Mothra/Fairies: Pure Hearted Heroes, or Menaces to Humanity?

[_JNavs_]

Meh i'd just like to see a switch up instead of the same typical fairy good guy role stuff.

If Mothra deals with "evil", which is subjective, then there is no reason to believe she'd allow humans to continue to tread so heavily on Earth.

The idea of an island of natives who worship a god, not out of love and respect, but out of fear and discipline in a cult-like fashion is a bit more outside the box.

But it's not out of the box. I just explained in my previous response to you that the idea of primitive people worshiping evil or mindless killer monsters is extremely cliched and extremely old. H. P. Lovecraft, and Weird Tales magazine as a whole, wrote too many stories like this to count. I also explained that your suggestion has often been written in a way that is thoughtlessly racist, and it simplifies what actual religious practices and morally ambiguous deities are like.

Oh sorry, i hadn't seen those. Yeah i could see how it could be interpreted as a bit stereotypical or even racist. But my intention was more along the lines of no specifically raced tribe, as well as the tribe being stuck in a Maze Runner-like scenario that grew to be a looney cult. For example, anyone who tries to leave would be viciously mauled (or something of the sort). So they kinda grew and adapted to fit this kind of forced ideology/religion.

I actually enjoy the way Lovecraft did the whole "worshipping evil" thing, so that may be why i find a similar idea to be not so far fetched when it comes to an unknown variable like Mothra and her people. For me, i think the whole good guy schtick should remain subjective, just as some may think Godzilla is a hero, others believe he's a villain. Now my interpretation above probably teeters too far into the evil territory rather than morally ambiguous but the concept stands.

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But I guess this could only really work if the other group be antagonistic in some form. Like if the movie made it clear by the end that the government who viewed them as a fanatic cult where the true antagonists. Otherwise I could see how this would turn into an issue.

Yeah essentially just make everyone out to have their own dark side. Like, there is no "all-good" or "all evil", everyone and everything is morally ambiguous.

Now yeah that's probably too dark for a character like Mothra, but it just doubles down that idea of Mothra being a morally ambiguous beast, rather than an all-good hero.

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(The twins murdering people would be extremely twisted and i'm sure there aren't many ppl who could see that play out, but it'd play into that whole upside down cult thing)

[Ultragodzillafan]

And, I’m back. Been awhile.

After watching the Rebirth of Mothra Trilogy, I believe that Mothra/Mothra Leo and the Elias are pretty much innocent. Throughout the films, they seem to show more care and concern to the humans as well as nature. Both Mothras go out of their way to save humans, even suffering severe injuries and one case dying for them. The Elias seem to be slightly more thoughtful as well, like in the first movie where they debate whether they should summon the elder Mothra who was dying of old age, but were left with no other options. While yes, people are unintentionally put in danger, usually children, it’s usually a result of coincidence rather than knowingly placing them in that position, and the Elias try to defend them, but have difficulty doing so while trying to support Mothra, as seen in ROM2. The only thing I have against them is their willingness to let Belvera escape so easily at the end of the first movie. Though this was rectified by having her go through something of a redemption arc in the other two movies, there really wasn’t a way to know at the time. And after watching the trilogy, it made me think of something. These movies seem to embody the famdom’s typical mental image of Mothra, so much so that I believe it might be the reason behind that mindset. But enough about those musings. The verdict for the Rebirth timeline Mothra is innocent. While many of you were willing to defend past versions of Mothra, I’m kinda curious if anyone could find any reason to consider this Mothra guilty. I’ll let you decide on that. Next up to be judged: SOS Mothra.

[edgaguirus]

SOS Mothra is more hero. The kaiju defends humans against Godzilla, though it is offended by them trapping a soul inside a metal body. This Mothra doesn't wait till humans do as it wants before going into battle and ultimately dying. You could argue the dying part was to defend the caterpillars, but Mothra still gave all to stop Godzilla. I'd say the same for the fairies. They genuinely want to aide mankind despite the things it has done.

[eabaker]

And after watching the trilogy, it made me think of something. These movies seem to embody the famdom’s typical mental image of Mothra, so much so that I believe it might be the reason behind that mindset.

