Kaiju Fan Confessions

For discussions covering more than one Toho film or show that span across more than one “era.”
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Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Post by GodzillavsRayquaza »

I do not like Gamera vs Barugon. It’s mostly fine, but the third act of the movie slows everything to a damn crawl and makes it unbearably boring. So much of everything after Gamera gets frozen is unnecessary, the main human characters feel like an afterthought throughout the multiple military plans to kill Barugon that go nowhere and just pad time.
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Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

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GodzillavsRayquaza wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 12:06 pm I do not like Gamera vs Barugon. It’s mostly fine, but the third act of the movie slows everything to a damn crawl and makes it unbearably boring. So much of everything after Gamera gets frozen is unnecessary, the main human characters feel like an afterthought throughout the multiple military plans to kill Barugon that go nowhere and just pad time.
Try watching the original American version, War of the Monsters: it went straight to TV so they had to cut the film to get it under ninety minutes. Most of the cuts are during the third act, and pretty much everything you don't like ended up on the cutting room floor.
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Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Post by edgaguirus »

I think G vs Gigan has some of the best city destruction scenes of the Showa period.
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Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

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edgaguirus wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 9:52 pm I think G vs Gigan has some of the best city destruction scenes of the Showa period.
Hell yeah it did. I liked Gigan sawing through a building.

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Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Post by Chrispy_G »

Terasawa wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 1:34 pm
GodzillavsRayquaza wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 12:06 pm I do not like Gamera vs Barugon. It’s mostly fine, but the third act of the movie slows everything to a damn crawl and makes it unbearably boring. So much of everything after Gamera gets frozen is unnecessary, the main human characters feel like an afterthought throughout the multiple military plans to kill Barugon that go nowhere and just pad time.
Try watching the original American version, War of the Monsters: it went straight to TV so they had to cut the film to get it under ninety minutes. Most of the cuts are during the third act, and pretty much everything you don't like ended up on the cutting room floor.
That's the only version of the movie I watch. For me, the Gamera Showa films tend to be best when they are the leanest and meanest possible. Not a knock on them...that sort of style just feels better when it moves along at a faster clip.

I always find myself wishing that something like Super Monster had a "butchered" edit that brought it down to something like 70 minutes. One thing I always did appreciate about All Monsters Attack is that it doesn't overstay its welcome.
Last edited by Chrispy_G on Mon May 17, 2021 8:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

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Chrispy_G wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 8:22 pm
Terasawa wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 1:34 pm
GodzillavsRayquaza wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 12:06 pm I do not like Gamera vs Barugon. It’s mostly fine, but the third act of the movie slows everything to a damn crawl and makes it unbearably boring. So much of everything after Gamera gets frozen is unnecessary, the main human characters feel like an afterthought throughout the multiple military plans to kill Barugon that go nowhere and just pad time.
Try watching the original American version, War of the Monsters: it went straight to TV so they had to cut the film to get it under ninety minutes. Most of the cuts are during the third act, and pretty much everything you don't like ended up on the cutting room floor.
That's the only version of the movie I watch. For me, the Gamera Showa films tend to be best when they are the leanest and meanest possible. Not a knock on them...that sort of style just feels better when it moves along at a faster clip.
I'm a defender of most of the Showa Gamera films, but I do think many of the films can be significantly edited down without much loss in meaning, and even still maintaining the childlike wonderment (ie, not just cutting out most of the scenes with the kids). For example, in Gamera vs. Guiron there's a lot of repetitive wandering around and boring as sin chase sequences that don't add much, as well as what feels like deliberative filler.

Have their been any fan edits of the Japanese Gamera films before?
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Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Post by ROMG4 »

Godzilla King Of The Monsters' (2019) soundtrack and sound-effects fit so much of what I was hoping to see in 2014 but didn't expect would happen, it was brilliant hearing 54, 84 ,and classic Showa roar in theaters ontop of the utterly brilliant sounding soundtrack from Bear Mccreary (The Godzilla march in theaters was just brilliant). However I also am glad that GVK went back to the 2014 style roar and aesthetic for Godzilla.

Gareth and his team spent a massive amount of time on producing Godzilla's roar and various sounds it was even a major push in the marketing and it shows, 2014 has some of the best monster sound effects let alone sound-effects created for movies in the past few years. its a brilliant sounding roar and a big part of the Monsterverse's DNA. Whether the series continues to use the 2014 or KOTM style direction in sound-effects I am happy either-way because I really like and see the benefits of both

I'd really like to see the original 2014 theme return or be rescored by Bear Mccreary because its really grown on me in the past few years
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Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

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ROMG4 wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:38 am it was brilliant hearing 54, 84 ,and classic Showa roar
Was there really an 84 roar in there? I don’t remember there being one...
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Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Post by SoggyNoodles2016 »

While it's an overall a more objectively worse movie to its predecessor, I prefer King Kong 76 to King Kong 33. What it does that is good just vibes with me more then what I like about 33.
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Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Post by DirektorSplennic »

The Heisei Era Godzilla movies (especially the later ones) have ridiculously flat cinematography compared to what I've seen of the Heisei Gamera trilogy, and it makes me wish Kaneko did more Godzilla movies. The later Heisei movies were one of the things that introduced me to Godzilla and I love them to death but seeing what was done with Gamera around the same time really makes me want more Kaneko Godzilla.

