King Kong Tribute Thread (THE REAL KING KONG!)

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Shhh! The Octopus
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Re: King Kong Tribute Thread (THE REAL KING KONG!)

Postby Shhh! The Octopus » Fri Jul 26, 2019 3:12 pm

Here's that article in regards to the Queen Kong lawsuit.
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Re: King Kong Tribute Thread (THE REAL KING KONG!)

Postby johnboy3434 » Fri Jul 26, 2019 3:18 pm

Pkmatrix wrote:The important point as far as the courts were concerned was that the Lovelace novel was copyrighted first, and that copyright had not been properly renewed within the required 28 years. Back then, copyright was not automatic. Whichever work is copyrighted first is legally the originating work, and all other copyrighted works that follow are derivative of that work.

If this happened today, the fact it was adapted from an existing screenplay for a film that was in post-production set for release just three months later would matter and none of this would've happened. Universal would've lost.

But, that's not how the law worked in 1976. Back then, who filed what paperwork when and whether or not it was filed properly was EVERYTHING.

That's why Kong is public domain.


Isn't that still how it works (minus the paper-filing)? For example, the first item of Star Wars fiction to be released to the public was the novelization of A New Hope by George Lucas (ghostwritten by Alan Dean Foster), which was released in late 1976, well before the film was finished, even though it was a derivative work of said film. Wouldn't the story and characters of A New Hope become public domain when the novelization lapses on 1 January 2072 rather than when the film lapses on 1 January 2073?

Shhh! The Octopus wrote:Here's that article in regards to the Queen Kong lawsuit.
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Well, I agree with RKO in one instance: the script of Queen Kong was absolutely godawful.
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Re: King Kong Tribute Thread (THE REAL KING KONG!)

Postby Pkmatrix » Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:56 pm

Shhh! The Octopus wrote:Despite that DDL and RKO successfully sued the company behind Queen Kong stopping it's threatical release and threatened a $1.5 M lawsuit against Worldwide Entertainment forcing them to change the name of The New King Kong to A*p*e and put the tagine Not to be confused with King Kong on the poster and trailer. :lol:

Go figure.


Yep, that's no surprise. That's something big media companies do a LOT, that's why you see so many fraudulent copyright claims against Youtube videos for things that fall squarely into fair use territory.

Sony spent DECADES claiming they owned the rights to the song "Happy Birthday To You" (did you ever wonder why restaurants, until fairly recently, never sang that song when they came to give a birthday dessert?), demanding steep licensing fees and royalties every time the song was used commercially anywhere. Then, a couple of years ago, a group of researchers making a documentary stumbled upon proof that the song was public domain, had always been public domain, and that Sony had been lying. Sony was brought to court and forced to admit it. Yet, they still sue people and issue copyright strikes on Youtube.

Hell, it's what Universal v. Nintendo was too. Universal thought they could seize the rights to Donkey Kong by claiming trademark infringement, despite having proved a decade earlier the character was public domain and nobody had trademark rights. Nintendo fought back, though, and won.

The only reason RKO still doesn't try suing over King Kong is that they're so small a studio now, most people don't realize they still exist and they can't afford to try scaring people off anymore. (Well, that and the even more inconvenient fact that they don't own the rights to the movie anymore, AT&T does.)

I like to describe Kong's status as an "inconvenient truth", because once it was proved in court everyone seems to have regretted it since and done everything they could to pretend like it never happened.

johnboy3434 wrote:Isn't that still how it works (minus the paper-filing)? For example, the first item of Star Wars fiction to be released to the public was the novelization of A New Hope by George Lucas (ghostwritten by Alan Dean Foster), which was released in late 1976, well before the film was finished, even though it was a derivative work of said film. Wouldn't the story and characters of A New Hope become public domain when the novelization lapses on 1 January 2072 rather than when the film lapses on 1 January 2073?