You're speculating that a significant aspect of the fandom's conception of a character who was introduced in 1960, whose most popular movie among fans was made in 1964, and whose most financially successful movie was made in 1992, is defined by a moderately successful and heavily derided trilogy made from 1996-1998?

I find that somewhat dubious. More likely, to my mind, is that Toho's creative team was working from what they already knew to be a popular conception of the character.

[edgaguirus]

I take it the serialized novel Mothra was based on showed Mothra as a benevolent character?

[GodzillaFan1990's]

Debatable being menaces. I know in Tokyo S.O.S. that Mothra was gonna declare war on humans just because they took the bones of the 1954 Godzilla out of its resting place. Which sounds like a pretty petty reason, I mean...They're just bones for crying out loud. What about all the other bones of various animals across the world notably whales at the bottom of the sea?

[Gigantis]

Debatable being menaces. I know in Tokyo S.O.S. that Mothra was gonna declare war on humans just because they took the bones of the 1954 Godzilla out of its resting place. Which sounds like a pretty petty reason, I mean...They're just bones for crying out loud. What about all the other bones of various animals across the world notably whales at the bottom of the sea?

Well to be fair, he did come back to life. Any other animal bones do that?

[GodzillaFan1990's]

Well to be fair, he did come back to life. Any other animal bones do that?

Still don't understand why Mothra was getting so riled up about it. Ain't like it was a threat to the entire world.

Also pretty petty to declare war on ALL humanity when it's just a certain couple of people and billions not involved with the bones. Doesn't sound like Mothra. Wasn't like her fairies were involved being threatened either.

Always felt more like something like Battra.

[SoggyNoodles2016]

Debatable being menaces. I know in Tokyo S.O.S. that Mothra was gonna declare war on humans just because they took the bones of the 1954 Godzilla out of its resting place. Which sounds like a pretty petty reason, I mean...They're just bones for crying out loud. What about all the other bones of various animals across the world notably whales at the bottom of the sea?

Tokyo S.O.S sucks so its hard to tell, but the gist is Mothra is pissed because the bones were used to build Kiryu and bring 1954 Godzilla back to life. It isn't the bones itself, it's that humanity is fucking with the natural order, especially to make another weapon.

It def isn't the best reason and works more for Battra, but it's solid reasoning.

If only they had her go though with it instead of instantly going back to hero the minute Godzilla shows up.....

[GodzillaFan1990's]

Tokyo S.O.S sucks so its hard to tell, but the gist is Mothra is pissed because the bones were used to build Kiryu and bring 1954 Godzilla back to life. It isn't the bones itself, it's that humanity is skreeonking with the natural order, especially to make another weapon.

It def isn't the best reason and works more for Battra, but it's solid reasoning.

If only they had her go though with it instead of instantly going back to hero the minute Godzilla shows up.....

But why on ALL humanity? Billions of innocents that have no part in the 1954 Godzilla's bones besides just focusing on the very few that removed his bones from his resting place?

Maybe there's a deeper meaning to it that I'm missing...

[MechaGoji Bro7503]

Debatable being menaces. I know in Tokyo S.O.S. that Mothra was gonna declare war on humans just because they took the bones of the 1954 Godzilla out of its resting place. Which sounds like a pretty petty reason, I mean...They're just bones for crying out loud. What about all the other bones of various animals across the world notably whales at the bottom of the sea?

I mean the bones caused another Godzilla to rise up and wreck Japan, he'd most likely target the rest of the world. Not to mention the bones of an atomic monster that decimated the world's largest city is probably worth more than any other creature.

The Kiryu saga suffers from its writing, but I mean a Godzilla harming people because of what people did is a no-brainer threat to human existence.

[NSZ]

Tokyo S.O.S sucks so its hard to tell, but the gist is Mothra is pissed because the bones were used to build Kiryu and bring 1954 Godzilla back to life. It isn't the bones itself, it's that humanity is skreeonking with the natural order, especially to make another weapon.

It def isn't the best reason and works more for Battra, but it's solid reasoning.

If only they had her go though with it instead of instantly going back to hero the minute Godzilla shows up.....

