DC Cinematic Universe

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What is your favorite DC film thus far?

Man of Steel
1
2%
Batman vs. Superman: Dawn of Justice
6
15%
Suicide Squad
1
2%
Wonder Woman
4
10%
Justice League
0
No votes
Aquaman
1
2%
Shazam!
2
5%
Birds of Prey
1
2%
Wonder Woman 1984
0
No votes
Zack Snyder's Justice League
5
12%
The Suicide Squad
20
49%
 
Total votes: 41

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Re: DC Cinematic Universe

Post by miguelnuva »

SoggyNoodles2016 wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:37 am
miguelnuva wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:26 am
Terasawa wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 6:58 am Why can't Clark Kent be black?
Because Clark Kent has been a white guy who grew up in Kentucky for nearly 100 years


And?

Mary Jane Watson was conceived as a white girl 56 years ago and I don't see this issue with Zendaya's MJ. Same with Alicia Masters being black in the 2005 movie despite being white since 1962. How about Billy Dee Williams playing Harvey Dent in Batman (1989)? Isn't that one of the most requested actors to be brought back to be Two-Face? Isn't that invalid because he was written as a white guy? Or the Deadpool movies making Blind Al and Domino black? Should that be retconned now that it's in the MCU?

Or is it possible this doesn't matter and it matters how the character is written?
Zendaya is not Mary Jane Watson, she is MJ but not Mary Jane Watson. If you can race swap and it serves the story then I agree with it, I personally think they should change Magneto Black when he comes to the MCU due to his backstory, I also enjoyed Michael Clark Duncan as Kingpin. I would feel the same way with Black Peter Parker, I don't need black Peter Parker, we have Miles and he is a terrific character. It depends on the character and the story when it comes to race swapping.

Also not cool to cut out the rest of my quote when I already explained my reasoning. There is not story that you could tell with a Black Clark Kent that you couldn't tell with Calvin Ellis who already is Black Superman. Black Clark Kent is being used by WB as a publicity stunt and to get a rise out of people both good and bad. Michael B Jordan even called that move out which is why he's doing Val Zod now.
Last edited by miguelnuva on Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: DC Cinematic Universe

Post by Terasawa »

Correction:

Does Clark Kent need to be white? If yes, why?
Vakanai wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:18 am I also wouldn't want Blade or Black Panther to be white.
Black Panther is a great example of a character whose racial identity is an essential component of the character.

IMO, the most suitable answer to my revised question would be "depends on the story." Clark Kent couldn't have been anything but a white man in 1938 because that's just unfortunately how America was. But as far as I'm concerned, you could absolutely have a Person of Color portray that role today.

No one here has really explained why Clark Kent's Superman has to be played by or portrayed as a white man in all media.
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Re: DC Cinematic Universe

Post by miguelnuva »

Terasawa wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 1:04 pm Correction:

Does Clark Kent need to be white? If yes, why?
Vakanai wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:18 am I also wouldn't want Blade or Black Panther to be white.
Black Panther is a great example of a character whose racial identity is an essential component of the character.

IMO, the most suitable answer to my revised question would be "depends on the story." Clark Kent couldn't have been anything but a white man in 1938 because that's just unfortunately how America was. But as far as I'm concerned, you could absolutely have a Person of Color portray that role today.

No one here has really explained why Clark Kent's Superman has to be played by or portrayed as a white man in all media.
His orginal creators imagining him as white and Calvin Ellis and Val Zod existing are good enough reasons.

I can say the same thing, no one has explained a good reason for Clark to become Black when Calvin Ellis already exists.
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Re: DC Cinematic Universe

Post by SoggyNoodles2016 »

miguelnuva wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:25 pm
SoggyNoodles2016 wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:37 am
miguelnuva wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:26 am

Because Clark Kent has been a white guy who grew up in Kentucky for nearly 100 years


And?

Mary Jane Watson was conceived as a white girl 56 years ago and I don't see this issue with Zendaya's MJ. Same with Alicia Masters being black in the 2005 movie despite being white since 1962. How about Billy Dee Williams playing Harvey Dent in Batman (1989)? Isn't that one of the most requested actors to be brought back to be Two-Face? Isn't that invalid because he was written as a white guy? Or the Deadpool movies making Blind Al and Domino black? Should that be retconned now that it's in the MCU?

