Toho Kingdom

Rhedosaurus wrote:How many times must this fail before Universal realizes that nobody wants this Dark Universe anymore?! Only Del Toro could have made this work, but considering how he was chased of Pacific Rim 2 and was turned down for his Creature of the Black Lagoon idea, I don't think he'd want to do it anymore. Just let this die.

Besides, hasn't the Godzillaverse made all this pointless considering how famous Godzilla himself, not to mention many of his buddies and foes, is?

Sadly they've given up on the Dark Universe concept, which is a shame because if they had ever actually planned it out right it could have been good, but they didn't and it wasn't. Now they're merely trying to revive each individual character with director vision focused stories, which could turn out pretty well with luck. I don't see why people want them to stop trying so badly, I want a good Dracula movie dammit, I haven't had a decent Dracula entry since 1999 (Dracula 2000). And it's been even longer since anyone's captured any magic with Frankenstein. And it's not because people can't make good movies with these characters any more, I know that much.

miguelnuva wrote:

MandaSaurus wrote:I'm up for a new Invisible Man HORROR movie. Just leave Kevin Bacon and all the mindless bimbos out of it, please...

That's Hollow Man

Yeah, but they may as well have called it "Invisible Man"...

mvp9056 wrote:

Rhedosaurus wrote:How many times must this fail before Universal realizes that nobody wants this Dark Universe anymore?! Only Del Toro could have made this work, but considering how he was chased of Pacific Rim 2 and was turned down for his Creature of the Black Lagoon idea, I don't think he'd want to do it anymore. Just let this die.

Besides, hasn't the Godzillaverse made all this pointless considering how famous Godzilla himself, not to mention many of his buddies and foes, is?

Del Toro isn't the only director capable of making good movies with these characters. And why would Godzilla's franchise prevent these movies from happening? They're two different franchises, two different aesthetics.

And once again they're discontinuing the Dark Universe and just making standalone movies. A lot of weird points you made in this this. I know some of ya'll don't see the point, but if you're arguing that stance atleast come up with reasons that make sense.

Because Godzilla and his friends and foes have overtaken the Universal monsters in fame. And Del Toro is by far the best fit. He grew up with the old Universal monsters more then anybody else, so for all intents and purposes, he is the only one that can make this work.

Rhedosaurus wrote:

mvp9056 wrote:

Rhedosaurus wrote:How many times must this fail before Universal realizes that nobody wants this Dark Universe anymore?! Only Del Toro could have made this work, but considering how he was chased of Pacific Rim 2 and was turned down for his Creature of the Black Lagoon idea, I don't think he'd want to do it anymore. Just let this die.

Besides, hasn't the Godzillaverse made all this pointless considering how famous Godzilla himself, not to mention many of his buddies and foes, is?

Del Toro isn't the only director capable of making good movies with these characters. And why would Godzilla's franchise prevent these movies from happening? They're two different franchises, two different aesthetics.

And once again they're discontinuing the Dark Universe and just making standalone movies. A lot of weird points you made in this this. I know some of ya'll don't see the point, but if you're arguing that stance atleast come up with reasons that make sense.

Because Godzilla and his friends and foes have overtaken the Universal monsters in fame. And Del Toro is by far the best fit. He grew up with the old Universal monsters more then anybody else, so for all intents and purposes, he is the only one that can make this work.

Um are you talking about the general audience or fans in particular. Because most people have no idea who most Godzilla monsters even are. The Universal monsters are more famous than the vast majority of Godzilla monsters, as their image and likeness permeates pop culture; can you say the same for Bagan, Biollante, Megaguirus, or Destroyah? I don't think so.

And how can you say other people didn't grow up with the Universal monsters as much as Del Toro? For many filmmakers they were their first introduction to horror, and they've inspired many of the filmmakers we have today. John Carpenter, Joe Dante, Peter Jackson, Stephen Sommers, James Gunn, Mike Dougherty etc. And not just filmmakers, but many artists as well. Del Toro can still make a movie with one of the monsters, since Universal is finally opening up to individual directors' visions. But if he doesn't and he or anyone else wants to continue to complain, then he has no grounds to IMHO. They said they've met with a number of prominent creative directors, and I don't see anything wrong with that.

