Official News topic

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miguelnuva
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Re: Official News topic

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Terasawa wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 3:08 pm It wasn't my intention to start a religious discussion, but since this has no come up:
miguelnuva wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 2:10 pm Yeah because it was religion that told insane people to interpret the words in a way to justify being assholes.
Their actions are driven by their understanding of their religion, so yes, it was religion, or more precisely a specific interpretation of holy texts.

To you they're "insane" because you don't agree with their extremism.

Religion has driven mankind to commit unspeakable crimes just as it has motivated some of its most beautiful works of art. Don't excuse religion's fault in this case simply because you don't agree with the criminals or the way they practice their faith.
As a man with a Muslim father, extremist can't show where their religious text tells them to beat and rape women because they are a lesser sex the same way White people in the 1800's tried to twist the Bible to say whites were superior to blacks.

Religion has caused people to due fucked up things but it's because they twisted the words to fit their narrative. Same way people bring up the Bible to say why gay couples or wrong but leave other parts out.

Any extremist group especially one that attacks and kills others for disagreeing with them are insane in my book.

If I used Godzilla and Mothra as a reason to kill people because they were screwing up the planet would you blame me and my followers or would you blame Godzilla and Mothra?
Last edited by miguelnuva on Sun Aug 15, 2021 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Official News topic

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Watching footage of the Afghanistan withdrawal/Taliban takeover, very surreal to see Taliban fighters using M4s and M240s since the Afghani Army completely bailed.

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Re: Official News topic

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miguelnuva wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 3:34 pm If I used Godzilla and Mothra as a reason to kill people because they were screwing up the planet would you blame me and my followers or would you blame Godzilla and Mothra?
This is a preposterous hypothetical which I have no intention of debating. Godzilla and Mothra don't have religious texts or centuries of diverse interpretations of their "teachings."

I understand your point --that the religion at its core is not to blame for the actions of individuals who invoke it-- but I don't wholly agree. I also think we're defining "religion" differently. I think it's best we let this go because it's such a volatile topic.
Last edited by Terasawa on Sun Aug 15, 2021 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Official News topic

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Terasawa wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 3:53 pm
miguelnuva wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 3:34 pm If I used Godzilla and Mothra as a reason to kill people because they were screwing up the planet would you blame me and my followers or would you blame Godzilla and Mothra?
This is a preposterous hypothetical which I have no intention of debating. Godzilla and Mothra don't have religious texts or centuries of diverse interpretations of their "teachings."

I understand your point --that the religion at its core is not to blame for the actions of individuals who invoke it-- but I don't wholly agree. I also think we're defining "religion" differently. I think it's best we let this go because it's such a volatile topic.
I agree to drop the topic but between you and I, I consider you someone who has had respectful conversations before and hope we continue to do so. I brought up Godzilla and Mothra becasue to non believers religion is fiction anyway, I was told on this very board for example I was believing in a fictional character. There is an actual church of the Jedi for example.

My only argument is that yes while religion has lead to the worst crimes do to humanity to me it is the interpretation of the religion. Good and bad people all worship religion and I fell we should point out the bad apples not necessarily blame the bucket everyone is apart of.
Last edited by miguelnuva on Sun Aug 15, 2021 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Official News topic

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Spuro wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 12:04 pm
skreeonk religion, man. skreeonk all of it.
How about no.

Not every religion or people of faith are bad. Don't lump all of religion into this.

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Re: Official News topic

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I just have to say again what is happening in Afghanistan right now is just heartbreaking.
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miguelnuva wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 4:29 am I just have to say again what is happening in Afghanistan right now is just heartbreaking.
I've seen a lot of messed up stuff come from American meddling in my time: 9/11 and it's aftermath, the rise of mass shootings in schools and public, Trump, etc. But somehow this one really makes me ashamed to be an American.
As Biden sits in the White House saying "it's not my problem" the world is losing any shreds of remaining respect they have for America.

Maybe if we never decided to get involved in the Mid-East the Afghan people wouldn't be suffering like this right now.