Now it's based on who wrote what first. As an example: even though the novelization of KOTM was released before the movie, the movie is the originating work because the book is based on the screenplay and the copyright on the screenplay was automatically created the moment it was written down.

For Star Wars, I didn't realize the novelization was published that much earlier. Probably 2072, I guess?

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Re: King Kong Tribute Thread (THE REAL KING KONG!)

Postby Shhh! The Octopus » Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:14 am

Just do this and you'll be OK from any potential lawsuits.. :lol:
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Re: King Kong Tribute Thread (THE REAL KING KONG!)

Postby Pkmatrix » Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:31 am

Shhh! The Octopus wrote:Just do this and you'll be OK from any potential lawsuits.. :lol:
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:lol:

Although, wasn't it reported at the time that that was one of Universal's requests when Legendary moved the project over to Warner Brothers? To never call their Kong "King Kong"? That was supposed to be why Skull Island was so coy about using the phrase, 'cause apparently Universal still intends to do another Kong movie of their own at some point down the line and wants to still use the title "King Kong".

I've not yet gotten to the part about Kong: Skull Island in this book, but I remember reading elsewhere that the original plan for the movie (when it was just titled "Skull Island") was for it to be a prequel to the 2005 movie set during World War I before Vogt-Roberts was brought on and changed it to be a new standalone film set in the '70s.
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Re: King Kong Tribute Thread (THE REAL KING KONG!)

Postby Pkmatrix » Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:32 am

Just finished the chapter in LeMay's book on The Legend of King Kong.

Firstly: WOW.

I didn't realize how far into pre-production The Legend of King Kong had gotten, it sounds like it wasn't canceled until late 1976. With RKO out of the picture, Universal and Paramount came to an agreement that Universal's movie would come out a year after the De Laurentis movie but with how far along they were Universal ended up stopping production, supposedly a "temporary" delay, before finally giving it the axe.

Which really IS a shame, 'cause now that I'm reading this summary this would've been MUCH better than the DDL movie. It was going to be set in 1932, directed by Joseph Sargent (The Taking of Pelham 123), and would star Peter Falk as Denham (already cast), Robert Redford as Jack Driscoll (he was in talks, their second choice was Nick Nolte), and Susan Blakely as Ann Darrow; with Jim Danforth in charge of stop motion effects. There was apparently a lot of back and forth going on over how to portray Kong: Danforth wanted stop motion (obviously), but the studio and Sargent wanted suitmation, and were planning to cast body builder Franco Columbu (best known as the "Future Terminator" in the opening of The Terminator) to play Kong (though they'd also done auditions with Bob Burns). They'd even manage to snag the rights to the original movie's musical score from the Max Steiner estate.

Like, wow, this cast and crew is SO MUCH BETTER. And the story is awesome, very similar to the 1933 movie but since they were basing it on the Lovelace novel and making a point to not infringe on RKO's copyrights they were going to include a totally different set of dinosaurs and monsters so the island sequences are similar but at the same time new.

Also, I've NOT been giving LeMay enough credit - I figured if he wasn't going to talk about the Kong public domain issue early in the book in the chapter on the novel, he wasn't going to talk about it at all.

Not so!

He goes into it almost immediately during the chapter on Universal's The Legend of King Kong. As it turns out, I was wrong about who discovered Kong's status and when: it wasn't Universal's lawyers during the lawsuits, it was JIM DANFORTH.

The Legend of King Kong started off because in the aftermath of Hammer's second attempt at a remake falling through, Danforth decided he wasn't ready to abandon it and started pitching it to Hollywood studios (he had clout now because he'd just won an Academy Award for When Dinosaurs Ruled the Earth). He went to RKO, who said "no" like they had previously to Hammer because they still would only agree to doing sequels, which Danforth thought was disrespectful, so Danforth started doing research to find out just exactly what RKO had the rights to. That's when he found out the novel was copyrighted first, that the copyright on that had been held by Cooper not RKO, and that Cooper had failed to renew the copyright in 1960 so now the character and story were public domain.