Rhedosaurus wrote:

mvp9056 wrote:

Rhedosaurus wrote:How many times must this fail before Universal realizes that nobody wants this Dark Universe anymore?! Only Del Toro could have made this work, but considering how he was chased of Pacific Rim 2 and was turned down for his Creature of the Black Lagoon idea, I don't think he'd want to do it anymore. Just let this die.

Besides, hasn't the Godzillaverse made all this pointless considering how famous Godzilla himself, not to mention many of his buddies and foes, is?

Del Toro isn't the only director capable of making good movies with these characters. And why would Godzilla's franchise prevent these movies from happening? They're two different franchises, two different aesthetics.

And once again they're discontinuing the Dark Universe and just making standalone movies. A lot of weird points you made in this this. I know some of ya'll don't see the point, but if you're arguing that stance atleast come up with reasons that make sense.

Because Godzilla and his friends and foes have overtaken the Universal monsters in fame. And Del Toro is by far the best fit. He grew up with the old Universal monsters more then anybody else, so for all intents and purposes, he is the only one that can make this work.

Even if I wanted to debate Godzilla and his foes as having overtaken Dracula and Frankenstein in terms of fame (and I could definitely argue the point), what would Godzilla being more famous have to do with whether or not a Universal Monster movie should or shouldn't be made? Batman and Spider-Man are or at least were more famous than Guardians of the Galaxy or Wonder Woman. Movies get made, regardless of if there are other properties more famous out there.

I'll also disagree with del Toro being the only one who could make a Universal Monster movie work. Sure, he'd be perfect for it, but other directors could do equally as well or at least good enough. Just takes the right person with the right vision for the right character at the right time, and that could be anyone. Either way, as always, I'm still just hoping I get some decent movies out of this, whether it be Wolf Man, Dracula, Frankenstein, the Mummy or the Invisible Man, I just hope I get something worthwhile and new with these characters. Because as much as I love the old films, I've already seen most of them multiple times now. I would love to expand my collection some more with these characters.

If growing up with the material is all it takes to be the perfect fit for the director's chair, then I'm as qualified as Del Toro is.

Also HEAVY at thinking Godzilla and friends are anywhere near eclipsing the popularity of Frankenstein, Dracula, and co.

UltramanGoji wrote:If growing up with the material is all it takes to be the perfect fit for the director's chair, then I'm as qualified as Del Toro is.

Also HEAVY at thinking Godzilla and friends are anywhere near eclipsing the popularity of Frankenstein, Dracula, and co.

Godzilla himself is right up there with them. Maybe even bigger because he could at least hold onto numerous franchises. But the rest I agree.

_JNavs_ wrote:

UltramanGoji wrote:If growing up with the material is all it takes to be the perfect fit for the director's chair, then I'm as qualified as Del Toro is.

Also HEAVY at thinking Godzilla and friends are anywhere near eclipsing the popularity of Frankenstein, Dracula, and co.

Godzilla himself is right up there with them. Maybe even bigger because he could at least hold onto numerous franchises. But the rest I agree.

Yeah, Godzilla and Kong I can see but Mothra, Rodan, etc? That's insane.

UltramanGoji wrote:

_JNavs_ wrote:

UltramanGoji wrote:If growing up with the material is all it takes to be the perfect fit for the director's chair, then I'm as qualified as Del Toro is.

Also HEAVY at thinking Godzilla and friends are anywhere near eclipsing the popularity of Frankenstein, Dracula, and co.

Godzilla himself is right up there with them. Maybe even bigger because he could at least hold onto numerous franchises. But the rest I agree.

Yeah, Godzilla and Kong I can see but Mothra, Rodan, etc? That's insane.

Mothra and Rodan have been around for a long time as well. And Ghidorah and Mechagodzilla are both quite well known.

Right but...bigger than Frankenstein, Dracula, etc.? No way.

Godzilla, Kong and the other Monsterverse monsters are legendary, but the Dark Universe monsters are just as Universally known.





Nah, but for real, Dracula and Frankenstein occupy a completely different niche then Godzilla. A shared universe can and did work.

Rhedosaurus wrote: Mothra and Rodan have been around for a long time as well. And Ghidorah and Mechagodzilla are both quite well known.

That doesn't answer anyone's question. HOW are they more popular than any of the Universal monsters? What are your sources? Where's your proof? I've seen you say the same thing about another subject and you've never said how Godzilla is more popular than anything else.