Every vote for politicians that sent our influence over there, every dollar spent from the taxes we pay that went to military and destabilization efforts, all fall on us, the citizens. We're fucking culpable for all the undeserved pain and death coming for the Afghan people.
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Re: Official News topic

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Major sssspielberg! wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 6:08 am As Biden sits in the White House saying "it's not my problem"
In full fairness, we spent twenty years trying to root out the Taliban and get Afghanistan back on its feet, and accomplished nothing. Yes, we caused the problem they're currently facing, but we've proven at this point that we aren't capable of solving that problem, so pulling out before we fuck things up even more might be the best option.
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Re: Official News topic

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JAGzilla wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 6:53 am
Major sssspielberg! wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 6:08 am As Biden sits in the White House saying "it's not my problem"
In full fairness, we spent twenty years trying to root out the Taliban and get Afghanistan back on its feet, and accomplished nothing. Yes, we caused the problem they're currently facing, but we've proven at this point that we aren't capable of solving that problem, so pulling out before we fuck things up even more might be the best option.
Yes, but how many Taliban soldiers got training from someone the US trained to fight the Soviets during the Reagan years? US intervention set Afghanistan up with an enemy they weren't equipped to handle without US assistance. That any President would say "it's not my problem" makes me sick, because it's every American's problem. It's a problem for Afghan people that live here. And if it's a US citizen's problem, it's the government's problem, and the President's.

I'm not saying any of this lightly. Where I live, there's a lot of people who came from the Middle East to make a more peaceful life. If Uncle Sam hadn't been mucking around maybe they wouldn't need to leave their home. There's really no hand-waving our involvement in all the chaos over there. My involvement, as a voter and a taxpayer, as someone who's flown the US flag, and voted for the guy who pulled us out for political clout, without any real plan to protect the people there.
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Re: Official News topic

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miguelnuva wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 4:07 pm I brought up Godzilla and Mothra becasue to non believers religion is fiction anyway
I am what you would call a "non-believer," I do not regard religion the same way I do fiction, and neither do any of my similarly atheistic friends with whom I've discussed the topic (and it's a topic we have to discuss a lot, living in a society that insists on defining us relative to theists). Please don't attribute single thought processes to entire swathes of the population.
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Re: Official News topic

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Major sssspielberg! wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 7:37 am
JAGzilla wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 6:53 am
Major sssspielberg! wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 6:08 am As Biden sits in the White House saying "it's not my problem"
In full fairness, we spent twenty years trying to root out the Taliban and get Afghanistan back on its feet, and accomplished nothing. Yes, we caused the problem they're currently facing, but we've proven at this point that we aren't capable of solving that problem, so pulling out before we skreeonk things up even more might be the best option.
Yes, but how many Taliban soldiers got training from someone the US trained to fight the Soviets during the Reagan years? US intervention set Afghanistan up with an enemy they weren't equipped to handle without US assistance. That any President would say "it's not my problem" makes me sick, because it's every American's problem. It's a problem for Afghan people that live here. And if it's a US citizen's problem, it's the government's problem, and the President's.

I'm not saying any of this lightly. Where I live, there's a lot of people who came from the Middle East to make a more peaceful life. If Uncle Sam hadn't been mucking around maybe they wouldn't need to leave their home. There's really no hand-waving our involvement in all the chaos over there. My involvement, as a voter and a taxpayer, as someone who's flown the US flag, and voted for the guy who pulled us out for political clout, without any real plan to protect the people there.
Again, though, if twenty years of effort didn't even dent the Taliban or build an Afghan state remotely capable of holding its own, what are we even supposed to do? Just... stay there, fighting an unwinnable war, indefinitely?

The Middle East is only in the mess it's in because the West has been meddling over there for centuries. Afghanistan as a nation shouldn't even exist, its borders were just arbitrarily drawn up by Europeans. We need to just get out and let the region fix itself. That will be a long, painful process, but it's got to happen. Everything we try to do just causes more problems.
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Re: Official News topic

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My question is, will the Taliban strike when the time is right?

I've only ever heard the Taliban in relation to Osama Bin Laden, Al-Qaeda, and ISIS. Are they actually a terrorist group? Or did they own the land prior to all this US conflict?

Their history is muddied depending on the site one chooses to go too.
Last edited by _JNavs_ on Mon Aug 16, 2021 9:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Official News topic

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_JNavs_ wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 9:54 am My question is, will the Taliban strike when the time is right?

I've only ever heard the Taliban in relation to Osama Bin Laden, Al-Qaeda, and ISIS. Are they actually a terrorist group? Or did they own the land prior to all this US conflict?

Their history is muddied depending on the site one chooses to go too.
Yes. Long story short, Taliban controlled most of the country prior to 2001. What they didn't control was the north. The U.S. in its invasion of Afghanistan used this friendly region to invade the rest of the country.
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Re: Official News topic

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eabaker wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 8:00 am
miguelnuva wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 4:07 pm I brought up Godzilla and Mothra becasue to non believers religion is fiction anyway
I am what you would call a "non-believer," I do not regard religion the same way I do fiction, and neither do any of my similarly atheistic friends with whom I've discussed the topic (and it's a topic we have to discuss a lot, living in a society that insists on defining us relative to theists). Please don't attribute single thought processes to entire swathes of the population.
I didn't say all non believers. I apologize if you were offended but as the rest of my post said the few atheists I have met have responded in that regard and their is a church of the Jedi.
Last edited by miguelnuva on Mon Aug 16, 2021 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Official News topic

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miguelnuva wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 12:34 pm
eabaker wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 8:00 am
miguelnuva wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 4:07 pm I brought up Godzilla and Mothra becasue to non believers religion is fiction anyway
I am what you would call a "non-believer," I do not regard religion the same way I do fiction, and neither do any of my similarly atheistic friends with whom I've discussed the topic (and it's a topic we have to discuss a lot, living in a society that insists on defining us relative to theists). Please don't attribute single thought processes to entire swathes of the population.
I didn't say all non believers.
You said "to non believers;" not "to some non believers," nor "to non believers I've spoken to on the subject." You offered no qualification to that statement at all. Whether or not it was your intent, your phrasing carried an implication of "all non believers."
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Re: Official News topic

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eabaker wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 12:41 pm
miguelnuva wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 12:34 pm
eabaker wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 8:00 am

I am what you would call a "non-believer," I do not regard religion the same way I do fiction, and neither do any of my similarly atheistic friends with whom I've discussed the topic (and it's a topic we have to discuss a lot, living in a society that insists on defining us relative to theists). Please don't attribute single thought processes to entire swathes of the population.
I didn't say all non believers.
You said "to non believers;" not "to some non believers," nor "to non believers I've spoken to on the subject." You offered no qualification to that statement at all. Whether or not it was your intent, your phrasing carried an implication of "all non believers."
See above edited post.
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Re: Official News topic

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_JNavs_ wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 9:54 amAre they actually a terrorist group? Or did they own the land prior to all this US conflict?
Yes, and yes.
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Re: Official News topic

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miguelnuva wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 12:44 pm
eabaker wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 12:41 pm
miguelnuva wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 12:34 pm

I didn't say all non believers.
You said "to non believers;" not "to some non believers," nor "to non believers I've spoken to on the subject." You offered no qualification to that statement at all. Whether or not it was your intent, your phrasing carried an implication of "all non believers."
See above edited post.
Noted and appreciated.

Of course, I'd also appreciate if theists on the whole stopped using the word "atheist" as a noun, but I don't see that one happening any time soon, especially since most people who aren't theists don't have a problem with it. ;)
Last edited by eabaker on Mon Aug 16, 2021 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Official News topic

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eabaker wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 12:52 pm
miguelnuva wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 12:44 pm
eabaker wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 12:41 pm

You said "to non believers;" not "to some non believers," nor "to non believers I've spoken to on the subject." You offered no qualification to that statement at all. Whether or not it was your intent, your phrasing carried an implication of "all non believers."
See above edited post.
Noted and appreciated.

Of course, I'd also appreciate if theists on the whole stopped using the word "atheist" as a noun, but I don't see that one happening any time soon. ;)
I thought Atheist was the correct, what is the correct term?
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