Or is it possible this doesn't matter and it matters how the character is written?
Zendaya is not Mary Jane Watson, she is MJ but not Mary Jane Watson.
Nah, they're the same character no matter what people say.

you can race swap and it serves the story then I agree with it, I personally think they should change Magneto Black when he comes to the MCU due to his backstory, I also enjoyed Michael Clark Duncan as Kingpin. I would feel the same way with Black Peter Parker, I don't need black Peter Parker, we have Miles and he is a terrific character. It depends on the character and the story when it comes to race swapping.
Agree fully
Also not cool to cut out the rest of my quote when I already explained my reasoning. There is not story that you could tell with a Black Clark Kent that you couldn't tell with Calvin Ellis who already is Black Superman. Black Clark Kent is being used by WB as a publicity stunt and to get a rise out of people both good and bad. Michael B Jordan even called that move out which is why he's doing Val Zod now.
My apologies, I had no intent to offend. I cut the rest because I had issue with the idea that JUST because Clark Kent has been white for 100 years, he can't be black now. I agreed with this and so I had no need to comment, I didn't realize it was part of the argument.
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Re: DC Cinematic Universe

Post by Gigantis »

I'll bite and say that i agree that it really just depends on how it's written if Clark being black can work or not. I simply just see it as a super unneccesary change to a character, and just comes off as ignoring two other perfectly good characters who are honestly pretty overdue for a big-screen adaptation.
Last edited by Gigantis on Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: DC Cinematic Universe

Post by Terasawa »

miguelnuva wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 1:20 pm I can say the same thing, no one has explained a good reason for Clark to become Black when Calvin Ellis already exists.
Clark Kent can be any fucking race any of us want him to be as long as it suits the story being told because he's a fictional character and he's not even human (thus, even though he traditionally appears white, he isn't "Caucasian").

"His creators envisioned him that way" is a poor explanation considering the changes Kent/Superman have gone through since 1938. As far as I know, his skin color as drawn by Siegel & Shuster was no more an inviolate aspect of his character than his costume or his abilities, both of which have changed superficially and narratively where they and other artists & storytellers see fit. I don't see why the color of his skin can't likewise be changed.

I just see manufactured outrage here. 1) It's not insulting to exiting black characters because you're talking about fictional characters; no real person is getting insulted here. 2) You said, "if the story was good no one cares if a character has a different name" -- exactly! If the story is good, who the hell cares what color is the skin of the actor playing the part?
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Re: DC Cinematic Universe

Post by Major sssspielberg! »

At the end of the day it really doesn't matter. These movies aren't really concerned with "doing justice" to the comics. But, if you cast a non-white actor as Clark and he did a good job that was doing justice to the character from the pages, then cool! Who cares what color Supes is as long as it's a good Blue Boyscout adventure?

I will say I'm of the mindset that we need new, compelling superhero characters in general, but especially when it comes to representation. A good example is Static, who I feel is the best take on the "Peter Parker" archetype, and arguably understands what makes Spider-Man special more than Brian Bendis did when he created Miles Morales.
What I'm saying is, I'd watch the hell out of a Static movie! We've had a million bits of Superman media, maybe start elevating diverse characters that could use the exposure?
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Re: DC Cinematic Universe

Post by miguelnuva »

Terasawa wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:14 pm
miguelnuva wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 1:20 pm I can say the same thing, no one has explained a good reason for Clark to become Black when Calvin Ellis already exists.
Clark Kent can be any skreeonking race any of us want him to be as long as it suits the story being told because he's a fictional character and he's not even human (thus, even though he traditionally appears white, he isn't "Caucasian").

"His creators envisioned him that way" is a poor explanation considering the changes Kent/Superman have gone through since 1938. As far as I know, his skin color as drawn by Siegel & Shuster was no more an inviolate aspect of his character than his costume or his abilities, both of which have changed superficially and narratively where they and other artists & storytellers see fit. I don't see why the color of his skin can't likewise be changed.

I just see manufactured outrage here. 1) It's not insulting to exiting black characters because you're talking about fictional characters; no real person is getting insulted here. 2) You said, "if the story was good no one cares if a character has a different name" -- exactly! If the story is good, who the hell cares what color is the skin of the actor playing the part?
Terasawa weren't you one of the people who were pissed off MV Godzilla praised nuclear power when the character has been anti nuke sense his inception.