The book even has the same line, quoted from Danforth, about how because of the laws at the time due to the order of copyrights the novelization was the original work and the screenplay the derivative work even though the screenplay was written first! :lol: My apologies, Mr. LeMay!

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Re: King Kong Tribute Thread (THE REAL KING KONG!)

Postby SickleFeather » Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:48 am

In my own words, The Legend of King Kong was to Kong fans what Debont's Godzilla was to us, an unfortunate loss of what could have been.

Now that I mention it, I'm finding some weird parallels between Delaurentiis's King Kong '76 & Emmerich's Godzilla '98.
It's funny how both of the original concepts (Godzilla 1994/The Legend of King Kong) were both more faithful to the characters than what would later become those movies.
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Re: King Kong Tribute Thread (THE REAL KING KONG!)

Postby Shhh! The Octopus » Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:20 am

Ray Morton goes into specific detail about the lawsuits in his book King Kong: The History of A Movie Icon. I'm assuming that is where LeMay got his information from.

Yes I believe you're right about the Universal/LP situation in regards to Kong:Skull Island. The main reasons they let LP take the project to WB is that they didn't want to spend the kinda money that LP was asking for (they didn't want to go higher than $120M. WB ended up spending $185M making the film!), and thier priority was the upcoming Dark Universe films they were planning so this project wasn't a priority for them.

As for the Legend of King Kong I wasn't fan of the human looking Kong.

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Re: King Kong Tribute Thread (THE REAL KING KONG!)

Postby tyrantgoji » Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:23 am

Shhh! The Octopus wrote:As for the Legend of King Kong I wasn't fan of the human looking Kong.

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was this even final? i keep hearing that this may have been the final design if the film ever came out but i kinda doubt it.

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Re: King Kong Tribute Thread (THE REAL KING KONG!)

Postby Pkmatrix » Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:34 am

Shhh! The Octopus wrote:Ray Morton goes into specific detail about the lawsuits in his book King Kong: The History of A Movie Icon. I'm assuming that is where LeMay got his information from.

Yes I believe you're right about the Universal/LP situation in regards to Kong:Skull Island. The main reasons they let LP take the project to WB is that they didn't want to spend the kinda money that LP was asking for (they didn't want to go higher than $120M. WB ended up spending $185M making the film!), and thier priority was the upcoming Dark Universe films they were planning so this project wasn't a priority for them.

As for the Legend of King Kong I wasn't fan of the human looking Kong.

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That picture's in LeMay's book too...that, honestly, is the biggest hangup I've got with the thing from what they've described: the studio was really gunning for suitmation, but whereas DDL when all the way with it Universal's execs didn't want to use a mask and were pushing for the to do Kong's face with just makeup effects. I keep trying to picture it...geez, it'd have looked WEIRD. It'd be the big downside to what otherwise sounds like a great movie.

While Morton's book is in the bibliography, the chapter on The Legend of King Kong mostly cites Jim Danforth's book Dinosaurs, Dragons, & Drama: The Odyssey of a Trick Filmmaker and The Battle for King Kong, an article published in New York Magazine in February 1976.

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Re: King Kong Tribute Thread (THE REAL KING KONG!)

Postby Ivo-goji » Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:57 pm

Humanoid depictions of Kong seem to be something different artists come back to a lot. That concept art looks like the Kong design in Gods of Skull Island.
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Re: King Kong Tribute Thread (THE REAL KING KONG!)

Postby MandaSaurus » Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:12 pm

johnboy3434 wrote:
Shhh! The Octopus wrote:Despite that DDL and RKO successfully sued the company behind Queen Kong stopping it's threatical release and threatened a $1.5 M lawsuit against Worldwide Entertainment forcing them to change the name of The New King Kong to A*p*e and put the tagine Not to be confused with King Kong on the poster and trailer. :lol:

Go figure.


