Annoying Opinions Other Fans Have About Godzilla Films

[godjacob]

I think a movie called "Godzilla vs. Kong" is the wrong place to look for lack of "fanservice" as the entire film is about what most fans want: To see Godzilla and Kong fight on the big screen. Seems we least get a new monster Kong fights on Skull Island to continue the trend of original beasts in the MonsterVerse rather than just only retreads of Toho classics.

[Dyrakro]

It's actually this potential of no Toho kaijus being part of GvK that does keep my interest.

If they manage to bring back some of the atmosphere of the 2014 movie, I'm all in for 2021.

[MogeGoji1994]

For me, I really hope GvK is able to combine the atmosphere of all the previous MV films. The terrifying atmosphere and reality of kaiju from 2014, the extremely clean and tight balance between good human plot and monster action, as well as a "fun adventure" theme from KSI, and the complete marvel and joy of seeing these kaiju in all their power and glory, as well as the (in my opinion) incredible action and soundtrack of KOTM. Plus, hopefully, a bit of its own style. I do think GvK has the ability to be the best MV movie yet, and perhaps install itself as a classic film of this era moving forward

[Desghidorah]

Bit more of a kaiju genre gripe than just a Godzilla gripe, but I do get annoyed at some folks over-glorifying the Heisei Gamera trilogy. They're good, great even IMHO; but some seem to think even the worst aspects of them are still better than the best aspects of other continuities or installments in either Godzilla or Gamera's run. Good stuff to be rightfully praised aside, a majority of the side characters in Heisei Gamera I find no more memorable than typical fair. G3 gets hung up on a lot of questions and has multiple subplots that don't really amount to much, G2's female lead was downright aggravating to watch with how monotone she was and her final line seems downright demented, and barely anyone not named Asagi contributes much to GotU's finale. Just because it was darker and more serious than most kaiju films doesn't automatically make it better; and to be frank I see them get a pass for things other films get condemned for.

[HedorahIsBestGirl]

Just because it was darker and more serious than most kaiju films doesn't automatically make it better; and to be frank I see them get a pass for things other films get condemned for.

To be honest, Gamera 3 is the only one - and one of the few kaiju films - that I'd call truly "dark." GOTU and Legion weren't really any darker than the Heisei Godzilla films, in my opinion.

You mentioned the underdeveloped side characters, a common problem in kaiju fare, but could you specify what other things you think these films get an unfair pass for? I'm a pretty big fan, so I'm curious what your gripes are. For my money, the Gamera trilogy tops pretty much any Godzilla movie in most regards.

[Spuro]

Just because it was darker and more serious than most kaiju films doesn't automatically make it better

I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone claim otherwise. This is Tohokingdom. The board that, overall, prefers the sillier Godzilla Showa era over the mostly serious Heisei and Millennium eras.

[Desghidorah]

Just because it was darker and more serious than most kaiju films doesn't automatically make it better

I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone claim otherwise. This is Tohokingdom. The board that, overall, prefers the sillier Godzilla Showa era over the mostly serious Heisei and Millennium eras.

For clarity I didn't specifically mean Tohokingdom, threads about the entire fandom.

Just because it was darker and more serious than most kaiju films doesn't automatically make it better; and to be frank I see them get a pass for things other films get condemned for.

To be honest, Gamera 3 is the only one - and one of the few kaiju films - that I'd call truly "dark." GOTU and Legion weren't really any darker than the Heisei Godzilla films, in my opinion.

You mentioned the underdeveloped side characters, a common problem in kaiju fare, but could you specify what other things you think these films get an unfair pass for? I'm a pretty big fan, so I'm curious what your gripes are. For my money, the Gamera trilogy tops pretty much any Godzilla movie in most regards.

