Kaiju Fan Confessions

For discussions covering more than one Toho film or show that span across more than one “era.”
Online
User avatar
eabaker
Seatopian Daikaiju
Posts: 11146
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:16 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby eabaker » Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:05 pm

LSD Jellyfish wrote:
eabaker wrote:
Dr. Professor wrote:To go back to the discussion of Japanese films vs. American films, Shin Godzilla's human scenes alone are more visually interesting than anything I've seen in any recent Hollywood blockbuster.


God yes! All those wide angle close-ups give such a sense of immediacy as the characters speak! And there's one fascinating shot, when Yaguchi and Patterson are talking outside, where the camera steadily pulls back farther and farther, and ends up locking them into the lower right corner as the space to the left just gets bigger and bigger; it's such a strange but lovely move/composition!

I don`t know why but I distinctly remember a moment where Yaguchi is going up some metal stairs, and the closeup of his feet and the sound of them hitting against the metal synch up with the decisive battle theme perfectly. I think the fact that I remembered something so minor is a testament to how great that film is.


Yes! Anno and Higuchi really worked to make every moment distinctive and dynamic.
Tokyo, a smoldering memorial to the unknown, an unknown which at this very moment still prevails and could at any time lash out with its terrible destruction anywhere else in the world.

User avatar
MechaGoji Bro7503
E.S.P.Spy
Posts: 5431
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:02 pm
Location: Black Hole Planet 3
Contact:

Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby MechaGoji Bro7503 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:35 pm

eabaker wrote:
Dr. Professor wrote:To go back to the discussion of Japanese films vs. American films, Shin Godzilla's human scenes alone are more visually interesting than anything I've seen in any recent Hollywood blockbuster.


God yes! All those wide angle close-ups give such a sense of immediacy as the characters speak! And there's one fascinating shot, when Yaguchi and Patterson are talking outside, where the camera steadily pulls back farther and farther, and ends up locking them into the lower right corner as the space to the left just gets bigger and bigger; it's such a strange but lovely move/composition!

Once again here I am agreeing with you two! I do agree with Shin being much more visually interesting than any recent Hollywood blockbuster, I'll even say it's better than most modern American films.
That shot you are refering to E, I believe was to show how the trains could be part of the answer to stopping Godzilla without the use of a nuclear bomb, since the characters were discussing the US's plan in that same scene.
"Bang on, mate.", - Murdoc Niccals 2018.

Dv-218 wrote:This is so sad, Alexa play "Bio-Wars".

Dr. Professor wrote:If I had a dollar for every "SAVE MOTHRA" joke, I'd be able to buy Legendary Pictures, renew the license for Godzilla, acquire the rights to the rest of the Toho monsters, and make a Godzilla film that totally bombs without even putting a dent in my bank account.

"Wake the fruck up Godzilla, we got a city to burn." - Goro Maki, 2016.

User avatar
LSD Jellyfish
Kwaidan
Posts: 6348
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:57 pm
Location: 富士山

Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:17 am

Aww man the mods deleted Goji89’s comment detailing all of us and wondering where the KAIJU-KINO expert Goji Watch was all this time.

I gotta ask him, why he thinks the characters in Shin are garbage or boring. I get that there’s a lot of dialogue, and with subtitles it’s easy to miss, but I find the implications by specific lines very specific and interesting to follow.
_JNavs_ wrote:The MV is like cheap imitation crabmeat, it tastes good, but it isn't real, while Shin is kino peak Japanese performance.

Rodan95 wrote:The Shobijin are sat on by a fatass explorer and killed. Mothra is pissed and destroys Japan.

User avatar
Kaiju-King42
Kwaidan
Posts: 5768
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:34 pm
Location: Monster Island

Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby Kaiju-King42 » Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:45 am

LSD Jellyfish wrote:I gotta ask him, why he thinks the characters in Shin are garbage or boring. I get that there’s a lot of dialogue, and with subtitles it’s easy to miss, but I find the implications by specific lines very specific and interesting to follow.