To me as a black man I don't need a character that has been white race swapped to tell a story when there is already a Black character that has just as good of a story.

A fictional character's race or identity shouldn't be changed just because their fictional they should be treated as real in the context of the story.

I'll ask again, what is this big stroy idea that Clark Kent needs to be Black other than the studio doesn't want to take a chance on Calvin Ellis because of fincinal reasons.

But this argument is moot anyway, we're getting a Val Zod show and Black Clark Kent.

Added in 1 minute 14 seconds:
SoggyNoodles2016 wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:25 pm
miguelnuva wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:25 pm
SoggyNoodles2016 wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:37 am

And?

Mary Jane Watson was conceived as a white girl 56 years ago and I don't see this issue with Zendaya's MJ. Same with Alicia Masters being black in the 2005 movie despite being white since 1962. How about Billy Dee Williams playing Harvey Dent in Batman (1989)? Isn't that one of the most requested actors to be brought back to be Two-Face? Isn't that invalid because he was written as a white guy? Or the Deadpool movies making Blind Al and Domino black? Should that be retconned now that it's in the MCU?

Or is it possible this doesn't matter and it matters how the character is written?
Zendaya is not Mary Jane Watson, she is MJ but not Mary Jane Watson.
Nah, they're the same character no matter what people say.

you can race swap and it serves the story then I agree with it, I personally think they should change Magneto Black when he comes to the MCU due to his backstory, I also enjoyed Michael Clark Duncan as Kingpin. I would feel the same way with Black Peter Parker, I don't need black Peter Parker, we have Miles and he is a terrific character. It depends on the character and the story when it comes to race swapping.
Agree fully
Also not cool to cut out the rest of my quote when I already explained my reasoning. There is not story that you could tell with a Black Clark Kent that you couldn't tell with Calvin Ellis who already is Black Superman. Black Clark Kent is being used by WB as a publicity stunt and to get a rise out of people both good and bad. Michael B Jordan even called that move out which is why he's doing Val Zod now.
My apologies, I had no intent to offend. I cut the rest because I had issue with the idea that JUST because Clark Kent has been white for 100 years, he can't be black now. I agreed with this and so I had no need to comment, I didn't realize it was part of the argument.
No offense taken, I was just making sure that my point was I'm not anti race swap, I just think when you have prr existing characters that are swapped there is no need to do it.
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Re: DC Cinematic Universe

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miguelnuva wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:46 pm Terasawa weren't you one of the people who were pissed off MV Godzilla praised nuclear power when the character has been anti nuke sense his inception.
Godzilla was created as an allegory for Japan's devastation by American nukes. Later Godzilla films either downplayed this so as to ignore it or only pay lip service to it; in my opinion, the only one which has outright betrayed that original intent is KotM. IMO, only in that film did we finally get a Godzilla film in which nuclear weapons (help) save the day. That is the very antithesis of what the character was originally intended to represent, namely, the horror of nuclear weaponry.

Meanwhile, Superman/Clark Kent was originally inked with white skin. Why? Because in 1938's popular entertainment, black people were only allowed to be janitors, busboys, shoeshines, etc. In other words, Superman is only white because his creation was influenced by racial biases and cultural attitudes of the time. So prevalent then were these attitudes that I'd bet Siegel and Shuster (both Jewish, incidentally) probably never even considered their character could have been anything but a white-skinned man.

Unless you're saying that Clark Kent's white skin has metaphorical importance on the level of "Godzilla represents the three* atomic bombs the U.S. dropped on Japan," which I don't think you are, there's no core thematic reason for Superman/Clark Kent to be white other than because it was the norm in 1938.

There's not even a narrative reason for him to be white, either. Clark Kent's story is basically that of an alien baby sent to Earth and adopted by a local couple who raise him as their own, instilling in him the principles of what it means to be a good person. He then grows up and uses his natural super abilities to protect those values. That's not a story unique to the Caucasian race. Had the character been created in a more enlightened time or place, his adoptive parents could have been black, Latin American, East Asian, Mediterranean, Aboriginal Australian, whatever! His skin color could have been black, brown, yellow, red, etc. The only necessity is that he doesn't appear too outwardly alien, i.e. he must be able to pass for human. (No green or blue skin.)