I guarantee if you pulled random people from the public, more of them would say they know Dracula or the Frankenstein monster over King Ghidorah or Rodan, before KotM at least. We're talking about some of the most famous, not only monsters, but characters of all time, it's a bold claim to say any monster is more famous than them.

GodzillavsZilla wrote:

Rhedosaurus wrote: Mothra and Rodan have been around for a long time as well. And Ghidorah and Mechagodzilla are both quite well known.

That doesn't answer anyone's question. HOW are they more popular than any of the Universal monsters? What are your sources? Where's your proof? I've seen you say the same thing about another subject and you've never said how Godzilla is more popular than anything else.

I guarantee if you pulled random people from the public, more of them would say they know Dracula or the Frankenstein monster over King Ghidorah or Rodan, before KotM at least. We're talking about some of the most famous, not only monsters, but characters of all time, it's a bold claim to say any monster is more famous than them.

Based on what I've seen not only among the GA, but in the FB movie groups I'm in, as well as the one JP site I'm still a part of. Godzilla and his franchise are mire popular because Godzilla has had at least 2 movies per decade, far more then most of the Universal monsters have. Not only that, but based on the sites, more people like Godzilla and his franchise then with Uni's monsters, and the Dark Universe.

Rhedosaurus wrote:

GodzillavsZilla wrote:

Rhedosaurus wrote: Mothra and Rodan have been around for a long time as well. And Ghidorah and Mechagodzilla are both quite well known.

That doesn't answer anyone's question. HOW are they more popular than any of the Universal monsters? What are your sources? Where's your proof? I've seen you say the same thing about another subject and you've never said how Godzilla is more popular than anything else.

I guarantee if you pulled random people from the public, more of them would say they know Dracula or the Frankenstein monster over King Ghidorah or Rodan, before KotM at least. We're talking about some of the most famous, not only monsters, but characters of all time, it's a bold claim to say any monster is more famous than them.

Based on what I've seen not only among the GA, but in the FB movie groups I'm in, as well as the one JP site I'm still a part of. Godzilla and his franchise are mire popular because Godzilla has had at least 2 movies per decade, far more then most of the Universal monsters have. Not only that, but based on the sites, more people like Godzilla and his franchise then with Uni's monsters, and the Dark Universe.

If you're part of fan groups and facebook groups that constantly talk about this stuff, then it's no wonder those people are very aware of Godzilla and co. But still, I doubt many in the general audience know more about Biollante, Bagan, and Ebirah etc.

The Universal monsters are simply more famous than the vast majority of Godzilla creatures to the GA. If you're talking popularity (which is different than fame) amongst the GA you could argue that for Godzilla himself, but even then the Universal monsters would be more popular because the majority of Godzilla monsters are obscure.

And just because Godzilla's franchise is going strong now, that doesn't mean it'll remain that way. Popularity for different things ebbs and flows at different times. When these new monster movies come, and if they're successful as well, the pendulum could swing in their favor. But all that said, it shouldn't even be a competition between things that have very little overlap between them- the pop culture landscape is big enough for these two different concepts to coexist.

The sad thing is, it could've worked, it does have potential. It just needed to be put in the right hands with enough t and effort. Personally, I would've started with the Hunchback of Notre Dame.

SonOfGorgo wrote:The sad thing is, it could've worked, it does have potential. It just needed to be put in the right hands with enough t and effort. Personally, I would've started with the Hunchback of Notre Dame.

He counts but I don't know if he would work because when you say Hunchback of Notre Dame most people think of the Disney filck and now that they're doing a live action remake of that I'd say the chances of the general audience linking that story to the classic Universal Monsters are slim.

cloverfan98 wrote:when you say Hunchback of Notre Dame most people think of the Disney filck

Most people in what age group?

In general, most people associate the Hunchback story with the Disney adaption and very little think of it in association with the Universal Monsters.

UltramanGoji wrote:In general, most people associate the Hunchback story with the Disney adaption and very little think of it in association with the Universal Monsters.

It's a famous novel, studied in schools to this day, which has been adapted to film numerous times.

I am sure that for people who were kids when the Disney movie came out, that is the immediate association. For people over thirty or maybe thirty-five, though? Unlikely.

That's why I said "In general" and didn't specify an age-group. In an overall "average" i.e. the common man's perspective, most people will associate the story with the Disney film. You don't have to have been a kid when it came out to know about it, Disney adaptions of story almost always transcend the original.

The average person does not know about the novel or any of the other film adaptions.