I can't speak for him, but as someone who shares the same complaint, most of the characters felt extremely flat. Apart from Ann Patterson we never see any of them grow or change over the course of the story, we never get to really know them as people, we don't learn anything about them other than what political position they aspire to be in. That most of their dialogue was loads of exposition about either Godzilla or the nitty gritty details of politics didn't help. I felt too much time was spent explaining the situation and not enough was used to give the cast depth.

I liked Shin, don't get me wrong, but I believe the characters were it's weakest aspect by a significant margin. They don't bring the emotional or personal weight that a disaster film like this should carry.
Godzillian wrote:
Godzilla21 wrote:What is up with the American trope of hide the monster?

Jaws happened


ernesth100 wrote:
Ryguy wrote:When the new director is announced, I guarantee this fanbase will be torn through the middle...

We're always split down the middle. TK is like a giant buttcrack.


Anno wrote:never forget tadpole :godzilla:




User avatar
Terasawa
G-Force Lieutenant
Posts: 2056
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:06 am

Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby Terasawa » Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:51 am

Others’ mileage may vary but I didn’t particularly mind that the characters in Shin were one or two dimensional because to me the film was about how inefficiently the government functions in time of crisis. It’s a “government procedural,” just as any given episode of Law & Order is a police/court procedural.
-- 寺沢 --
YouTube
Save All Dubs

Image

Online
User avatar
eabaker
Seatopian Daikaiju
Posts: 11146
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:16 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby eabaker » Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:26 am

Terasawa wrote:Others’ mileage may vary but I didn’t particularly mind that the characters in Shin were one or two dimensional because to me the film was about how inefficiently the government functions in time of crisis. It’s a “government procedural,” just as any given episode of Law & Order is a police/court procedural.


Yeah, to boil it down to a very basic level, there are two kinds of stories (there aren't only two, but, again, boiling it down):

- Stories about the way situations affect characters

- Stories about the way characters affect situations

Now, in fact, there's a lot of grey area, and ideally in a story some of both happen. Godzilla movies, on the whole, tend to be more the second type than the first, though. And Shin is very much the second type. It is a movie in which a disaster occurs, the world is put in peril, and the situation is resolved only because this very specific group of characters, with their own particular world views and motivations, came together and redirected the course of events.

Of course, the very broad statement I just made could be applied to an awful lot of movies that also have their characters go through greater transformations than the characters in Shin do (and I don't agree that Anne is the only character to evolve; Yaguchi matures significantly over the course of the story). My point is about what Shin emphasizes, though.

I'm also curious now about Goji89's deleted comment.
Tokyo, a smoldering memorial to the unknown, an unknown which at this very moment still prevails and could at any time lash out with its terrible destruction anywhere else in the world.

User avatar
Kaiju-King42
Kwaidan
Posts: 5768
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:34 pm
Location: Monster Island

Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby Kaiju-King42 » Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:19 am

eabaker wrote:My point is about what Shin emphasizes, though.


And I respect that. Hell, the first act of the film is my favorite part. I LOVE the satire.

I feel however that as the film goes on it's more than gotten it's point across, and the relentless exposition gradually becomes a burden on the story's emotional core, particularly after disaster strikes. There's a really well done moment with Yaguchi struggling with the loss of their political leaders and the destruction of Tokyo. I loved that! I just wish there were more scenes like that.

Shin is absolutely an intellectual film, but its emotional weakness, to me at least, just keeps it from reaching something like the Return of Gojira or even G14.
Godzillian wrote:
Godzilla21 wrote:What is up with the American trope of hide the monster?

Jaws happened


ernesth100 wrote:
Ryguy wrote:When the new director is announced, I guarantee this fanbase will be torn through the middle...

We're always split down the middle. TK is like a giant buttcrack.


Anno wrote:never forget tadpole :godzilla:




Online
User avatar
eabaker
Seatopian Daikaiju
Posts: 11146
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:16 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby eabaker » Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:59 am

Kaiju-King42 wrote:
eabaker wrote:My point is about what Shin emphasizes, though.


