and whatnot. I'm not going to judge people for liking that, but it's just not for me.

It is true though that it would be unfair to state that big-budget and thought provoking science fiction/fantasy animes have disappeared completely, but such projects are definitely in the minority.

Hmm, this discussion makes me feel like starting a thread talking about my favourite anime films. Of course, that would turn into a Hayao Miyazaki discussion pretty fast, lol!
Last edited by Plexton on Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Neon Genesis Evangelion

Postby Plexton » Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:30 pm

Well, I have to say that the extra shots of nude Rei in the first film have me worried about the second. Is there anything overly gratuitous?

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Re: Neon Genesis Evangelion

Postby Plexton » Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:34 pm

Yeah, but it's kind of become more of a tradition, if you know what I mean. :g2k: I pretty much just tolerate it at the best of times, but I'm so not interested if a writer has to throw breasts in my face to keep my attention.

Thinking back, I don't know how I made it through Gurren Lagann.


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