Comprehensive Guide to Toho's English Versions

For discussions covering more than one Toho film or show that span across more than one “era.”
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cheshire22
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Re: Comprehensive Guide to Toho's English Versions

Postby cheshire22 » Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:30 am

I just now finished reading this entire thread. Wow!

To the creators of the original post, thank you oh so much!! This was incredibly informative. While there was some info I already knew, this greatly increased my knowledge of the English versions of these films! I also very much appreciated the wealth of knowledge contained in many of the comments!


Tamura wrote:MOTHRA VS GODZILLA ... -It seems that no copy of the US version is the same, but we won't go into detail for it is very complicated.

I would be interested in learning more about these differences across the various copies of the US version. If there is a page—blog, forum thread, or otherwise—that describes this in more detail, I would appreciate being pointed in that direction!


Tamura wrote:-A version shown on some TV stations in 1986 utilizes the '80s UPA TV and video version, but with the original TV prologue and opening titles added to the beginning.

I have a piece of information to offer that should prove useful.

In 2004, I recorded onto a VHS tape an AMC airing of Terror of Mechagodzilla that fits the above description of the rare 1986 TV version. The entire film is fullscreen, it opens with Saperstein’s 1978 prologue, titles, and credits, and then after the credits it reverts to the 1980s UPA TV and video version. Additional cuts must have been made to this version, as it was broadcast in a 90 min time slot with commercial breaks, IIRC. I’d like to get the VHS back out and more closely examine the edits, but alas, it is in storage and not easily accessible atm. I had not realized how apparently rare this TV version is until I read this post and saw that, according to your records, it only experienced a limited broadcast on a few stations in 1986. Hope this is helpful in adding to your ever-growing database in that this version experienced at least one airing on a major cable channel in 2004.

Added in 18 hours 37 minutes 9 seconds:
Tamura wrote:GORATH
-US theatrical version released by Brenco in 1964. Dubbed by Ryder Sound.
-Re-edited US TV version of the Brenco cut distributed by Heritage Enterprises.
-It is not known which edits should be attributed to which version except for the cut scene of the giant walrus, Maguma.


Curious as to why it is unknown which edits belong to which version. Does the original Brenco version no longer exist? I am aware that the 3 US VHS releases contain the re-edited TV version, and that is the only US version I’ve ever been able to find.
Last edited by cheshire22 on Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Comprehensive Guide to Toho's English Versions

Postby Living Corpse » Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:20 pm

Holy cow! Where did you get that sig from?
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cheshire22
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Re: Comprehensive Guide to Toho's English Versions

Postby cheshire22 » Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:30 pm

Living Corpse wrote:Holy cow! Where did you get that sig from?


https://www.famousmonsters.com/famous-m ... zilla-art/
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Re: Comprehensive Guide to Toho's English Versions

Postby Living Corpse » Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:34 pm

Ah, thank you.
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cheshire22
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Re: Comprehensive Guide to Toho's English Versions

Postby cheshire22 » Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:54 pm

Welcome!
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Re: Comprehensive Guide to Toho's English Versions

Postby heiseigodzilla425 » Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:43 am

cheshire22 wrote:
Tamura wrote:MOTHRA VS GODZILLA ... -It seems that no copy of the US version is the same, but we won't go into detail for it is very complicated.

I would be interested in learning more about these differences across the various copies of the US version. If there is a page—blog, forum thread, or otherwise—that describes this in more detail, I would appreciate being pointed in that direction!


Sorry I haven't noticed your post in the past, but I just recently checked up on this thread again. I have cataloged some research and put it on my website, which you can find it here (just make sure you select United States under the Alternate Versions). I'm sure that this list of the video masters is not exhaustive, but it should cover the most significant and relatively-available copies of the film.

As a side note: This website has been a work-in-progress/hobby for a while now, and I'm sure theres some details that can use updating here and there. Most notably for Mothra vs. Godzilla, the site currently lists that the German version is missing several frames from the 3rd optical from the Frontier Missile scene, but that sequence is presented in its entirety (and in the original aspect ratio) on Anolis' recent 2-Disc DVD steelbook (which is German language only, PAL, and Region 2, so don't rush out to grab it unless you really want to).

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Re: Comprehensive Guide to Toho's English Versions

Postby Tamura » Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:19 pm

Toho, Co., Ltd. has advised me to remove all references to US versions from the guide.
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Re: Comprehensive Guide to Toho's English Versions

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Fri Sep 27, 2019 1:13 am

Tamura wrote:Toho, Co., Ltd. has advised me to remove all references to US versions from the guide.

Is that a joke? ☺️
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Re: Comprehensive Guide to Toho's English Versions

Postby Terasawa » Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:55 pm

As a sort of supplement to this thread, here's a document containing information on all presently-known Toho export dubs, including obvious stuff from Godzilla vs. Gigan to obscurities like 23 Steps to Bed.

Obviously this is a work in progress. There are still likely many more films that aren't yet known to have been dubbed for Toho. Many of the dubs listed here aren't available on video; most of those were probably never even released in the West. Most of the information on the more obscure titles was compiled from various issues of Toho Films, English brochures printed by Toho for foreign distributors.

Also, clearly, American productions like Godzilla vs The Thing aren't included here. That's why Monster Zero isn't listed despite Toho's use of that dub as a faux international version.
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Re: Comprehensive Guide to Toho's English Versions

Postby Great Hierophant » Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:50 pm

A very good list! To summarize : aside from a few outliers, Toho began regular dubbing in 1959. They quickly ramped up for the 1960s, dubbing in a wide variety of genres. By the 1970s they narrowed their efforts to tokusatsu, horror, anime and special effects heavy war films. The 90s saw a further limitation to kaiju films and Toho seemed to have abandoned the practice after Godzilla: Final Wars in 2004.

Except for anime, after 1971 except for two instances (Godzilla 1985 and Godzilla 2000), the Toho dub became the definitive English language dub. The distributors of the 1970s were poverty-row operations and the 1980s brought home video where these films could be dumped on the market as-is without complaint. Better quality dubs using professional actors located in the U.S. were almost invariably reserved for films with a theatrical release.

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Re: Comprehensive Guide to Toho's English Versions

Postby Terasawa » Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:02 pm

Great Hierophant wrote:A very good list! To summarize : aside from a few outliers, Toho began regular dubbing in 1959. They quickly ramped up for the 1960s, dubbing in a wide variety of genres. By the 1970s they narrowed their efforts to tokusatsu, horror, anime and special effects heavy war films. The 90s saw a further limitation to kaiju films and Toho seemed to have abandoned the practice after Godzilla: Final Wars in 2004.


At least as far as we know, yeah. There are still a lot of holes. I think the only available Toho brochures are from the late '50s and early '60s. I'd love to see more recent books, especially if dubbed versions were still listed. For example, there's presently no evidence of an export version of Toho's biggest hit and arguably most important film of the '70s, Submersion of Japan (the U.S. release was dubbed in Hollywood). There's a partial English poster, and the same design was used for multiple Euro releases, but no concrete evidence of a dubbed soundtrack. It seems impossible that a film that big and internationally exploitable shouldn't have been dubbed.

Except for anime, after 1971 except for two instances (Godzilla 1985 and Godzilla 2000), the Toho dub became the definitive English language dub. The distributors of the 1970s were poverty-row operations and the 1980s brought home video where these films could be dumped on the market as-is without complaint. Better quality dubs using professional actors located in the U.S. were almost invariably reserved for films with a theatrical release.


It's worth noting that Mike Schlesinger, the producer of TriStar's G2K, has said he would have used the Toho-commissioned dub if it had been acceptable, but apparently the dialogue was written in such a way that character relationships and a lot of exposition was very unclear.
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Re: Comprehensive Guide to Toho's English Versions

Postby Tamura » Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:39 am

I have just been informed by Toho Co., Ltd. that this thread is blasphemous and that few Godzilla films have ever been dubbed.
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Re: Comprehensive Guide to Toho's English Versions

Postby Terasawa » Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:18 am

Tamura wrote:I have just been informed by Toho Co., Ltd. that this thread is blasphemous and that few Godzilla films have ever been dubbed.


Time to update the main post:

"The Godzilla films produced by Toho have so far not been dubbed"
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Re: Comprehensive Guide to Toho's English Versions

Postby Gojira 72 » Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:24 pm

Thank You guys for updating this thread, it's VERY useful.

However, would it be possible to update every title (at least for G-movies :huge: ) with a list of home releases and which one contained the US and INT dub ? ;)

eg:

1985 - VHS - Video Ditributor - US dub
2000 - DVD - Sony - INT dub
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Re: Comprehensive Guide to Toho's English Versions

Postby Terasawa » Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:38 am

We’re working on some more extensive fixes and updates and I would really like to include information about home video releases.

In the meantime, if you or anyone has a question about which versions were released on video, I suppose just ask here.
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Re: Comprehensive Guide to Toho's English Versions

Postby Gojira 72 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:53 am

But of course, so let's start with...

GIGANTIS
which releases had the US cut / US dub ?

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Re: Comprehensive Guide to Toho's English Versions

Postby Goji » Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:59 am

The lone (official) release of Raids Again releases on VHS by Video Treasures in 1989 (which also included the original Gigantis title card) and the Classic Media DVD are the only releases of Gigantis on home video. There are a few questionable VHS releases that are quite rare, but I’m pretty sure they are unauthorized.
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Re: Comprehensive Guide to Toho's English Versions

Postby Terasawa » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:21 am

You know what, maybe there should be a separate "What releases have X version?" thread, since it's a popular question...

The current entry for GRA:

GODZILLA RAIDS AGAIN
-US version entitled "GIGANTIS THE FIRE MONSTER", released in 1959. Almost a new film, what with Godzilla's name being changed to "Gigantis" and all, plus extensive edits. Dubbed at Ryder Sound. Struck from the foreign negative of the film, which has one different special effect (a shot of some optical snow around Kobayashi's plane). Has an additional Angurus roar silenced in the original Japanese version (something inherent to the dubbing M&E track). Ending Warner Bros. logo differs between older 16mm prints and the 35mm sourced Alan Enterprises/CST master.
-A video-generated "GODZILLA RAIDS AGAIN" title first appeared in the '80s when the movie started playing again on television, long before Disney Channel started airing it with the same title. This version is available on DVD from Classic Media. The Video Treasures VHS labeled the movie as "Godzilla Raids Again" on the box, but the actual film print reads "Gigantis, the Fire Monster".


But yeah, as Goji said, the "Gigantis" title can be had on the Video Treasures VHS from 1989. The "Godzilla Raids Again" re-title has only been released by Classic Media (2006). If you have the film recorded from cable in the '80s or '90s it's probably gonna be "Raids Again," although "Gigantis" was in syndication for a while prior to that.
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Re: Comprehensive Guide to Toho's English Versions

Postby Great Hierophant » Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:50 pm

Terasawa wrote:You know what, maybe there should be a separate "What releases have X version?" thread, since it's a popular question...

The current entry for GRA:

GODZILLA RAIDS AGAIN
-US version entitled "GIGANTIS THE FIRE MONSTER", released in 1959. Almost a new film, what with Godzilla's name being changed to "Gigantis" and all, plus extensive edits. Dubbed at Ryder Sound. Struck from the foreign negative of the film, which has one different special effect (a shot of some optical snow around Kobayashi's plane). Has an additional Angurus roar silenced in the original Japanese version (something inherent to the dubbing M&E track). Ending Warner Bros. logo differs between older 16mm prints and the 35mm sourced Alan Enterprises/CST master.
-A video-generated "GODZILLA RAIDS AGAIN" title first appeared in the '80s when the movie started playing again on television, long before Disney Channel started airing it with the same title. This version is available on DVD from Classic Media. The Video Treasures VHS labeled the movie as "Godzilla Raids Again" on the box, but the actual film print reads "Gigantis, the Fire Monster".


But yeah, as Goji said, the "Gigantis" title can be had on the Video Treasures VHS from 1989. The "Godzilla Raids Again" re-title has only been released by Classic Media (2006). If you have the film recorded from cable in the '80s or '90s it's probably gonna be "Raids Again," although "Gigantis" was in syndication for a while prior to that.


I specifically remember watching "Godzilla Raids Again" on the Disney Channel circa 1996. I never saw the Gigantis title card until over a decade later.

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Re: Comprehensive Guide to Toho's English Versions

Postby Godzilla21 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:29 pm

I remember as a kid being completely confused by the Gigantis card on my Video Treasures VHS. And being 6 years old and pre-internet I didn't exactly have the resources to figure out what the hell that was all about. Nice bit of trivia Terasawa
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