The Official Star Wars Saga Thread

[LegendZilla]

Does anyone think that it's strange that of all the long-running franchises in existence, Star Wars has been unaffected by the trend of reboots/remakes?

[UltramanGoji]

Does anyone think that it's strange that of all the long-running franchises in existence, Star Wars has been unaffected by the trend of reboots/remakes?

I don't think it's really all that strange. Star Wars is one of the few original franchises that sold itself on being one long connecting story. It wasn't a book adaptation or a series of different films under one banner, it was all one big thing from one single person. It's a wholly unique entity in film history.

[LegendZilla]

It wasn't a book adaptation or a series of different films under one banner, it was all one big thing from one single person. It's a wholly unique entity in film history.

I won't go as far as saying it's a wholly unique entity, but a rarity for sure.

[miguelnuva]

The fact that they destroyed an entire aleady-existing saga just to retcon the fact that Chewbacca had died and they wanted to have him back.

That is...absolutely not the sole reason the EU was axed and it's pretty disingenuous and downright silly to imply it.

It's not the sole reason but when the TFA came out a lot of people for some reason was using that as one of the more important reasons.

[mikelcho]

The fact that they destroyed an entire aleady-existing saga just to retcon the fact that Chewbacca had died and they wanted to have him back.

That is...absolutely not the sole reason the EU was axed and it's pretty disingenuous and downright silly to imply it.

Sorry, but I don't think I said that was the only reason, just a major one. I thought I heard that Chewbacca had died heroically saving the lives of his friends in one of the Star Wars novels.

Btw, what were the other reasons they retconned an already perfect storyline that, imo, needed no retconning in the first place?

[eabaker]

Btw, what were the other reasons they retconned an already perfect storyline that, imo, needed no retconning in the first place?

They were making a series of movies for a wide audience, most of whom had no conception of the Expanded Universe, and weren't going to go out and catch up on more than 20 years of novels and comic books just so that they could go see a new space movie.

Also, what reason would they have to shackle the filmmakers to that continuity? They were creating an opportunity (not always one fully taken advantage of) to explore new and exciting cinematic directions for the franchise.

[miguelnuva]

Btw, what were the other reasons they retconned an already perfect storyline that, imo, needed no retconning in the first place?

They were making a series of movies for a wide audience, most of whom had no conception of the Expanded Universe, and weren't going to go out and catch up on more than 20 years of novels and comic books just so that they could go see a new space movie.

Also, what reason would they have to shackle the filmmakers to that continuity? They were creating an opportunity (not always one fully taken advantage of) to explore new and exciting cinematic directions for the franchise.

The sequel trilogy honestly could have gone in the same place with minor changes had they set it 50 years after Rotj instead of 30.

Kylo being Leia and Han's grandson would have been the only change.

All three trilogies have huge Expanded content but all you really need to see is the start of each Trilogy. I'd argue TPM and TFA are almost as good of entry points as ANH was depending on where the person started.

[mikelcho]

Btw, what were the other reasons they retconned an already perfect storyline that, imo, needed no retconning in the first place?

They were making a series of movies for a wide audience, most of whom had no conception of the Expanded Universe, and weren't going to go out and catch up on more than 20 years of novels and comic books just so that they could go see a new space movie.

Also, what reason would they have to shackle the filmmakers to that continuity? They were creating an opportunity (not always one fully taken advantage of) to explore new and exciting cinematic directions for the franchise.

Oh, I see. Thanks for setting me straight.

[Spirit Ghidorah 2010]

Btw, what were the other reasons they retconned an already perfect storyline that, imo, needed no retconning in the first place?

They were making a series of movies for a wide audience, most of whom had no conception of the Expanded Universe, and weren't going to go out and catch up on more than 20 years of novels and comic books just so that they could go see a new space movie.

Also, what reason would they have to shackle the filmmakers to that continuity? They were creating an opportunity (not always one fully taken advantage of) to explore new and exciting cinematic directions for the franchise.