Understand I say all of this while loving the Heisei Gamera films to bits. I'm a big lore junkie and directly used their tone and pacing as reference for my own novel. This is just me reacting to how others have. What I'm on about is the fi;ms being seen as perfect without any of the flaws others in the genre suffer. If someone loves em and sees them as top of the line, that's fine. I'm just not fond of other installments getting mud slung at them for things Heisei Gamera did as well.

"Lack of engagement by the humans", as if all the Heisei Gamera characters played big roles in the finales of the three films. This is something that many Godzilla films are also guilty of, the 'human watch, monsters fight' shtick with nothing else happening. But a vast majority of the Heisei Gamera's human cast do very little in the respective finales, with Asagi as a marked exception in 1 and 3. Others exist like Colonel Watarase helping get the radio towers set up and fighting off a symbiotic legion in G2, but these are more exceptions. In 1 and 3 especially, almost nothing the human cast do besides the magatama link really impact the finales or even most of the plot. And I have seen this done well in other films. Gamera the Brave had virtually all of the main cast involved in the big relay of getting the red stone to Toto, and most of the Monster'verse films are pretty good at having the non-kaiju cast do something to impact the larger events (Ford blowing up the nest, Gray Fox crew helping give Kong cover, Emma distracting Ghidorah, etc.).

"Shoddy battles", as if every single scene in the Heisei Gamera films had a very well choreographed and shot fight. Oh don't get me wrong, many are pretty good and I even contend the flying scenes are by far some of the best in the genre. I do believe a turtle god can fly! But the ground fights can vary some. Most of the Super Gyaos fights were pretty good, but a majority of the Legion fight was Gamera pushing at her and getting stabbed. Most of the ground fight between Gamera and Iris literally was them shoving the other around and Gamera getting stabbed. There still are parts that work very very well, but saying they were perfect through and through while also griping about shoddy moments in other series' fights is a bit hypocritical and something I have seen done.

"Consistent and clear lore", is something I see thrown around with Heisei Gamera's mythology and this is technically right, but I do have to ask this. The mythology in the films is concrete. But is it really clear on first viewing? Is it clear without any outside material? Is there no way to misinterpret what's going on? Gamera 3 especially is guilty of this, and to some audiences this can dampen the experience. The constant question asking means the lore isn't nearly as clear as some might find after their eureka moments. Sometimes it's just easier to be upfront. The Heisei Gamera series has some great lore, but one can't really have it both ways of being complex and yet also very clear. By contrast, some of the same fans expressing admiration for Heisei Gamera's lore also express confusion or frustration at details like what's going on in Gamera the Brave ("Why does Zedus exist? Why does a government group study monsters?") when such is either spelled out very blatantly or just that simple (in this case, Zedus exists because the intro clearly shows kaiju are a known feature in that world and the government group was explained several times as tied to such). To mention the series again, Monster'Verse had some criticism lobbied against it by time of KOTM when we found out about the Hollow Earth civilizations and how the titan structure works, when the film does explain both pretty well (not only via exposition by an archaeologist and animal behaviorist, but showing us the locations).

And you already mentioned underdeveloped characters, which kinda is something I see trumpeted a lot. I recently hosted an event month on a pretty populous Discord server, in which each week we saw an entry in the Heisei trilogy + the Brave as a bonus. Most of the members on said server were kaiju fans and about half either hadn't seen the Gamera films or hadn't seen them in a long time. Each airing averaged about 18 people tuning in on the Saturday stream and then another 16 or so in the rerun stream Sunday, so there was a healthy pool of reactions. Despite a lot of talk about the Gamera cast being well developed and engaging, and the films being very well received, quite a few people actually voiced dislike for the cast. Gamera 2's roster especially got in the crosshairs. I also think it's fair to say to most fans, many of the human cast weren't especially memorable besides Asagi; especially given pretty much none of them sans Asagi contributed to the finales of the 1st movie.

[tbeasley]

When it comes to bad takes I usually think this and move on -

[Kaltes-Herzeleid]

^
Same. Love that clip.