This is the crux of my point: If Clark Kent's Superman is supposed to represent the American Way, then he absolutely should be black, or brown, or whatever. America is not just a white nation (you know this) and the values of what it takes to be an American are not reserved solely for white people. (At least in principle. :() That's why Clark Kent's skin color should be whatever the hell a storyteller wants it to be.


*Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and the ill-fated Castle Bravo test, which lent its name to the heroes' undersea base in 2019's Godzilla King of the Monsters. Now *that* is an example of Hollywood tone deafness.
To me as a black man I don't need a character that has been white race swapped to tell a story when there is already a Black character that has just as good of a story.
I get that you're disappointed that Calvin Ellis isn't going to be the screen's first black Superman, and I think that's fair. But I don't think "there's already a black Superman" is a valid answer to the question "why does Clark Kent have to be white?" So there's already a black Superman... why can't there be another one?

I hope I've illustrated above why I think even the original Clark Kent/Superman story is worth telling with PoC in the leading roles, but bear in mind that neither you nor I know what story DC intends to tell, except that its version of Clark Kent will be a black man. Again, "If the story is good, who the hell cares what color is the skin of the actor playing the part?"
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Re: DC Cinematic Universe

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So say they made Godzilla Clorox clean white going forward, no real reason why. But that became the characters color going forward for the foreseeable future. Would we all be cool with that? No plot significance, and the films that this character is attached too, are decent at best.

At what point do we allow visual accuracy its' due? If fans have become attached and grown alongside a character, and what that character looks like. Why shouldn't they be able to disagree, effectively, when that character is then swapped in whatever way shape or form?
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Re: DC Cinematic Universe

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_JNavs_ wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:53 pm So say they made Godzilla Clorox clean white going forward, no real reason why. But that became the characters color going forward for the foreseeable future. Would we all be cool with that? No plot significance, and the films that this character is attached too, are decent at best.
First of all, who said anything about "going forward for the foreseeable future" re: Superman? :|

Like, I understand that in Hollywood today you don't typically do just one tentpole film using a character as big as Superman. If the new film is a hit, then yes, we'll be seeing sequels, spinoffs, etc. with this version of the character. And yes, Clark Kent and Superman will be black if that's the case.

But, if that happens, is the white Clark Kent of the comics going anywhere? And if he does, is that such a bad thing?

Second: Who said anything about "no plot significance" re: Superman? :eh:

Third--and I can't believe I'm typing this right now--Godzilla's "skin color" frankly doesn't matter because... he's not a human being. Casting a black actor in the part of Superman is a huge deal, regardless of the version of the character he plays. That's representation, that's showing black children that Superman doesn't have to be white*. Nobody looks up to Godzilla because of the color of his scales. :dizzy:

And do you not remember when Toho did change Godzilla's color to green and gave him a radically different design which didn't have any plot significance whatsoever? Those movies were also "decent at best." In 1999, there was no way of knowing how long Godzilla's appearance would remain this way, even more so in 2000 when GxM rolled around with the same Godzilla design in a completely unrelated work. Until that movie bombed at the Japanese box office, it was looking like that was to be the Godzilla for the next generation.

Today, it's widely regarded as one of the best. So I don't get your point for all this in regards to Superman. This is such a skewed analogy, dude.


*I know there are already black versions of the character in the comics, but keep in mind that many, many people who watch superhero movies aren't even casual fans of the comics. For example I honestly didn't know there were other Supermen besides Clark Kent before this discussion.
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Re: DC Cinematic Universe

Post by Spirit Ghidorah 2010 »

_JNavs_ wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:53 pm No plot significance, and the films that this character is attached too, are decent at best.
Does this mean we'll finally get a decent Superman movie? I'm game.
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Re: DC Cinematic Universe

Post by miguelnuva »

Terasawa wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 5:11 pm
_JNavs_ wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:53 pm So say they made Godzilla Clorox clean white going forward, no real reason why. But that became the characters color going forward for the foreseeable future. Would we all be cool with that? No plot significance, and the films that this character is attached too, are decent at best.
First of all, who said anything about "going forward for the foreseeable future" re: Superman? :|

Like, I understand that in Hollywood today you don't typically do just one tentpole film using a character as big as Superman. If the new film is a hit, then yes, we'll be seeing sequels, spinoffs, etc. with this version of the character. And yes, Clark Kent and Superman will be black if that's the case.