And I respect that. Hell, the first act of the film is my favorite part. I LOVE the satire.

I feel however that as the film goes on it's more than gotten it's point across, and the relentless exposition gradually becomes a burden on the story's emotional core, particularly after disaster strikes. There's a really well done moment with Yaguchi struggling with the loss of their political leaders and the destruction of Tokyo. I loved that! I just wish there were more scenes like that.

Shin is absolutely an intellectual film, but its emotional weakness, to me at least, just keeps it from reaching something like the Return of Gojira or even G14.


I also would rank it below Return, because I'm ultimately less invested in the characters of Shin. But Return is very near the top of my list of favorite movies in the series, so I'm really just praising Shin with faint damnation there.
Tokyo, a smoldering memorial to the unknown, an unknown which at this very moment still prevails and could at any time lash out with its terrible destruction anywhere else in the world.

User avatar
Dr. Professor
EDF Soldier
Posts: 3553
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:37 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby Dr. Professor » Fri Jun 21, 2019 4:34 pm

eabaker wrote:I also would rank it below Return, because I'm ultimately less invested in the characters of Shin.

Aside from the Prime Minister, I've never been able to get invested in the character of The Return of Godzilla. I've always found them so dull, personally. However, the Prime Minister's political battle is some of the most engaging human drama in the whole franchise.
goji89 wrote: :shock: ...Sweet Yeet

Resized Image

Online
User avatar
eabaker
Seatopian Daikaiju
Posts: 11146
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:16 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby eabaker » Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:00 pm

Dr. Professor wrote:
eabaker wrote:I also would rank it below Return, because I'm ultimately less invested in the characters of Shin.

Aside from the Prime Minister, I've never been able to get invested in the character of The Return of Godzilla. I've always found them so dull, personally. However, the Prime Minister's political battle is some of the most engaging human drama in the whole franchise.


I really like Hayashida (sad as it is that Akihiko Hirata didn't live to play him).

I also saw Godzilla 1985 on the big screen when I was 6 years old, so that movie has a pretty special place in my development as a Godzilla fan.
Tokyo, a smoldering memorial to the unknown, an unknown which at this very moment still prevails and could at any time lash out with its terrible destruction anywhere else in the world.

User avatar
Dr. Professor
EDF Soldier
Posts: 3553
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:37 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby Dr. Professor » Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:22 pm

eabaker wrote:I really like Hayashida (sad as it is that Akihiko Hirata didn't live to play him).

Yeah, Hayashida's pretty cool. I guess it's mostly the other leads that I have a problem with. It definitely would have been really nice to see Hirata in the role. He's probably my favorite recurring actor in the Showa series. It's especially sad knowing how hard he campaigned to get the film made.

I also saw Godzilla 1985 on the big screen when I was 6 years old, so that movie has a pretty special place in my development as a Godzilla fan.

That's true, I forgot you did that. That's super cool. I wish that I liked ROG more than I do. When I watch it I can recognize that it's a great film, but it's never been one of my favorites. I hope that changes some day.
goji89 wrote: :shock: ...Sweet Yeet

Resized Image

Tyrant_Lizard_King
Keizer
Posts: 9367
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:57 am
Location: The Planet Trade HQ
Contact:

Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby Tyrant_Lizard_King » Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:21 am

I was three when Godzilla 1985 came out.
Rocker, paleo buff, cryptid enthusiast, Dragonball fanatic, and lover of comic book, video game, manga, & anime babes!
Follow me on Twitter, if you dare! https://twitter.com/TLK_1983
Image

User avatar
Kaiju-King42
Kwaidan
Posts: 5768
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:34 pm
Location: Monster Island

Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby Kaiju-King42 » Sat Jun 22, 2019 2:55 pm

I was born in the 90s and G2K never came to Canadian theaters...

The first Godzilla movie I EVER got to enjoy in theaters was LPG. For that reason alone it holds a very special spot in my heart.
Godzillian wrote:
Godzilla21 wrote:What is up with the American trope of hide the monster?