A lot of IP lawsuits exist only to frighten people away with the specter of huge legal bills. If our system was more punitive toward wealthy entities that file lawsuits and end up losing, and each case was required to reach a precedent-setting judgment instead of allowing the parties to cop out with a settlement, you'd see a surprising increase in the amount of unlicensed works that the corporations would let go unmolested.


I saw A*P*E in 3D in a movie theater. The audience was laughing their asses off!

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Re: King Kong Tribute Thread (THE REAL KING KONG!)

Postby Pkmatrix » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:20 pm

MandaSaurus wrote:
johnboy3434 wrote:
Shhh! The Octopus wrote:Despite that DDL and RKO successfully sued the company behind Queen Kong stopping it's threatical release and threatened a $1.5 M lawsuit against Worldwide Entertainment forcing them to change the name of The New King Kong to A*p*e and put the tagine Not to be confused with King Kong on the poster and trailer. :lol:

Go figure.


A lot of IP lawsuits exist only to frighten people away with the specter of huge legal bills. If our system was more punitive toward wealthy entities that file lawsuits and end up losing, and each case was required to reach a precedent-setting judgment instead of allowing the parties to cop out with a settlement, you'd see a surprising increase in the amount of unlicensed works that the corporations would let go unmolested.


I saw A*P*E in 3D in a movie theater. The audience was laughing their asses off!


I believe it, the movie is HILARIOUSLY bad. :lol:

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Re: King Kong Tribute Thread (THE REAL KING KONG!)

Postby Living Corpse » Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:24 pm

I sometimes wonder if Cooper had been let in on the loop from the start instead of finding out later King Kong vs Godzilla was being made behind his back, if he would have been in favor or against the concept of making Kong an even bigger monster and have him fight the dinosaur monster. I never heard his feelings about the concept itself, just the rightfully pissed off that it was made behind his back. Then again the dude made King Kong in part because he wanted to see a gorilla fight a komodo dragon so he might have been up for it.

Pkmatrix wrote:
MandaSaurus wrote:
johnboy3434 wrote:
A lot of IP lawsuits exist only to frighten people away with the specter of huge legal bills. If our system was more punitive toward wealthy entities that file lawsuits and end up losing, and each case was required to reach a precedent-setting judgment instead of allowing the parties to cop out with a settlement, you'd see a surprising increase in the amount of unlicensed works that the corporations would let go unmolested.


I saw A*P*E in 3D in a movie theater. The audience was laughing their asses off!


I believe it, the movie is HILARIOUSLY bad. :lol:


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Re: King Kong Tribute Thread (THE REAL KING KONG!)

Postby Shhh! The Octopus » Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:24 am

Living Corpse wrote:if he would have been in favor or against the concept of making Kong an even bigger monster and have him fight the dinosaur monster.


Trust me he would have been in favor. Cooper always wanted Kong to be gigantic. During filming he would always manipulate Kongs size. If you really pay attention you'll see Kong fluctuate in size numerous times throughout the course of the film. To quote Orville Goldner from The Making of King Kong It was always his conception of the beast that he should appear as gigantic as possible.

In fact after Kong wrapped production near Christmas 1932, the crew gave Cooper a signed Christmas Card.
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Its kinda hard to see but there is a drawing of Coop at the bottom looking up at Kong and saying "He's Not Big Enough!"
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So yeah I dont Coops would have a problem with a supersized Kong.

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Re: King Kong Tribute Thread (THE REAL KING KONG!)

Postby Pkmatrix » Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:25 am

Shhh! The Octopus wrote:
Living Corpse wrote:if he would have been in favor or against the concept of making Kong an even bigger monster and have him fight the dinosaur monster.


Trust me he would have been in favor. Cooper always wanted Kong to be gigantic. During filming he would always manipulate Kongs size. If you really pay attention you'll see Kong fluctuate in size numerous times throughout the course of the film. To quote Orville Goldner from The Making of King Kong It was always his conception of the beast that he should appear as gigantic as possible.