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Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

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SoggyNoodles2016 wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 5:32 pm While it's an overall a more objectively worse movie to its predecessor, I prefer King Kong 76 to King Kong 33. What it does that is good just vibes with me more then what I like about 33.
I see you're a man of great taste as well, for I too prefer the 70's Kong over the 33.

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Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

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Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Post by KingKong2005 »

DirektorSplennic wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 7:11 pm The Heisei Era Godzilla movies (especially the later ones) have ridiculously flat cinematography compared to what I've seen of the Heisei Gamera trilogy, and it makes me wish Kaneko did more Godzilla movies. The later Heisei movies were one of the things that introduced me to Godzilla and I love them to death but seeing what was done with Gamera around the same time really makes me want more Kaneko Godzilla.
So so true. But one of the most beautifully shot films in the Godzilla franchise, to me, is Godzilla Vs Mothra: Battle for Earth! Mothra's hatching scene has not aged!
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Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

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DirektorSplennic wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 7:11 pm The Heisei Era Godzilla movies (especially the later ones) have ridiculously flat cinematography compared to what I've seen of the Heisei Gamera trilogy, and it makes me wish Kaneko did more Godzilla movies. The later Heisei movies were one of the things that introduced me to Godzilla and I love them to death but seeing what was done with Gamera around the same time really makes me want more Kaneko Godzilla.
Yeah, I'd say that of the Okawara-directed entries, G2000 is the only one that has much in the way of interesting compositions (at least in its human drama), which I think is due partly to Okawara's excitement to work in scope, and partly due to the return of Biollante cinematographer Yudai Kato. But even there, it definitely lacks the dynamism of Kaneko's work.
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Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Post by Chrispy_G »

Some seemed to find it funny that I listed 'tonal inconsistency' as one of my dislikes for some previous eras, but that I love the Monsterverse.

Put aside that 'tonal inconsistency' was just ONE of the issues I brought up...wrapped up with other grievances with those eras like the silly entries, or ridiculous time travel plots, or repetitive alien invasion plots, overall poor handling of continuity and consistency....

There IS a different between tonal inconsistency and tonal diversity.

Each Monsterverse film explores a different realm and aspect of the world. They can share continuity and share a world without sharing a distinct, unifying style. Kong takes place in a bubble on an island with "smaller" monsters. Godzilla debuts several massive creatures into the world we know. King of the Monsters showcases just how many of these creatures there are and establishes where they come from. Godzilla vs Kong explores where they come from.

They all have their own identity for a reason.

Yes...ALL of it is subjective and can come down to something as simple as "this works for me and this doesn't, I find this annoying and not that, this is stupid and this isn't"

I have a disdain for time travel plot lines because they pretty much always create more trouble in the narrative than they are worth. Going from something that feels like a certain kind of sci-fi with Godzilla vs Biollante to something like Godzilla vs King Ghidorah and the time travel nonsense, to Godzilla vs Mothra, or Godzilla vs SpaceGodzilla....for me, that doesn't work, just as the spiral into the 70s films doesn't work for the Showa era....that's more of a weird twist of style and execution that going from Godzilla 2014 to Godzilla vs Kong.

It doesn't make those movies terrible or make me hate them, those are just the SERIOUS ISSUES that I have with those eras that makes them more tedious to revisit.

Hell...I would even go as far as to say 'Monsterverse is a good example of evolving and shifting tone and style, while earlier eras are not'

I am well aware of the more old-schooll perspective on this subject, though.
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Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Post by LSD Jellyfish »

Chrispy_G wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 11:58 am Some seemed to find it funny that I listed 'tonal inconsistency' as one of my dislikes for some previous eras, but that I love the Monsterverse.

Put aside that 'tonal inconsistency' was just ONE of the issues I brought up...wrapped up with other grievances with those eras like the silly entries, or ridiculous time travel plots, or repetitive alien invasion plots, overall poor handling of continuity and consistency....

There IS a different between tonal inconsistency and tonal diversity.

Each Monsterverse film explores a different realm and aspect of the world. They can share continuity and share a world without sharing a distinct, unifying style. Kong takes place in a bubble on an island with "smaller" monsters. Godzilla debuts several massive creatures into the world we know. King of the Monsters showcases just how many of these creatures there are and establishes where they come from. Godzilla vs Kong explores where they come from.

They all have their own identity for a reason.

Yes...ALL of it is subjective and can come down to something as simple as "this works for me and this doesn't, I find this annoying and not that, this is stupid and this isn't"

I have a disdain for time travel plot lines because they pretty much always create more trouble in the narrative than they are worth. Going from something that feels like a certain kind of sci-fi with Godzilla vs Biollante to something like Godzilla vs King Ghidorah and the time travel nonsense, to Godzilla vs Mothra, or Godzilla vs SpaceGodzilla....for me, that doesn't work, just as the spiral into the 70s films doesn't work for the Showa era....that's more of a weird twist of style and execution that going from Godzilla 2014 to Godzilla vs Kong.

It doesn't make those movies terrible or make me hate them, those are just the SERIOUS ISSUES that I have with those eras that makes them more tedious to revisit.

Hell...I would even go as far as to say 'Monsterverse is a good example of evolving and shifting tone and style, while earlier eras are not'

I am well aware of the more old-schooll perspective on this subject, though.
Tonal inconsistency between films isn't an issue. Tonal Inconsistency in a specific film is. I like that all four of the Monsterverse films are visually and tonally distinct.
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Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

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I had a recent discussion with a friend that prompted this, but here we goooo

While there is definite excitement and wishes for Toho to go back to making live action Godzilla, there is a part of me that’s curious, but not excited, if that makes sense. A lot of Toho’s recent takes on Godzilla have been... weird, to put it bluntly. Some good, like Shin. Others which felt like change for the sake of change, with missed opportunity like Monster Planet. (Haven’t seen enough of Singular Point to judge, but it looks cool kinda.)

I know a lot of people love the newer takes, and more power to them! But I kinda want to see more traditional Godzilla again. Something that builds upon the lore and history while also feeling like a natural upgrade for the character. While I have been unsubtle with my love for the Monsterverse, what I like is that they treat the monsters with respect, and expand upon what works. That’s probably the main reason I’ve been so focused on it tbh.

I guess what I want for Reiwa is a more traditional Godzilla to follow. It doesn’t need to copy Monsterverse, nor does it need to be as different as Shin or Singular Point. All I want is to see Toho’s take on an anti hero Godzilla facing off against monsters new and old again. But if they want to keep to making each new entry weirder then the last, that’s fair and I’m okay with that. Just as long as it doesn’t come at the cost of the other iterations. Like, if we get traditional Godzilla with the MV and unique Godzillas with Toho, I guess I’ll settle. But at the end of the day, I want to see Toho go back to traditional someday.
Last edited by Dynomy-DX on Wed May 26, 2021 5:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reignited... and hopefully less weird this time around.

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Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Post by Major sssspielberg! »

Dynomy-DX wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 5:48 am All I want is to see Toho’s take on an anti hero Godzilla facing off against monsters new and old again.
To be fair there was about twenty years of just that which got the series nowhere but suspended animation for ten years. I think the lesson Toho took from Shin Godzilla was "HMM this Godzilla was WEIRD and did BIG MONEY" which admittedly is only a fraction of why Shin succeeded. To them I'm sure it's an easy way to avoid the stagnation the series fell into, so I'm betting we're getting weird shapeshifting Godzilla for a while now.
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Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

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Major sssspielberg! wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 6:44 am
Dynomy-DX wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 5:48 am All I want is to see Toho’s take on an anti hero Godzilla facing off against monsters new and old again.
To be fair there was about twenty years of just that which got the series nowhere but suspended animation for ten years. I think the lesson Toho took from Shin Godzilla was "HMM this Godzilla was WEIRD and did BIG MONEY" which admittedly is only a fraction of why Shin succeeded. To them I'm sure it's an easy way to avoid the stagnation the series fell into, so I'm betting we're getting weird shapeshifting Godzilla for a while now.
That’s more than fair. Toho probably knows more than anything how non traditional Godzilla sells HUGE. Especially with Shin in play.

That being said, I think the main issue back then was the yearly releases that eventually burnt out the audience. I’m sure with a proper thought out plan that takes it’s time more, we could get a better overall reception. Then again, I’m not the head of Toho. That plan is probably more risky than it needs to be compared to what they got already, so hey.
Reignited... and hopefully less weird this time around.

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Re: Kaiju Fan Confessions

Post by JAGzilla »

I don't like Ultraseven all that much. I'm about halfway through, up to the episode with the fortune teller, so maybe the best is yet to come, but.... it's really just not doing much for me. Ultraman's characters may have been more cartoonish, but at least they stood out and I can remember their names. These guys just run together.

And while Ultraman shoehorning a kaiju battle into every episode got stale, the cackling, moustache-twirling, kamikaze killer alien of the week doesn't exactly stay riveting, either. You get the occasional mildly interesting villain, but at the end of the day every single one is irredeemably evil, and every single one refuses all attempts at compromise or negotiation and has to be killed. It just ends up feeling like what the show is really trying to say is that everything foreign or unknown is automatically bad and wants to hurt you. And then you have things like that episode encouraging kids to spy on and report their neighbors. Like, Jesus. You think this show was made during the Cold War? :lol: I get that it's just how things were at the time, and it is interesting as a time capsule, but it's still depressing. I'll take a hopeful Star Trek future over this any day.
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