Jaws happened


ernesth100 wrote:
Ryguy wrote:When the new director is announced, I guarantee this fanbase will be torn through the middle...

We're always split down the middle. TK is like a giant buttcrack.


Anno wrote:never forget tadpole :godzilla:




Tyrant_Lizard_King
Keizer
Posts: 9367
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:57 am
Location: The Planet Trade HQ
Contact:

Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby Tyrant_Lizard_King » Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:49 pm

1985 is still my favorite Godzilla movie. Shin is 3rd. I know 85 gets a lot of flack for how it was Americanized but I just enjoy the pacing. Watching Return just felt off to me because I was so use to the more exciting pace of 85, especially during the nuclear plant attack scene. I also love how it feels slightly like a spy/political thriller.
Rocker, paleo buff, cryptid enthusiast, Dragonball fanatic, and lover of comic book, video game, manga, & anime babes!
Follow me on Twitter, if you dare! https://twitter.com/TLK_1983
Image

User avatar
Terasawa
G-Force Lieutenant
Posts: 2056
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:06 am

Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby Terasawa » Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:57 pm

I think there's the germ of a good movie in The Return of Godzilla but in execution it mostly falls flat for me. I like the way G85 tightens up the pacing but I don't think the new scenes add a lot and unfortunately their inclusion ended up in the removal of a number of key scenes with Keiju Kobayashi's Prime Minister.
-- 寺沢 --
YouTube
Save All Dubs

Image

Online
User avatar
eabaker
Seatopian Daikaiju
Posts: 11146
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:16 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby eabaker » Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:56 pm

I prefer the pacing in the Japanese cut. The best way I can describe it is that it's a movie that breathes.
Tokyo, a smoldering memorial to the unknown, an unknown which at this very moment still prevails and could at any time lash out with its terrible destruction anywhere else in the world.

User avatar
LSD Jellyfish
Kwaidan
Posts: 6348
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:57 pm
Location: 富士山

Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby LSD Jellyfish » Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:06 pm

I saw Godzilla 2000 when I was 4, weirdly enough I could’ve sworn I was older when I saw it, but the dates match up.
_JNavs_ wrote:The MV is like cheap imitation crabmeat, it tastes good, but it isn't real, while Shin is kino peak Japanese performance.

Rodan95 wrote:The Shobijin are sat on by a fatass explorer and killed. Mothra is pissed and destroys Japan.

Tyrant_Lizard_King
Keizer
Posts: 9367
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:57 am
Location: The Planet Trade HQ
Contact:

Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby Tyrant_Lizard_King » Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:01 pm

I've only watched Return once years ago so my memory on it is pretty vague. Hopefully I can find the time to remedy that now that I have it on Bluray.
Rocker, paleo buff, cryptid enthusiast, Dragonball fanatic, and lover of comic book, video game, manga, & anime babes!
Follow me on Twitter, if you dare! https://twitter.com/TLK_1983
Image

User avatar
Godzillian
Kwaidan
Posts: 5788
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:36 pm

Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby Godzillian » Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:42 am

eabaker wrote:I prefer the pacing in the Japanese cut. The best way I can describe it is that it's a movie that breathes.

Agreed, ROG knows when to take a breath and not rush itself
Image

User avatar
Kaiju-King42
Kwaidan
Posts: 5768
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:34 pm
Location: Monster Island

Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Postby Kaiju-King42 » Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:32 pm

You guys have to give the Godzilla: Ressurection fan cut a try. It really combines the best aspects of RoG and G85 very well.
Godzillian wrote:
Godzilla21 wrote:What is up with the American trope of hide the monster?

Jaws happened


ernesth100 wrote:
Ryguy wrote:When the new director is announced, I guarantee this fanbase will be torn through the middle...

We're always split down the middle. TK is like a giant buttcrack.


Anno wrote:never forget tadpole :godzilla:





Return to “General Toho Films”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests