Unpopular Opinion Thread

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KManX89
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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

Post by KManX89 »

DynomikeGojira wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:39 amThen you have a subset of Godzilla fans who excuse the Monsterverse humans by claiming that the Godzilla films never had deep human character
You also have Godzilla/kaiju fans saying shit like this:

Image

Image

While we're on the subject of toxic fandoms. I mean, besides the fact that it would shoot up the budget to something like $500m+ (G14 cost $150m, and that was with around 20 minutes of monster screentime), it would be a plotless mess of a film that would get tiring after a bit, so the whole ignorant fans thing goes both ways. On one end of the spectrum, you have G fans rationalizing the humans with "Godzilla films have never had deep human characters", and on the other, you have G fans not getting that you have to have a proper balance of both (Cloverfield for example). One such reviewer even compared the Monsterverse humans to the humans in the Transformers movies FFS.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

Post by DynomikeGojira »

KManX89 wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:24 pm
DynomikeGojira wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:39 amThen you have a subset of Godzilla fans who excuse the Monsterverse humans by claiming that the Godzilla films never had deep human character
You also have Godzilla/kaiju fans saying poop like this:

Image

Image

While we're on the subject of toxic fandoms. I mean, besides the fact that it would shoot up the budget to something like $500m+ (G14 cost $150m, and that was with around 20 minutes of monster screentime), it would be a plotless mess of a film that would get tiring after a bit, so the whole ignorant fans thing goes both ways. On one end of the spectrum, you have G fans rationalizing the humans with "Godzilla films have never had deep human characters", and on the other, you have G fans not getting that you have to have a proper balance of both (Cloverfield for example). One such reviewer even compared the Monsterverse humans to the humans in the Transformers movies FFS.
Absolutely right that's why I'm adamant that if there's gonna any new Monsterverse movies they need different writers. Tranformers is a perfect example of what happens when you don't invest in making improvements it finally caught up with them.

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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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Comparing the human MV characters to the Transformer ones is kinda sorta right. I mean they exist only to further the plot along, but I hold no attachment to any of them....maybe, maybe the lil deaf girl from Kong she was good even though she was used and pressured to lie to Kong.

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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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goji89 wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:48 pm Comparing the human MV characters to the Transformer ones is kinda sorta right. I mean they exist only to further the plot along, but I hold no attachment to any of them....maybe, maybe the lil deaf girl from Kong she was good even though she was used and pressured to lie to Kong.
Except you're kinda leaving out one important detail: Transformers can actually talk, giant monsters can't. Humans were barely in the 1986 Transformers movie and it worked more than fine. You could remove them (or should I say, him) outright and nothing would change, you can't have a kaiju movie without humans.

Tough pill to swallow for some, but the explosion/falling Statue of Liberty head scene in Cloverfield wouldn't be NEARLY as suspenseful without the human interaction and I couldn't imagine them going from scene to scene for 90 minutes without following the humans (one thing that movie did right in terms of its human element was having them following the destruction after the first act), so comparing humans in the TF movies to the MV humans is such an asinine comparison that I can't help but roll my eyes that it even gets brought up, which sadly, it does. Apples and oranges.

This article sums up perfectly why the humans are moreso a hindrance than a necessity in the TF movies. The only thing I disagree with is the "FIVE awful Bayformers films", I actually liked the first one (it's another case of it getting retroactively lumped in with the sequels).
Last edited by KManX89 on Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:26 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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I actually liked Ford Brody in the first movie. I thought there could have been an arc over the trilogy of him being marveled by Godzilla. Only for Godzilla to kill him when he inevitably turns on humanity like that guy in the Heisei era.