But why on ALL humanity? Billions of innocents that have no part in the 1954 Godzilla's bones besides just focusing on the very few that removed his bones from his resting place?

Maybe there's a deeper meaning to it that I'm missing...

The meaning is right there, don't mess with the goddamn natural order of things, especially just to make yet another tool of mass destruction.

That might sound like something that Battra should be getting up in arms about instead of Mothra, but what is Battra other than the Old Testament God-type vengeful pettiness of the OG Mothra split off into its own monster? She imparted so much wanton destruction onto innocent parties in retribution for the actions of one capitalist pig, and given that the OG Mothra is what's in continuity to the Kiryu saga here, not Showa, not Heisei, not Leo, the threat checks out as being totally in character.

The only error made was not having her follow through with said threat.

[GodzillaFan1990's]

Fair points.

[edgaguirus]

The fairies might have something to do with Mothra's merciful qualities. They did convince an elderly Mothra to leave her comfortable island bed to fight and then die on a strange shore. If it was just Mothra, the kaiju might not be so kind. It's the fairies intervention and understanding of people that convinces Mothra that humans aren't all bad and deserve second chances. That would explain why Mothra is willing to destroy and kill anything in its path to keep them safe. Without their guiding conscience, Mothra goes on autopilot and doesn't care. This would explain the actions of the Showa, Heisei, and SOS Mothra.

[eabaker]

The fairies might have something to do with Mothra's merciful qualities. They did convince an elderly Mothra to leave her comfortable island bed to fight and then die on a strange shore. If it was just Mothra, the kaiju might not be so kind. It's the fairies intervention and understanding of people that convinces Mothra that humans aren't all bad and deserve second chances.

In Mothra vs. Godzilla - as opposed to the Americanized "Godzilla vs. the Thing" - I believe it's the other way around: the Shobijin side more with the natives, but Mothra herself decides to go fight Godzilla.

[Breakdown]

Debatable being menaces. I know in Tokyo S.O.S. that Mothra was gonna declare war on humans just because they took the bones of the 1954 Godzilla out of its resting place. Which sounds like a pretty petty reason, I mean...They're just bones for crying out loud. What about all the other bones of various animals across the world notably whales at the bottom of the sea?

The only error made was not having her follow through with said threat.

As if the JSDF wouldn't just deploy Kiryu to utterly obliterate Mothra and her offspring. It was a pretty laughable threat, all things considered.

[H-Man]

I've been pondering different ideas for kaiju stories, especially after the remark that Cloverfan made about Shin Godzilla being a final project for a political science major; the anime trilogy being a final project for a philosophy major; and Godzilla Singular Point being a final project for a STEM major.

I thought about a Mothra story as told by an anthropology major. It might be an analysis of Infant Island's religion--rites, ceremonies, dogmas and tenants with regards to family, sexuality, eschatology, etc. Perhaps they have a pantheon that goes (or at least went) beyond Mothra. Perhaps there was a war between their god-kaiju during time immemorial, and only Mothra and a couple of others survived. Perhaps the Shobijin (or Cosmos or Alias) have other activities, duties, roles, etc. whenever they're not spiritually supporting Mothra.

Then I looked around and found this thread and saw that some people had already pondered the same thing.

[LegendZilla]

If they really did turn Mothra evil, how will it be any different than turning Liu Kang into an evil Revenant in Mortal Kombat?

[Jetty_Jags]

I've been pondering different ideas for kaiju stories, especially after the remark that Cloverfan made about Shin Godzilla being a final project for a political science major; the anime trilogy being a final project for a philosophy major; and Godzilla Singular Point being a final project for a STEM major.

I thought about a Mothra story as told by an anthropology major. It might be an analysis of Infant Island's religion--rites, ceremonies, dogmas and tenants with regards to family, sexuality, eschatology, etc. Perhaps they have a pantheon that goes (or at least went) beyond Mothra. Perhaps there was a war between their god-kaiju during time immemorial, and only Mothra and a couple of others survived. Perhaps the Shobijin (or Cosmos or Alias) have other activities, duties, roles, etc. whenever they're not spiritually supporting Mothra.

Then I looked around and found this thread and saw that some people had already pondered the same thing.

I want this now