The sequel trilogy honestly could have gone in the same place with minor changes had they set it 50 years after Rotj instead of 30.

Kylo being Leia and Han's grandson would have been the only change.

All three trilogies have huge Expanded content but all you really need to see is the start of each Trilogy. I'd argue TPM and TFA are almost as good of entry points as ANH was depending on where the person started.

If the EU is so inconsequential that a few minor changes would make TFA canonically mesh with it, then it makes sense to just start over from a clean slate going forward to enable greater creative freedom in future projects.

[miguelnuva]

They were making a series of movies for a wide audience, most of whom had no conception of the Expanded Universe, and weren't going to go out and catch up on more than 20 years of novels and comic books just so that they could go see a new space movie.

Also, what reason would they have to shackle the filmmakers to that continuity? They were creating an opportunity (not always one fully taken advantage of) to explore new and exciting cinematic directions for the franchise.

The sequel trilogy honestly could have gone in the same place with minor changes had they set it 50 years after Rotj instead of 30.

Kylo being Leia and Han's grandson would have been the only change.

All three trilogies have huge Expanded content but all you really need to see is the start of each Trilogy. I'd argue TPM and TFA are almost as good of entry points as ANH was depending on where the person started.

If the EU is so inconsequential that a few minor changes would make TFA canonically mesh with it, then it makes sense to just start over from a clean slate going forward to enable greater creative freedom in future projects.

Which is why Disney did it that way. I'm just saying they didn't have to throw out Legends but it was always the best option to throw out everything but the 6 films and clone wars.

[Spuro]

Does anyone think that it's strange that of all the long-running franchises in existence, Star Wars has been unaffected by the trend of reboots/remakes?

What do you mean? The Force Awakens was a remake of the original!

[LegendZilla]

Does anyone think that it's strange that of all the long-running franchises in existence, Star Wars has been unaffected by the trend of reboots/remakes?

What do you mean? The Force Awakens was a remake of the original!

Only at the bare bones, but the film still presents itself as a sequel to pre-existing works, so no. Its similarities to A New Hope stems from laziness, not a desire to remake it.

[miguelnuva]

A remake of the OT would be the only remake that I would actually hate.

[eabaker]

Its similarities to A New Hope stems from laziness, not a desire to remake it.

Hard disagree. Those similarities were a calculated means to appeal to the audiences nostalgia for the originals, after so much vocal complaint about the failure of the PT to recapture the tone and energy of the OT. And in terms of popular audience response, it seems to have been a pretty successful attempt.

[Chrispy_G]

Its similarities to A New Hope stems from laziness, not a desire to remake it.

Hard disagree. Those similarities were a calculated means to appeal to the audiences nostalgia for the originals, after so much vocal complaint about the failure of the PT to recapture the tone and energy of the OT. And in terms of popular audience response, it seems to have been a pretty successful attempt.

Only initially, after the first month or so of it cleaning out the record books, people started to really re-evaluate that movie and fast. "This is what Star Wars needed right now" was only popular in the beginning, then a lot of the dissent started to come in regards to just HOW MUCH of a retread of ANH it really was.

For example, I was even among a group of die hard Star Wars fans who were completely in the camp of "It needed to be familiar and emulate the original, and they needed to lay the groundwork for the whole trilogy that is coming, it is just a first act, so there are more questions than answers"....that is 100% what my stance was for 2 years. I was a hardcore Star Wars Stan all the way up through 2017.

Then The Last Jedi came out, and was as dreadful as it was...and it retroactively makes The Force Awakens worse. If TLJ had followed up in a lot of ways that seemed clear, answering questions and properly developing the momentum of where TFA started....then it may have retroactively made TFA feel even better, even more secure in the way it was executed.