But, if that happens, is the white Clark Kent of the comics going anywhere? And if he does, is that such a bad thing?

Second: Who said anything about "no plot significance" re: Superman? :eh:

Third--and I can't believe I'm typing this right now--Godzilla's "skin color" frankly doesn't matter because... he's not a human being. Casting a black actor in the part of Superman is a huge deal, regardless of the version of the character he plays. That's representation, that's showing black children that Superman doesn't have to be white*. Nobody looks up to Godzilla because of the color of his scales. :dizzy:

And do you not remember when Toho did change Godzilla's color to green and gave him a radically different design which didn't have any plot significance whatsoever? Those movies were also "decent at best." In 1999, there was no way of knowing how long Godzilla's appearance would remain this way, even more so in 2000 when GxM rolled around with the same Godzilla design in a completely unrelated work. Until that movie bombed at the Japanese box office, it was looking like that was to be the Godzilla for the next generation.

Today, it's widely regarded as one of the best. So I don't get your point for all this in regards to Superman. This is such a skewed analogy, dude.


*I know there are already black versions of the character in the comics, but keep in mind that many, many people who watch superhero movies aren't even casual fans of the comics. For example I honestly didn't know there were other Supermen besides Clark Kent before this discussion.
Clark Kent and Superman are two alternate identities. Clark Kent was envisioned as a White Man who grew up on a Farm and was taught to be a good person. Superman is the alien who has to deal with being sent to Earth, My whole point is you can do Superman and make him black without bringing Clark Kent in as well. It has already worked with Miles being Spiderman and Spiderman is more popular than Superman.

Once again using Calvin Ellis or Val-Zod as Michael B Jordan is doing is also showings Kids Superman can be Black.

As for the time he was created now we're just dealing with what ifs and can go 100,000 different ways with it, but is Clark Kent was created as a person of color in more socially acceptable times the only argument we would be having is if they were making him no longer a person of Color. Flipping it the other way around why would someone make a Spawn movie with a White Al Simmons when James Downing exists.

To me you don't just alter a person's skin color just becasue their fictional when there is already another character that can do the same thing. This is a Superman film, people are going to see Superman you don't have to stick him with the Clark Kent name.

Added in 17 minutes 33 seconds:
Thinking back on it like I said it's a moot point. WB is doing a Black Clark Kent me debating why Calvin Ellis would have been a better choice is not.going to change that lt.
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Re: DC Cinematic Universe

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miguelnuva wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 5:31 pmMy whole point is you can do Superman and make him black without bringing Clark Kent in as well.
I just don't understand your reasoning. Why is Clark Kent race is so sacrosanct? I know you've said there are other black versions of Superman. To me, that doesn't answer "why must Clark Kent be white?" IMO that reasoning is wholly beside the point. I'm sorry, I just don't understand.
As for the time he was created now we're just dealing with what ifs and can go 100,000 different ways with it
And now... you missed my point altogether. I was never trying to play what-if (nor did I...), just reiterating the circumstances of Superman's creation.
but is Clark Kent was created as a person of color in more socially acceptable times the only argument we would be having is if they were making him no longer a person of Color. Flipping it the other way around why would someone make a Spawn movie with a White Al Simmons when James Downing exists.
Vakanai earlier mentioned Black Panther, which is an excellent example (and one I can understand, because I know next to nothing about Spawn). Black Panther was unquestionably intended to be a black man and, according to Stan Lee, intended to appeal to black comic readers. You couldn't do a white T'Challa because it's antithetical to the character's purpose and identity. Although there are white people in Africa, re-writing T'Challa as a non-black person wouldn't make much narrative sense.

What I already argued is that the racial identity of Clark Kent and his adoptive parents is absolutely universal. The Kents could have and still could be a family of Mexican-Americans, Middle Eastern, or even mix-raced.

I'm not going to continue this beyond this post because we can't see eye-to-eye on this. I didn't mean for this to consume the thread the way it has.

Anyway, the biggest irony here is that the to-be-cast actor isn't even the first Person of Color to play Clark Kent. Dean Cain had the part for four years without apparent incident (at least that I'm aware of) and he was part Japanese. :shrug:
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Re: DC Cinematic Universe

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https://www.google.com/amp/s/collider.c ... o-max/amp/

Last thing I'm going to day in in the article here.
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Re: DC Cinematic Universe

Post by Vakanai »

Terasawa wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 1:04 pm Correction:

Does Clark Kent need to be white? If yes, why?
Vakanai wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:18 am I also wouldn't want Blade or Black Panther to be white.
Black Panther is a great example of a character whose racial identity is an essential component of the character.