[Major sssspielberg!]

https://youtu.be/1A2MT3rnxBY
When people start talking about Bagan coming back like it's a real possibility

[JAGzilla]

^ I dunno.... half the stuff that seems to be happening in Singular Point was laughable pipe dream material a few months ago, but now, suddenly, it's reality. We're in a new age. The boring, lazy, conservative Toho we've known for the last few decades seems to be livening up and taking chances again. I don't want to say "anything is possible", but it may be that fewer things are impossible these days.

[Gigantis]

It's not like scrapped monsters haven't come back before either (Megalon came back literally a year after he was scrapped from Godzilla vs. Gigan) but.. even then, Bagan is still super unlikely considering how many times he got the boot, even into the modern with the Polygon trilogies prequal novels. It's clear Toho doesn't want anything to do with him.

[godjacob]

Honestly I just hope we get a new Kaiju among the returning ones in Singular Point. We haven't had a Toho original Kaiju since "Monster X" in 2004 (And there is a reason his name is in brackets). Legendary has provided at least one new one in each film in the MonsterVerse so seeing a new Toho original would be cool.

[Spuro]

Honestly I just hope we get a new Kaiju among the returning ones in Singular Point. We haven't had a Toho original Kaiju since "Monster X" in 2004 (And there is a reason his name is in brackets).

The Servum from the anime trilogy?

[godjacob]

Honestly I just hope we get a new Kaiju among the returning ones in Singular Point. We haven't had a Toho original Kaiju since "Monster X" in 2004 (And there is a reason his name is in brackets).

The Servum from the anime trilogy?

That's as much of a Kaiju as the Heisei Godzilla lice are.

[NSZ]

Honestly I just hope we get a new Kaiju among the returning ones in Singular Point. We haven't had a Toho original Kaiju since "Monster X" in 2004 (And there is a reason his name is in brackets).

The Servum from the anime trilogy?

I'll clarify/one up the complaint: We haven't had a Toho original kaiju that's not directly connected to a preexisting one since Titanosaurus.

[Spuro]

Honestly I just hope we get a new Kaiju among the returning ones in Singular Point. We haven't had a Toho original Kaiju since "Monster X" in 2004 (And there is a reason his name is in brackets).

The Servum from the anime trilogy?

I'll clarify/one up the complaint: We haven't had a Toho original kaiju that's not directly connected to a preexisting one since Titanosaurus.

Dagarah? His movie sucked, but still...

[NSZ]

The Servum from the anime trilogy?

I'll clarify/one up the complaint: We haven't had a Toho original kaiju that's not directly connected to a preexisting one since Titanosaurus.

Dagarah? His movie sucked, but still...

I was referring to the Godzilla series proper, but I suppose from a franchise perspective that's correct. Man, the RoM trilogy just did not stick with me beyond the first one...

[godjacob]

Rebirth of Mothra series is also guilty of reusing monster ideas. They have 3 films and use a Ghidorah twice as the villain in them.

A new fresh monster can only help things on Toho's side IMO.

[Desghidorah]

I do have a fondness for Bagan, but not because he's the "super awesome Omega Level Uber Ultimate monster!!!!!!", but more because I did a lot of reading on the monster's storied history across the Heisei saga. The sheer number of times it was proposed to be used or got within spitting distance of being in a film, and how it was Tanaka who both originally came up with the monster and was it's biggest supporter. In a way, it kinda comes off as Tomoyuki Tanaka's personal beast, and the man rightfully deserves a lot of the praise for how the series survived and thrived. Guess I find that endearing as a creator myself. And as a plus, should Bagan ever return, I think it serves a neat role most other Godzilla series kaiju lack. Magic or mysticism is a feature that's been underlying the franchise for a long, long time, but very few potential enemies for Godzilla actually draw from or embody it. Most are either mechanical creations, natural beasts, or space monsters. Really the only magical foes Godzilla has ever had are really just Mothra and Battra, unless one counts GMK in which everyone was supernatural to some degree or another.