Also loved John C. Riley in Kong Skull Island
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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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Destoroyah of Worlds wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:40 amAlso loved John C. Riley in Kong Skull Island
That's unpopular? I took it Marlowe is considered among the best human characters in the MonsterVerse alongside Joe Brody.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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I actually think a kaiju only flick could work, BUT, it would have to A. completely excel on the non-verbal language of the kaiju themselves, something the MV has done well, but not well enough to carry a film by itself, and B. still restrain the kaiju action (which is the opposite of what people proposing this want to hear). You don't need people, or even speaking to tell a good story, just look at the some of Pixar's most impressive moments, the opening of Up and the first act of Wall-e, both of which convey their stories almost entirely through a visual medium (or at least without spoken word). I do believe a kaiju flick could achieve this, but it would definitely need to be more experimental than just 80 minutes of extended carnage. And this is coming from a guy who argues that in almost other cases, humans are absolutely necessary to grounding the narrative in kiaju films.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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The majority of the Minecraft Caves & Cliffs update is pointless. Sure, there's some good things (sculk sensors, goats and axolotls, quicksand snow) in the update but the major changes are unneeded and more importantly, feel like a completely different game. The Nether Update, despite having drastic changes, still managed to feel like it fits in the base game. This just feels like a mod ported directly over. Have Mojang never heard the saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"? I legit don't understand.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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Jetty_Jags wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:19 am I actually think a kaiju only flick could work, BUT, it would have to A. completely excel on the non-verbal language of the kaiju themselves, something the MV has done well, but not well enough to carry a film by itself, and B. still restrain the kaiju action (which is the opposite of what people proposing this want to hear). You don't need people, or even speaking to tell a good story, just look at the some of Pixar's most impressive moments, the opening of Up and the first act of Wall-e, both of which convey their stories almost entirely through a visual medium (or at least without spoken word). I do believe a kaiju flick could achieve this, but it would definitely need to be more experimental than just 80 minutes of extended carnage. And this is coming from a guy who argues that in almost other cases, humans are absolutely necessary to grounding the narrative in kiaju films.
The biggest problem that faces a story focusing solely on the monsters is getting the audience to care it has to be structured very well. Take the show Primal for instance it has nearly no dialogue and expresses the story through body language, visuals, and audio, its structured very well and it has to be otherwise it would be a blur of visuals that would simply confuse the audience and give them nothing to care about.

The Godzilla series has always thrived on the fact that the monsters are just as much characters as the actual Human characters, its that combination and synergy that sets the Godzilla and wider Kaiju genre apart. When you take one away from the other either having weak human characters or removing the personality of all the monsters you get The Godzilla Anime trilogy

You get a movie that misses the core soul and DNA of the Godzilla series, most of the people that just want "Monster fights" are the type that go watch XQC reacts to "x Compilation" video and call it the best thing ever. A movie that just focuses on the visuals with no care to advancing the story, no care to the actual characters in the movie is a soul-less, shallow, horrible ugly thing that would be the most regressive thing possible for the franchise

And it amuses me to no end that some of these same people that bemoan the lack of wider acceptance for the franchise want an entire movie to just be "fight scenes" when the most popular and harmful false stereotype for the franchise is that
Last edited by ROMG4 on Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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ROMG4 wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:39 am
Jetty_Jags wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:19 am I actually think a kaiju only flick could work, BUT, it would have to A. completely excel on the non-verbal language of the kaiju themselves, something the MV has done well, but not well enough to carry a film by itself, and B. still restrain the kaiju action (which is the opposite of what people proposing this want to hear). You don't need people, or even speaking to tell a good story, just look at the some of Pixar's most impressive moments, the opening of Up and the first act of Wall-e, both of which convey their stories almost entirely through a visual medium (or at least without spoken word). I do believe a kaiju flick could achieve this, but it would definitely need to be more experimental than just 80 minutes of extended carnage. And this is coming from a guy who argues that in almost other cases, humans are absolutely necessary to grounding the narrative in kiaju films.
The biggest problem that faces a story focusing solely on the monsters is getting the audience to care it has to be structured very well. Take the show Primal for instance it has nearly no dialogue and expresses the story through body language, visuals, and audio, its structured very well and it has to be otherwise it would be a blur of visuals that would simply confuse the audience and give them nothing to care about.

The Godzilla series has always thrived on the fact that the monsters are just as much characters as the actual Human characters, its that combination and synergy that sets the Godzilla and wider Kaiju genre apart. When you take one away from the other either having weak human characters or removing the personality of all the monsters you get The Godzilla Anime trilogy

You get a movie that misses the core soul and DNA of the Godzilla series, most of the people that just want "Monster fights" are the type that go watch XQC reacts to "x Compilation" video and call it the best thing ever. A movie that just focuses on the visuals with no care to advancing the story, no care to the actual characters in the movie is a soul-less, shallow, horrible ugly thing that would be the most regressive thing possible for the franchise

And it amuses me to no end that some of these same people that bemoan the lack of wider acceptance for the franchise want an entire movie to just be "fight scenes" when the most popular and harmful false stereotype for the franchise is that
The other thing, too, is it would be waaaaaaaaay too expensive to pull off such a feat. Lest we forget that these CGI models cost money just to put onscreen, and not cheaply, either. G2014 cost $150m, and that was with around 20 minutes of kaiju screentime, so a Godzilla/kaiju movie with all monster action/fights would probably cost in the ballpark of $500m, and that might be a generous estimate.

But funny you should bring up stereotypes, a lot of Godzilla fans were upset that the 2014 movie wouldn't use suitmation. They were literally the only ones who wanted that, everyone else was ready to laugh it out of the park at the site of "fake-looking men in rubber suits". A common counterargument from fans of the 98 Godzilla (GINO 98) is "G fans only hated it because it didn't feature a cheesy man in a rubber suit, hurr durr", I've seen such counterarguments on GINO 98's IMDb message board from back in the day (yes, I used to check out IMDb back when it was still around, sue me). Me? I knew it needed to get with the times and use CGI monsters if it were to be taken the least bit seriously by general moviegoers. The rubber suits were actually a product of budgetary and technical limitations from when they were introduced that still exist today (because Toho isn't very good at using CGI, let's be honest), there's no way it would fly with general audiences in a modern day big budget Godzilla/kaiju movie yet that's exactly what they wanted and asked for, which is ironic coming from the same people that want "moar mainstream appeal".
Last edited by KManX89 on Mon Apr 26, 2021 7:00 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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KManX89 wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:54 am (because Toho isn't very good at using CGI, let's be honest), there's no way it would fly with general audiences in a modern day big budget Godzilla/kaiju movie yet that's exactly what they wanted and asked for, which is ironic coming from the same people that want "moar mainstream appeal".
You can't blame Toho for a limited budget CGI shot from 1999 not looking up to snuff, its pretty onpar with CGI shots from shows like Voyager and Bab 5 certainly. It certainly looks better than
Spoiler:
Image
And CGI shots from Shin have clearly shown they've been able to overcome their weaknesses from 20+ years ago

If the directors for JW have had to push and struggle with the executives to get a small amount of animatronics in their films, I have no idea how anyone thinks there's any chance of suitmation being in a Legendary film, especially when Motion capture is a great successor and compromise
Last edited by ROMG4 on Mon Apr 26, 2021 7:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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KManX89 wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:54 am
ROMG4 wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:39 am
Jetty_Jags wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:19 am I actually think a kaiju only flick could work, BUT, it would have to A. completely excel on the non-verbal language of the kaiju themselves, something the MV has done well, but not well enough to carry a film by itself, and B. still restrain the kaiju action (which is the opposite of what people proposing this want to hear). You don't need people, or even speaking to tell a good story, just look at the some of Pixar's most impressive moments, the opening of Up and the first act of Wall-e, both of which convey their stories almost entirely through a visual medium (or at least without spoken word). I do believe a kaiju flick could achieve this, but it would definitely need to be more experimental than just 80 minutes of extended carnage. And this is coming from a guy who argues that in almost other cases, humans are absolutely necessary to grounding the narrative in kiaju films.
The biggest problem that faces a story focusing solely on the monsters is getting the audience to care it has to be structured very well. Take the show Primal for instance it has nearly no dialogue and expresses the story through body language, visuals, and audio, its structured very well and it has to be otherwise it would be a blur of visuals that would simply confuse the audience and give them nothing to care about.

The Godzilla series has always thrived on the fact that the monsters are just as much characters as the actual Human characters, its that combination and synergy that sets the Godzilla and wider Kaiju genre apart. When you take one away from the other either having weak human characters or removing the personality of all the monsters you get The Godzilla Anime trilogy

You get a movie that misses the core soul and DNA of the Godzilla series, most of the people that just want "Monster fights" are the type that go watch XQC reacts to "x Compilation" video and call it the best thing ever. A movie that just focuses on the visuals with no care to advancing the story, no care to the actual characters in the movie is a soul-less, shallow, horrible ugly thing that would be the most regressive thing possible for the franchise

And it amuses me to no end that some of these same people that bemoan the lack of wider acceptance for the franchise want an entire movie to just be "fight scenes" when the most popular and harmful false stereotype for the franchise is that
The other thing, too, is it would be waaaaaaaaay too expensive to pull off such a feat. Lest we forget that these CGI models cost money just to put onscreen, and not cheaply, either. G2014 cost $150m, and that was with around 20 minutes of kaiju screentime, so a Godzilla/kaiju movie with all monster action/fights would probably cost in the ballpark of $500m, and that might be a generous estimate.

But funny you should bring up stereotypes, a lot of Godzilla fans were upset that the 2014 movie wouldn't use suitmation. They were literally the only ones who wanted that, everyone else was ready to laugh it out of the park at the site of "fake-looking men in rubber suits". A common counterargument from fans of the 98 Godzilla (GINO 98) is "G fans only hated it because it didn't feature a cheesy man in a rubber suit, hurr durr", I've seen such counterarguments on GINO 98's IMDb message board from back in the day (yes, I used to check out IMDb back when it was still around, sue me). Me? I knew it needed to get with the times and use CGI monsters if it were to be taken the least bit seriously by general moviegoers. The rubber suits were actually a product of budgetary and technical limitations from when they were introduced that still exist today (because Toho isn't very good at using CGI, let's be honest), there's no way it would fly with general audiences in a modern day big budget Godzilla/kaiju movie yet that's exactly what they wanted and asked for, which is ironic coming from the same people that want "moar mainstream appeal".
Toho and Japan are getting better with CGI. I mean, they'll never be big budget Hollywood blockbuster level, but the CGI in Shin was serviceable. So it's better to say they weren't very good, rather than isn't.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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ROMG4 wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 7:18 am
KManX89 wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:54 am (because Toho isn't very good at using CGI, let's be honest), there's no way it would fly with general audiences in a modern day big budget Godzilla/kaiju movie yet that's exactly what they wanted and asked for, which is ironic coming from the same people that want "moar mainstream appeal".
You can't blame Toho for a limited budget CGI shot from 1999 not looking up to snuff, its pretty onpar with CGI shots from shows like Voyager and Bab 5 certainly. It certainly looks better than
Spoiler:
Image
And CGI shots from Shin have clearly shown they've been able to overcome their weaknesses from 20+ years ago

If the directors for JW have had to push and struggle with the executives to get a small amount of animatronics in their films, I have no idea how anyone thinks there's any chance of suitmation being in a Legendary film, especially when Motion capture is a great successor and compromise
You've lost all credibility when you said the CGI Rock-Scorpion King is bad CGI. That's a complete lie.

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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

Post by ROMG4 »

KingKong2005 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 1:06 pm
ROMG4 wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 7:18 am
KManX89 wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:54 am (because Toho isn't very good at using CGI, let's be honest), there's no way it would fly with general audiences in a modern day big budget Godzilla/kaiju movie yet that's exactly what they wanted and asked for, which is ironic coming from the same people that want "moar mainstream appeal".
You can't blame Toho for a limited budget CGI shot from 1999 not looking up to snuff, its pretty onpar with CGI shots from shows like Voyager and Bab 5 certainly. It certainly looks better than
Spoiler:
Image
And CGI shots from Shin have clearly shown they've been able to overcome their weaknesses from 20+ years ago

If the directors for JW have had to push and struggle with the executives to get a small amount of animatronics in their films, I have no idea how anyone thinks there's any chance of suitmation being in a Legendary film, especially when Motion capture is a great successor and compromise
You've lost all credibility when you said the CGI Rock-Scorpion King is bad CGI. That's a complete lie.

Image


Submit to the power of Imhotep CGI, the Scorpion CGI is inferior
Image

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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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I am fed up with the excess rebooting of the Godzilla franchise. I know most of you see the benefit of it, i.e allowing different creative minds have their own take on Godzilla at once and each new entry in the franchise being able to explore a different array of tones and/or styles. I understand where you're coming from, but here me out if you please. I believe stuff like that can be achieved with a singular continuity that lasts an extended period of time. I am not saying they shouldn't ever reboot the franchise again, I am just saying sometimes you need to slow down a bit.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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Multiple ongoing continuities work in unity with their respective audiences. So I embrace all of this new Godzilla content, it's beautiful.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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_JNavs_ wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 6:59 pm Multiple ongoing continuities work in unity with their respective audiences. So I embrace all of this new Godzilla content, it's beautiful.
Would you be okay with multiple ongoing continuities?

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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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LegendZilla wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 7:05 pm
_JNavs_ wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 6:59 pm Multiple ongoing continuities work in unity with their respective audiences. So I embrace all of this new Godzilla content, it's beautiful.
Would you be okay with multiple ongoing continuities?
Definitely! I think for the sake of creativity, it's the best way to go about creating limitless stories.
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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

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_JNavs_ wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 7:07 pm
LegendZilla wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 7:05 pm
_JNavs_ wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 6:59 pm Multiple ongoing continuities work in unity with their respective audiences. So I embrace all of this new Godzilla content, it's beautiful.
Would you be okay with multiple ongoing continuities?
Definitely! I think for the sake of creativity, it's the best way to go about creating limitless stories.
By that logic, can the same be done for Star Wars? Speaking of which, here's another unpopular opinion : I think in my lifetime, Star Wars should get a full-blown hard reboot that starts completely from scratch one day.
Last edited by LegendZilla on Mon May 10, 2021 7:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Unpopular Opinion Thread

Post by Jermobooka »

LegendZilla wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 7:18 pm
_JNavs_ wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 7:07 pm
LegendZilla wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 7:05 pm

Would you be okay with multiple ongoing continuities?
Definitely! I think for the sake of creativity, it's the best way to go about creating limitless stories.
By that logic, can the same be done for Star Wars?
Sure. We got the normal timeline (PT, OT, Rouge One, Clone Wars, Rebels, and The Mandalorian i refuse to acknowledge the existence of the sequels) and the EU/Legends continuities already, after all
Last edited by Jermobooka on Mon May 10, 2021 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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