But time has only been MORE brutal to The Force Awakens. If it was a familiar start to what ended up being a great new trilogy, it would be forgiven for being so similar to A New Hope. Things didn't turn out that way though. Instead, TFA is a fairly blatant and uncreative retread, that doesn't stand alone like ANH and isn't nearly as well written or structured. It is an open-ended, mystery-box filled beginning of a story, and then the next 2 pieces of the story are borderline unwatchable.

The sequel trilogy is about the closest thing to a total narrative failure that we've ever seen across 3 parts of a huge blockbuster trilogy. The fact that anyone rates any of those films above The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones is laughable. At least the prequel trilogy was a functioning 3 part story with a satisfying conclusion....the Disney Trilogy is a mess from front to back and arguably got WORSE with each consecutive chapter.

[eabaker]

Its similarities to A New Hope stems from laziness, not a desire to remake it.

Hard disagree. Those similarities were a calculated means to appeal to the audiences nostalgia for the originals, after so much vocal complaint about the failure of the PT to recapture the tone and energy of the OT. And in terms of popular audience response, it seems to have been a pretty successful attempt.

Only initially, after the first month or so of it cleaning out the record books, people started to really re-evaluate that movie and fast. "This is what Star Wars needed right now" was only popular in the beginning, then a lot of the dissent started to come in regards to just HOW MUCH of a retread of ANH it really was.

For example, I was even among a group of die hard Star Wars fans who were completely in the camp of "It needed to be familiar and emulate the original, and they needed to lay the groundwork for the whole trilogy that is coming, it is just a first act, so there are more questions than answers"....that is 100% what my stance was for 2 years. I was a hardcore Star Wars Stan all the way up through 2017.

Then The Last Jedi came out, and was as dreadful as it was...and it retroactively makes The Force Awakens worse. If TLJ had followed up in a lot of ways that seemed clear, answering questions and properly developing the momentum of where TFA started....then it may have retroactively made TFA feel even better, even more secure in the way it was executed.

But time has only been MORE brutal to The Force Awakens. If it was a familiar start to what ended up being a great new trilogy, it would be forgiven for being so similar to A New Hope. Things didn't turn out that way though. Instead, TFA is a fairly blatant and uncreative retread, that doesn't stand alone like ANH and isn't nearly as well written or structured. It is an open-ended, mystery-box filled beginning of a story, and then the next 2 pieces of the story are borderline unwatchable.

The sequel trilogy is about the closest thing to a total narrative failure that we've ever seen across 3 parts of a huge blockbuster trilogy. The fact that anyone rates any of those films above The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones is laughable. At least the prequel trilogy was a functioning 3 part story with a satisfying conclusion....the Disney Trilogy is a mess from front to back and arguably got WORSE with each consecutive chapter.

Some of this I agree with, some of it I disagree with, but none of it addresses the claim of "laziness."

[miguelnuva]

TFA can still come over my house and hang out. I despise TLJ and ROS however.

[eabaker]

TFA can still.cone over my house and hang out. I depise TLJ and ROS however.

Despise?

That's fucking harsh...

[miguelnuva]

TFA can still.cone over my house and hang out. I depise TLJ and ROS however.

Despise?

That's skreeonking harsh...

I don't see it as harsh. I wish no harm on the filmmakers, the cast and If someone else likes them I'm glad they provided joy to others. Just in my personal opinion they did damage to Star Wars in my eyes with what they did to the OT cast.

[Major sssspielberg!]

A lot of (fair) criticism has been shot at those movies, but I'd like to say that Crait is an insanely cool planet and those visuals were sweet. Didn't care for the cartoon crystal fox, but it's probably the most original idea for a planet out of all of Star Wars.
If I had to pick the biggest sin of Last Jedi it was probably the lack of lightsaber fights. On a story level, though I didn't care for it, Rian's sUbVeRsIoN oF eXpEcTaTiOnS was an interesting idea. But the fact that the only "real" lightsaber fight was the PS2 tier fight scene with SnokePurpp's entourage and that was it is sort of the straw that broke the camel's back for me.