IMO, the most suitable answer to my revised question would be "depends on the story." Clark Kent couldn't have been anything but a white man in 1938 because that's just unfortunately how America was. But as far as I'm concerned, you could absolutely have a Person of Color portray that role today.

No one here has really explained why Clark Kent's Superman has to be played by or portrayed as a white man in all media.
To be frank - no, there's no need for him to be white - but another question - why does a need matter at all? We're talking about what we want, what we'd like to see. We want to see him as a white man not because he needs to be, but because he's always been white in the comics, the cartoons, the movies. We want the character we know and love to look like he always has. People argue over "need" like it's some kind of revealing truth or good argument, but it's really not in the slightest. Need isn't a part of the discussion, need doesn't matter at all. We don't need a Superman movie to begin with - hell, we don't need the superhero genre or movies as a whole to begin with. But we want superheros, we want movies, and we want a Clark Kent Superman who looks like a Clark Kent Superman. You can't argue to fans on why a character needs to change this way or that way - we're fans, we just want the things we're fans of in a way that's familiar to us as fans of the thing.

Added in 12 minutes :
Greyshot151 wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:23 am
Terasawa wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 6:58 am Why can't Clark Kent be black?
I think you could do that, but I think a better example of this done right is Miles Morales. He IS Spider-Man, still embodies the core concept of what makes Spider-Man special but isn't simply Peter Parker. I think this is what MBJ is referencing. You don't need Clare Kent, the person, for you to have Superman. You just need a character that questions their home versus heritage, is from Krypton and someone with unfathomable strength yet the courage to restrain himself. Nail those things, and it doesn't matter who plays the title character or what their name is.

They will be a Superman.
Also 100% this too. You'll never convince me that Clark Kent or Peter Parker shouldn't be white - at the same time, I love Miles Morales as Spider-Man in his movie (haven't read much Marvel, sorry) and I'm all sorts of ready for Val Zod Superman on my TV screen (shame it's an HBO Max streaming series and not a theatrical, but I'll take it).

Added in 16 minutes 39 seconds:
miguelnuva wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:25 pmBlack Clark Kent is being used by WB as a publicity stunt and to get a rise out of people both good and bad. Michael B Jordan even called that move out which is why he's doing Val Zod now.
Also this - the fact that it was done intentionally for publicity and not as a result of say color blind casting or what have you, takes it from merely being a possible cautious okay-wait-and-see sort of thing to a more annoying studio bull thing. It wasn't an artistic move or choice, it was a corporate one, and those typically just bug the fanbase more to begin with.

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Terasawa wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 1:04 pm
Vakanai wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:18 am I also wouldn't want Blade or Black Panther to be white.
Black Panther is a great example of a character whose racial identity is an essential component of the character.

IMO, the most suitable answer to my revised question would be "depends on the story." Clark Kent couldn't have been anything but a white man in 1938 because that's just unfortunately how America was. But as far as I'm concerned, you could absolutely have a Person of Color portray that role today.

No one here has really explained why Clark Kent's Superman has to be played by or portrayed as a white man in all media.
Quoted you twice to respond to different parts of post.

That is your opinion, we all have them. But we don't all have to share them. There's been instances of race bending that either worked or was fine, typically had nothing to do with story and more with the actor or actress being better (or the character being so minor - honestly could've cast cardboard for MCU's Heimdall for all the screen time he got). But if the reason to change a character's race actually involves the story? If depending on the story is the answer? It's not really race bending any longer really is it? If you need to change the character's race to tell the story, then you probably needed a different character for that story to begin with.

As for the last bit, no one's explained it because Clark does have "to be played by or portrayed as a white man in all media" - but that doesn't mean he shouldn't be either. Again, it isn't about what is needed for the character, it isn't about what "has to be", it's just the simple desire to see the character you're a fan of adapted faithfully - and yes, physical appearance is part of a faithful adaptation, why do you think so many Hellblazer fans weren't crazy about Keanu's dark hair in Constantine (and yes, hair color was the least of the things that film got wrong in adapting it, but fans still complained about that too)?