In fact after Kong wrapped production near Christmas 1932, the crew gave Cooper a signed Christmas Card.
Image

Its kinda hard to see but there is a drawing of Coop at the bottom looking up at Kong and saying "He's Not Big Enough!"
Image

So yeah I dont Coops would have a problem with a supersized Kong.


:lol:

I've seen that picture before, I'd never noticed the tiny Cooper! XD

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Re: King Kong Tribute Thread (THE REAL KING KONG!)

Postby Shhh! The Octopus » Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:40 am

Pkmatrix wrote:I'd never noticed the tiny Cooper! XD

Don't say that to his face unless you want a mouthful of teeth! :D
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Seriously he was a little insecure about his short stature. He made up for it with his tenacity, toughness and hotheadedness though.
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Re: King Kong Tribute Thread (THE REAL KING KONG!)

Postby Living Corpse » Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:48 am

Shhh! The Octopus wrote:
Living Corpse wrote:if he would have been in favor or against the concept of making Kong an even bigger monster and have him fight the dinosaur monster.


Trust me he would have been in favor. Cooper always wanted Kong to be gigantic. During filming he would always manipulate Kongs size. If you really pay attention you'll see Kong fluctuate in size numerous times throughout the course of the film. To quote Orville Goldner from The Making of King Kong It was always his conception of the beast that he should appear as gigantic as possible.

In fact after Kong wrapped production near Christmas 1932, the crew gave Cooper a signed Christmas Card.
Image

Its kinda hard to see but there is a drawing of Coop at the bottom looking up at Kong and saying "He's Not Big Enough!"
Image

So yeah I dont Coops would have a problem with a supersized Kong.


So he probably would have been up for a fight with Godzilla. Cool to know, cause even today I hear people complain he was too big in K:SI and that fighting Godzilla goes against the spirit of the original story or something, and I'm sitting here thinking "I don't know the man, but this is the same man who wanted to make a movie where King Kong goes into outer space, not some random director years later, but the same guy who made him in the first place."

When you really get down to it, Kong fighting Godzilla is just Kong fighting the T-Rex only the T-Rex has usable arms and fire breath like a dragon. Funny to think a monster who got retroactively made to be kaiju sized in later films was what Cooper wanted originally.

Now would he have allowed the electricity power or just keep Kong's powers as "he stupid big and smart". :lol:

Shhh! The Octopus wrote:
Pkmatrix wrote:I'd never noticed the tiny Cooper! XD

Don't say that to his face unless you want a mouthful of teeth!
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Seriously he was a little insecure about his short stature. He made up for it with his tenacity, toughness and hotheadedness though.


Man, I don't know much about the man but the whole legal battle over Kong's rights, I feel for him. That was his baby and the situation ended up like he was stuck in a custody battle after a nasty divorce. He sounds like he was a great guy. Regardless of who actually was legally right in Kong's ownership, I feel morally the right thing would have been to give him back to Cooper. Sadly law and right thing to do are not always on the same page.
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Re: King Kong Tribute Thread (THE REAL KING KONG!)

Postby Shhh! The Octopus » Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:01 am

Living Corpse wrote:When you really get down to it, Kong fighting Godzilla is just Kong fighting the T-Rex


Right, a big reptile is a big reptile. The Komondo Dragon became the Tyrannosaurus Rex, so why not take the next step and have the T-Rex become Godzilla?

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Re: King Kong Tribute Thread (THE REAL KING KONG!)

Postby Living Corpse » Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:32 am

I'm really curious about the unmade Kong in Space film, do we have more details on what that film was gonna be about, like was Kong gonna wear space suit on the Moon defending a colony from aliens or be on an alien planet with breathable air, or is Kong going into outer space really all we know/as far as the concept ever went?
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