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Major sssspielberg! wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:39 pm At the end of the day it really doesn't matter. These movies aren't really concerned with "doing justice" to the comics. But, if you cast a non-white actor as Clark and he did a good job that was doing justice to the character from the pages, then cool! Who cares what color Supes is as long as it's a good Blue Boyscout adventure?

I will say I'm of the mindset that we need new, compelling superhero characters in general, but especially when it comes to representation. A good example is Static, who I feel is the best take on the "Peter Parker" archetype, and arguably understands what makes Spider-Man special more than Brian Bendis did when he created Miles Morales.
What I'm saying is, I'd watch the hell out of a Static movie! We've had a million bits of Superman media, maybe start elevating diverse characters that could use the exposure?
You're in luck! They're making a Static movie! It was announced last year during that DC Fandome thing. Haven't been any news since sadly, but it's happening and I'm excited for it.

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Spirit Ghidorah 2010 wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 5:25 pm
_JNavs_ wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:53 pm No plot significance, and the films that this character is attached too, are decent at best.
Does this mean we'll finally get a decent Superman movie? I'm game.
No, sadly it's a hypothetical, not a prediction. With WB behind this, "decent" and "Superman" are still unlikely to ever meet in film form in modernity...

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Terasawa wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 5:54 pm
miguelnuva wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 5:31 pmMy whole point is you can do Superman and make him black without bringing Clark Kent in as well.
I just don't understand your reasoning. Why is Clark Kent race is so sacrosanct? I know you've said there are other black versions of Superman. To me, that doesn't answer "why must Clark Kent be white?" IMO that reasoning is wholly beside the point. I'm sorry, I just don't understand.
And I've finally caught up to the end of the thread! Wow you guys posted a lot in one day...okay so, last thing "why must Clark Kent be white?" IMO is a question that is wholly besides the point. A better question is "why change Clark Kent to be black when 2 other black Supermen already exists?"
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Re: DC Cinematic Universe

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Simply exploring the ways in which being black would or would not alter the course and meaning of Clark Kent's journey is reason enough for a storyteller to want to examine the character through that lens.
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Re: DC Cinematic Universe

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eabaker wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:21 am Simply exploring the ways in which being black would or would not alter the course and meaning of Clark Kent's journey is reason enough for a storyteller to want to examine the character through that lens.
And the storyteller couldn't do that with an existing Black Kryptonian why?
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Re: DC Cinematic Universe

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miguelnuva wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 12:25 pm
eabaker wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:21 am Simply exploring the ways in which being black would or would not alter the course and meaning of Clark Kent's journey is reason enough for a storyteller to want to examine the character through that lens.
And the storyteller couldn't do that with an existing Black Kryptonian why?
Because an existing Black Kryptonian would not be Clark Kent. If the question being explored is, all other things being equal, how would this specific character's life have been different based on one significant change, then it only works if it is that specific character.

Also, putting aside all issues of theory and theme, as has been pointed out elsewhere in this thread: because most of the potential audience has never heard of those other characters, and thus it would be more difficult to market the product to them.
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Re: DC Cinematic Universe

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eabaker wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 12:34 pm
miguelnuva wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 12:25 pm
eabaker wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:21 am Simply exploring the ways in which being black would or would not alter the course and meaning of Clark Kent's journey is reason enough for a storyteller to want to examine the character through that lens.
And the storyteller couldn't do that with an existing Black Kryptonian why?
Because an existing Black Kryptonian would not be Clark Kent. If the question being explored is, all other things being equal, how would this specific character's life have been different based on one significant change, then it only works if it is that specific character.

Also, putting aside all issues of theory and theme, as has been pointed out elsewhere in this thread: because most of the potential audience has never heard of those other characters, and thus it would be more difficult to market the product to them.
Most of the audiance is going to see a Superman film. Not necessarily Clark Kent.

People know Superman is Clark Kent yes but Superman is the one you are marketing the movie behind.

The hardcore fans will know who Calvin Ellis is, part of the GA is going because they want to see Superman and will be curious why Clark is black now and the other part just want to see a Superman film regardless.

Like I said Superman is a different identity from Clark Kent, you actually can change Superman race I'm this case with a different Earth version of himself and come to the same result.
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